(Topic ID: 227375)

united shuffle alley newbie


By rick3658

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 34 days ago by pinballbrian
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 1 year ago

    I bought this shuffle alley and was told it worked was all apart,now together again. I plugged it in and it blew two fuses right away no lights came on but buzzing sound i unplugged it. I am wondering one there is a red wire off by coil slot and switch is just laying loose. Two can i unplug all cables and plug them back in one by one to locate where the problem is? Also and maybe most inportant where would i be able to get wiring diagram for it. I will dig into it more tonight and have more info. thank you like i said i am new to this any help would be great

    1 week later
    #2 1 year ago

    Hey, I have a United "Team" shuffle Alley. I may have the schematics mine, I'll check tonight. Mine has 6" pins and is a 6 player unit. There are photos of mine in my profile. Let me know if needed and I'll see what I can find. I can also take some photos if that helps any? Good luck, we love ours!

    #3 1 year ago

    I've been working my way through a United Pacer shuffle alley, and though I haven't gotten it fixed I might be able to get you pointed in the right direction. Someone more seasoned than I am might have better feedback, but since it's been a while I figured I'd weigh in.

    First, check out Clay's bowler site. It's an awesome primer on this, as is most of the EM pinball documentation. http://www.pinrepair.com/bowl/

    Most importantly, read the Before Turning It On section. Basically, it's not worth troubleshooting the electrical problems until you've made sure all the mechs are freed up and working properly. That's a lot of cleaning, but it's totally worth it. Get 2000 q tips, a gallon of rubbing alcohol, and some super lube and go nuts. Get a friend to help, and watch it cleaning the score reels.

    After it's clean, you should make every effort to get the schematic for that game.

    If it's Team Shuffle Alley, the service manual can be downloaded from: https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-arcade/United%201954%20TEAM%20SHUFFLE%20%20Service%20Manual.pdf. Even if that's not your game, it does a decent job of generally describing the operation of any of the United EM bowlers. You still need the schematic, though.

    There ought to be some bulky connectors in the back of the machine that connect to the pin deck, lanes, and front coin box lights and switches. I'd replace those fuses, pull those connectors, then turn it on again. If the fuses blow, you know your most immediate problem isn't related to anything outside of the backbox.

    If the fuses don't trip, turn it off and inspect each of the wiring harnesses for shorts, then connect them one at a time between power off/power on to see if the fuses blow.

    You may want to to make a breaker fuse so you don't have to keep replacing fuses. You can buy a 7A breaker (they trip slower than a fuse, so you want lower amperage to stay safe) and solder it to a blown fuse. Then you put that in and just reset it when the fuse blows. This breaker should work: amazon.com link »

    There's a million other things but really it just comes down to isolating the good sections from the bad. Someone with more knowledge of that specific machine might be able to help.

    Oh - and that red wire up front - while it's possible that it's a problem, it's likely that someone rigged the game for free play and did some "tweaking" up there to make sure it stayed rigged.

    Hope that helps...

    #4 1 year ago

    wow thanks a lot i did get past the blowing fuses now cant get it to zero bowler one and two score and there is a relay buzzing under the lane i will keep cleaning and work my way thru and advice you have and will share is great thank you

    1 month later
    #5 1 year ago

    I am new to restoring United's Crystal Shuffle Alley. I am finding it hard to reliably clean every relay contact. My latest problem is with the pin relays in the back. After each frame, the pins reset properly, but some of the relays for the pins in the back do not reset. Any idea what would cause this problem?

    #6 1 year ago

    I’m a newbie. But sometimes on my em pb Machines the relays “jump” out of their tracks and need reset into the right ridges (if that makes sense ?). Hoefully someone will chime in here with real info tho . Clean. Clean. And more clean. But as it was stated earlier it’s worth it.

    I actually have my granddaughters play my games regularly to keep the switches functioning once they do work!

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from jls667:

    After each frame, the pins reset properly, but some of the relays for the pins in the back do not reset. Any idea what would cause this problem?

