Hi folks. Pinball is awesome and EM's are awesome... but my quest to modernize an old 1971 Playball machine may not be so awesome. Am I biting off more than I can chew?

Pinball has lured me back into the world of electronics and tinkering after many years. I recently acquired an Arduino and now a Power Master 16 solenoid controller from Pinballcontrollers.com. My goal is to polish my chops by converting an old EM to new tech. No more flaky steppers. No more motor timings. No more mysteriously stuck solenoids. I want to go modern but keep the old look and play intact.

However, I'm already facing some daunting decisions. The BIG ONE is whether to convert everything from AC to DC power. The Power Master 16 only works with DC. I'd have to rewire the entire table and create a new schematic. Which isn't out of the question. It would make "original play" as well as new modes possible. Neat lighting FX too. But yeah. Big job.

Alternatively, if I kept the existing AC-based layout, my Arduino could switch the existing layout of relays and keep most of the schematic and wiring and power transformer as-is... a hybrid if you will. But that would involve reverse-engineering the motor and steppers with new relay banks so that they work identically. Limited flexibility for new modes of play as well.

Anyway, just thinking out loud. I've seen several custom pinball projects recently but haven't seen many (any?) people attempting to "resto-mod" an old EM machine like this. *gasp* is this heresy?!?

Well, the thing is, it's not "perfectly good". I'd keep it as-is if it were in pristine condition, but this one needs touching up, backglass is peeling a bit (need to seal it), a few dings, chips, and yes, it has some mechanical/electrical issues too. It's never going to be a museum piece.

It's not unlike resto-modding a 1960's-era 'Vette with air conditioning, 5-speed transmission, etc. Some people are aghast at the very idea... but you know... when you live in Texas it's really nice to "have it all" driving down the street, getting good mileage, power, and cool air while retaining that original look.

If the gameplay remains the same but reliability and tweakability increase, what's the hangup? Frankly it seems like it would be an interesting learning experience and bring new life to an old game. Also think of the fun things you could do behind the scenes... "Playball just rolled 10k" Tweets.

Anyway, I just wanted to find out if anyone else has thought about or attempted to update/rescue an EM from the old days. Last I checked, no one is making these parts anymore. What then? It could be that modernization may prove to be the only way to save these machines as the years progress.

HA! Sure, if I have a decade to spare. That's actually a pretty cool idea. The music could be handled by one of those vintage "band in a box" calliope machines and moving images with a film projector in the backbox. It would be the size of a minivan and cost $250,000. But it would be spectacular to behold (and maintain... yikes). Also a real steam whistle in place of the free game solenoid.

Hmmm... now I'm kinda wanting to do this. :p

Heh... not for this game. Original mode would keep the existing chimes, scoring bell, score reels, etc.

But if switched into new mode? Hmmm. No sub. No LED's. Original lamps. But maybe 1971-era tape loops and announcements from old baseball games of the era. Keep it consistent with what the designers would have done at the time if they had the same tools.

No improvement in reliability was gained?

Early SS technology is intimidating. I'd rather not go back and diagnose it. It's like trying to adjust the tolerance on a flaky 5 1/4" floppy drive rather than bypassing the darn thing, sticking the data on a SD card, and calling it done. Same with old arcade games. Oftentimes, it's MAME or bust. It's just too easy nowadays.

Hence my interest in EM-conversion. It's not very fun to diagnose an entire schematic for a stuck solenoid. If EM's were living things, an ingrown toenail might cause blindness. "Anything" can cause "anything" to do "anything"...

"Hey Doc, my eyes ache."

"Drink this orange juice. Feel better?"

"Nope."

"Let me tap your knee. Better?"

"Nope."

"Stand in the sun for two hours. Better?"

"Nope. OUCH! What the heck?"

"Getting punched in the gut sometimes helps. Better?"

"Yeah, sort of. I can see out of my left eye, but now I can't stop sneezing."

All good points sir & well stated. Essentially at the heart of it is the educational factor. Coding, timing, getting those dormant neurons from electrical theory class to fire up again. In the larger scheme of things I want to build a custom pinball machine from scratch (likely via PROC) and thought this project would serve as a suitable skillset ramp-up.

