(Topic ID: 247924)

Undocumented Gottlieb VS Pinball machine “short videos added”


By N80G80

59 days ago



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  • 195 posts
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  • Latest reply 8 days ago by Matesamo
  • Topic is favorited by 70 Pinsiders

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#151 56 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

Any chance you have any old photos of either of them?

Sorry, I no longer have any of my old pinball related photos from Gottlieb.

#152 56 days ago

This may be the only one in existence or 1 of 3 or 5 say. This kind of rarity **can** command a very high price to the right collector.

Meanwhile let’s just laugh together at suggestions that this is only worth a few grand. We all know why these low dollar amounts are being thrown about.

#153 56 days ago
Quoted from spinal:

This may be the only one in existence or 1 of 3 or 5 say. This kind of rarity **can** command a very high price to the right collector.
Meanwhile let’s just laugh together at suggestions that this is only worth a few grand. We all know why these low dollar amounts are being thrown about.

Yep. "$5k all day." Laughable.

Well I'll gladly put in the opening thread bid at $5k, as I'm sure there's still plenty of meat on the bone there for me to make a profit.

#154 56 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

nobody wants a damn houdini!

How many rob. Zombies would it be worth? 12?

#155 56 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

Not about the flip at all. Everyone that has messaged me I’ve told I have no idea what I’m doing with it. I mostly want it documented, and like I said in my last post I’m really considering bringing it to the York show so many people can see/enjoy it.

Would be awesome to see/play this at York show!!

#156 56 days ago

Back to the technical side, does it use standard pinballs? Or some other material such as a plastic?
Any documentation at all on the machine, such as schematics or parts diagrams?

Regardless of long-term intent, it is extremely important to build up a technical documentation package if there isn't one present from Gottleb.
Wiring pinouts, boards used, things of that nature. Being this isn't a normal pinball system, having an extremely unique cabinet, mechanisms, and all that.... it's going to be extremely difficult in the long term to trouble shoot without some kind of reference material. Not like you can ask anybody where a wire goes if it breaks.

Get a 16gb camera, set your photo settings to max resolution, and don't stop until you're out of memory space. If you've got a buddy with a good SLR and a knack for photos, toss him a 6 pack and ask for the favor.

-Hans

#157 56 days ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Back to the technical side, does it use standard pinballs? Or some other material such as a plastic?
Any documentation at all on the machine, such as schematics or parts diagrams?
Regardless of long-term intent, it is extremely important to build up a technical documentation package if there isn't one present from Gottleb.
Wiring pinouts, boards used, things of that nature. Being this isn't a normal pinball system, having an extremely unique cabinet, mechanisms, and all that.... it's going to be extremely difficult in the long term to trouble shoot without some kind of reference material. Not like you can ask anybody where a wire goes if it breaks.
Get a 16gb camera, set your photo settings to max resolution, and don't stop until you're out of memory space. If you've got a buddy with a good SLR and a knack for photos, toss him a 6 pack and ask for the favor.
-Hans

There is no paper documentation on the game that I can find, or that pinball resource has. I do intend to take a billion photos with my DSLR. I want the game thoroughly documented.

#158 56 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

There is no paper documentation on the game that I can find, or that pinball resource has. I do intend to take a billion photos with my DSLR. I want the game thoroughly documented.

Glad to hear you’ve got the DSLR. If you think you need any schematic help just let me know. I’m perpetually busy but would love to help where I can.

#159 56 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

There is no paper documentation on the game that I can find, or that pinball resource has. I do intend to take a billion photos with my DSLR. I want the game thoroughly documented.

Have you given any thought to contacting the vendor on the sticker than I linked early in the thread? Could be a source of paper work, or even just general knowledge of the machine.