    When this happens, does it happen with the same relays all the time?
    Had you checked the rollover switches that the puck slides over for
    proper gap? Also, you'll want to make sure the rollover switch stack
    screws are snugged tight (not overly tight)..
    There's other possibilities for that issue, but I'd first check the rollover
    switches..

    #8 1 year ago

    No. It is not always the same ones. I think the relays are not resetting reliably. The rollover switches just make the pins go up. When the pins go up, a bar hits switches that trip the relays in the back. It is those relays in the back that are probably not reliably resetting.

    #9 1 year ago

    I forgot when United made the transition to where the pin switches pull the relay bank relays,
    but your Crystal pins do pull the Reset Bank relays. So each pin probably has a make break switch. I'm
    sure you probably already checked them for proper gap..
    It's possible, but I wouldn't think so that that many relays in the relay bank has magnetized plates.
    When this happens to a relay in the bank, manually reset it and see if that relay buss as if it's
    energize. I'm thinking that it won't..
    The switch that resets the Bank Relay coil runs off of the score motor's cam. That switch makes
    just before the score motor completes its cycle. You'll want to make sure that switch is clean and
    gaped properly. Also, I found the plunger on Bank Rest coils can be a little sticky. I spray a little
    carb cleaner on a piece of paper towel to clean the plunger, then wipe dry, and then repeat the
    process using Lemon Pledge. Lemon Pledge slickins' things..
    When the Bank Reset's bar resets the relays, it doesn't travel perfectly straight up, but also travels
    very slightly to the side. I once had a bowler that had stickiness on the bar and relay plates and
    while resetting, the bar would (evidently) grab and slightly twist the plates preventing them to latch.
    While going through a bowler, I made it a habit to clean the bar and plates (where the bar comes
    in contact) with carb cleaner on a piece of scotch brite, and then apply a thin film of light grease.
    I haven't had that issue since..
    BTW: Be careful while cleaning and gaping the switch off of the score motor's cam that resets the
    Bank Reset Relay's coil. That circuitry is 110V..

    #10 1 year ago

    When I manually reset the relays, the relays do reset properly. I did see a youtube about what to do if relays stay energized. That does not seem to be the problem here. I also did work on the switch connected to the score motor. That still could be a problem. At this point I probably need to do the reset relay system cleaning you suggested.

    Thanks.

    #11 1 year ago

    I cleaned the relay bank reset system. It feels effortless to reset the relays. I still get the same problem. I notice that the relays always reset correctly at startup. The problems only seem to occur at the end of a frame and only sometimes. Is this significant?

    #12 1 year ago

    It's possible multiple coil plates in the relay bank are magnetized, but maybe
    the pin reset motor is running slow and the bank relay is resetting before the
    pins reset. Does the Bank Reset coil fire just before the pins reset, or does the
    pins reset beforehand as it should?

    #13 1 year ago

    It looks like the pins reset first.

    #14 1 year ago

    It is possible the pins are not done resetting when the relays reset.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from jls667:

    It is possible the pins are not done resetting when the relays reset.

    This would certainly cause the issue..
    I figure you probably don't want to to take the pin reset motor apart if you don't have to,
    but you need to speed up that motor. I'm not in the habit of using many lubricants (except
    Remmington Gun Oil), but on the pin reset motor, the armature has a small tail on the rear
    that pulls in when the motor is energized. You'll probably have to take the pin hood totally
    off to do this, but with thruss or PB Blaster (I like Freeall), but with a can of lubricant (with
    its straw), with the machine on, lightly spray the tail, then right away energize the motor
    by manually energizing the pin reset relay, or just turn the motor's cam a small amount just
    enough to get the run-out switch to make, then it'll complete its rotation on its own.
    You can repeat this process a couple times. Very possibly (and hopefully), the armature will
    spin more freely, and give the motor that extra RPM to reset the pins before the bank resets..

    #16 1 year ago

    Is it possible the contacts on a switch that resets the pins to be just dirty enough to delay activating slightly?

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from jls667:

    Is it possible the contacts on a switch that resets the pins to be just dirty enough to delay activating slightly?

