(Topic ID: 240940)

United Bowling Alley Restoration Attempt: Help Gladly Accepted!

By RonSS

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 382 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Jaymach1
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    20191117_095213 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095213 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095203 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095140 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095157 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095126 (resized).jpg
    20191117_095136 (resized).jpg
    20190826_231444 (resized).jpg
    20191013_095405 (resized).jpg
    20191009_203729 (resized).jpg
    20191009_202843 (resized).jpg
    4BEF9F9C-F98C-465C-859C-8F29E1514306 (resized).jpeg
    0051E014-0444-4879-83E3-8EB95361AB63 (resized).jpeg
    34D52B79-BD53-49CA-AD62-C8F256295264 (resized).jpeg
    20191008_173750 (resized).jpg
    20191007_233305 (resized).jpg

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mopar.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    #15 5 years ago

    Ron, your Bowler really doesn't look all that bad. If you haven't already, I myself would jump on that undone
    hinge by taking the C clip and washer off of the large spring rod so the coffin will widely open, then place a 5
    gallon pail where the pin unit side is so when you push the spring rod to the left, the coffin will open
    further and be able to rest on the pail. (Actually, best is something a bit shorter than a 5 gallon pail, but
    taller than a mop pail). Then you can more easily access the hinge's screw holes. If the holes has been
    ripped larger, then gluing pieces of toothpicks in the 3 holes work fine. Some might say that's generic,
    but it works perfectly fine especially if you get wood screws that are 1/2" longer than the original so that
    they travel into the wood that much further.
    The only hack that I noticed (besides the ball lift motor cut wires (orange and purple) was the ball gate which
    can 100% be eliminated anyways. The Vendors all had problems with them, so they just disabled them.
    On the fuse holder that's empty (low line), I always snip the short jumper that's between the normal fuse
    holder and the low line so in the future, if sometime unknowingly places a fuse in that holder, that circuitry will
    be cut.
    For some reason, when starting on the mechanics, I always start on the head, but for the Step-Up-Units,
    after taking off the wipers, I use a piece of scotch brite with a little carb cleaner sprayed on it to clean the wiper
    board's rivets, then wipe off cleanly. Some of the bowlers I brought back weren't far from part machines, and
    the carb cleaner easily ate away the green mold on those wiper boards, so I just kept using it all the step-ups.
    I always go 100% through a machine before plugging it in, and if it hasn't already, the power cord will surely
    have to be replaced.
    I'll let you know on a few other things when you get to that point..
    Sorry if some of the things that I mentioned are just common sense, but I just wanted to make sure.
    I'm actually currently working on a Bowling Alley because I couldn't get my old Plymouth out of the garage with
    the bowler there. I'll take pics of certain important areas of the mechanics of the machine..
    BTW, is the original 10 cent coin mech with the machine?

    #17 5 years ago

    Ron, if the hinge itself seems okay, then the screw holes may have became to large. Does that portion
    of the hinge seems loose? If so, you might want to put in screws an inch longer than the originals.
    There's plenty of upper wood there to do so..
    On the fuse, that's correct. No fuse in the low line holder. I believe it was in the mid 70s when U.S.
    districts last had voltage for where the low line was used. My first machine (1956 United Shuffle)
    came with a fuse in both positions (low and normal) and also came with a burnt out transformer.
    Made me learn some stuff pretty quick..
    Yea, I was talking about where the wires are cut. That's the ball gate. It was meant to send a ball
    down as needed ( I think maybe primarily to keep the balls hidden when game was over) but that feature
    had multiple problems, and out of the dozens of Bowling Alleys that I went through, only one had a
    complete ball gate and still wired. I removed it. You can just snip and tape those wires off..
    If the power cord hasn't been replace yet, some like to go with a 3 prong, but I always kept it
    original by picking up a cheap 12' extension cord at Wal-Mart and snipping off the female end.
    Never had a problem. (The original cord's coating will for sure have cracks in it).
    BTW: Not sure if you knew, but this is Tim from Upstate. Figured I'd post here in case others might
    be able to use some info.
    Also, let us know when you get to the Strike/Spare Step-Up-Units. Things need to be added there..
    Also the ball lift..