Short threadjack:

I have a very similar story, but it involves an electrictro-mechanical piano called the Fender Rhodes. FR's were all the rage from about the mid 60s, and all through the 70s. Things looked great until the anoraks at Yamaha released the (for the time, way more affordable) DX-7 digital synthesizer. In a turn not unlike pinball, the Rhodes went from a heavy, heavy beast that sold tens and tens of thousands, to a boat anchor that could barely be given away for free. Alas, interest in the Rhodes has arisen anew since the Oughts, and old ones can fetch a pretty penny. I happened to have found an uber-rare, never fully produced prototype called the Executone. Scored it for $350 an hour south of here. Turns out it was one of around 15 every assembled and I sold it for $2,200 delivered to Seattle. They in turn (after some repairs/mods/restorations) sold it for around 7 large.

#160 56 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

Not about the flip at all. Everyone that has messaged me I’ve told I have no idea what I’m doing with it. I mostly want it documented, and like I said in my last post I’m really considering bringing it to the York show so many people can see/enjoy it.

Not about the flip at all. Everyone that has messaged me I’ve told I have no idea what I’m doing with it. I mostly want it documented, and like I said in my last post I’m really considering bringing it to the York show so many people can see/enjoy it.

My point about putting it up for trade for a couple new pins wasn't about a "flip". My point was enjoy it for a while then put a "crazy price" on it. Either someone pays that crazy price for it or you can continue to enjoy it. The crazy price will put an end to dozens of people contacting you about buying it. At that point you will have a serious few that might want to give you enough for it to decide to let it go.

Regardless I would enjoy it for a while because you know you will never see another one!

#161 56 days ago

You really should enjoy the hell out of it!

You have something NO ONE else has!

I wish I had kept my Defender ! And they made 369 of them not many an I'll likely never see one again

#162 56 days ago
Quoted from dc2010:

You really should enjoy the hell out of it!
You have something NO ONE else has!
I wish I had kept my Defender ! And they made 369 of them not many an I'll likely never see one again

What about "cut the cheese"? Lol

#163 56 days ago

Finding the documentation will certainly be an impossible mission.

The best is certainly to be based on that of the SYSTEM-3 :
#743 - SHAQ ATTAQ
#shaq-attaq
which this cocktail table takes many items such as basketball panniers, or domes.

If you are looking for the detailed mechanical schematic of the baskets, they can be found on page 75 of this documentation:
2019-07-27_08h49_32 (resized).png

Note that the SHAQ ATTAQ has also been designed by Jon Norris.
@pinballguru

About the hardware:

I'm pretty sure that the boards used to display the scores on the 7-segment LEDs are the same as on the SHAQ ATTAQ (MA-1768), or at least, built on the same principle.
♦ How and where are these boards connected?
We see two long ribbons, which seem to be connected in parallel.
♦ Which connector on the CPU does it arrive at? A1P6 (like on the SHAQ ATTACK) or A1P3 (normaly, used for DMD board)?

About the configuration/bookeeping:

On the photos, we see that there is a test button, so access to a configuration/bookeeping menu seems well planned.
On the other hand, there is no screen (DOT).
What happen if you press the TEST buttons ? nothing ?

Maybe Jon can clarify this point, but in my opinion they have not developed a special code to use only LED displays as "common display". Normally, on a SYSTEM-3 the menus appear on the DOT screen. It would have been very complicated and very long to rewrite code to translate this into a very limited 7-segment LED display. So, may be I'm wrong, but I doubt that menu/configuration/bookeeping can be accessed using the "simple" LED display.

• This is only a hypothesis, but it is likely that to access the configuration, you must connect a DMD card + an external DOT on the CPU board.

The problem is that Gottlieb video boards are specific to each game, and finding one for OneOnOne is illusory. I think that if it works like this (with the need for an external video board), using an ATTAQ SHAQ would definitely be the solution.

#164 56 days ago
Quoted from noflip95:

The problem is that Gottlieb video boards are specific to each game

As far as I was aware, the DMD controller boards were interchangeable except with one of the boards found in Strikes 'N Spares (because of the dual-DMD configuration). Otherwise, each game had its own set of display ROMs, which weren't really interchangeable.

