No ranking system in anything in the world is perfect...other than pinside top 100 of course.

Can you truly say a player that beats of bunch of jamronees over the weekend in the sticks is as good as someone that plays against top competition?

Every event will have a different value based on format, number of players, players ranking/ratings, etc.

All you can really do is try and build your local scene or travel.

The rankings dont really matter until your in the top 100. Its arbitrary kinda like the pinside top 100

Focus on your instate ranking each year to make state. win state and go to nationals. or travel to big events and beat everyone. the best players are going to win the big events 99% of the time. dont stress on your world ranking unless you have a goal and plan to be a top player and are traveling to all the big events.

Why? They get their fair shake. If your state is "easy," then win the state champ and move on to nationals. Head to Papa and Pinburgh and other big events.
Competitive pinball is a sport, and like other sports it involves traveling and a bunch of shit that isn't "easy" on people; just the way it is.

Beer leagues with mostly unranked players is not where you're going to get your points. Bigger events, and travel, and PLAYING WELL are going to start to normalize things out. As your ranking goes up, the points that your leagues are going to capture will increase. But if you're not playing against established players in the IFPA, how in the world could you figure out how "good" they are?

And it goes both ways. You could have 10 players in a beer league who are some of the best in the world, and if they just play in their microcosm, they'll never climb the rankings no matter how good they are. The "weighting" comes into play at Pinburgh, TPF, and the larger events all around the country. If two of those ten players go to a big event and do well (as they should, they're the best) they're going to come home with a combined 100 points or whatever. The next beer league just got a little more IFPA point heavy. Rinse. Repeat.

You can't arbitrarily weigh something without having something to weigh it against.

Interesting discussion! Our town is just starting to get rolling on the IFPA train. It has been nice to just get more qualified players and waaaaay more events.

?

Says the guy with 20 nice pins in his collection!

To what ends? Eventually you will actually have to compete. Either you can play or you cann't. Buying your points won't change your abilities.

I don't do tournaments but it sounds like the electoral college of pinball.

Not sure I'd call most of the top 100 wealthy people. I know a lot of people who 'slum it' when traveling to tourneys.

Entitlement? Not sure how that is even relevant here.

Name another game, hobby, sport, pastime that doesn't require an investment of time, travel, and $ to be at the top.

Pinball is one of the most egalitarian competitions out there. You don't need to buy equipment, you don't need to try out, heck, you don't even have to be good to play with the world's best. You just show up, play your entrance fee and go for it.

Man you did get pissed off at leagues last night, didn't you.

Wow, didn't see that coming!

No, soon you'll have to play a lot to get in to the top 100. Big events too, with top peeps!

People in larger citites with larger

The charity loophole was closed years ago. Just need to build up and get attendance in smaller cities or regions. We have had a bigger issue in our state with a particular location cheating, or as they phrased it to me "manipulating" the rules for the sake of their players. The bottom line is it's an arbitrary ranking system, those players eventually have to play the best and beat them if they want to really have that sense of accomplishment. As Ric Flair said "To be the man, you got to beat the man, Wooo!"

Insert image of Keith Elwin here and you pretty much ain't shit until you can take him down...which I don't really see anyone doing any time soon.

ricflair (resized).png

Yeah, all competitive sports eventually hit a paywall where you have to be able to afford to take time off and travel to major competitions. Even high level video game competitions have this, and most of them could be played at home. Many of the elite players are sponsored because they regularly have to travel the world for major competitions.

I don't know what you mean by charitable giving to game the system (I think you might be confused about how HERB style qualification works? Or maybe you mean creating fraudulent tournaments with fake players?)

Sure you can enter a bunch of tournaments and get a token amount of points, but they don't matter. Only your best 20 events count towards your ranking, and they decline in value over years.

The simple fact is, if you want to be high in the rankings you have to show up and do well in the handful of major pinball tournaments.

Doing it at Pinburgh is mostly what I was thinking. I don't think there is a better test of all-around pinball skill than that tournament.

Tournaments have players capped for practical reasons. You can only do a tournament in a reasonable amount of time based on having X amount of machines.

Leagues aren't worth much points in general, so no one really cares about that low level cheating.

Well no offense but we don't...and I say "we" becasue Hilton isn't here anymore

But seriously, email them and nudge this thread, or wait for them to respond. They're more than happy to explain in excruciating detail all the ins and outs of it.

On a side note, did you hear these bastards are charging $1 now?!?

