(Topic ID: 240940)

United Bowling Alley Restoration Attempt: Help Gladly Accepted!


By RonSS

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 373 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 days ago by Mopar
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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    There are 373 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 8.
    #101 5 months ago

    So, I did this, , ,

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    #102 5 months ago

    Cleaned it up, was careful to watch for parts, but it doesn't seem to have a spring, unless it's crushed or sideways. Tough to see inside.

    I was able to push (hard) the nub inside before cleaning, but after cleaning it still isn't showing outside, hence the spring thing.

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    #103 5 months ago

    I'm not sure what voltage you should have but it seems to low to me. Look at the schematic, for my machine it shows the transformer outputs 6v & 50v ac voltage.

    #104 5 months ago

    Yup, that motor is 50V.. Over that tip of the armature is where the funnel type small plastic
    goes over, then a spring behind the plastic.
    If you take that 5/16" (takes a 1/2" wrench) nut off that's on the other side of the motor,
    you should find the plastic type funnel along with the spring..
    When putting back together (after freeing up the armature tail so the it freely slides in its
    sleeve) I would put the nut on last by first placing the small white funnel over the end tip of
    the armature, then the spring, the the nut..
    Lets first make certain the funnel and spring are there..

    #105 5 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    I'm not sure what voltage you should have but it seems to low to me. Look at the schematic, for my machine it shows the transformer outputs 6v & 50v ac voltage.

    That's what I was thinking too. Only thing I could come up with was nothing was sending that power due to a switch or something.

    Of course, with this armature issue, who knows?

    One step at a time I guess.

    #106 5 months ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    Yup, that motor is 50V.. Over that tip of the armature is where the funnel type small plastic
    goes over, then a spring behind the plastic.
    If you take that 5/16" (takes a 1/2" wrench) nut off that's on the other side of the motor,
    you should find the plastic type funnel along with the spring..
    When putting back together (after freeing up the armature tail so the it freely slides in its
    sleeve) I would put the nut on last by first placing the small white funnel over the end tip of
    the armature, then the spring, the the nut..
    Lets first make certain the funnel and spring are there..

    Yup, I'm hoping to find that sucker tomorrow.

    If I keep finding impossibilities, the remaining must be the possible culprits.

    #107 5 months ago

    Opened her up, found the spring and plastic tip. Cleaned everything, then while putting back together somehow lost the plastic tip!

    #108 5 months ago

    So, I'm going to cut off the tip of this air attachment and try to substitute.

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    #109 5 months ago

    Ok, all back together, but still no "spring".

    It doesn't pop in and out.

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    #110 5 months ago

    Vertically it wouldn't, but horisontal it should, but should be totally together
    so that the tail is stable and perfectly centered.
    Does the tail stablized sleeve now slide over the tail freely and friction free"

    #111 5 months ago

    Seems to. Doesn't pop out at all if I push on it horizontally. Spins freely. Though if it comes out 1/8 of an inch might have a little trouble getting back sometimes.

    #112 5 months ago

    I should mention that's still apart, I haven't reassembled everything yet.

    #113 5 months ago

    You'll want to put it all back together (and making sure the tail slides through the sleeve nicely),
    then you can jump it off of the Lock Relay like you had before. That way you'll be certain that
    juice is going to the motor tabs..

    #114 5 months ago

    Put it back together, wouldn't turn.

    I'll have to take it apart and try again.

    I understand what you're talking about now though.

    #115 5 months ago

    Ugh, somehow lost my little red nub. Honestly, I don't know where this thing went either.

    Going to try this next. I'll take the fork off.

    Nice snug fit.

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    #116 5 months ago

    You should just donate this to someone close that might appreciate it.

    #117 5 months ago
    Quoted from fiberdude120:

    You should just donate this to someone close that might appreciate it.

    I need to have a bowling night soon! You bring the beer

    #118 5 months ago

    Scoring motor giving me grief. No progress as of late.

    I'm searching for a #5120 motor if anyone knows of one.

    I'm learning a lot though, so that's cool.

    #119 5 months ago

    Did you verify your transformer is putting out 50v?

    #120 5 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    Did you verify your transformer is putting out 50v?

    No, not yet, but I did verify something is as I took a nice jolt yesterday!

    How would I check that with my dmm? Black to a ground, red to an "out" lug?

    Would anything need to be engaged or triggered?

    #121 5 months ago

    Post a pic of the transformer showing the connections

    #122 5 months ago

    If you enlarge this you get a pretty clear pic. Lower left corner.

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    #123 5 months ago

    The top 3 wires are the output (low voltage). On mine they are marked 50,6,C. C is common. Carefully put a lead on C & 50 - you should see about 50v. This is a non regulated supply so it can vary a bit. Stay clear of the bottom terminals as this is where the 110v comes in.

    #124 5 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    The top 3 wires are the output (low voltage). On mine they are marked 50,6,C. C is common. Carefully put a lead on C & 50 - you should see about 50v. This is a non regulated supply so it can vary a bit. Stay clear of the bottom terminals as this is where the 110v comes in.

    Thanks!

    I'm good.
    52 and 6.5 volts.

    #125 5 months ago

    What!

    NO IDEA what just happened, but I was taking a few pins off to clean, and decided to plug her in again. The scoring motor started turning! Very slowly, but made it through all the way!