Even then--wouldn't similar era display ROMs work since you're just accessing the menus, rather than trying to display the game dots/graphics?

#165 55 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Even then--wouldn't similar era display ROMs work since you're just accessing the menus, rather than trying to display the game dots/graphics?

Yes, indeed, but it was just a hypothesis. There may be no need for another display if they have made a specific development with a very restricted interface.

This is not impossible because we also see that some boards are not "standard".
Obviously, there were savings made by not mounting certain components.

It is obvious on the driver board, where we see that it lacks MOSFET and some CI.

Same on the audio card, where the whole part of the YAMAHA circuits has not been mounted (U9, U10, U11 - YM2151 + YM3014).

It's very much true to the Gottlieb tradition: to do something new with old, and to remove components to make small savings.

#166 55 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

I’m getting a better camera and having a friend with some video experience help me to get up a decent video and better photos.

Quoted from N80G80:

There is no paper documentation on the game that I can find, or that pinball resource has. I do intend to take a billion photos with my DSLR. I want the game thoroughly documented.

Reading stuff like this, I must say, I get the feeling that the game is in really good hands.

So much talk here about selling it... Have you considered to just keep it? I mean hey, it's your machine. There's a personal story behind it for you (which is still being written as of now). And it's so cool to have a piece that literally nobody else in the world has.

#167 55 days ago

All that, and you get to be a member of the coolest club on Pinside

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-cocktail-club

#168 55 days ago
Quoted from Jappie:

Reading stuff like this, I must say, I get the feeling that the game is in really good hands.
So much talk here about selling it... Have you considered to just keep it? I mean hey, it's your machine. There's a personal story behind it for you (which is still being written as of now). And it's so cool to have a piece that literally nobody else in the world has.

Story of the game so far as I know:

Jon Norris designed the game 5 were made, 2 destroyed and 1x sold at auction (likely the one I own)

The one I own was operated at an Arcade in Amarillo Texas and sold to a local in Amarillo when either the arcade closed, or the game stopped earning.

The gentleman that I purchased it from bought it from that local Amarillo man about 6 or so years ago and has had it in his collection since then.

I found it for sale and then had a local friend of mine teknotoyz go and pick it up for me. The game was middle of nowhere WV.

So far as I can tell the game hasn’t really been altered. The cabinet has been repainted black, previous owner had some odd feet on the bottom to make it taller (removed now).

I doubt the game has ever been serviced and I’ll get into it the next week or so.

Lots of photos and videos to come!

13
#169 54 days ago

I picked up a Bally Spectrum from a fella that had one of these. It was around '07 or '08, he lived in the Chicago 'burbs - thinking it was the Tinley Park area. If I recall... he mentioned working for a big amusement company in the Chicago area.

I did get a pic of it.

DSCF1987 (resized).JPG
#170 54 days ago

The plot thickens...

#171 54 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

Story of the game so far as I know:
Jon Norris designed the game 5 were made, 2 destroyed and 1x sold at auction (likely the one I own)
The one I own was operated at an Arcade in Amarillo Texas and sold to a local in Amarillo when either the arcade closed, or the game stopped earning.
The gentleman that I purchased it from bought it from that local Amarillo man about 6 or so years ago and has had it in his collection since then.
I found it for sale and then had a local friend of mine teknotoyz go and pick it up for me. The game was middle of nowhere WV.
So far as I can tell the game hasn’t really been altered. The cabinet has been repainted black, previous owner had some odd feet on the bottom to make it taller (removed now).
I doubt the game has ever been serviced and I’ll get into it the next week or so.
Lots of photos and videos to come!

forceflow could it be possible to get some of the better posts in This thread marked as “key posts”? Maybe the ones from Jon Norris also. I have a feeling that this thread will get long and have a lot of cool information before we’re done.

