(Topic ID: 322542)

United’s Bowling Alley pins wont function

By jdapolito

4 days ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by jdapolito
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    1F4972E4-F00B-44CE-924F-ECFB3F3441DE (resized).jpeg
    79F0F5CE-BBC2-4494-B659-C30E6D86FAB6 (resized).jpeg
    E20C3ACA-83C6-42E3-A7CC-877192A2105C (resized).jpeg
    3909B4AE-80B2-4970-AA36-D2BA28BAA9BA (resized).jpeg
    D9CC55A6-FE23-41A7-AE35-10FBC68A70DC (resized).jpeg
    image (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpg

    #1 4 days ago

    Just got a united Bowling alley
    Have gone thru the relay switches strike spare steppers and relay bank
    The player stepper too and cleaned the old style connectors
    Not sure these are called jones plugs , but you know what i mean
    Have not cleaned score reels yet
    But the pins wont retract when ball hits roll overs
    Wont reset either and the ball release gate wont function either
    It does score and proper pin relays trip in the relay bank when the roll overs are activated by the ball
    Frames advance as do players
    The lights over the pins light
    Any hints , is there a switch I'm over looking
    Thanks

    #2 4 days ago

    Lots of questions here.

    If this game was not working before you probably have significant repairs ahead.

    The pin reset motor is fairly straight forward here
    On the united games there is a large bank in the back that will be labeled with each pin. These trip with the closure of the lane switches. You can manually throw these and see if that part is working.

    #3 4 days ago
    Quoted from jdapolito:

    The lights over the pins light

    Okay, the pin lights are lit so the Yellow Common is feeding the Pin Deck..
    The Pin Reset motor doesn't energize to reset the pins. From what I gathered,
    it sounds like they don't, but to confirm, if you manually reset the pins, then
    activate the rollovers, the relays in the Relay Bank energize, and do the pins
    go up?

    #4 4 days ago

    If i manually activate the rollovers the appropriate relays in the relay bank do energize but the pins do not go up
    The game does score though when the rollovers are activated also

    #5 4 days ago

    Seems the Yellow Common wire is alive to the pin deck if the pin deck lights
    are lit, but you might want to check (recheck) the Pin Deck's plugin (Jones Plug)
    on the right inner wall near the rear maybe a couple feet from the Ball Lift box.
    That feeds the pin's circuit coming from the Bank Relay..

    #6 4 days ago

    If all looks good there, on the pin deck, the Yellow Common wire is connected to the metal of
    one of the pin units, then the rest of the pin units are tide together with small flat stock.
    Make sure that Yellow Common wire is making good connection to that one pin unit..

    #7 4 days ago

    Ok ill check it out tomorrow
    And let you know
    Thanks

    #8 3 days ago

    Is this what you mean ?
    4 out of 10 of the pins units have a ground like this
    All black insulated wires
    Im going to clean these anyway
    As i had ground trouble before
    And these are the plugs from the pindeck
    Im going to check the connections and solder joints for each wire
    Again thanks for the help

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
    #9 3 days ago
    Quoted from jdapolito:

    Is this what you mean ?

    Yes. My mistake, Black is the common for the Pin Units. Yellow
    for the Pin Lights.
    The Pin Reset Motor and Pin Reset Relay (also on the Pin Deck)
    has the Black for the common, so it appears the Black isn't feeding
    to the Pin Deck. Did you check the Pin Deck's plugin which is on the
    inside wall (the wall the hinges are on and just left of the big coffin's spring?
    Check the Black wire on both the male and female of the plugins.
    Because it's not feeding the Pin Units or Pin Reset Relay, it seems there's
    probably some sort of bad connection and not making it up the Pin Decks
    pig tail. Another thought is with the coffin is open, check where that Pig
    Tail bends back and forth (rear of the machine, left hand side) when the
    coffin is opened and closed. Might be a bad spot in the wire..

    #10 3 days ago

    Ok ill do that i cleaned all the black leads where they screw into the pin units hoping id get lucky but it didnt help
    Ill get back to it tonight and let you know
    might get a long wire and jump from a pin unit common wire to the female end of the plug inside the machine
    Also this common line wouldnt feed the solenoid that releases the balls too would it ?

    Thanks again

    #11 3 days ago
    Quoted from jdapolito:

    Also this common line wouldnt feed the solenoid that releases the balls too would it ?