    #21 5 years ago

    Ron, where's the bottom board of the head, still bolted to the ball lift box?
    When taking off the Coin Step-Up wiper, with a flat screw driver, did you first
    pry it from the backside? The wiper blades don't generally seperate without force.
    Years back, I remember keeping track of the turns of the return springs. I now do
    much of it by feel..

    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from dwizz:

    Does anyone know of a company that may make lane sections?

    Being 13', must be you have a Big Ball United. I have build extensions for Chicago Coin Big Balls, and a MBA.
    I can say if you do decide to build one, you'll want to contact cement 1/8" cork on the plywood before contact
    cementing the formica. Without the cork, the rolling of the ball won't sound as pleasant once it reaches that section
    of the lane..
    BTW: 16' over 13' is a good size difference. 20' over 16' is night and day. Not sure if you have the room,
    but 13' to 20' "Wow"!! I used the entire 8' of the formica that I had bought and turned a 13' Chicago Coin into
    a 21 footer. It's more than night and day..

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I've got check my wood pile from the purchase to see if I have a bottom. Who knew?

    It'll have 2 holes in it for the bolts. I'm sure it's much easier to move, but it's not very common for the ball lift box
    to be removed from the rear lane cabinet section. Maybe the head was remove oddly also. The head's bottom may
    still be bolted to the ball lift box..

    #32 5 years ago

    Ron, you had already cleaned and lubed the Frame Step-Up's gear shaft right?
    I'm sure that it steps up alright, so I would give the return spring one more wind..
    On the Ball Lift motor, if you spin the small fan, you should find that the shaft will
    slowly turn (only 50 RPM). Although I did need to take one or two apart before,
    more than likely you'll only need to put a couple drops of light weight oil in the
    two oil stems, but not until it's ready to fire up..
    The thing that I'm sure many times does not get checked is the lower rolling
    rubber that the belt rides on. It's a little rough to get to, but not terribly bad.
    Taken that rubber roller off and cleaning the shaft and inside the roller I found
    to be a very good idea. After cleaning, I apply a bit of wheel bearing grease to
    the shaft, but if the roller's hole is worn and lob-long, then that will take an added
    little trick, but 95% chance all it'll need is the grease.
    When you're ready for that, I can lend you a hand if you'd like..

    #34 5 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    What do I do about the spacers behind the brackets holding the scoring wheels?

    It's common for those cushioned spacers to be dried out and not very reusable..
    I always keep a package of those metal washers with rubber on one side primarily for
    the replacement of those score reel spacers. I get the 1/4" ID, 5/8" OD.
    They're used for metal sheet roofing and many places sell them only along with
    the self tapping screws, but Lowes (where I pick them up) sells packages of them
    seperately. Keeping the score reels further away from the backglass with those spacers
    is fairly important..

    #36 5 years ago

    No problem. I forgot to mention. Also, on the curve front for th3 pin hood. A carpenter Friend has a
    large band saw and I had 3/4" thick "C" like figures cut out of 4 X 4 wood, then I glue them in position,
    then bondo. I had a decent pin hood front to use to outline the curve. I just did one up last week. I'm Still
    working on the machine. Pin hood is still off. I'll take a couple of pics..

    #38 5 years ago

    That's a good thought doing it with 3/4" plywood..
    Here's the "C" figure cut from a 4x4. The actual 3.5"
    was a little short, so I first glued it to a piece of luan
    which actually gave it a nice base when gluing it in position
    to the hood..
    After, on the underside, I filled the "V" with Locktite premium
    construction adhesive (good stuff) for additional strength..
    As far as the bowler itself, the only painting left is the finishing
    of the blue striping. Should have her pretty much all complete by
    the end of the weekend..

