(Topic ID: 240940)

United Bowling Alley Restoration Attempt: Help Gladly Accepted!


By RonSS

61 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 152 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by RonSS
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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    There are 152 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
    #51 35 days ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Ok, let me know.
    Hey, why did you sell your Taxi? One of my Grail pins!

    Pm sent.

    #52 31 days ago

    Ok gurus, I've cleaned my last back box stepper. Everything moves freely and retracts quickly. Problem is, it won't step up. It resets fine, but when I try to step it doesn't rotate the sprocket.

    Here are the pics, maybe you'll catch what I'm missing. This is the lower right unit in the back box.

    In the pic with my finger, this is the position I can manually move the stepper.

    Thoughts?

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    #53 31 days ago

    Aha, spring issue. Had 'em messed up. This configuration is working better.

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    #54 30 days ago

    Moved on to the ball lift box.

    Going to have fix the bottom, but figured I take a look at things in the open while I have the opportunity.

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    #55 30 days ago

    So, how do I remove the lower roller? It spins freely, maybe I should just leave it?

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    #56 30 days ago

    Bought a piece of mat at a big box store for my rubber. 4 × 3 foot piece ran me about$18. Should have a bunch left over.

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    #57 30 days ago

    That was a snap!

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    #58 26 days ago

    A little before and after inside the coffin.

    Got 6 strikes/spares flowing nicely.

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    #59 26 days ago

    Ron, one thing that I've found out, and I'd like to post it here because I feel that it's fairly important,
    which is, after a while after the ball bowlers were first distributed (1956), there was a problem where
    the Strike/Spare Step-Up-Units wiper board would begin warping away from the wiper because of the
    pressure the wiper was applying upon it. I've seen a few things that was placed between the back of
    the wiper board and frame to solve this problem, but what's easiest for me is cutting 1/2" X 1/2" strips
    of wood 5" long. That's what I place behind all wiper boards as you'll see in the pic. I've seen half cut
    small like rubber balls placed behind the board on multiple machines, so I'm pretty sure that's what United
    themselves came up with for the solution..
    Now that the wiper board was stiffened up, what eventually happened next is the the wiper would begin
    warping away from the board. In the late 50s, United corrected this by stiffening up the wipers with metal,
    but of course that didn't help the earlier machines that were already out with the wipers that didn't have
    the reinforced metal, so what I do is cut 1/16" thick 5/8" X 3" flat stock (I'm sure 1/2" X 3" would be fine)
    and wrap then heat electrical tape about an inch up on one end. I heat and slightly melt the tape to keep it
    from ever unwrapping. Note: Before I put on the tape, I drill a 1/4" hole on one end. When attaching to the
    wiper as you'll see in the pic, leaving off the lock washer is not a problem. I had machines out since the mid 90s,
    and never had any come loose. This can and does make a difference. Keeps the X and / lights from dimming,
    and keeps the units responding properly. Here's a couple of pics on what I'm talking about..

    IMG_1507 (resized).JPGIMG_1510 (resized).JPG
    #60 26 days ago

    BTW, in the last pic you'll see the other Strike/Spare Unit has a wiper with a piece of metal to
    stiffen it up. Not many do but this machine came with them and it's the same principle but doesn't
    look like the metaled ones United came up with in the late 50s and early 60s while still using this
    type of Strike/Spare Step-Ups. This machine is a 1957, and years back I picked it up from the
    operator. Perhaps after complaining, United sent them these maybe kinda sample reinforced wipers.
    To my surprise, all six Step-Ups came with the reinforced wipers, and I put a regular non-reinforced
    wiper on the one to show and take a pic so I didn't have to explain about the metal on the wiper
    but "Haha", I had to anyways seeing that the other Step-Up's reinforced wiper was in the pic.
    I maybe should save these wipers. Might kinda be proto type. They're made clean enough so it doesn't
    seem the vendor had made them, but yet not as clean as United's later known ones..
    Anyways, had to write this to explain the wiper shown on the other Step-Up..

    #61 26 days ago

    Great progress so far love following these threads.

    #62 26 days ago

    Thanks for that explanation Mopar, I had seen this block of wood trick before either from you or Mickey T., but now this makes even more sense! I did notice mine looked pretty warped, so here is my question: Should I just leave it be and see if it runs fine, or go ahead and insert the wood now then correct the wipers if needed?

    #63 26 days ago
    Quoted from pacman11:

    Great progress so far love following these threads.

    I'm just happy I'm actually doing it! So many times I'm watching and wishing, this time I said "screw it" and just jumped in. It's a blast! I'm really hoping the final product turns out nice. Thanks for following!

