(Topic ID: 240940)

United Bowling Alley Restoration Attempt: Help Gladly Accepted!


By RonSS

7 months ago



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  • 373 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Mopar
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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    There are 373 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 8.
    #151 5 months ago

    I've emailed Steve at PBR, hoping he can help.

    #152 5 months ago

    Didn't want anyone to think I'm just waiting for something good to happen. Even though my score motor is funky there is still plenty to do!

    Almost done cleaning all the pins. Sorry Pin Up, you're second fiddle right now. Maybe 3rd.

    0606191754 (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #153 4 months ago

    OK, it's been a while. Lots of stuff going on this time of year.

    So, I was fortunate enough to have been gifted a "new" motor! Thank you Drain1!!!

    I did what any eager novice would do, and hooked it up with a jumper cable just to see if it would work. It did! Then it started smoking, badly!!! When I took it out I did not find any plastic tip. So maybe that was it?

    I tested the coil - 2.2 resistance. I tested my old coil, now removed from the machine as I knew it was the problem, and it tested at 0.8 resistance. So, that seems like problem solved right?

    After soldering up the new motor, I transferred the tip over to the "new" armature/commutator. Crossed my fingers and started it up. Worked! Motor spins, then I shot a dime in there and got some action. "bowled" a ball, and again the motor spun. Now I'm not certain what is actually supposed to be happening, and keep in mind my "casket" is up the whole time, so I'm physically pushing down on the leaf to run the motor.

    I made it up to frame 4 before things started to seem a little off. In addition, I thought I started smelling something cooking again, so I unplugged the unit and called it a night.

    Overall, I'm happy. Progress is being made. Still not right, but steps in the right direction I think. Video to follow in a day or two.

    #154 4 months ago

    Good update!

    #155 4 months ago

    I'm playing around by "bowling" only strikes.

    Good news:
    Score reel shows 300
    Frame lights moved properly up to 10 (I think - seems several bulbs out)
    10th frame behaved correctly
    "Shoot Again" light came on
    Only coil locked on is "lock relay" that I can tell

    Needs work:
    The strike indicator lit the first "X", but then skipped to 3 "X"s after second frame
    Burning smell around 8th frame. No smoke though. I "bowled" very quickly to get it shut off.

    No ball motor action. Could be I've got the casket open, but I'd think it would start when I press the leaf to the pin resetter, no?

    #156 4 months ago

    Here's the new action.

    #157 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Here's the new action.

    Much better!

    #158 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I'm playing around by "bowling" only strikes.
    Good news:
    Score reel shows 300
    Frame lights moved properly up to 10 (I think - seems several bulbs out)
    10th frame behaved correctly
    "Shoot Again" light came on
    Only coil locked on is "lock relay" that I can tell
    Needs work:
    The strike indicator lit the first "X", but then skipped to 3 "X"s after second frame
    Burning smell around 8th frame. No smoke though. I "bowled" very quickly to get it shut off.
    No ball motor action. Could be I've got the casket open, but I'd think it would start when I press the leaf to the pin resetter, no?

    Need to set up a camera inside to see if there is smoke from something burning or is it just the game warming up? I had an old EM game that I fixed and I remember the "burning smell" of old coils and diety contacts.

    #159 4 months ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Need to set up a camera inside to see if there is smoke from something burning or is it just the game warming up? I had an old EM game that I fixed and I remember the "burning smell" of old coils and dirty contacts.

    You really gotta listen for the sound of a locked on coil. A burning smell may be too late.

    #160 4 months ago

    Its fun to see the progress and learn a few things along the way. I have no space for a bowler but mihht have to make some!!

    #161 4 months ago

    I'm a little confused. When I tested my old motor coil the other day it read 0.8. Today, with clips, it reads over 4.

    My other coil, the one currently in the machine that eventually smokes, is reading 2.2 attached.

    Thoughts?

    #162 4 months ago

    Here's some more,

    Machine plugged in but switched off. I touch the score motor holding plate and feel a definite tingle.

    I'm guessing that's a short or ground issue.

    I'm going to be so much smarter when this is finished if I don't electrocute myself first!

    #163 4 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    You really gotta listen for the sound of a locked on coil. A burning smell may be too late.

    I turn the machine on and the coin mech coil activates.

    After I drop a coin, that coil releases, score motor turns, lock coil activates,then coin coil activates again.