    IMG_1487 (resized).JPGIMG_1487 (resized).JPGIMG_1488 (resized).JPGIMG_1488 (resized).JPGIMG_1489 (resized).JPGIMG_1489 (resized).JPGIMG_1490 (resized).JPGIMG_1490 (resized).JPGIMG_1491 (resized).JPGIMG_1491 (resized).JPG

    4 weeks later
    #59 4 years ago

    Ron, one thing that I've found out, and I'd like to post it here because I feel that it's fairly important,
    which is, after a while after the ball bowlers were first distributed (1956), there was a problem where
    the Strike/Spare Step-Up-Units wiper board would begin warping away from the wiper because of the
    pressure the wiper was applying upon it. I've seen a few things that was placed between the back of
    the wiper board and frame to solve this problem, but what's easiest for me is cutting 1/2" X 1/2" strips
    of wood 5" long. That's what I place behind all wiper boards as you'll see in the pic. I've seen half cut
    small like rubber balls placed behind the board on multiple machines, so I'm pretty sure that's what United
    themselves came up with for the solution..
    Now that the wiper board was stiffened up, what eventually happened next is the the wiper would begin
    warping away from the board. In the late 50s, United corrected this by stiffening up the wipers with metal,
    but of course that didn't help the earlier machines that were already out with the wipers that didn't have
    the reinforced metal, so what I do is cut 1/16" thick 5/8" X 3" flat stock (I'm sure 1/2" X 3" would be fine)
    and wrap then heat electrical tape about an inch up on one end. I heat and slightly melt the tape to keep it
    from ever unwrapping. Note: Before I put on the tape, I drill a 1/4" hole on one end. When attaching to the
    wiper as you'll see in the pic, leaving off the lock washer is not a problem. I had machines out since the mid 90s,
    and never had any come loose. This can and does make a difference. Keeps the X and / lights from dimming,
    and keeps the units responding properly. Here's a couple of pics on what I'm talking about..

    IMG_1507 (resized).JPGIMG_1507 (resized).JPGIMG_1510 (resized).JPGIMG_1510 (resized).JPG
    #60 4 years ago

    BTW, in the last pic you'll see the other Strike/Spare Unit has a wiper with a piece of metal to
    stiffen it up. Not many do but this machine came with them and it's the same principle but doesn't
    look like the metaled ones United came up with in the late 50s and early 60s while still using this
    type of Strike/Spare Step-Ups. This machine is a 1957, and years back I picked it up from the
    operator. Perhaps after complaining, United sent them these maybe kinda sample reinforced wipers.
    To my surprise, all six Step-Ups came with the reinforced wipers, and I put a regular non-reinforced
    wiper on the one to show and take a pic so I didn't have to explain about the metal on the wiper
    but "Haha", I had to anyways seeing that the other Step-Up's reinforced wiper was in the pic.
    I maybe should save these wipers. Might kinda be proto type. They're made clean enough so it doesn't
    seem the vendor had made them, but yet not as clean as United's later known ones..
    Anyways, had to write this to explain the wiper shown on the other Step-Up..

    #64 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Should I just leave it be and see if it runs fine, or go ahead and insert the wood now then correct the wipers if needed?

    I'd at least put the wood in Ron. That alone does make a difference, and down the road if needed,
    I can send you the flat stock. With a table saw, cutting a strip 1/2" X 1/2" then cutting 5" pieces
    from the strip goes pretty quick..
    I went through quite a few bowlers for Mickey, and always put in the wood and metal over the wipers.
    I got the idea of the wood from a bowler I long ago got in, but I did think of the metal when the Strike/
    Spare Units on a machine that I had out wasn't responding correctly. Found out the wiper was making
    minimum contact because of it's warping. Haven't had a problem since after adding the metal pieces..
    Your United is coming along nicely. Maybe you should share the C.C. in action on here..

    1 week later
    #95 4 years ago

    Ron, once started up, the Lock Relay should remain energized.
    That jumper from one bank relay to the other is suppose to be there.
    I'll get back to you tomorrow..

