(Topic ID: 36210)

Official Wisconsin-Minnesota Thread

By RustyLizard

11 years ago


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There are 20,670 posts in this topic. You are on page 106 of 414.
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#5251 9 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

They didn't really have a choice.

You're WAY too kind, John. Anyone who wants to bitch about the price can haul their own games out there. That in itself is a real treat. They can then maintain them for 12 days, with temps in the 90's and dew points in the 70's.

The best part is hauling them back home. Out of the truck, around the fucking house and back in the basement. Oh, and you get to shop them all back out again because they're going to be filthy.

POAS is NOT done for the money. It's done by four dipshits (Chris, Brian, John and Tony) that simply love pinball and love the looks on people's faces when they see a dozen of them lined up in the arcade.

#5252 9 years ago

It amazes me when even pinheads will complain about the price of playing on loaction. I think many do not actually understand what it takes/costs.

Normal location math:
$1 for new Stern gets split 50/50 with bar. Game owner needs to pay the full sales tax on the original $1 also.

That leaves .44 out of each dollar to the operator.

Now account for game liscense costs (in Madison that is $55 per year)
Then Account for insurance for the games and additional incase some drunk cracks their head open on a game (~$600 per year is the cheapest you will find and it goes up for better coverage or more games).
Now you need to factor in wear and tear and time in maintainence.

In general terms a game needs 500 plays on it before it even gets back to the break even point on fees/insurance for the year. Needs another 500 plays to account for just general wear and tear and maintainence time/costs.

If a ramp breaks or plastics crack or board fails or speaker blows or ... well you get the idea.

Keep in mind you also need to swap out a game every 4-6 months to keep it fresh.

Unless you are fortunate to live in a town with lots of location players it is just not being done for profit. It is being done because people want to support location play (or they are a bigger operator and bars require pinball in order for them to run redemption stuff).

I can't blame pinheads for complaining about it, but after just a few months of trying to support the local pinball scene by having games on location the reality is very different. I would happily pay $5/3 plays on ANY good playing DMD.

#5253 9 years ago

5/3, might be a bit steep for me, but a buck a play isn't out of line at all.

#5254 9 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

You're WAY too kind, John. Anyone who wants to bitch about the price can haul their own games out there. That in itself is a real treat. They can then maintain them for 12 days, with temps in the 90's and dew points in the 70's.
The best part is hauling them back home. Out of the truck, around the fucking house and back in the basement. Oh, and you get to shop them all back out again because they're going to be filthy.
POAS is NOT done for the money. It's done by four dipshits (Chris, Brian, John and Tony) that simply love pinball and love the looks on people's faces when they see a dozen of them lined up in the arcade.

Yeah, it's not exactly fun lugging 250 lb (or more) awkwardly shaped machines around. Thanks to all!

#5255 9 years ago

Yeah, just my opinion that I will happily pay that for a clean and 100% functioning game. Most will not.

I think the current location model needs to shift in some way if we hope to continue seeing location pinball in the future. I think most 'barcades' give 100% of the coin drop to the operator. That makes it feasible from a business model and worth the effort. Something needs to change and it does not seem like new games are getting cheaper or locations around me are willing to give a better split to the operator? If pinheads complain at a buck then I don't know what can change? I wish I did because I woudl love to help continuee building a local pinball scene on location.

Right now I see no real reason to buy a 5k game and put it on location for $1 per play aside from the love of pinball and the smiles of location players and their kids. Granted the smiles are pretty sweet! I was in our location last night playing some with my brother and there was a new face in there. I taught him a few rulesets and he was super stoked. He was a pretty good player with some natural skill so after he understood what to shoot for it all clicked for him. That was great!

#5256 9 years ago

$1.00 a game is a deal. If pinball people don't get that, the public never will.

#5257 9 years ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

$1.00 a game is a deal. If pinball people don't get that, the public never will.