Quoted from Schusler:

I picked up a Bally Spectrum from a fella that had one of these. It was around '07 or '08, he lived in the Chicago 'burbs - thinking it was the Tinley Park area. If I recall... he mentioned working for a big amusement company in the Chicago area.
I did get a pic of it.[quoted image]

Oooh. The story deepens. I wonder if this is #2 of 3-5 possible games? It’s highly unlikely that your picture is the same game as the OP’s game. If it was in a basement in the burbs, I doubt it had a dollar bill acceptor slapped on and put on route.

So there’s probably 2 now.
#1, sold at auction, put on route, saved from the wild to be tagged and documented.
#2, private collection in Chicago area.

#172 54 days ago

Love this thread. Looking forward to seeing some video of this thing in action.... but more importantly, Back up those rims. i Would send that thing off to HEP.

#173 54 days ago

Back up Roms. Autocorrect strikes again.

10
#174 54 days ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

forceflow could it be possible to get some of the better posts in This thread marked as “key posts”? Maybe the ones from Jon Norris also. I have a feeling that this thread will get long and have a lot of cool information before we’re done.

Oooh. The story deepens. I wonder if this is #2 of 3-5 possible games? It’s highly unlikely that your picture is the same game as the OP’s game. If it was in a basement in the burbs, I doubt it had a dollar bill acceptor slapped on and put on route.
So there’s probably 2 now.
#1, sold at auction, put on route, saved from the wild to be tagged and documented.
#2, private collection in Chicago area.

I can confirm that there are in fact two of these that exist. I was messaged by the owner of the other machine who wanted to remain anonymous. He didn’t want to be inundated with messages asking to sell it. His came from a vendor that he knew. His appears to be the same as mine in every way, bill validator and all.

#175 54 days ago

I love threads like these. Sweet score.

#176 54 days ago

incredible

#177 54 days ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

could it be possible to get some of the better posts in This thread marked as “key posts”?

Yes, it is possible. Feel free to point out any I missed, or changes you think might be helpful.

#178 54 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Yes, it is possible. Feel free to point out any I missed, or changes you think might be helpful.

I'd like to suggest a change: Premier ceased operations. They didn't go bankrupt.

#179 53 days ago

A few more photos, not high res, but I’m working on it, hoping to get high res photos and video up this coming weekend.

16912A47-0275-448D-BB95-542584B11D01 (resized).jpeg1AB36922-AE0E-44EC-B9CA-D1BD52FE46B5 (resized).jpeg46B340FF-AB8B-4946-A4B2-39A826C058D7 (resized).jpeg56A1F497-0298-454A-A5EF-3D3D73F92A70 (resized).jpeg82B2BAFF-2EE0-449E-8CCD-1141A197A7F2 (resized).jpeg885940B3-0D0D-4F29-B40A-2869DD508E7B (resized).jpeg9E63EDB4-62C0-4AF9-8368-75522D1AE0A3 (resized).jpegA9F39377-A16F-4C55-AD77-FC1AB67F3ABD (resized).jpegB0059DE7-B13D-4323-B5FF-7E354EF2D8A6 (resized).jpeg
#182 53 days ago

Just as a note the videos were both done with the dome off as to make it a little easier to see. Down side of that is it sort of muted the audio a bit.

#183 53 days ago

neat!

thanks for sharing

#184 53 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's not just that it's incredibly rare (it is), it's that it's the last working thing to come out of the Gottlieb factory.

Is this a fact? If so, it adds to the prestige.

This is a picture of the most interesting ROMs in pinball today, do you have the equipment to get them backed up?
The FCDC9B52-B754-4A9E-8A54-70E010E051CF (resized).jpeg

Since the cabinet has been painted black, will you restore it? Have you asked the other owner what the cabinet looked like? (I assume cheesy wood grain)

#185 53 days ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Is this a fact? If so, it adds to the prestige.
This is a picture of the most interesting ROMs in pinball today, do you have the equipment to get them backed up?
The [quoted image]
Since the cabinet has been painted black, will you restore it? Have you asked the other owner what the cabinet looked like? (I assume cheesy wood grain)

The other cabinet is also just gloss black. It’s honestly hard to know exactly what they may have been like in production, most true prototype/sample games I’ve seen over the years are somewhat thrown together, some have variance. And don’t worry, I’ll be backing up the ROMS very soon.