    #99 4 years ago

    While the Lock Relay is energized, if you jump a wire from the Lock Relay's lug furthest from you (the one closest
    to the 1st Players Strike/Spare Unit), and the other end to the Score Motor's lug closest to you (Not the black
    wire), the score motor should energize.
    If not, on the back side of the score motor (near the lug that you jumped), is the armature's tail. With a small
    screwdriver, you can check if that tail moves in and out fairly freely. It's not a bad idea to first put a little spray on
    the tail to get it free. If all fails, the motor should come out a be inspected. Perhaps one of the end of its windings
    came loose from its solder lug..

    #104 4 years ago

    Yup, that motor is 50V.. Over that tip of the armature is where the funnel type small plastic
    goes over, then a spring behind the plastic.
    If you take that 5/16" (takes a 1/2" wrench) nut off that's on the other side of the motor,
    you should find the plastic type funnel along with the spring..
    When putting back together (after freeing up the armature tail so the it freely slides in its
    sleeve) I would put the nut on last by first placing the small white funnel over the end tip of
    the armature, then the spring, the the nut..
    Lets first make certain the funnel and spring are there..

    #110 4 years ago

    Vertically it wouldn't, but horisontal it should, but should be totally together
    so that the tail is stable and perfectly centered.
    Does the tail stablized sleeve now slide over the tail freely and friction free"

    #113 4 years ago

    You'll want to put it all back together (and making sure the tail slides through the sleeve nicely),
    then you can jump it off of the Lock Relay like you had before. That way you'll be certain that
    juice is going to the motor tabs..

    #136 4 years ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    Will be surprised if you have gear issues.

    Yup, me likewise..
    Thickened grease and maybe needs an original armature plastic tip so it's more accurately
    aliened. I may be able to help you out on that..
    Not likely on score motors, but if a gear went, it's usually the center one of the three.
    There's a # on that gear and I have gotten a couple from Steve before, but not sure if
    he still sells them. He may only rebuilt the motors now..

    2 weeks later
    #166 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I turn the machine on and the coin mech coil activates.

    After I drop a coin, that coil releases, score motor turns, lock coil activates,then coin coil activates again.

    Those are the only 2 coils I can find locked on.

    That is all good..

    Quoted from RonSS:

    I have the casket open, I "drop a coin" and get a pulse of power to the motor wires. Reads possibly up to 120V. After that I get
    next to nothing.

    That has to be the ball lift motor circuitry. The other motors (score and pin reset) are 50V. All is okay. You'll want to first get those
    three sets of casket stack and switches straighten out..
    Getting a little tingle is not uncommon. I wouldn't worry about that for now.
    If you have another good score motor, I would install that one, and the Pin Reset Motor continuously rotating can be
    2 or 3 different problems, but most likely it's over riding the run-out switch.
    So if you install the good score motor (can first check it by jumping it off of the Lock Relay Coil), also I'd maybe first put a couple
    drops of light oil on the armature's tail, and straighten out the casket's 3 stack switches, then we'll check from there..

    #171 4 years ago

    Yea, it's a beautiful day here in Upstate also..
    On the Switch Stacks, No tabs are suppose to be touching.
    I can see the two top wires are correct (green and orange)..
    3rd from the top is yellow (can't make out that there's a tracer)
    4th from the top is yellow (can't make out that there's a trace)
    5th from the top is yellow with a blue tracer
    and the bottom tab (6th from the top) is a double yellow.
    (These two yellows are a little thicker gauge)
    Note: The Pin Reset motor is not suppose to be able to run while
    the casket is open. The orange wire touching the other tab may be
    why the Pin Reset is non-stop energizing. It may be giving it 110V
    If so, that's not good. I'd correct that right away..

    #177 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Some success today!

    The bottom two switches in that stack is only for the service light.
    As long as the two thicker gauge yellow wires are together, you should
    be good there for now..
    Of course the two top switches are for the ball lift circuit, and they need to
    be closed for the ball lift to energize. Also, there's a set of switches in the
    Game Over Relay that needs to be closed when the Game Over Relay is
    reset that's in the ball lift circuitry..
    On the Pin Rest motor, a couple drops of light weight oil on its armature tail
    is good to do, and because it's metal on metal, a couple drops on the pin reset's
    arms (where they're wrapped around the metal rods) I always do when restoring..