Yeah. I find it funny that some video games are $2,3,4 a game yet someone will complain that a pinball machine is 75 cents to $1 a play.

#5258 9 years ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

$1.00 a game is a deal. If pinball people don't get that, the public never will.

I think it comes down to the idea of how much money someone will be given to spend. lets say a mom gives her kid $5 for the arcade, the games may have gone up in price over the years, but the money kids get to spend on each trip really hasn't gone up as well.

Same idea with fast food lunches. Its been $5 that people want to spend for YEARS and now in 2015 when these $5 buck lunches should be in the $8 range, people are still set in their mindset that lunch should be $5.

#5259 9 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Yeah. I find it funny that some video games are $2,3,4 a game yet someone will complain that a pinball machine is 75 cents to $1 a play.

I think it's just human nature. Some people are just prone to find a reason to complain about anything.....

I applaud you guys taking the effort to deliver all these high quality games at shows time and time again.

#5260 9 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Yeah. I find it funny that some video games are $2,3,4 a game yet someone will complain that a pinball machine is 75 cents to $1 a play.

We have Sys 11 type stuff at .50 and some have commented that it should be .25 or 5/$1 like back in the day.

#5261 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

We have Sys 11 type stuff at .50 and some have commented that it should be .25 or 5/$1 like back in the day.

Well tell them back in the day I could get gas for 99 cents a gallon too but now your lucky to find it for under $3.50 a gallon.

#5262 9 years ago

yeah they are often drinking a $4 microbrew that they just tipped $1 for as they tell me...

We would be more apt to keep things going if we could charge .75 for solidstate, $1 for nice DMD, and $1.25 for new titles but unfortunately I do not think the general populus of even pinheads would pay for it.

#5263 9 years ago

I'm not bitching about price. I'm only stating that I was unaware it cost or the cost to play. If the cost was stated before I had left, then I would of made it a point to bring it. The gf brought cash, I didn't. I didn't feel like using her money for my addiction.

#5264 9 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I'm not bitching about price. I'm only stating that I was unaware it cost or the cost to play. If the cost was stated before I had left, then I would of made it a point to bring it. The gf brought cash, I didn't. I didn't feel like using her money for my addiction.

I still don't know how one does not bring $150 cash to the fair. Unless you only go there to walk around and look at things and not eat/drink/do stuff.

#5265 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I still don't know how one does not bring $150 cash to the fair. Unless you only go there to walk around and look at things and not eat/drink/do stuff.

The gf had cash for the food. I was in a rush to get to the cities, didn't fully think about it and wasn't worried as I don't each that much crap food. All I had was a papa pup and split a few shakes....

#5266 9 years ago

Any one at the fair on Monday? Ill be there.

#5267 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I still don't know how one does not bring $150 cash to the fair. Unless you only go there to walk around and look at things and not eat/drink/do stuff.

I don't always carry a lot of cash on me. Usually just plastic. Unless I am going to a fair of course.

#5268 9 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

The gf had cash for the food.

Atta boy!!

#5269 9 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Yeah. I find it funny that some video games are $2,3,4 a game yet someone will complain that a pinball machine is 75 cents to $1 a play.

The problem that I think that location pinball has is that unlike video arcades, where the difference between, say, Ms. Pac-Man and Terminator Salvation is pretty major, pinball has been essentially the same since the DMD was introduced. When PB2K came out, it should have been priced out of the box at $1 / play or more. We should be paying $2 / play or more for a game in the wild today.

#5270 9 years ago

You assume I have the cash to get one... lol

I have other priorities right now.

I shouldn't be complaining.

#5271 9 years ago

Would it help if they just put dollar takers on the machines and refit the old coin doors with dollar takers too? Hell, I saw a buck hunter shooting game that was hooked up to the internet for high scores across the country that had a credit card swiped on it instead of taking any kind of money at all

#5272 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I think it comes down to the idea of how much money someone will be given to spend. lets say a mom gives her kid $5 for the arcade, the games may have gone up in price over the years, but the money kids get to spend on each trip really hasn't gone up as well.