First off, I love the IFPA and what they are doing. I have a lot of respect for what Josh and those guys are doing for pinball and it's exposure. Who knows where pinball would be current day without efforts like theirs. That said, the faster you forget about "playing in the top 100" the happier you will be IMHO. I used to care a lot about my ranking, but I finally realized it really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things outside of being in the top handful of players. I can't travel to every big event and I can't play 5 events a week here locally, it just isn't in the cards for me, so years ago I stopped caring about my ranking and trying to keep up with the Joneses and had a much more pleasant time after that. There are so many players in and around the top 200 that are there mainly because they travel to numerous bigger events where finishing 65th will net you more points than finishing 1st in a more local tournament. Plus all the tournaments that artificially inflate IFPA points with ridiculous formats like 1 ball qualifying on 12 machines and/or simultaneous play to increase the number of games played and point values for events that the rankings in that range can lose meaning anyway.

Beyond your IFPA ranking, there is also a efficiency percentage ranking. This number can be more accurate for players who don't travel and play in everything, since it is calculated by the total WPPR points earned by a player divided by the total WPPR points available for 1st place at any IFPA endorsed event. Even if you can't play in everything, do well in events you do play in, and your eff percentage will be lower. I have 2 small kids now so I don't play in events anymore like I used to, minus the Stern launch parties I host when a new game comes out. Because of that my overall IFPA ranking is in the 1400's now down from my lowest days in the 200's, but my efficiency percentage has been historically around 35th and it is 17th now so I know I am playing well when I do play. In the grand scheme of things for me I've had a lot of fun. Over my entire competitive career I have played in over 160 events, won the SCS, finished 1st in better than 1 out of every 4 events I played in (including national events), had a lot of fun along the way, won a lot of money and got to play with, hang with and even beat some of the best players there are...so I'm happy no matter what my IFPA ranking is...and that's what is important to me.

Ya okay, lots of 65th placements here lol... I wouldn't diminish the effort it takes to travel to events and play well and comparing it to the local scene, for any of the major events it is next level competition. The top 200 players are no joke and the top 25 players are unbelievable, the rankings are pretty damn accurate in my opinion.

Your right about one thing IFPA ranking is only one measure there are a ton of local players, non travel players that can beat anyone in any given time, that is what makes the game so great is that even the best can sometimes be beaten.

pasted_image (resized).png

I wasn't using anyone as an example and my statements certainly don't apply to everyone, but I will definitely stand by my comment that is easier to finish 65th at a bigger event, than it is to win many local tournaments, especially if you have a solid local player base and since many bigger events are pump and dump formats where if at first you don't succeed...spend, spend again. Even though I don't travel to events or put a lot of importance in my IFPA ranking anymore, I have a lots of friends that still do and I have a great deal of respect for them. I know first hand it's not easy and that it takes a great deal of effort, time and money to travel to compete. I was just saying that if the OP isn't willing to put in the effort towards those things, then the faster he forgets about "playing in the top 100" and instead focuses on how he performs in what he does play in, then the happier he will be.

I can agree with that 100%. My local group consist of Colin McAlpine, Steven Bowden, Robert Byers, Mark Meserve just to name a few so winning an event here is WAY harder than finishing top 32 at something like TPF. I've qualified for A finals 4 years straight at TPF but I can't think of but 1 local event where even 3 of the 4 players I mentioned showed up and I won it. Some places are even worse. Try winning league in Pittsburgh for instance

You get 9.25 points for finishing 32nd at TPF, if your league consists of all of these great players then that would be the same as probably finishing 4th or 5th on a league night if it does a 100% TGP calculation, if it doesn't then you are not comparing apples to apples. TPF had 10 of the top 50 players, a total of 28 of the top 250 players and a total of 44 of the top 500 players. So ya finishing 32nd out of 158 players in a field that strong compared to a 4th place in a tough league seems pretty reasonable to me. I agree that some leagues are tougher then other and it may not necessarily translate but for the most part I think it translates well.

I'm sorry, did I say anything about fair? I just said I agree that it's easier to finish decent at a major tournament than to finish first in some leagues....

I.e... the point I agreed to was very valid depending on location. Had zero to do with point values.

Point taken...

Here's where the top 100 are from:

http://www.ifpapinball.com/rankings/overall.php

And I think you're going to have pockets of people that are both better players AND higher ranked players. That's not mutually exclusive. Cleveland had GOOD players 5 years ago, but now we have GREAT players because our scene has grown tremendously. As you have people who started 5 years ago are now 5 years exposed to competition, everyone tends to get better and better. If you have a thriving scene, and participate in it significantly, the whole group is going to get better AND go higher in the rankings.

If you move to Pittsburgh and play with/against those guys, your going to HAVE to put in the time to get better. If you're in a beer league in [insert remove destination] where nobody gives a shit and it's just for fun, that location is not going to spawn much.

Regardless, the top 100 is going to be players from all over the world who are making the investment (time, money, travel) in becoming the highest ranked players. But I don't really think that anyone who is in the top 100 is in there accidentally as a benefactor of their location.