    2 weeks later
    #185 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Anyway, how do I remove/attach those suckers? Just spread the metal? Or is it more of a plastic rivet? If so, guidance appreciated.

    If you ordered them from Chris (St. Louis Ball Bowler), they're much easier than the original
    style. No more spreading the metal apart..
    What I did was took a hacksaw blade and slipped it inside the metal bracket and cut both sides
    of the bowtie's plastic shaft, then the old slips right out. The new bowties come with a metal pin
    and end clips. I first put one clip on one end, then line up the new bowtie, slip the pin in, and
    compress (pliers) the other end clip on..
    Back when, I've replaced them with the original style bow ties, and these new ones a so much
    easier. You just need to place it so that the upper and lower gears are lined (rotated) properly,
    then slip in the pin..
    Note: It sometimes helps lining up the bowtie with the upper and lower gears if you have another
    good pin unit on hand to compare it with..

    2 weeks later
    #205 4 years ago

    I might have seconds thoughts on commenting on this thread once again.
    I hadn't known multi-purpose would get this type of reaction!

    #209 4 years ago

    In the early 90s, I applied White Lightning grease (has no teflon) to the wiper boards.
    I didn't care for the results, so over the W.L., I applied a film of Remmington Gun Oil
    (contains teflon), and that did the trick, but once I leaned of the Super Lube Synthetic
    Grease, I used that ever since, but still apply the R.G.O.
    I use the S.L. only on the wiper boards, and on pivot joints (metal on metal) I go dry
    or on some R.G.O.
    I have/had ball bowlers out. All components with the S.L. and R.G.O. is long lasting.
    Unlike when I first got some of these machines in, no wear at all on the wipers or its
    boards..

    #218 4 years ago

    Ron, not only the switch that the coffin top closes, but a set of switches in the Game Over
    Relay is also in the Ball Lift Motor's circuitry..

    #232 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I'm not going back in unless it stops working.

    It won't stop working. If that wire was attached, I'm sure it would have worked with that old grease,
    but surely a plus applying the new..
    Did you put a couple of drops of light weight oil in those two oil tubes. I use Remmington Gun Oil, but
    I'm sure there's other with teflon..
    Also, you might want to put a couple of drops of light weight oil on the axles (or pivot points (?) on
    those washer type rollers that the ball rides on to travel off the belt on the track..
    BTW: Chris mentioned that Super Lube makes a light weight Teflon oil. I'm sure worth picking up..
    I'm sure the balls you're using don't bounce. They're really too hard. The balls should bounce off
    the rail, I'm guessing they just ride the rail once they make contact..

    #246 4 years ago

    That spring is to hold the cam back so the motor doesn't over ride..
    Had you put a couple of drops on the armature's tail? That tail that pulls
    in when the motor is energized. It usually makes a good size difference..

    #266 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    How would I adjust that?

    If able, bend the left wheel inward so they're not so far apart.
    I have bent the ball lift arms on the belt closer together so I was able
    to squeeze the wheels closer together..
    And yes you're right. If it was made so the ball went a little higher, it would
    make a difference. That's one of the things I like better about the Ballys..

    #295 4 years ago

    Ron, there's no polarity, so by rights it doesn't matter, but the wire with the lines
    running length ways with the wire goes to the receptacle.
    The wire that's plain (no lines) goes to the 115V fuse..
    The ground can be left alone, or can be attached to one of the Transformer's
    mounting bolts..
    Any other questions, shoot me an email, then I'll post here..

    2 weeks later
    #321 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jaymach1:

    Lots of hospital visits lately.

    I wish the Very Best for your Dad..