Certainly if it were a Humpty Dumpty or Centigrade 37 I wouldn't change the fundamental architecture & would likely send it into the hands of a collector. But Playball isn't particularly rare nor desirable. Most importantly, it's a fun project. Good for staying motivated. After all, that's what brought pinball into existence in the first place... learning, experimenting, and having fun.

BTW, have you shared the details of your project here or on Youtube? I'd be interested to see it.

Lots of great ideas here. Even the naysayers words haven't been wasted upon me... I see where everyone is coming from. I suppose there are other ways to accomplish my educational goals. It would be twice the work to undo then redo an existing machine and even then it wouldn't necessarily reflect the amount of work put into it once complete. Perhaps I can do better.

Virtual pinball (and Farsight's Pinball Arcade) is a great way to preserve the art and gameplay but it is not for me. I need to have a physical ball flying around in there. Pinball is the Rosetta Stone of coin-op entertainment. It bridges the evolutionary link between physical games and electronic ones. I wish today's children were more easily able to interact with pinball machines before the iPad claimed all of their attention. It's enlightening to see how the physical & virtual worlds overlap.

King of Diamonds is really nice. Now that's a true win-win proposition. I didn't know there was a market for new tech/classic-style machines. I do like being able to start fresh with DC power and modern parts from the get-go.

Hmmmm... giving it some more thought...

Lots of good feedback here from all perspectives. I'm nowhere near ready to do anything permanent to the machine. Just planning strategy at this point. Overall it seems not many people undertake custom EM-to-SS conversions (with the exception of Tilt Warning). Some of those graphics look really out there.

Might have to go with an Arduino Mega in that case? It has 54 digital i/o pins vs. the Uno's 12 or so. Which optos would you have preferred to use? I've heard some pinball experimenters mention optos were too slow... though I'm not certain as to why/what their specific implementation was.

I suppose it would be possible to record the ker-chunks and clicks and ratcheting noises and play them back digitally. Obsessive but kinda cool.

My custom pin will be re-themed as:

THE WARSHIN' MACHINE - 1967

The clangy-est, ker-chunkin', buzzin', whirrin', ratchetyest pinball machine you've ever played. Each coin starts the "spin cycle" with a dedicated off-axis dent, giving it that wha-THUMP wha-THUMP sound like a dozen wet towels inside. Will also kick out random grass clippings and kerosene fumes during "Lawnmower mode". Complete with Jacob's Ladder replay indicator.

$9000 NIB.

I'm hoping to cash in on rich collectors hankering for childhood memories which the other machines left out.

Meh. Decided against doing a conversion to modern electronics. Better to start from scratch for this kind of thing (DC power, DC solenoid controls, etc). Also the elementary layout of the table wouldn't afford much in the way of custom modes. Gonna fix as-is.

I like the King of Diamonds concept. That looks like a true "best of both worlds" concept.

I can see how both points of view are valid here. Even though the machine isn't currently working, it's much closer to being operational in its current state than by gutting everything and starting over from scratch. Seems almost not worth it... almost.

I think a hybridized EM would be awesome to behold. Especially if the new layout was designed to do clever things like trigger old switch stacks and motors just for the sound FX.

At present my plan is to repair it and take it to a few pinball shows. I'll see how I like living with it while I polish my pinball/electronics skills on other projects. Then, IF the inclination still nags, I'll document a full conversion in the spirit of how the original designers might have attempted it.

I am pretty darn proud of the ball count stepper after I rebuilt it. Works like new again. Good as new. But it does take time to iron out all the little things which can go awry... not always fun.

Nice. I was thinking Arduino Mega but that one has twice the pinnage.

I'm baaack!

Seven month update: After resurrecting four EM machines from the dead and winning a best runner up title for one of them at the 2014 Texas Pinball Festival... I'm done with electromechanical logic circuits. I admire their simplicity, but hate the clickety flaky resetting crap. No diagnostics. No tweakable settings. No watchdog timers. Just a pile of hard-wired headaches waiting to happen.