    #64 26 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Should I just leave it be and see if it runs fine, or go ahead and insert the wood now then correct the wipers if needed?

    I'd at least put the wood in Ron. That alone does make a difference, and down the road if needed,
    I can send you the flat stock. With a table saw, cutting a strip 1/2" X 1/2" then cutting 5" pieces
    from the strip goes pretty quick..
    I went through quite a few bowlers for Mickey, and always put in the wood and metal over the wipers.
    I got the idea of the wood from a bowler I long ago got in, but I did think of the metal when the Strike/
    Spare Units on a machine that I had out wasn't responding correctly. Found out the wiper was making
    minimum contact because of it's warping. Haven't had a problem since after adding the metal pieces..
    Your United is coming along nicely. Maybe you should share the C.C. in action on here..

    #65 25 days ago

    Went outside to cut wood and got distracted! Decided to clean a Pin, just because. Then decided to "fix" the broken pin before it got damaged beyond repair.

    Here's my crazy glue hack job.

    Dirty vs clean, cracked but clean, hacked and clean.

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    #66 25 days ago

    Ok,back on target. Now I feel better.

    Taking Mopar's advice and adding wood. Steppers moving nicely.

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    #67 25 days ago

    We love our bowler!

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    #68 25 days ago
    Quoted from pacman11:

    We love our bowler![quoted image]

    Nice! What manufacturer and model?

    #69 25 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Nice! What manufacturer and model?

    Super Sonic Chicago Coin..

    #70 22 days ago

    Well, this is really starting to come together! 0524190920_HDR (resized).jpg
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    But sometimes I feel as though I just can't catch a break.
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    (Crickets)

    So close to powering up now.

    #71 22 days ago

    Always replace power cords!

    #72 22 days ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Always replace power cords!

    This was a replacement by previous owner. I wasn't happy with the job done anyway but was really getting anxious to just give her whirl tonight. Turns out two of my own doings - 45 angle brace too large and an anchor strip I made about 3 inches too wide - were the ultimate culprits. I would have hacked this cord together if everything else fit properly.

    I decided it was a good time to quit before I made more mistakes in haste.

    #73 22 days ago

    I'm working on the pin hood on the side. Had a new curved piece made by a friend of mine, but when I mocked up the hood I realized I didn't have the long cylinder spacer that accepts the screw from the top. Any idea on where I can get this part? Or, if somewhere out there has dimensions I could fab it up.

    Thanks.

    #74 21 days ago

    SLBB sells them. Not cheap but i figured the time I saved myself from fabricating one was worth it. Plus the one I bought fits perfectly.

    #75 21 days ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    SLBB sells them. Not cheap but i figured the time I saved myself from fabricating one was worth it. Plus the one I bought fits perfectly.

    Great, thank you!

    #76 21 days ago

    Ok, tested a power run today. I've got lights, and when I drop a dime the sound/hum changes a little, but nothing else happens.

    I push the red start, nothing.

    Inside the coffin this switch unit was purchased like this, minus the black, that was because there is juice running

    I'm guessing this was "set to free play"?

    Thoughts? Seems as though I should reconnect and adjust.

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    #77 21 days ago

    Just found 5th/6th player reset relays locked on. Other players ok.

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    #78 21 days ago

    Score reel switches not showing zero position?

    #79 21 days ago

    I had set all to zero when I cleaned them, using the stepper to indicate zero, so I think they are ok.

    Just used dmm, that coil reads around 3-5 while the other two are reading around 20.

    #80 21 days ago

    The plot thickens?

    I removed the coil from the machine, now it's reading around 20 also.

    #81 20 days ago

    Replaced a few missing lamp sockets while I wallowed in sorrow over the machine not just working first try.

    The originals are single terminal which is apparently out of stock everywhere, so I tied the wire to both terminals. Hope that was right. Pay no attention to my master solder skills
    0527191550 (resized).jpg

    #82 20 days ago

    Hmmm, just noticed all the dimes go directly to the coin return. Even when casket open and feeding through inside coin shute.

    #83 20 days ago

    Ok, just found this. Time to solder, , , , , again.

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    #84 19 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Ok, just found this. Time to solder, , , , , again.[quoted image]

    Good luck

    #85 19 days ago

    Ok, so the game still won't start. Tried to avoid it, but had to go to the bank relay. Seeing as though the "start" relay is nearly unreachable I had to "remove" the bank. That basically means I've gained 3 inches of work area, but it did show me this.

    First pic in "up" position, 2nd in "down" position
    Pretty certain this contact wants to touch something!

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    #86 19 days ago

    Yep, your right. When in the down pos can the top blade go lower? I'm not sure which blade you need to "reform"

    #87 19 days ago

    Yeah, I fixed it up, but unfortunately it didn't fix the issue.