    I'm so confused...

    #126 5 months ago

    Just "bowled" 2 balls with my hand. Registered a strike, then went to 2nd player. Again, really struggling,but got there!

    #127 5 months ago


    Here's the motor in real time after "ball 2"

    #128 5 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    What!
    NO IDEA what just happened, but I was taking a few pins off to clean, and decided to plug her in again. The scoring motor started turning! Very slowly, but made it through all the way!
    I'm so confused...

    Hmm, just a guess, but the gearbox grease may be solidified. - Or possibly a drop of tri-flow on the shaft bushings might help. Just a drop, a little goes a long way.

    #129 5 months ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Hmm, just a guess, but the gearbox grease may be solidified. - Or possibly a drop of tri-flow on the shaft bushings might help. Just a drop, a little goes a long way.

    I'm pretty puzzled by this. Seems to turn fine by hand. If the grease was solidified I would think even hand cranking would be an issue.

    When I had it apart, I had the feeling the gear and slotted shaft weren't playing well together. Seemed to turn fine without the armature.

    I'm inclined to say the gears are somewhat stripped perhaps. Having a hard time matching up.

    #130 5 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I'm pretty puzzled by this. Seems to turn fine by hand. If the grease was solidified I would think even hand cranking would be an issue.
    When I had it apart, I had the feeling the gear and slotted shaft weren't playing well together. Seemed to turn fine without the armature.
    I'm inclined to say the gears are somewhat stripped perhaps. Having a hard time matching up.

    Open it back up and take pics so we can see. Please

    #131 5 months ago
    Quoted from eyeamred2u:

    Open it back up and take pics so we can see. Please

    I never cracked the case. I've only got these on hand. I can see the gear teeth spin without the armature, but the armature won't spin when I spin the shaft nor will the gear teeth turn the gear shaft when "opened" and trying to spin the armature.

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    #132 5 months ago

    Watching your video, I can see slippage. Looks to me, the internal gears are worn, or binding. I would drill open that case.

    #133 5 months ago

    Sounds like a plan. Any idea if there are any replacement gears available"new"? I couldn't find the motor listed anywhere.

    #134 5 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Sounds like a plan. Any idea if there are any replacement gears available"new"? I couldn't find the motor listed anywhere.

    No, but Steve at PBR can rebuild them.

    #135 5 months ago

    I bet once you crack it open you will know your answers...I don't think they are that complicated to rebuild. My gut tells me it just going to need degunked and cleaned thoroughly. Will be surprised if you have gear issues. Looking forward to seeing the pictures of the cracked open box!

    #136 5 months ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    Will be surprised if you have gear issues.

    Yup, me likewise..
    Thickened grease and maybe needs an original armature plastic tip so it's more accurately
    aliened. I may be able to help you out on that..
    Not likely on score motors, but if a gear went, it's usually the center one of the three.
    There's a # on that gear and I have gotten a couple from Steve before, but not sure if
    he still sells them. He may only rebuilt the motors now..

    #137 5 months ago

    Also...Not sure if you found this page on Clay's site but his stuff is really good.

    http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor

    #138 5 months ago

    I had seen that a long time ago and forgot all about it! Thank you!

    Well, I hope your hunches are correct.

    #139 5 months ago

    Living my ball bowler dreams vicariously thru you -----

    #140 5 months ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Living my ball bowler dreams vicariously thru you -----

    Hahaha!!

    Well,check this out, I found my little white plastic piece! Inside the gear box, along with my other first attempt at a replacement. So I had 2 foreign objects inside.

    Here's what I've got folks.

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    #141 5 months ago

    Ok, all cleaned, lubed, and back together.

    Didn't have any nuts/bolts that fit but found some pop rivets. Not exactly pro, but seems secure.
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    #142 5 months ago

    Huh, back to motor not turning, but does spin freely by hand.

    #143 5 months ago

    Wow, hopefully it will work now. Gears all look nice.

    #144 5 months ago

    Must be an electric thing. Some signal not being sent?

    #145 5 months ago

    Is there a coil/winding there? What is the Ohm value? maybe the coil winding jas a break in it, drawing higj resistance, hence the armature will not spin fast enough.

    #146 5 months ago

    I was looking at your pics and I think your commutator is bad. I believe the bars are all worn together instead of having spaces. This I believe is creating resistance. I would call up Steve at PBR or another Bowler authority and confirm this.

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    #147 5 months ago

    Wow! Eagle eyes!

    Well, I think I'll give Steve a call. Heck, I live 30 minutes from him, I could have him inspect it!

    Thanks!

    #148 5 months ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Wow! Eagle eyes!
    Well, I think I'll give Steve a call. Heck, I live 30 minutes from him, I could have him inspect it!
    Thanks!

    Glad to help. Without those bars, movement will not happen. I hope Steve can help, or point you in the right direction for a fix.

    #149 5 months ago

    Take a small flat blade screwdriver & clean out the grooves. Worth a try

    #150 5 months ago
    Quoted from cad-kid:

    Take a small flat blade screwdriver & clean out the grooves. Worth a try

    Commutator will work, but may not be enough to spin at proper speed. The bars are usually a set thickness to repel the magnetism

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