    That's a good theory, but I'm pretty confident that isn't it. I'm figuring your machine's contact that you're
    thinking of is off of the score motor's wiper board. It's quick. It either makes, or doesn't, and yours is making..
    On the 50s ball bowlers, the rollovers energize the Bank's relays, then the Bank relays pull the pins. Just the
    opposite of yours, and has the same problem as yours, but in reverse. If the score motor runs slow (and that's not
    uncommon when going through a machine), the pins will go back up. Because on United motors, the rivets need
    to be drilled out to get it apart, I usually just lubricate the armatures tail, and that usually does the trick, but the
    last one I restored a couple of weeks ago, that score motor was really slow. Barely moved. That one had to come
    apart. It sounds like your pin reset motor needs to speed up just a hair, thus, it wouldn't surprise me if just lubing
    the tail will do the trick..

    #18 1 year ago

    Thank you for your clear explainations. I put a small amount of lubrication on the pin reset motor. That did help, but two pin relays still sometimes tripped. I then cleaned all the switches above the pins which seems to have fixed the relay reset problem. I appreciate all the help. My next project is to figure out why the frames are not advancing reliably. I have the wiring diagram. It seems like there are a bunch of switches that need checking.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from jls667:

    Is it possible the contacts on a switch that resets the pins to be just dirty enough to delay activating slightly?

    You know, a set of contacts in the pin reset relay is what first energizes the pin reset motor. It wouldn't
    hurt to clean and check the gap, but I don't think that would change much..

    Quoted from jls667:

    I then cleaned all the switches above the pins which seems to have fixed the relay reset problem.

    Did you also maybe adjust the switches? Switches too close could slightly vibrate and sometimes activate the relay bank's relays..
    On the frames not stepping up, you'll want to first make sure the Frame Step Up Unit is clean and working freely. Also, you'll
    want to check the contacts in the "Player Reset Relay"

    #20 1 year ago

    I have become very good at cleaning stepper units and putting them back together. Some were really gummed up with old lubricants.

    I assume that I should be using powder on the sliding surface during play. Is there supposed to be some catch box underneath to catch the powder as it falls through the holes? In my case the powder just falls on the floor.

    #21 1 year ago

    I primarily work on ball bowlers, but yes, I believe a metal tray may have once been
    screwed underneath where the powder falls through..
    While the playing surface is free of the powder, what I like to do is wipe the formica
    dry with Lemon Pledge. It makes the powder more effective..

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from jls667:

    I have become very good at cleaning stepper units and putting them back together. Some were really gummed up with old lubricants.
    I assume that I should be using powder on the sliding surface during play. Is there supposed to be some catch box underneath to catch the powder as it falls through the holes? In my case the powder just falls on the floor.

    Yes, These united shuffle bowlers have a sheet metal tray about 3 feet long and as wide as the lane to catch powder.

    #23 1 year ago

    It turns out my pin relays are still tripping sometimes. I thought that I tried all the suggestions. I will try them again.

    #24 1 year ago

    Well, if the pins are totally resetting just before the Bank Relay energizes, then it's possible
    multiple coil plates are magnetized in the Relay Bank..
    If it appears 2 or 3 are tripping fairly frequently, you can try feeding a small piece of paper
    between the coil and their plates so that there's a thin barrier between the two. If that happens
    to do the trick on the ones where you placed the paper, then it would appear it's magnetized plates
    that's causing the issue..

    1 year later
    #25 34 days ago

    I know this is old thread ,but the service manual for this machine is on international arcade museum website.also wanted to say it will be same for other 6 player united alleys of this type for early 50,s .( 1954 united team shuffle alley.).

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 60.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Whitewater pinball mods
    $ 20.00
    Various Novelties
    GC Pinball
    $ 25.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Great American Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 40.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    $ 7,395.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    $ 4.49
    Electronics
    Yorktown Arcade Supply
    $ 103.00
    $ 229.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 74.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 159.00
    $ 219.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 15.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    $ 9.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Bent Mods
    From: $ 38.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Pinball Mod Co.
    $ 55.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 20.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 28.50
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 40.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    $ 39.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 95.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    M&M Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside