Wondering if anyone knows of any machines where the rules may change on the fly, either randomly or through an action by another player?
I was thinking of the Card Game Fluxx, and how the victory conditions may change, and how static the rules in Pinball tend to be, even for non-linear pinball rules, it is still 'do this and this to light this'. Any games where that might be random or maybe another player could somehow affect it?
Would that be any fun to actually play? or just a bad idea.. lol.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:POTC has different rules depending on the player you select. Not exactly what you’re asking though - you are also thinking about “shot requirements” I think. Rules change on the fly all the time as far as scoring,
Multipliers, etc
Yeah, specifcally thinking of ways that the rules might be random at start up or_ such that a different player could affect the rules of the first.
i.e, as you say, multipliers, but perhaps as a player, you need to figue out on the fly, where your multiplier shots are and adapt with each game.
The problem with variable rules is it in't the easiest thing to come up with really good solid rule set, so if you have it I don;t know how much you want to muck it up.
Game like GOT & SW give diff'rent abilities to a player depending on which house/character they choose (and can be random draw in GOT), but they are always the same.
Some thing like Pool Sharks you can play either 8 or 9 ball which affects how you progress in the game, but it's really only how the drop targets work to collect pool balls
I think the easiest way to get real variety in an existing game would be to use different density balls. Have you ever gotten the "Powerball" in Twilight Zone? If you mixed balls of a few different density's you would get a game where every ball shot differently... Could be fun... or maddening.
Not sure if it counts, but a lot of Gottlieb games have an “auto skill” feature. According to Jon Norris, the game can actually sense the apparent level of skill each player possesses based on certain metrics like shot accuracy, “double flipping,” and whether the player is trapping the ball frequently.
It then extends or shortens timers in certain modes and adjusts other rules to equalize things between players as a game is played. That’s how it’s supposed to work, at least.
I’ve experimented with the feature a bit in my Super Mario Bros and Lights Camera Action, but I haven’t really noticed much of a difference.
Quoted from mbaumle:Not sure if it counts, but a lot of Gottlieb games have an “auto skill” feature. According to Jon Norris, the game can actually sense the apparent level of skill each player possesses based on certain metrics like shot accuracy, “double flipping,” and whether the player is trapping the ball frequently.
It then extends or shortens timers in certain modes and adjusts other rules to equalize things between players as a game is played. That’s how it’s supposed to work, at least.
I’ve experimented with the feature a bit in my Super Mario Bros and Lights Camera Action, but I haven’t really noticed much of a difference.
That's really interesting.. like a handicap. Crazy, but could be super frustrating.. it's amazing sometimes how much random flipping can accumulate in points sometimes 
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I think the easiest way to get real variety in an existing game would be to use different density balls. Have you ever gotten the "Powerball" in Twilight Zone? If you mixed balls of a few different density's you would get a game where every ball shot differently... Could be fun... or maddening.
I have for sure.. it is interesting (and I tend to hate it lol), but I was mostly curious about the code options where part of the game might be that the player needs to explore the PF shots, and learn what everything does. You know that there is a bonus X and Extra ball and mode start, but maybe need to try different things, such as shooting a different bank down, or completing a set of targets / rollovers.. could be frustrating, but different strategy. If you tied it together with each player, it would add a lot of incentive for everyone to be watching .
If I recall correctly 90's Data East games compensated "bad players" by giving them a "mercy" lit multiball on their 3rd ball. I believe the idea was that the player was so bad it didn't matter if they got multiball and played longer... they were still having a short game and wouldn't feel like they didn't get their money's worth.
Quoted from TheLaw:The problem with variable rules is it in't the easiest thing to come up with really good solid rule set, so if you have it I don;t know how much you want to muck it up.
Game like GOT & SW give diff'rent abilities to a player depending on which house/character they choose (and can be random draw in GOT), but they are always the same.
Some thing like Pool Sharks you can play either 8 or 9 ball which affects how you progress in the game, but it's really only how the drop targets work to collect pool balls
Yeah, the JJPs are crazy for that. So many possibilities to explore, and a great way to add lengevity to the game.
Agree about difficulty with solid rule sets. I know people who buy games specifically based on who is coding it, knowing that they will complete the rules and it will be deep.
Would def need to be tied into the PF design.. was just a thought.
Quoted from tiesmasc:If I recall correctly 90's Data East games compensated "bad players" by giving them a "mercy" lit multiball on their 3rd ball. I believe the idea was that the player was so bad it didn't matter if they got multiball and played longer... they were still having a short game and wouldn't feel like they didn't get their money's worth.
It gives it to every player who hasn't already started a multiball. ChadH's code updates have fixed this in Star Wars and I think Jurrasic Park (maybe Baywatch and Hook also). I wish he'd fix it in Lethal Weapon 3.
Quite a few EM's work like this. Little Joe comes to mind. The rules on the PF change constantly as your dice values change, throughout the ball.
In a multiplayer game, the last state the game was left in is rather randomly set for the next player that is up.
The questions also reminds me of stealing locks in games like Grand Lizard and Diner.
Rules on the PF change with every ball on the solid state version of Joker Poker.
Quoted from snyper2099:Little Joe comes to mind. The rules on the PF change constantly as your dice values change, throughout the ball.
I played the one that was at Pincinnati this year. Really unique game! I quite enjoyed it, actually.
Quoted from mbaumle:I played the one that was at Pincinnati this year. Really unique game! I quite enjoyed it, actually.
I had a few people thank me for bringing it. It's certainly an odd game you don't often see.
Quoted from snyper2099:I had a few people thank me for bringing it. It's certainly an odd game you don't often see.
I didn't realize it was yours! Add me to the list of thankers. I also really appreciated your signage showing players how to really understand the rules. I think I spent more time on Little Joe and understanding the minutia of it than any other game there that weekend.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/variable-rules?hl=cabuford and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Surrey, BC
Ann Arbor, MI