1 week later
#187 44 days ago

Glad you bumped this! I love fascinating stuff like this when it's found. It really reminds me of the Atari Hoop It Up game. pinballguru , I know that game came out in 1995 and often companies would design similar things to try to improve upon them. Was this inspired at all from that game?

Also, it seems to be using one of the International Concepts cabinets. Was that just for the prototypes, or was it intended to use the same ones?

Finally, is it not a redemption game?

I love games like this Glad someone found it who is willing to share!

#188 44 days ago
Quoted from goatdan:

… Finally, is it not a redemption game?

Sure NOT ! there is even a "Dollar Bill Acceptor" inside

What is also remarkable about this table is that although it uses the same baskets as the SHAQ ATTAQ, it is closer to the first SYSTEM-3 with 2x20 VFD display than those with DOT display.

Indeed, according to the videos, we see that the display is alpha-numeric type. The two displays are apparently, wired in parallel and there is no need for external display for configuration menus and bookeeping.

• So, they had to make a very specific development for this game.

I have never seen this kind of display block on another Gottlieb pinball.
In fact, there is one that has also used 16-segment displays :

➡ This is VEGAS (SYSTEM-3 from 1990).

It uses a MA-1451board with three 16-segment LED displays (yes, actually 16 segments and not 14 as on the VFD 2x20).

VEGAS - MA1451

To my knowledge, this kind of display has not been used on any other Gottlieb pinball machine. All other from that generation, use additional digital displays that are 7-SEGMENT classics (like on Hoops, Title fight, Deadly Weapons, and many more).

The board used in the OneOnOne has height characters, but the schematic and logic, should not be far from the MA-1451 board that was used in VEGAS.

Usually the additional LED displays are connected to the A1P6, but here the two blocks are connected to the A1P3 which is dedicated to the VFD or DOT display boards.
This is not so surprising, because already on the first SYSTEM-3, the VFD displays had been simplified compared to those of the SYSTEM-80B: we no longer find the 10939/10940 and the multiplexing is done by the A1 CPU board and no more automated by the VFD module.

Control of a 16-SEGMENT LED module by the CPU was therefore possible from this connector, but they had to do some development, if only for the character generator which no longer has 14 segments (VFD) but 16 in this case.

#189 43 days ago
Quoted from noflip95:

Sure NOT ! there is even a "Dollar Bill Acceptor" inside

You can put a dollar bill acceptor on any game with a coin door. This is the sort of game that usually makes more sense as a redemption game. See Atari Hoop It Up, most arcade basketball games, and so on.

Strikes and Spares, which was a sort of similar concept but with bowling, also released in 1995 was a redemption game.

1 week later
#190 37 days ago
Quoted from Gott_Lieb:

I'm still looking for the elusive System 3 Bad Girls game. 10 were made, so there has to be one sitting out there, unless Katrina wiped them all out.
Jim

Gott_Lieb A guy named Kenyon Carter just wrote a message underneath my Bad Girls video on Youtube, claiming to own one of the 10 System 3 Bad Girls. Video and comment are here:

#191 36 days ago
Quoted from Jappie:

Gott_Lieb A guy named Kenyon Carter just wrote a message underneath my Bad Girls video on Youtube, claiming to own one of the 10 System 3 Bad Girls. Video and comment are here:

Cool!

#192 36 days ago

Cool find...bookmarked

1 week later
10
#193 27 days ago

Here are some videos for everyone to enjoy:

Head to Head Gameplay:

2 Player game with overtime:

Player 2 Overhead Gameplay:

Walkthrough:

#194 27 days ago

Thanks a lot. Incredible find and such a cool machine!

2 weeks later
#195 8 days ago

Man, that looks like a fun two player game!

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