(Topic ID: 206428)

United/Williams '65 Pyramid Bowl Allows one Shot after Spare

By DryDock

6 years ago

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  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Mopar
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    #1 6 years ago

    Had all the issues worked out of this machine, then...
    Now no matter how many players are up, if any one has a spare going into the frame, it will only allow ONE shot instead of two! (of course a strike will correctly result in being the only shot also) and all pins will reset! This machine was working perfectly, the latest thing done to it was I straightened out a couple of the plastic pins that were slightly bent so they all would be inline. Is it even possible that a switch ABOVE the pins could result in allowing only ONE shot after a spare? Schematics attached...

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    #2 6 years ago

    If you look in the top middle of the 2nd pic there are Player Strike Spare disks under the Player Up disk. Check around there.

    #3 6 years ago

    It sounds like maybe after a spare is up and then a (non-strike) shot
    is made, the spare mark isn't takin' off which means the Strike/Spare
    Reset Relay either isn't energizing, or the S/S Reset Relay's contacts
    need cleaning or adjusting. I'm sure that you already had, but you'll
    want to make sure that the switch stack screws are snugged and not
    loose. Let us know if that's the case. The spare remains on the board
    after shooting the first shot..

    #4 6 years ago

    Maybe check your extra shot relay or stepper - the one that controls how many shots you get in the 10th frame. Perhaps that isn't resetting properly and now every spare is tested as a 10th frame spare where you'd only get 1 more shot??

    #5 6 years ago

    The spare (/) light goes out before the pins are reset.

    #6 6 years ago

    Okay, after a shot is made with a spare showing, does
    the Score Control Relay energize? If so, make sure that
    the switches that should be open when it's energized
    actually are breaking. You might also want to make sure
    that its switches solder tabs are touching in any way..

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    are touching in any way..

    Meant to say: "aren't touching in any way"

    #8 6 years ago

    We all know by now not to use contact cleaner or WD-40 because of how flammable those chemicals are. In fact I know firsthand after spraying contact cleaner and then turning on the machine, I had quite a little fire going in back. Luckily it was extinguished when I shut the door!
    Myself, I know that the flammable part is in the carrier, which means once it dries the carrier has dissipated, evaporated and it is no longer flammable. So I did a "Bozo No-No" and used contact cleaner on the score wheel contact switches. I turnd the wheel until the switches fell into the groove where I can slide them quickly open and closed again while spraying contact cleaner. Then I moved the wheel to the next group of switches and did the same, all the way around 360 degrees. I also sprayed the rivets and fingers. I then went upstairs and had dinner for about an hour to an hour and a half, came back down and turned on the machine to play a game and lo and behold the problem was fixed! I don't know what exactly was at fault, but at this point I really don't care as I now have a fully functioning machine! Thank you all!

    P.S. I don't know if I feel comfortable actually recommending anyone else do this, however.

    #9 6 years ago

    I am very pleased to hear that your machine is now once again working
    properly, but I haven't a clue how cleaning the score reels fixed
    the "only one shot allowed while a spare is up" problem. Must have been
    from vibration while quickly closing the back door, although cleaning
    the score reel contacts will illuminate other problems not related, but
    contact cleaner is really not recommended. Lightly filing contacts
    before adjusting is the all around best way. The only time I do use
    anything flammable is when I put a solvent on a piece of scotch brite
    to clean the wiper boards, and then immediately wipe off dry..
    I'd maybe still check the switches in the Score Control Relay to make
    sure they all look properly gapped..

    #10 6 years ago

    I did very quickly move the relay plate attached to the switches on all relays, but I didn't spray.or gap them because I gapped them all properly 6 weeks ago.or so. I also tightened the 2 switch set screws on each switch set above the plastic bowling pins before going up to dinner as well. Now that I think about it before I grabbed the contact cleaner I did use the sandpaper stick on some of the relay contacts before i got side tracked by a visitor. I'll be darned if I can remember which ones though.
    I think maybe I should start to take notes because I do suffer from CRS...*
    P.S. I didn't clean the score reels, I clean the score motor contact switches, at least I think it's called the score motor, the one bolted to the rear door with switch sets all around the disk.
    *Which in layman terms means "Can't Remember Sh**!

    #11 6 years ago

    This is what I cleaned. I let the switch set fall in to the slot so I could quickly move all the switches back and forth while spraying.

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    #12 6 years ago

    Then I sprayed the other side with the fingers as well as the rivets and gave it a few spins around manually with the machine turned off. Like I said it was a good hour to an hour and a half before I turned it back on so no flammable residue would be present.

    #13 6 years ago

    Oh, the contacts off of the score motor's cam.
    Yes, one of those sets of contacts do keep the
    Score Control Relay energized for a period of time
    which very possibly could be the answer to what
    the problem was. Apparently the Score Control
    Relay would energize, and instead of holding as
    it should, it only quickly released..
    Good deal that the bowler is now working properly,
    but using contact cleaner, not recommended..
    I remember it was a while later that I opened up
    a pinball machine that I had previously picked up.
    On the bottom board I found all wiring burnt and
    a bunch of white powder. Evidently, the fire
    extinguisher was too to far away to make it back in
    time to save the machine..

    #14 6 years ago

    I understand the risks involved with a contact cleaner. My little brother brought me some contact cleaner from work, that is non-flammable. For the life of me I had no idea where I put it! This would have been a great test to see if it cleans as well as a flammable variety. The only reason I used it for those particular switches was it seemed like it would be such a pain to remove the motor assembly to get to the switches well enough to make sure they were gapped properly and clean properly. To be honest, I did not expect it to work!

    3 weeks later
    #15 6 years ago

    And... It Happened AGAIN!
    Same issue, when a spare is showing it will only allow you one shot for the next frame. The last time contact cleaner seemed to repair it, but this time I knew I would have to clean and adjust switches around the score wheel assembly. Not the score reels, but the score motor/disc with three sets of switches mounted around it. Of course I started with a clean/adjustment of the easiest set of switches to get to, thinking I would have to pull the wheel off the door and get the rest, but lo and behold it was the first and easiest set that completed the repair! So this is something you can try if you are experiencing the same problem.

    #16 6 years ago

    Glad to hear all is fine, but one thing I can add, and maybe you already have since you
    took the pic, is to apply a thin film of light grease on the Score Motor's wiper board. I lube
    all the Step-Up-Units, but the Score Motor (and Flash Motor when on Flash) rotates pretty
    much nonstop. The light weight grease really takes away the friction and wear..


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