    Those are the only 2 coils I can find locked on.

    #164 4 months ago

    Motor question:

    I have the casket open, I "drop a coin" and get a pulse of power to the motor wires. Reads possibly up to 120V. After that I get next to nothing.

    If I hand bowl a strike the dmm flashes around 20 something ever so briefly.

    When I use my finger to simulate the switch unit of the casket being closed, the pin resets endlessly, and still I only get a flash of juice. This time however, it's around 50V, which makes sense as the motor is 50V.

    So, I'm thinking the endless pin reset may be the thing to look toward?

    Edit: values seem more sporadic now.

    #165 4 months ago

    Maybe this will help?

    My switch unit was like this from the start, sans my pro solder work.

    0622191029 (resized).jpg0622191029a (resized).jpg0622191030 (resized).jpg0622191030_HDR (resized).jpg0622191030a (resized).jpg0622191031 (resized).jpg0622191032_HDR (resized).jpg
    #166 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I turn the machine on and the coin mech coil activates.

    After I drop a coin, that coil releases, score motor turns, lock coil activates,then coin coil activates again.

    Those are the only 2 coils I can find locked on.

    That is all good..

    Quoted from RonSS:

    I have the casket open, I "drop a coin" and get a pulse of power to the motor wires. Reads possibly up to 120V. After that I get
    next to nothing.

    That has to be the ball lift motor circuitry. The other motors (score and pin reset) are 50V. All is okay. You'll want to first get those
    three sets of casket stack and switches straighten out..
    Getting a little tingle is not uncommon. I wouldn't worry about that for now.
    If you have another good score motor, I would install that one, and the Pin Reset Motor continuously rotating can be
    2 or 3 different problems, but most likely it's over riding the run-out switch.
    So if you install the good score motor (can first check it by jumping it off of the Lock Relay Coil), also I'd maybe first put a couple
    drops of light oil on the armature's tail, and straighten out the casket's 3 stack switches, then we'll check from there..

    #167 4 months ago

    Well, don't know about the wiring, but you are obviously missing one switch stack screw & at least one of the screws holding the switch bracket is backed way off.

    #168 4 months ago

    Mopar,
    I currently have the "good" motor on, but in retrospect, perhaps I just needed the armature/commutator part. I'll mess around a little and switch them up to knock out some possibilities.

    If you (or anyone) can, maybe post a quick photo of your switch stack for reference?

    Dasvis,
    Yeah, I'm aware of the screw issues. Figured it didn't matter yet since I was open casket, but perhaps that stack screw is causing an issue. I'll try to find one and check that out.

    Thanks for the quick responses!

    #169 4 months ago

    Yeah, I could definitely use a "stock" photo of my stack switch the next time one of you opens yours up.

    I'm seeing two tabs bent together. Maybe that's design? I'm not certain.

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    #170 4 months ago

    No sense in wasting a day it's not raining in the northeast.

    Got the coin box gussied up in between other issues.

    Of course, my final coat saw the spray handle move and a few large drips happened. Such is life I guess.

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    #171 4 months ago

    Yea, it's a beautiful day here in Upstate also..
    On the Switch Stacks, No tabs are suppose to be touching.
    I can see the two top wires are correct (green and orange)..
    3rd from the top is yellow (can't make out that there's a tracer)
    4th from the top is yellow (can't make out that there's a trace)
    5th from the top is yellow with a blue tracer
    and the bottom tab (6th from the top) is a double yellow.
    (These two yellows are a little thicker gauge)
    Note: The Pin Reset motor is not suppose to be able to run while
    the casket is open. The orange wire touching the other tab may be
    why the Pin Reset is non-stop energizing. It may be giving it 110V
    If so, that's not good. I'd correct that right away..

    #172 4 months ago

    Yes, the pin reset only works when depress the switch, so that much is good.

    I'll go through those wires this weekend.

    I have a screw for back part of the stack, but it's not long enough. I'm guessing the spacers are all swelled up. I'll probably order some new ones and try to rebuild that switch a little.

    Thank you

    #173 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Yes, the pin reset only works when depress the switch, so that much is good.
    I'll go through those wires this weekend.
    I have a screw for back part of the stack, but it's not long enough. I'm guessing the spacers are all swelled up. I'll probably order some new ones and try to rebuild that switch a little.
    Thank you

    I have a bunch of switch stack machine screws if you know what length & thread pitch it is.