When I first wrote this thread, I wanted to bypass the "history lesson" stuff but I'm glad you guys talked me into doing the work. For the past seven months, I've done nothing BUT that. Wake up, work, fix pinball, sleep. I've rebuilt steppers, relays, and fixed motor switches. I've meticulously gone through every centimeter of playfield, backbox, and cabinet construction. I've participated in a cab repaint, custom backglass creation, and vacu-formed new parts. I've replaced every single lamp socket in one of my 60's machines and am halfway through a second. Also planning to build a likeness of a classic from scratch with updated features before moving on to a full custom machine.

With so much still ahead, I'm learning that time is a limited resource and frankly there isn't enough to move toward the past AND future at the same time. Now, I'm flat-out AMAZED with the work of Henk de Jager who created EM's from scratch (Big City Zoo & Merlin's Magic)... but there's NO WAY I'd be able to do that kind of thing unless I was retired and single with very few other obligations. Not sure I'd want to, anyway. I'm not from that generation. I'm a GenX arcade kid & computer geek with a day job and frankly I've learned that a good bit of that EM logic can be greatly improved upon without sacrificing any of the gameplay.

Thus, I'm going to resume my original plan and convert one of my 60's EM's to solid state (Flipper Fair). Goodbye motor. Goodbye reset bar. Goodbye relays. Goodbye steppers. Goodbye flaky interlocks. Sure, I could fix all that stuff... but I just don't want to. I'm done with EM logic. Not interested anymore.

Heresy? Yeah. I guess so. But after I'm done I'm hoping this machine will run for a very long time with a fraction of the usual maintenance. My philosophy is to remake them like the original creators would, had they the technology at the time. For example my winning machine at TPF was loaded with modern LED's... but no one could tell. Proof that when properly combined, the best of old + new tech can bring exciting new possibilities.

Time to give it a go...

Here's the thing... it takes a bit more than "routine maintenance" after those 53 years of stagnation and temperature/humidity changes. For one, every lamp socket had to be replaced head to toe. Most were corroded beyond saving. Some leave them as-is or repair them with cleaning sticks or whatever, but that usually results in flaky/dim lamp performance. Not acceptable to me. Not even one.

Secondly, the original backglass had peeled and faded rather significantly...

flipper 640 broken.jpg

I have painstakingly created a replacement with what was left. Colors corrected, missing areas cloned, screen print alignment errors fixed (making it "better than new"), and every pixel of it converted to solid RGB values. Furthermore, you will notice the omission of the high score "grease pencil area". It had been razor bladed out by the original operator (who had taped his business card in the window). After restoring the image, I thought it looked better without one... so that's how I did it. (yes, I had already replaced the two lamp sockets behind it... oh well).

Flipper 640.jpg

Thirdly, the original plastic rainbow was shot. It had partially melted (as many have) and some of the paint had been cleaned off as well. I had to completely reproduce the part using direct to ink on plastic and vacuum forming which turned out incredibly well but was enormously time consuming.

Fourth, our own local "Evan the Pinsmith" and I have fixed this machine on three separate occasions. Still, it's a bit buggy. Sometimes the ball count will increase to 6. Sometimes rolling over the lanes won't award a free ball. Sometimes (albeit rarely) the game will perform a reset. Sometimes it will click up 60 points instead of 50. Fixable? Sure. I could re-rivet the stepper, replace some of the flakier switch blades and contacts, swap or replace the interlock plates, go through the wiring harness again checking solder joints/shorts... yada yada. But who will in the future? I'm already sick of this.

EM logic drifts. That's the main problem with these old machines. With use, stuff changes or breaks. Maybe you'll get a free ball? Maybe a few extra points? Maybe you won't notice? Who knows. Especially with really old pins like this one. Many of the solder joints fell apart in my hands. Fix fix fix.

Point is... seems like after replacing nearly everything... bumpers... pop caps... flippers... rainbow... legs... glass... sockets... lockdown caps... springs... is it "original" any more? The only stuff left is the EM logic, which is the worst of it.