You have that right. Which is why I still have some quarter a play games. Including one pin. At some point I'll add one more pin.

Kids need to have fun and be able to play for awhile too.

LTG : )™

#5273 9 years ago

John explained the financials at MPOAS.

Don't forget the hard work and long hours that are put in during the fair.

I haven't spoken to Bryan recently. But in previous years he and another used to be out there every other night for 3 or 4 hours of cleaning and fixing. And someone is there daily for fixing. AMH didn't cure itself.

I'll be there Tuesday am and play some pinball. I always let my customers know it's going on and the line up.

Supporting MPOAS helps keep it going.

LTG : )™

#5274 9 years ago
Quoted from jpolfer:

You assume I have the cash to get one... lol
I have other priorities right now.
I shouldn't be complaining.

I was just messin' with ya. No offense meant. I should sell my Taf and get one..

#5275 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

yeah they are often drinking a $4 microbrew that they just tipped $1 for as they tell me...
We would be more apt to keep things going if we could charge .75 for solidstate, $1 for nice DMD, and $1.25 for new titles but unfortunately I do not think the general populus of even pinheads would pay for it.

I've never seen a system 11 priced at 5/$1.

#5276 9 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

I've never seen a system 11 priced at 5/$1.

Really? Back in mid 90s my local arcade was always 5games/$1 on the pre-DMD stuff.

#5277 9 years ago

nothing like a sugar momma

#5278 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Really? Back in mid 90s my local arcade was always 5games/$1 on the pre-DMD stuff.

Nope, never saw 5/$1 on any game back in "the day" or now. My timeframe is 1989-1993. Most games were .25 and if they were .50 they offered 3/$1.

#5279 9 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

Nope, never saw 5/$1 on any game back in "the day" or now. My timeframe is 1989-1993. Most games were .25 and if they were .50 they offered 3/$1.

my era was 94-2000 for arcade/bar/ corner store playing on location. By 94 all non-DMD was 5/$1.

#5280 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

my era was 94-2000 for arcade/bar/ corner store playing on location. By 94 all non-DMD was 5/$1.

"All" as in 100%? I played *some* location pinball between 94-97 but never came across anything priced 5/$1. It was all in the Madison area, however. I did see some games that used to typically be .25 marked up to $.50 3/$1 but never cheaper.

Edit: I'm helping your cause, don't know why you're arguing things being cheaper. Lol. Anyhow, .50 for pre dmd is a deal. Maybe .75 or $2 for three on those? $1 for new stuff seems fair but maybe 4 games for $3 sounds good as well. Above $1 is psychologically prohibitive for me.

#5281 9 years ago

lol, not arguing. I was even amazed back then at how cheap it was. if things were going well I could play all afernoon on $1.

We may end up increasing pre-DMD to .75 and all DMD to $1 at some point. I don't know if it would help or hurt the bottom dollar. I do know that currently I am not doing this for the financial incentive. I used to laugh when LTG always said pinball was dying on location for good reason. Now I cry as I understand the reasons.

#5282 9 years ago

Man, you should hear the people at my old work bitch about paying 25 cents a game on newer dmd games....even after they play and see them for $1 every where else....

#5283 9 years ago

Hey All.

Be home in a week and looking to purchase a new machine.

Updating my want list.

I have an Elvis for Trade + or - cash or outright cash sales work.

Junkyard
Radical
Dr. Dude
Bad Cats

If you or a friend have something that fits the bill please let me know.

Thanks

chris

#5284 9 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Man, you should hear the people at my old work bitch about paying 25 cents a game on newer dmd games....even after they play and see them for $1 every where else....

This is why I just buy machines now. Its easier to play them at home and not worry about how many quarters I have to plug in them.

chris

#5285 9 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

You figure all that work and the costs of getting the games ready, transporting them, setting them up, maintaining them and then taking them down, transporting them back, shopping them and putting them back on route...

Case in point, Wolverine's healing factor isn't going to fix this. $200 for a replacement now down the tubes and it's only day 2 of the fair...

!!!!issueols2.JPG!!!!issueols2.JPG
#5286 9 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Case in point, Wolverine's healing factor isn't going to fix this. $200 for a replacement now down the tubes and it's only day 2 of the fair...

Welcome to the wonderful world of operating. Only ten days and 2 3/4 hours to go. Hopefully nothing else expensive breaks.

LTG : )™

#5287 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

Hey All.
Be home in a week and looking to purchase a new machine.
Updating my want list.
I have an Elvis for Trade + or - cash or outright cash sales work.
junkyard
Radical
Dr. Dude
Bad Cats
If you or a friend have something that fits the bill please let me know.
Thanks
chris

There was a super clean Junkyard on CL not long ago, probably was snagged up, but wouldn't hurt to look. It was at the Pinball BBQ this summer, sweet machine.

#5288 9 years ago

Most every time I play pinball it's for $1 . Sometimes it cost me dollar, sometimes I make a dollar ( or a few) either way I've got no problem putting a dollar into a machine or on a machine and sometimes both .

#5289 9 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Most every time I play pinball it's for $1 . Sometimes it cost me dollar, sometimes I make a dollar ( or a few) either way I've got no problem putting a dollar into a machine or on a machine and sometimes both .

I resemble this remark. I believe I'm solely funding Ralphwiggum children's college fun......... 1 dollar at a time.

Chris

#5290 9 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

There was a super clean junkyard on CL not long ago, probably was snagged up, but wouldn't hurt to look. It was at the Pinball BBQ this summer, sweet machine.

I think that was the one going for about $4k. A bit out of my price range.

Thanks for the heads up

#5291 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Welcome to the wonderful world of operating. Only ten days and 2 3/4 hours to go. Hopefully nothing else expensive breaks.
LTG : )™

Yeah, an example of a true quality machine is the ability to last hundreds of hours without repair. I have one Stern machine now so I don't have much to base this on, but I've had a Williams and Gottlieb 'on route' for a while...not many difficulties...

#5292 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

I think that was the one going for about $4k. A bit out of my price range.
Thanks for the heads up

Yeah, it was essentially brand new though...so yeah.

#5293 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

I think that was the one going for about $4k. A bit out of my price range.
Thanks for the heads up

I don't know though, If you had an SS for trade I'm sure you could have done well if he wanted it. That's pinball right, trades are only as good as the desire to own the machine.

#5294 9 years ago

This is very true.

#5295 9 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

I don't know though, If you had an SS for trade I'm sure you could have done well if he wanted it. That's pinball right, trades are only as good as the desire to own the machine.

I'm sure Chris could find a space shuttle to trade for junkyard.

#5296 9 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

I'm sure Chris could find a Space Shuttle to trade for junkyard.

If you have a quality Space Shuttle, I'm game. But if you have an SS, I'm out...I think it's a little overrated myself.

#5297 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

I believe I'm solely funding Ralphwiggum children's college fun

Children's college "fun" or "fund " Either way I'm sure he is happy as both can be expensive .

#5298 9 years ago
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:

If you have a quality Space Shuttle, I'M Game. But if you have an SS, I'm out...I think it's a little overrated myself.

Yeah. I see your point. That SS in my basement is a pile of crap. I think I'll hang onto it for now.

Even though I'm out if room in the basement I still keep looking for more pins. It's such a sickness.

Chris

#5299 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

This is very true.

Cash is king!

#5300 9 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

Yeah. I see your point. That SS in my basement is a pile of crap. I think I'll hang onto it for now.
Even though I'm out if room in the basement I still keep looking for more pins. It's such a sickness.
Chris

Oh, that's not what I mean and you know it. SS is a fun machine...but repetitive quickly...IMO.

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