    You have one of the few Bowling Alleys with the Ball Gate still attached.
    Back when, they gave the Vendors so many problems, they just detached them..
    Yes, the Black wire off the Coin Relay would be a good place to jump from, and
    if still no luck, bypass the plugins and go right to the black on the Pin Deck.

    #12 3 days ago

    Ok if i detach a spring on the ball gate the balls go rt thru
    The balls get hung up a bit at the top of the ball lift when the ball hits the metal wheels on top but as i work it they seem to get better
    Now i jumped the black wire from a pin unit to the solder joint on the male end of the plug and look what i get the pins retract
    Yes !
    Thank you so much i think ill run another wire bypassing the black
    But the pins wont reset unless i press the top copper blade down in the reset motor

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
    #13 3 days ago
    Quoted from jdapolito:

    But the pins wont reset unless i press the top copper blade down in the reset motor

    And the pins also reset if you manually press the Pin Reset Relay (the relay on the
    Pin Deck next to the Pin Reset motor) right?
    The Pin Reset Relay energizes through the Score Motor's Wiper Board. If you hadn't
    already, I'd first take off the wiper and clean then lightly lube the Wiper Board and also
    inspect the Wiper's rivets.
    Maybe you want to keep everything original, but if you continue to have problems
    with the Ball Gate, I'd maybe take off the piece that keeps the balls from rolling..

    #14 2 days ago

    I was so keyed up at seeing those pins retract i didnt even look at the pin rest relay
    I though about it this morning on the way to work
    I’ll check it out and clean the wipers tonight
    And let you know what happens
    Ive had shuffle bowlers but these ball bowlers are really neat

    #15 2 days ago

    Ok tje pin reset relay does activate the pin reset motor
    I did clean the wipers on the score motor and the rivits made sure they were making good contact
    Still not resetting
    When i touch two of the copper blades on the switch motor together the relay is activated so the relay itself is good
    Could be another bad connection ?
    I tried to see what wires to try to jump from the reset relay to the jones plug but couldnt tell
    Or is there another possible cause
    Also when the score motor is in its resting position no rivits are in contact with any of the copper fingers,is this correct ? (See picture)
    Finally pins one and the three pin do not retract
    I used a jumper wire from pin one relay to pin 5 and when pin five was tripped by its rollover pin one went up also
    I did this for pin 3 to pin 8 relay and when tripped the wire immediately burned up
    Could it be a short in the pin three relay ?
    Again thanks for all the help
    I feel we are getting close

    D9CC55A6-FE23-41A7-AE35-10FBC68A70DC (resized).jpeg
    #16 2 days ago

    The Score Motor's wiper's resting position looks okay.
    So when you manually activate the Pin Reset Relay, the
    Pin Reset Motor does energize.
    While playing the machine, when the pins are suppose to
    reset, the Pin Reset Relay doesn't energize?
    When touching the (run-out) switches together on the Pin
    Reset motor, the Pin Reset Relay shouldn't energize. The Pin
    Reset Relay is what first energizes the Pin Reset motor, then
    the Pin Reset Motor's run-out switch takes over..
    On the #1 Pin not going up. Make sure the set of contacts on the
    #1 Pin Unit is closed and making good contact when the pin
    is down (in the reset position). There's also a set of contacts
    in the #1 Relay (in the Relay Bank) that makes and energizes the
    #1 Pin when #1 Relay is in the energized position..
    It's strange that the #3 Pin wire shorted. I'm sure it was, but
    when jumping, the wire was for sure on the proper terminal?
    Does the #3 Pin coil look burnt?

    #17 1 day ago

    The pin reset relay does not energize when it should
    And when i close one of the switches on the pin reset relay (the ones located closest to the coil the relay does energize
    Not sure this helps but at least i know fhe relay is good
    I will look at the number one pin contacts again on the pin unit and number one relay in the relay bank
    And rhe coil on the number theee pin doesnt look burnt to me
    Ill double check the way i jumped it but im pretty sure i did it correctly
    Im might try to find the wires on the jones plug fhat run from the pin reset relay maybe another bad connection
    Also what is this for or where does it go
    The guy i bought this from said it came from the game

    3909B4AE-80B2-4970-AA36-D2BA28BAA9BA (resized).jpeg
    #18 1 day ago

    Okay, if you look around the area where the Pin,s Jones Plug is (the
    Jones plug you've been working on) there's 2 sets of switches that open
    when the coffin (playfield cover) is opened, and those 2 sets closes
    when the coffin is closed. One set closes the circuit to the Ball Lift
    Motor (can't remember which set, but maybe has thicker wires because
    the Ball Lift Motor is 110V), and the other set closes the circuit to the
    Pin Relay. You'll what to make sure those switches are clean and closing
    when the coffin is close. You can elegator clip them for testing.
    United felt it was best for both the Pin Reset Relay and the Ball Lift
    Motor didn't energize when the coffin was open, which certainly makes sense.
    The 2 wires on the set of switches that go to the Pin Reset Relay are
    Gray-Red and Gray-White. The Gray-White should be the one in the Pin
    Deck,s Pig Tail. So if those switches are clean and making connection and
    the Pin Reset Relay still doesn't energize during game play, you can jump
    from those set of switches to the Gray-White on the Pin Reset Relay's coil
    and if it works, then you'll know it's another bad wire (Gray-White)in the Pin
    Deck's Pig Tail..
    The good size rubber piece should be attached in the Ball Lift box and that's
    what the ball first hits after rolling under the pins and leaving the alley. It
    absorbs the punishment it would give hitting the Ball Lift Box's back door.
    You'll see 5 holes where it bolts to with what I consider as very thin bolts,
    thus I've found some of those bolts broken on some Bowling Alleys.
    What I do is drill and make those holes 3/16", line up that rubber backstop,
    (that thin rubber faces the front of the machine so that's what the ball would
    hit first), then with a Phillip screw bit in a drill, fasten the backstop with 3" deck
    screws. I have 3 or 4 Bowling Alleys out on location, but none set up here,
    however I may be able to sneak a camera in a ball lift box from one in the barn
    and take a pic of the rubber's backing to show exactly where it's mounted..
    It's pretty important that it's remounted where it should be..

    #19 1 day ago

    Ok I did check to make sure those switches are closed and clean when the door is closed
    I also clipped the switches closed and still no reset
    So now i will try to use a wire to jump from the jones plug to the relay bypassing the existing grey white wire
    Im not at the game now
    But is it a grey white wire on the swtch closed by the coffin door also ?

    #20 1 day ago

    Never mind
    Dumb question ill check i out tonight after work
    Thanks

    #21 1 day ago

    Yea, and maybe jump right off the Gray-White set of switches that the Coffin cover closes.
    I checked, and without much work, I couldn't get to the back side of a United Ball Lift box,
    but if you have and questions, I can take a pic from one of the ones uptown..

    #22 1 day ago

    Ok my nightly update
    Used a jumper wire from the pin reset relay to the male side of the jones plug and it resets!
    Initially it would reset once but the relays of the pins that retracted seemed to stay activated and wouldnt reset , the reset motor would run again and the pins would reset
    Now the pins reset once , the pins that were retracted dont reset ( you hear a buzzing i think from the pin coils )and the reset motor stops leaving those pins in the retracted position.frame advances and game goes on
    After the 10th frame the pins do reset and stay put in down position
    Also im thinking of running a jumper wire from pin1 and pin 3 coils to the jomes plug and see if that works
    What do you think
    Again thanks for all the help
    Also i found were that ball bumper goes and reattached it

    #23 1 day ago

    It sounds like the pins are finishing its reset before the Bank Relay
    resets which would mean the Score Motor is running too slow.
    It's a little tight, but with a light, on the back side of the Score Motor
    is the armature's tail that slides in when the motor is energized, and
    springs back out when de-energized. That small tail many times is dry
    and a spray can free it up and give the Score Motor its proper RPMs.
    Check, and I bet the Pins are in the totally reset position before the
    Relay Bank energizes..
    Yea, if you can make out the color codes okay, you can first jump
    the #1 and #3 pins to the Jones Plug and see if that does the trick.
    It probably will. It seems you have a bad spot in the Pin Deck's Pig
    Tail.

    #24 7 hours ago

    Ok lubricating the score motor worked like a charm
    I jumped the wire for the number one pin and that is working now
    I did the same for the 3 pin and the wire burned up , i think its a bad coil can you tell me the number of the coil so i can replace it
    And im posting some pics of the wiring of the credit button amd the coin mech
    This game has another switch wired to it , the credit button and coin mech do nothing
    Id like to get it to where at least the credit button works
    Thanks for all the great advice and help

    1F4972E4-F00B-44CE-924F-ECFB3F3441DE (resized).jpeg79F0F5CE-BBC2-4494-B659-C30E6D86FAB6 (resized).jpegE20C3ACA-83C6-42E3-A7CC-877192A2105C (resized).jpeg

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!