    #174 4 months ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    I have a bunch of switch stack machine screws if you know what length & thread pitch it is.

    RonSS I think I have the screws you may need.

    #175 4 months ago
    Quoted from fiberdude120:

    RonSS I think I have the screws you may need.

    Cool. I'll pm you my address.

    #176 4 months ago

    Some success today!

    After rereading Mopar's response I came to realize that I'm missing a bottom "tab" on my stack. As such I had the double yellow wires in all sorts of wrong places.

    I detached the touching tabs, and then got stuck. Ended up gerry-rigging the yellows.

    Hey, the reset works on cue! Now, it isn't resetting fully as the mech doesn't make a full turn, but with a little help it resets and goes again after another strike.

    Still no ball lift motor.

    I didn't really check score motor this round. Was so excited I forgot!

    Ok, so now I'll need a new stack. Dasvis, I'm sending you a pm now.

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    #177 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Some success today!

    The bottom two switches in that stack is only for the service light.
    As long as the two thicker gauge yellow wires are together, you should
    be good there for now..
    Of course the two top switches are for the ball lift circuit, and they need to
    be closed for the ball lift to energize. Also, there's a set of switches in the
    Game Over Relay that needs to be closed when the Game Over Relay is
    reset that's in the ball lift circuitry..
    On the Pin Rest motor, a couple drops of light weight oil on its armature tail
    is good to do, and because it's metal on metal, a couple drops on the pin reset's
    arms (where they're wrapped around the metal rods) I always do when restoring..

    #178 4 months ago

    Also- if you need to rebuild switches try Pinballresource. Steve sells individual blades and lifters and spacers and you can likely replace whats missing and use what you have if you ever need to. Just FYI. Parts are available even at the subcomponent level of individual switch blades and spacers etc.

    #179 4 months ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    The bottom two switches in that stack is only for the service light.
    As long as the two thicker gauge yellow wires are together, you should
    be good there for now..
    Of course the two top switches are for the ball lift circuit, and they need to
    be closed for the ball lift to energize. Also, there's a set of switches in the
    Game Over Relay that needs to be closed when the Game Over Relay is
    reset that's in the ball lift circuitry..
    On the Pin Rest motor, a couple drops of light weight oil on its armature tail
    is good to do, and because it's metal on metal, a couple drops on the pin reset's
    arms (where they're wrapped around the metal rods) I always do when restoring..

    Thanks, I'll try to get 'em a little more slippery and juice up that tip.

    #180 4 months ago
    Quoted from rufessor:

    Also- if you need to rebuild switches try Pinballresource. Steve sells individual blades and lifters and spacers and you can likely replace whats missing and use what you have if you ever need to. Just FYI. Parts are available even at the subcomponent level of individual switch blades and spacers etc.

    Yes, I read that thread by Frunch(?) about it. I'll have to revisit it. Thanks!

    #181 4 months ago

    Well, checked the motor out with the "new" wiring. Still getting warm and stinking up the joint. Guess I'll have to switch out some parts and try again. Probably not getting to it until after the first week of July though, getting out of town for a while.

    1 week later
    #182 4 months ago

    Welcome back,

    I just finished replacing the old, crusty dampners for the pins.

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    #183 4 months ago

    Pins back on, but I forgot to order my 3 bowties! Doh!

    Anyway, how do I remove/attach those suckers? Just spread the metal? Or is it more of a plastic rivet? If so, guidance appreciated.

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    #184 4 months ago

    And I just switched out the motor coil, no smoke or odor!

    I did have the pin deck off, so once I get that on I'll check again.

    Progress!

    #185 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Anyway, how do I remove/attach those suckers? Just spread the metal? Or is it more of a plastic rivet? If so, guidance appreciated.

    If you ordered them from Chris (St. Louis Ball Bowler), they're much easier than the original
    style. No more spreading the metal apart..
    What I did was took a hacksaw blade and slipped it inside the metal bracket and cut both sides
    of the bowtie's plastic shaft, then the old slips right out. The new bowties come with a metal pin
    and end clips. I first put one clip on one end, then line up the new bowtie, slip the pin in, and
    compress (pliers) the other end clip on..
    Back when, I've replaced them with the original style bow ties, and these new ones a so much
    easier. You just need to place it so that the upper and lower gears are lined (rotated) properly,
    then slip in the pin..
    Note: It sometimes helps lining up the bowtie with the upper and lower gears if you have another
    good pin unit on hand to compare it with..