    #88 19 days ago

    Has your score motor run yet? I would think that should be turning to get things reset. Try putting 1 score reel in a position other than zero.

    #89 19 days ago

    I have advanced some reels through relays, and they reset to zero when I manually rotate the score motor fingers, but no, the motor is not even buzzing.

    I'm wondering if the motor is not getting juice.

    All fuses check out ok after being pulled.

    #90 18 days ago

    Time to break out the schematic & meter

    #91 17 days ago

    Messing around tonight. I've got pretty dim deck lights, but I'm able to simulate parts of a game by turning the score motor by hand. Pins are lifting, reels are turning, strike and spare lights are operational.

    My "lock relay" is engaged, is that normal?

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    #92 17 days ago

    I'll also assume this jump is supposed to be here.

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    #93 17 days ago

    Do you have a manual and schematic for your bowler? if not you might want to think about getting one. if you cannot find them online you can check www.pbresource.com or www.stl-bb.com. I know on my chicago coin bowler I have a game reset coil I can manually reset and an end of game switch stack that I would check if I had your issues. But without a schematic and voltage meter I'd only be guessing at what right looks like. Also a schematic will tell you if things like that jumper belongs there.

    #94 17 days ago
    Quoted from T2F14:

    Do you have a manual and schematic for your bowler? if not you might want to think about getting one. if you cannot find them online you can check www.pbresource.com or www.stl-bb.com. I know on my chicago coin bowler I have a game reset coil I can manually reset and an end of game switch stack that I would check if I had your issues. But without a schematic and voltage meter I'd only be guessing at what right looks like. Also a schematic will tell you if things like that jumper belongs there.

    I've got a huge tattered schematic. I don't see the bank relay on it though.

    I'll check PBResource though.

    Thanks!

    #95 17 days ago

    Ron, once started up, the Lock Relay should remain energized.
    That jumper from one bank relay to the other is suppose to be there.
    I'll get back to you tomorrow..

    #96 17 days ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    Ron, once started up, the Lock Relay should remain energized.
    That jumper from one bank relay to the other is suppose to be there.
    I'll get back to you tomorrow..

    Ok, well that's good then, both of those things are correct.

    This sure would be easier with a working model next to it! But I'm learning a ton.

    I'm going to test some voltage in, voltage out later today I think. I feel as though my score motor is just not getting power, maybe I can find a culprit by doing that. The super dim lights have me wondering. Of course I'll continue to check switches and solder joints as well.

    As I start to understand how this thing works I "should" be making better decisions in finding the issue.

    Thanks all.

    #97 17 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I've got a huge tattered schematic. I don't see the bank relay on it though.
    Thanks!

    The bank relay is on the schematic but here's the issue - it's all blown apart into it's individual switches. So if I was troubleshooting where power from the "1st shot" relay coil comes from - I would look at the schematic for that coil and see what switch actuates it and look for notations that could lead me to other parts of the schematic.

    To find out what the switches for that relay do is more difficult because on the schematic there would be a switch labeled "1st shot" for every set of contacts on that relay - at least 2 in this example.

    When I look at the score motor for my United (1962 Embassy) - it connects to one leg of the 50V supply (black) - that is protected by a fuse. Then on the other end I see the score motor adjustment jack (cuts power to the score motor for testing), then the power can come from 2 branches with multiple switches on it. Those all lead to the other leg of the 50v supply (yellow).

    That's just a basic start on how to interpret the schematic.

    #98 17 days ago

    Ahhh, ok. I was looking for a blown up version of the bank but didn't see it.

    Thank you.

    #99 17 days ago

    While the Lock Relay is energized, if you jump a wire from the Lock Relay's lug furthest from you (the one closest
    to the 1st Players Strike/Spare Unit), and the other end to the Score Motor's lug closest to you (Not the black
    wire), the score motor should energize.
    If not, on the back side of the score motor (near the lug that you jumped), is the armature's tail. With a small
    screwdriver, you can check if that tail moves in and out fairly freely. It's not a bad idea to first put a little spray on
    the tail to get it free. If all fails, the motor should come out a be inspected. Perhaps one of the end of its windings
    came loose from its solder lug..

    #100 16 days ago

    Tried the jump with lock energized, no go.
    I couldn't really see the tail you were talking about so I'll "remove" it and twist it around a little.

    I used the dmm to test some power ratings. The fuse holder seems ok. Same values in as out for each. Transformer seems ok, highest rating was around 14 or so, but all terminals had at least 3v - 14v.

    Score motor: both lugs read around 2.7v. Is that right? I'll check my schematic, it should be there right?

    My pin deck lights are getting roughly 3v.
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