Fortunately, the game is so simple compared to modern machines that it should be comparatively easy (note: "comparatively") to give it a brain transplant. After which, I can imagine a number of small tweaks which would improve gameplay. For example, after clearing the top lanes (and losing a ball), either the 1-3 or 2-4 lanes light up again. Why not a random pair each time? I believe the original designers would have done this, had they not been limited by the alternating relay.

No worries... as mentioned before I am both a tweaker and a designer and strive for goals "in the spirit" of the original makers. I wouldn't try this if I believed it wouldn't be an improvement all things considered. Frankly, if someone offered a conversion kit for my other project machine, I'd have already bought one.

What are the main differences you noticed? Nothing was an improvement whatsoever?

I love the old games too. In fact, more than the new modern ones.

I'm here because this is an EM machine and the goal is to preserve the best parts of its character while giving it a bump in overall reliability.

Will it be an EM after the conversion? Kind of. The goal is to do it in a way that you wouldn't even notice. Original reels would still be in place. Might keep the ball count stepper too just for the clack-clack noisemaking aspect of it.

Think of it like a vintage cash register with a calculator inside. You'd still get the "ratchety-click-ker-chunk" tactile input, but internally it would do the math instantly and flawlessly. Would that be such a bad thing?

But... it's not "perfectly good". It could be, or almost be, but it's my machine and I intend to keep it for life. I believe it will be a better long term companion with an improvement to its mechanical logic. If I'm right, I'll do more like this. If I'm wrong, I'll stop here.

Anyway, if everyone in this forum is against this sort of thing, then I guess it can be moved to the restoration thread. But I think it will always be at least part EM regardless.

The mentality is this: I already owned three of them. After restoring all four, I know where most of my time went, and continues to go. Easy decision.

Regarding the junky sockets... many "fixed" machines I see aren't operating at 100% brightness. Perhaps we have different standards.

I'm glad you brought this up, because I think a lot of EM aficionados believe it's an "all or nothing" thing. It's not. It's a sliding scale. I've seen more than a few EM's lit up with colored LED lights by die-hard-wouldn't-change-a-thing fans which in my opinion looked totally inappropriate for the era.

I see it more like this: Would a human with a machine heart be less human? What you're talking about is more like a robot FACE. That's not what I intend to do here.

Fair enough. I confess I am a fan of resto-mods IF they are done with care. A 60's 'Vette with air conditioning in the Texas heat? Yeah... I'll take that option.

No need to imply divisiveness upon my behalf. I don't enjoy conflict. I'm here for ideas and discussion with other owners.

I do want to try something new, but it's not the only motivation present. No excuses required.

I guess you and I just don't place the same priority on legacy logic circuits. Though we do agree on the fun and beauty of the old machines.

Come now... "simpletons"? I'm an EM owner too yanno. I find most of us to be incredibly dedicated and hardworking folks who keep the hobby alive. I realize what I am proposing is scary and could fail. But... I've cut my teeth on restoring four of 'em so far and feel that it could be a worthwhile leap. That's all.

Well said... but what if it didn't come as a factory option... and what if it didn't completely change the nature of the game by adding it?

Using your earlier car analogy, what if a 60's Vette was fitted with a hybrid engine which was carefully engineered to deliver the same power, the same throttle response, the same vibration and engine roar. Basically to the point of where you wouldn't be able to tell the difference without looking under the hood. Your "experience" of the machine would be exactly the same.

Would that be a success? I guess I fall on the side of saying yes. *shrug* that's really the only difference. Preserving the "spirit" of the machine is just as important to me.

Sheeit... should have Googled it first. Can't learn everything watching Mecum auctions!

OK... point taken. Change on this scale = not acceptable to most here. Just hoping it would be interesting to some folks and serve as an option for "unrecoverable" units if the opportunity ever came up.

Regarding cars I have noticed that most resto-mods cost $$$ to do, yet rarely return as much on the market as an unmodified original. Nevertheless, I've seen some that I'd prefer to own over the originals that were done right. Truly "best of both" propositions. That's what I'm aiming for.