    #186 4 months ago

    Thank you. I should be on that by end of the week I hope.

    #187 4 months ago

    Getting ready to order 3 bowties, WOW! $42 plus $20 shipping? My cart came to $62!!!

    Anybody have 3 they want to sell me? Or 3D print me?

    #188 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Getting ready to order 3 bowties, WOW! $42 plus $20 shipping? My cart came to $62!!!
    Anybody have 3 they want to sell me? Or 3D print me?

    It's a good product, not a large seller, they may have had to purchase a large amount of these that will take them years to move.

    Finish all your other repairs & buy these last. SLBB only works on these type of machines & I feel it's worth supporting them as they went out of their way to have hard to find products made (like bow ties & different sizes of balls that these machines use).

    #189 4 months ago

    I did read a post a few months back about someone 3D Printing them. You could try Rich Conti with PinballSalvage too. He might have some used ones sitting around. He does ball bowlers.

    http://pinballsalvage.com/

    #190 4 months ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    I did read a post a few months back about someone 3D Printing them. You could try Rich Conti with PinballSalvage too. He might have some used ones sitting around. He does ball bowlers.
    http://pinballsalvage.com/

    Thanks, I may look into that.

    #191 4 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    It's a good product, not a large seller, they may have had to purchase a large amount of these that will take them years to move.
    Finish all your other repairs & buy these last. SLBB only works on these type of machines & I feel it's worth supporting them as they went out of their way to have hard to find products made (like bow ties & different sizes of balls that these machines use).

    I think I may not have been clear in my post. I'm not really upset with the cost of the product, it's the $20 to ship 3 small pieces of nylon that is getting me. I'm being cheap, I know, but clearly the standard $6 would be OK.

    I'll give SLBB a call and see if I'm not choosing a correct option or something. It does seem like a great replacement, and I am appreciative of someone keeping the hobby alive.

    #192 4 months ago

    OK, spoke with Chris, all set. Seems for smaller parts the computer may generate some odd numbers for shipping.

    All good. Very helpful.

    #193 4 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    OK, spoke with Chris, all set. Seems for smaller parts the computer may generate some odd numbers for shipping.
    All good. Very helpful.

    Good to hear. Thank you for the update

    #194 3 months ago

    Got a package today.

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    1 week later
    #195 3 months ago

    Ron, no new posts how is your rebuild progressing?

    #196 3 months ago

    Well, , ,

    I acquired 2 "new" pins (1960/70s A-Go-Go and Liberty Bell) and they needed a quick cleaning and minor tinkering.

    I was also away for a week and it's been rough getting back in the groove.

    I'm also selling my Fleetwood bowler, so I've been playing that and just enjoying it while it's still around.

    I feel the United will come together quickly though now that the score motor seems spot on.

    Thanks for the push, and I mean that! Sometimes we need a little motivation.

    #197 3 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Well, , ,
    I acquired 2 "new" pins (1960/70s A-Go-Go and Liberty Bell) and they needed a quick cleaning and minor tinkering.
    I was also away for a week and it's been rough getting back in the groove.
    I'm also selling my Fleetwood bowler, so I've been playing that and just enjoying it while it's still around.
    I feel the United will come together quickly though now that the score motor seems spot on.
    Thanks for the push, and I mean that! Sometimes we need a little motivation.

    Trust me I know all about needing some motivation.

    #198 3 months ago

    I personally enjoy doing these big projects a little at a time. I'm still in the midst of my score reel cleaning and rebuilding

    #199 3 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    I personally enjoy doing these big projects a little at a time. I'm still in the midst of my score reel cleaning and rebuilding

    Those are 2 very dirty words in my vocabulary right now. #SCORE REELS
    Top bad we don't live closer to each other maybe it wouldn't be such a lousy job if we had a cleaning party

    #200 3 months ago

    Ok, so started to get back to it.

    Replaced the Pin deck, started her up, and noticed the frame unit isn't resetting. It moves forward fine, so probably just needs a quick adjustment or better lube/spring. Was working fine before of course.

    I'll take a better look soon.

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