(Topic ID: 28807)

Upper flipper not working (Noob in over my head!?)

By epeabs

11 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by epeabs
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

Just when I was feeling good about "shopping out" my first machine, I have hit a roadblock and am feeling like I'm in over my head. I just rebuilt my upper flipper on my BK2K after it started being extremly "lazy" last week. It was working great after the rebuild kit was installed. Today I rebuilt the right lower flipper (I figured if one was going bad the others aren't far behind). While resoldering, I unknowingly switched the two wires going to the EOS switch. When I turned the machine on and tried the flippers, the right flippers didn't work. Once correcting my mistake (and replacing the fuse in F5), I tried the flippers again. This time the lower playfield right flipper worked great, but the upper playfield flipper (right) was only slightly "jumping". I happened to have a new coil so I swapped it out. Unfortunately, I read my wire labels incorrectly, and I wired the coil incorrectly (I switched the wires going to the outside lugs) (burned another F5 fuse). I have now replaced the fuse, turned the machine back on to test the flippers, and the upper flipper doesn't even "jump" the slightest bit. And it burned the fuse after trying the flipper only a few times. I am now stumped. I do believe I have the wiring correct. Did I burn something else out besides a fuse? I don't know where to turn. Please help

#2 11 years ago

Man I wish I could help more than just this guess

Not sure how BK2K works and if a contact on the lower flipper may be causing issues on the upper flipper.

Double check the diodes with a multimeter as maybe they fried as well. Also check the contacts at the flipper buttons and make sure they are making contact. My hunch is that the diode on the coil fried.

#3 11 years ago

Probably a stupid question, but what do I measure with my multimeter to determine if the diodes are cooked?

#4 11 years ago

If you wired the flipper coil backwards, the diodes are cooked. They can't be tested while in circuit. Snip them off and replace them.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#5 11 years ago

When you put in the new diode, make sure the banded end points in the same direction.

#6 11 years ago

You screwed it up about as bad as you could

Let me try to decipher what you did:

On the first go round, you switched the EOS wires...Well, that's not an accurate description. Wouldn't matter if you switched the two wires on the EOS...it's just a switch. What I 'think' you meant to say is that you switched ONE wire on the EOS with the wire on the other switch in the stack. That's not an EOS switch but a normally open switch (called the upper flipper switch) that sends power to the upper flipper. The EOS switch on the stack is normally closed.

Soooo....If you switched the wire on the EOS with the wire on the switch to the upper flipper what you did was take the 50V that normally goes through the flipper switch and put it on the EOS. Since the EOS is normally closed, it put 50V straight to ground with no load and popped your fuse.

Now, you fixed that and the upper flipper was only jumping. Which means it was now at least getting the 50V through the flipper switch to the upper flipper. If it was only jumping, then it was getting 50V only momentarily meaning your lower flipper switch is maladjusted. Either that or the EOS on the upper flipper is not adjusted normally closed and you're only getting the low power winding in play on the upper flipper. But you didn't mention that you mucked with the upper flipper at all until later, so my guess is you screwed up the adjustment on the lower flipper switch stack.

Then, you say you swapped coils on the upper but miswired it. You swapped the wires on the outer coil lugs. That means you put the ground on the banded end of the one diode and the 50V on the non banded end. Congratulations, you just created another dead short across both coil windings since the power was flowing through the diode instead of being blocked by them. That's why F5 popped again.

My guess is you still don't have it wired properly. Swapping the wires on the upper coil created a momentary high burst of current before the slo-blow fuse blew, so you could have very well cooked the diodes as Chris suggested. If they're shorted now internally, then you're going to blow F5 every time the lower flipper switch makes. But you say the fuse stays in tact for a few flips which is odd.

Now my head hurts. My suggestion:

Replace the upper flipper coil (hint....NEVER replace a coil in the future unless you test that it is bad. Coils themselves almost never go bad) with fresh diodes and wire it correctly.

Take a picture of the lower flipper switch stack and wiring and the upper flipper switch stack and wiring, post them here and get confirmation that everything's correct before you damage something else.

#7 11 years ago

I think that sounds pretty accurate. I will change out the coil, install new diodes, and rewire correctly. I will post pictures. Back to work tomorrow. I will post when I've had a chance to work through this. Thank you.

#8 11 years ago

+1 on taking pictures, lots of them.

Unless you do it all the time, it's hard to remember what goes where - even the simple stuff!

Remember: it's not the triumph, but the struggle...

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from Prmailers:

Remember: it's not the triumph, but the struggle...

very poetic, and so true.

#10 11 years ago

Well I delved back into this dilemma. I have gone back to the "original upper coil" just in case I screwed the "newer one" up with my f****** up wiring. I have installed new IN4003 diodes with the bands going in the same direction on the coil. I have rewired it according to my original tags and photos (the issue was not my labeling prior it was reading them incorrectly). I am a little confused as in reading the manual on page 48 (assembly notes #9) it says "Solid color blue wire connects to the banded end of each diode, mounted on the connector end of the Flipper Coil (item 9). Trace color wire connects to the unbanded end of the diode". Looking at my original photos of the "untouched by me" coils, they don't seem to be wired this way. I have not turned on the machine at this point as I am nervous to do so. I am hoping someone can look at my "before and after" photos to see if things look correct or not. The coil with the original wrapping is the upper playfield flipper prior to my involvement with it , the pictures with the masking tape wrapped coil is the lower playfield right flipper. I will post more pictures. Thanks again for the input.

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#11 11 years ago

More before pictures

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#12 11 years ago

Some after pictures.

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#13 11 years ago

Some more after.

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#14 11 years ago

The last pic is the best one....

You should have BLK-YEL on unbanded outside lug....That's the ground from the flipper button

You should have BLU-YEL on the banded outside lug....That's the 50V from the lower flipper switch

The solid blue wires are just jumper wires to the EOS and one should be on BLK-YEL outside lug and one on the Inside Lug.

So.....Your upper flipper is wired correctly by that last picture.

#15 11 years ago

You didn't post the bottom flipper but it should be:

BLU-YEL should be on the banded outside lug AND jumpered to the Normally open flipper switch on the stack. From the other side of that Normally open flipper switch is the BLU-YEL wire that goes up to the upper flipper.

BLU-VIO should be on the unbanded outside lug....That's the ground from the flipper button. It should have a wire also to the Normally Closed EOS switch. Other side of that EOS goes to the middle lug.

#16 11 years ago

Hi Robertmee, Thanks. The bottom flipper is the first batch of "after" pictures. Everything looks good to me except my "blue-yel" wire to the upper flipper is plain blue. I am thinking that is has been replaced at some point. I do know that the "plain blue" is wired in the same location I originally removed it from.

#17 11 years ago

I have confirmed that the "plain blue" wire is connected to the J2 pin 5 location in the upper playfield interconnect board (it is a replacement wire). I have confirmed all my wires. Now the upper playfield flipper won't "stay up" and seems lazy. I can hold the bottom right flipper to hold a ball and the upper flipper even though it worked won't stay in the up "engaged" position. Any thoughts?

#18 11 years ago

Sounds like its hold power is out. On the three wires, one is hold power. I'd investigate that.

#19 11 years ago

I'm assuming you mean the three single strand (one is a thick and thin) wires coming off the coil itself and going to the three lugs? I just checked those, and found one loose on the lug end. I have resoldered it and hopefully that will do the trick.

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