Probably just that the price is too close to getting a brand new repro, and it has issues (been repaired, but not perfect repairs).

If the repairs were already locked in with a nice new clearcoat (and it looked great), it would probably sell immediately for more money. The way it is, it looks more like a "project" that needs to be completed. LOL - since it will STILL be a project, even if it's ready to install.

I would agree - if I was going to have to go through all the work of a playfield swap I would prefer just paying extra for perfect one. Putting yours into a machine would be a lot of work to still have a machine with a less than perfect playfield. To me more realistic would be $450 shipped. It still might take a while to sell but at that point someone might see it as a logical choice.

Something else to consider - January is the worst month of the year to sell bigger ticket items. Most working class people are broke in January between Christmas, higher heating cost, and having money to pay their taxes if they have money to pay. And you are too early by over a month to catch people with cash refunds coming in.

If you look at machines for sale right now - even at good prices most are not selling.

My thoughts are.. If you are going to go through the trouble and work of populating a play-field you should go new. Its not a quick task to do Right and most people don't want to do it again. If the play-field wasn't avail in reproduction then it would be long past sold.

JJ

My customers prefer original playfields restored ... but on 500 bucks .. what should it cost after several hours work brushing it and several layers of coat and a professional finish ?!
Good point on your playfiled : It is not that bad and a good basic for a renovation. But with shipping and taxes for us european pinheads not really intresting.

Lower the price to 350 and the US boys will buy it ...

Another thing that is likely affecting a sale is the imminent remake of MB.

The real problem is that MB is a top dollar game.

Anyone buying one is clearly a wealthy individual.

So if you can buy a brand new, clearcoated playfield for ~$800 at any show that Mirco is set up at, then you are not saving any money buying a $500 used playfield that needs touchup work and then needs a clearcoat.

I doubt this for a few reasons. People are expecting AFM next so we will see those in 2 years and if MB after that 4 years. Longer than most people stay in the hobby. Also, people who are buying a playfield already have a game. People who own an original MB are not waiting for MBr.

I think it is just MB was run by IPB before Mirco so many people who wanted repros have had a chance to get the repro or the restored pulls.

It might, really depends on the collector.

Newbies always see the repros and like the super clear inserts, rather than the milky Diamondplate coated inserts that collectors would expect.

All I know is whatever choice I make, it will be the wrong one when the perspective buyer comes to look at the game.

I would prefer a properly restored original to a repro if done by a known person like Kruzman. I think the wood has gotten softer and prone to dimpling from ball drops. And knowing who did your clear coat job could be big.

Not true.

Same wood, from the same factory, has been used for the last 60 years.

A few Mirco playfields were made from Baltic Birch which is just slightly softer than Maple.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

Wood has changed a lot over the past 40 years or so. New growth lumber is typically much softer than good old wood from years ago. With that said I don't know how much wood has changed over the past 20 years.

Just because something comes out of the same plant it doesn't ensure it is the same quality. We have been using the same supplier for packing tape for over 20 years and their new tape @ $1 a roll isn't as good as the tape I was buying 15 years ago for under 30 cents a roll.

Repro or original is really just personal choice. OP asked a question and has basically gotten several answers (all similar). Bottom line in a free market economy is seller can set asking price but buyers will set actual price. If something is priced low it will likely sell quickly but something overpriced could sit for years without selling. A seller can "ask" what ever they want to for an item but free market will determine if their price is in line.

To OP - If you want it sold quickly reduce your price and it should sell. If you are not in a rush just wait and at some point someone will likely make you an offer on it. But at higher price people will not be busting your doors down to buy it from you.

In the lumber industry, old-growth forest are simply forests that have been untouched for the last 150 years.

Most species of Maple trees do not even live 100 years.

New-growth lumber is generally SPF (Spruce Pine Fir) - super fast growing trees that can be quickly be chopped up into particle board in less than 20 years.

So don't be fooled when you see a Weyerhaeuser commercial bragging that they are planting 100 million seedlings this year. They are only planting SPF so they can do a quick turnaround harvest.

Cecil Adams.

I work with lumber just about everyday and I know lumber has changed a lot in recent years. It isn't as hard or strong as it was 30 years ago and new building codes have increased the size requirements on joist, beams, etc. accordingly.

Some products have improved over the years but wood isn't one of them. As far as plywood on playfields - I don't know when (or even if) that changed but I do know for a fact that lumber today is much different than lumber from 40 years ago. And lumber from 40 years ago is different than lumber 80 years ago.

It isn't as much about new plantings as it is about number of trees in a forest. When trees are closer together they grow slower & stronger. So as timber is harvested with more space between trees - trees grow faster and lumber is not as strong or hard.

As far as playfield quality on newer machines take a look at modern machines with a few thousand plays on them and look at how bad playfields are. I know operators that are changing out playfields with under 10,000 plays on a machine. Then look at old EM machines with 30,000 or more plays and most playfields are still pretty nice if a machine was somewhat taken care of.

Bottom line - SADLY - things just are not made like they once were. Now if we are talking about something made in the 1990's compared to something made today I don't know how much things have changed. But if you look at something made in the 1970's compared to the same item made today the newer item doesn't even come close in quality.

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck...

The Janka Test says that Maple is the same 1450 hardness today as it was in 1910.

Maple is just not one of those woods that are planted by the billions on previously clear cut forest lands.

Of course, because modern machines have not been played enough to be pounded flat yet.