In the future, if my hybrid ever wins a best of show award after lots of EM guys enjoyed looking at it and playing it... I wonder if they would even want to know?

OK... I guess it's time to relocate since this is heading into a new area of development. Appreciate everyone's input... pro and con.

Thanks man!

(request sent to Pinside help to move thread to documented restorations... I don't seem to have permission to do this myself)

I dunno... a ton of the VirtuaPin builders in their 20's are installing solenoids underneath the LED for added kick and feedback. Clearly it's not "just a video game" after all. Hence, I believe there's a happy medium to be found somewhere in here and we're all hunting for that elusive overall "feel" which just sounds and plays good.

I'm sticking with the lessons KOD paved... less is more, revise carefully, stick with original designs when they make sense. Going to test my theory with a side project as well: A proven EM layout from scratch with SS architecture. But that's later...

Update: I'm keeping it original. No conversion to SS. What was I thinking?!?

After restoring a *fifth* EM, I guess a relay clicked in my cerebellum. It said, "Keep it original. Don't reinvent the wheel. Build upon the past... but don't destroy it. Start over and make something new."

Case closed. I'm getting good at this restoration business. Might as well stick with it.

Main lesson learned? Be patient and take breaks. EM restoration is a meticulous thing... very Zen-like. In the beginning I just wanted things to hurry up and work, to my frequent frustration. Nowadays I see the restoration and troubleshooting process itself as the goal. Ommmmm... pinball meditation.

New project: Build a Gottlieb wedgehead from scratch using an old cabinet and new art and tech. Nothing destroyed in the process and still plenty of opportunities to experiment and learn cool new things along the way. I'm going to use the same basic layout as most classic EM's... just with SS stuff under the hood.

Win win.

Sort of, but not nearly to that extent. I can use existing control boards and keep the format of the original wedgehead slope. Will also use repro components from the same vintage for similar gameplay feel. Basically do what I wanted to do with Flipper Fair without hacking it up in the process.

I'll post a link when things get going...

Hahaha awwww man. You just HAD to, didn't ya?

Welcome to my very first Pinside thread. Only seven years ago when I knew absolutely nothing about schematics, fixing steppers, motor timings, tools, bushings, wipers, spring tensioning, switch biasing, rebuilding, clear coat, hahahaha wow. A total newbie.

When I wrote this post, I was living in my Dallas condominium with a 1971 Gottlieb Playball wedge in my bedroom. I felt totally lost staring into that labyrinth of dusty wires and metal parts. Was thinking I could simply detour around the "old stuff in there" and not "waste my time" having to "backtrack" with "obsolete stuff" when I could instead put my time in "modern tech" and develop a second career in Arduino programming and robotics using pinball as my experimental platform.

See? It wasn't total insanity/laziness...

In hindsight, I guess things sort of played out that way. I did develop a second career... but not by re-inventing the wheel! Turns out the more I learned about EM technology the more interesting it became to me. And thus devoted every spare minute of my life from this point onward.

Tens of thousands of hours Googling, experimenting, testing, watching videos, visiting collections, filling my spreadsheet, etc. Luckily I was surrounded by other enthusiastic people with overlapping skill sets at the Dallas Makerspace, which helped all of us rapidly boost our skill sets. I also had a natural aptitude for mechanical/electrical logic which I hadn't explored until then... and it took off like a rocket.

Serendipity, natural aptitude, a love of learning, and grit. When it all comes together, it's a beautiful thing.

As far as the Arduino-ification of an old EM... I may still take on this challenge someday. I'd like to build one of my own from scratch which will use some EM technology mixed with modern computing. So, hey, I guess the idea is still swirling around in there somewhere. But not with this machine... it's one of my original three from childhood.

Learning the "old ways" taught me things about pinball I might not have learned or appreciated otherwise. It took a lot of time, but was well-spent.

Is this the current link? https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub/bjmclrn/pinball-arduino-conversion-another-one-7c3d52

Thanks for sharing! Giving me some inspiration to step up my projects!

Cobrapin! Truly exciting concept. Appears to be ultra efficient and yet very capable... and affordable!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1862357036/cobrapin-pinball-controller