    1 month later
    #333 4 years ago

    Although the ball doesn't usually make it to the door, the ball lift door is suppose to have a padded cushion. If it's the original
    door, you should be able to see the black streaking outline..
    But it's a folded rubber with a protected canvas in front of it that the ball first (and usually only) makes contact with..

    #336 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jaymach1:

    This is what I currently have.

    I guess the padding on the door isn't a must, but whenever I restore a small ball bowler, I
    replace the door's padding. I make sure to contact cement rubber/padding that doesn't leave
    scuff marks on the balls.

    #339 4 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I've got some thin padding if yours ends up being too thick.

    Good idea. Too thick can sometimes hold up the balls. I'd say no more than a 1/4" thick..

    #351 4 years ago
    Quoted from MANTO1975:

    is it very hard to separate the lane into two sections and what is involved.

    When separating the lanes sections, there should be a board (like a 1 X 4) screwed up underneath the formica at
    the seam to join them together. It's best to take the 4 screws out of the front section. Best to do this first before
    taking out the 2 long jointing bolts..
    I know Ron mentioned the ball lift box separates, but to be truthful, it's not normal for the ball lift section to separate from
    the back lane section. I've actually seen it where it's not only screwed, but also glued on. Years back, I had to change
    one out, and it was a bitch. Had to pry it apart. I always leave the ball lift box and rear lane section as one..
    14 footers are actually easier to move than 11 footers. The longest piece after apart is 8 ft.
    When United first made the 14 footers, they made them one piece and they were not easy to transport to say the least.
    I had moved one before. Shortly after production, Vendors must have complained, and then United made the 14 footers a
    split alley. You don't see them often, but there are a few of the early one piece 14 ft. lane sections out there..

    #365 4 years ago
    Quoted from MANTO1975:

    could 4 adult men lift it onto a car trailer?

    Because of the ball lift box, the rear of the lane section is quite heavy, but for sure,
    you "Do Not" want to take of the ball lift box. You want to leave it as one piece.
    Even a 14 ft. "non-split" alley, four guys can easily enough lift and move the lane section
    once the head is off..
    Once you pick it up, you may want to start its own thread..

    3 weeks later
    #371 4 years ago
    Quoted from pacman11:

    Recently my big ball bowler when playing two player the 2 player only gets one throw and then goes back to player 1

    Let me guess. This is a riddle and the second player gets nothing but strikes (haha)..
    Anyways yes, this one's a little different. When playing all players, it's only the #2 Player that
    gets only one shot (of course without a strike being made)?..
    I don't see how it could be in the Player Step Up. The only thing seperating the players is the
    Strike/Spare Step Ups. It doesn't sound like the 1-10 Relay (in the Bank) is energizing, but sounds
    like the score motor is making a complete revolution instead of stopping 1/4 way in the 1st position..
    I'd maybe play all 6 Players a couple times to make certain it only happens with the 2nd Player.
    If so, I'd try taking off the 2nd Player's Strike/Spare Step Up wiper and check then if it gives a 2nd shot,
    but I would think chances are it happens to other players and the problem is in the 1st or 2nd Shot Relay
    in the Relay Bank..

    #373 4 years ago

    That's strange that it doesn't happen when playing a single player. I know some don't believe
    in coincidences, but my guess would be that either the 1st or 2nd Shot Relay has a magnetic
    relay coil plate, or the latch is worn. I remembering having worn plastics (what the switches
    stick in) and caused it not to latch, or at least not latch all the time. I'm guessing that it is a
    mechanical problem in the 1st or 2nd Shot Relay. I would carefully inspect those two Relays.
    If they seem to be latching solidly, I'd say it has a magnetic relay plate. By placing a small piece of
    paper between the coil(s) and plate(s) would answer if that is the issue..

    1 week later
    #380 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jaymach1:

    if it was made in 57 it has brown trim.

    And have a notion it extended into 1958, but nothing confirmed..
    Yes, Jason picked up on this Quick! Good Job..
    Now your Daughter has another classic to enjoy..

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mopar.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/united-bowling-alley-restoration-attempt-help-gladly-accepted?tu=mopar and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.