Once you get a zillion plays, the playfield looks relatively flat.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check

B/W had a couple of pallets of these when they shut down the pin division that were supposed to go in the wheelie bin but they didn't.
Back then they were going for 50 bucks a pop.
I paid 250 bucks for my NOS one about 7 years ago so there are a bunch of NOS ones out there floating around as well as the repros.
Gene had them for 600 bucks at the last show he was at.
You are too close to new for it to sell but you might find a Barnumite that will pop for it.

Make like a tree and get out of here.

image_(resized).jpg

That's about as smart as a screen door on a battleship.

What are you basing that on - a wish? The same declaration was being made over a year ago. The fact is we are no closer to that happening now than we were back then.

It was prematurely reported over a year ago by one of the distributors that AFM and MB are the next remakes. It has also been said that the designs are far along and should not take nearly as long as MM to get the games to production.

That's called rumor & speculation - a far cry from "imminent".

A distributor put it on a sales flyer so I am willing to go with it.

I think the difference in wear also has a lot to do with differences in gameplay between older EM machines and today's much faster playing pins.

Exactly.

All the old, really worn EMs were tossed in the dumpster back in the 70s - when you could not get $25 for them.

Generally the EMs we find today are the better condition specimens that have been in somebody's basement for the last 40 years.

If EMs all had 6 ball multiball, drops, canons, ramps, magnasave, and all the other stuff that quickly eats a playfield; there would be a lot less of them around today.

All you need to do is talk to a few operators that have machines on route and you will quickly find both wood quality & finishes from the factory don't hold up like they did even 20 years ago. Believe what you want - say what you want - but bottom line is "new stuff" isn't built like back in the day.

I don't buy newer machines mostly because of build quality. I think Williams System 11's were about the last really well built machines (maybe even a few of the earlier DMD machine but most stuff after the mid 1990's just isn't built as well).

Original posted is getting a lot of free bumps here and that is likely a good thing.

You guys that keep wanting to believe new is better - that is great. But I'll take a good old playfield in decent shape over a remake any day of the week.

In life I have learned there are a lot of people who love to think they are always right. Over the years I have learned the best way to get the right answer is to talk to someone who knows not the local barber or bartender who knows a little about everything but truly knows nothing.

Anyone building furniture or in construction will tell you wood has changed over the years. Salesmen will tell you it hasn't - do your own homework and figure out who is right!

Dan, I would give you $200 and save you the shipping cost. I would use it as wall art.

Used playfields don't have much value. Cost to restore is more than buying a repo. That is before you pay for the playfield. This is why you have 0 offers. Seems like most used pfs become wall hangers

For what it's worth, I sold one in similar condition on here a little over a year ago for $500. It sold in less than a day and I had a back up buyer as well. Both of them wanted an original as opposed to a repro. I think it's timing....

Well, there you have it. It has to be true if you got it in writing on a sales flyer.

I have tested old, new and Russian plywood at the pistol range and the Russian plywood is the hardest followed by old and new came in last.
Oriented strand board is more structurally sound as far as load is concerned whereas conventional plywood will flex more when used diagonally or lengthwise on floor joist.
A lot of the chemicals used to manufacture plywood in the U.S. have been banned, marine plywood is nothing like it was 20 years ago.
Just the way it is, LL is being sued because of the formaldehyde used in Chinese plywood flooring.

THANKS! People just don't believe wood has changed and paint is the same way. New Playfields just plain are not as good as old playfields but "some people" think they are just because they are new & expensive. I couldn't believe it when I talked to the first operator who was telling me about how poorly playfields on machines are holding up these days. But after I heard the same story from several different people with new machines on location I had to start believing it.

Even if you look at post here & on RGP people often talk about "wear" on their new machines. A new machine - home use only - should last forever and yet after a few hundred plays they are starting to wear? I have had machines with over 50,000 plays on them with almost zero wear - so something is very different these days!

You two guys are arguing about two different things.

I run a cabinet shop, so I think I know a little bit about the subject.

Some woods, like longleaf pine, indeed are harder when they are "old growth" and are 200 to 500 years old. Slow growth gives tight rings, as in maybe 6 growth rings per inch.

Other woods don't live long enough to be considered old growth by the industry. Many trees grow fast and die early.

Do you know where we get most of our maple from? Maple trees get old and can't produce enough valuable sap anymore, so they are cut down and replaced with younger trees.

People love to hear that their maple cabinets were made with sustainably proeduced hardwood.

My point originally is plywood isn't the same as it was years ago - just like just about anything made today. I am 61 years old and have worked around lumber for close to 50 years and lumber just isn't the same as it was in the 1970's.

Yes - I understand Maple is different than Pine, but I also know plywood made today isn't as strong as plywood for the 1970's. Is it the lumber?, is it the glue?, is it the process?, is it wood isn't dried as long?, I really don't know. What I do know for sure - if you talk to anyone with machines on route they will tell you playfields being made today just don't last.

Originally I made a comment that some people prefer old playfields over reproduction because the wood was better and somehow we got into a debate about lumber. I really don't care but I am sure - from experience - new playfields just are not as good as older ones. What I don't know is when things changed or how much they have changed in the past say 20 years?

Paint has never been the same since they took the lead out of it. Lead Free Solder also SUCKS. But I do understand why lead was removed. But I have yet to find good lead free paint that last like paint made before the mid 1970's. Yet another debate I likely have started.

Lots of free bumps for the seller!