Disagree. It's no one business other than the principles involved.

Phil is the reason I pre-ordered TBL. So I really hope that this parting doesn't involve DP trying to throw him under the bus. Whatever their differences were in the vision of marketing this game what he did worked for me.

I was going to wait to comment until DP had a chance to respond, but as usual things on the internet move too fast for that.

My concerns now are mostly about the licenses, and the big role that Phil had in those. If the line is going to be that "Phil was just the marketing guy, and didn't affect the game" then I'm going to feel like the company is lying to us, and that's not going to leave a good taste in my mouth.

I need reassurances that the license situation is handled with Phil gone, period.

Thank you. WHY you left is nobody's business except your own.
Enjoy the next phase in your life...

Really the only thing I'm wondering; was the original email that setoff this drama approved by DP? If not, I stand by my original post..."over the line".

If you're going to air your dirty laundry in public, you might as well put your shitty underwear out too.

Phil already made it the business of people other than those involved when he sent out that email. He did it in a manner that struck me (and many others) as spiteful. Then he came here and made a comment that also struck me as spiteful. He put it out in the open, and if he's half the man people here talk him up to be, he'll either put up (further information on the subject) or shut up. Quite frankly, he should shut up, as he probably shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

But, at the end of the day: fuck it, let's go bowling.

Exactly Dude!

It's like a herd of cattle nervously huddled together after dark. In the trees behind them a rancher has his shotgun pointed harmlessly in the air. He turns to his buddy and whispers: "Watch this"

But he didn't air any dirty laundry. He simply said he has left Dutch Pinball. - Pinside has added the drama.

You're on Dude.

all i want to know is if I won the TBLselfie contest or not?

Well, did you even have any competition? I would compete, but I still haven't gotten my shirt

Well Ted, he inserted himself into the conversation here. I asked the question, how about letting him decide if he wants to answer. Thx

This isn't SkitB

Just Mrs. Burningman. Yeah the shirt mishandling sort of made the contest FUBARed. I would support extending the TBL-Selfie deadline (was Expo) until after all pre-orderers get their shirts + a month or two. and maybe a recount.. my wife's friends started sharing it and I got a bunch of non-pinhead likes on my image that I feel slightly guilty about.. just slightly.

I don't know who was handling the shirts and mailing list maintenance but both seemed to suffer a bit from organizational problems.. so, here's to seeing that improve regardless of who was doing it before.

No say it isn't so...

I sent in some good ones and I wish they would post all of them on the web site. We'll see...

I asked Phil about this at Expo. He told me the winner was someone's girlfriend/wife with ample assets.

Totally disagree. A boutique pinball maker trying to deliver their first pin ought to treat it like a publicly traded company. Guess what, we are funding the build. You want to say that about Stern, fine. These guys, no way.

To defend non disclosure and non transparency makes zero sense.

That said, I fully expect to get a nice update and we move on just like Jpop and unlike SkitB

Mrs. Burningman

Me too Aurich. Period. Your opinion is one of the ones that swayed me in

The reason I enjoy funding these startups is to help these guys further great pinball. If there is gonna be BS involved I can wait and buy after the fact. Let's hope we don't have licensing issues again. Either way, need to know.

"My concerns now are mostly about the licenses, and the big role that Phil had in those. If the line is going to be that "Phil was just the marketing guy, and didn't affect the game" then I'm going to feel like the company is lying to us, and that's not going to leave a good taste in my mouth.
I need reassurances that the license situation is handled with Phil gone, period."

We can agree to disagree.

Here's a preview of the up coming announcement from Dutch Pinball.

Dutch Pinball and Phill have decided to move forward independent of one another. Phil was a great asset to Dutch Pinball and we wish he and his family the very best. We know that Phil will be successful in anything he's involved and he will be missed. - Thanks

Of course this will not satisfy Pinside and rumors of adultery and murder will prevail.

Well we will see what they have to say in Houston as well Kim.

Are you saying Phil had sex with one of the partners wives? Surely he didn't kill somebody

thats your fault.

This morning I received emails from Barry confirming my pre-order receipt.

logjammin'....

skiball

The Chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT...

It's my choice, not my fault, I can and will change my choice if I don't like what I hear

Donny...please.

Phil? Phil?!
groundhogday_happy.jpg

Exactly. My choice was to pay my order in full after hearing the seminar at Expo. If I hadn't, I would have a day later after meeting the entire DP team. I have been in since the first day and will be in until the last.

Nice to see these guys are humans and real life stuff happens in real life. I have the confidence that DP will still produce the epic game that they had visioned. And for me, I am OK with being an early achiever, and looking forward to the perks that we early achievers will be getting.

If you are not comfortable with ordering this game, that is up to you. Frankly, if an announcement like this is enough to make you jump ship, I would question the original decision to get on board in the first place. We all have the luxury of waiting a year or more to get one that is in inventory. Its all good, different strokes for different folks.

These guys are new, and their will be hick-ups down the road, (I know, I had them, and still have them in my business), its how they react and overcome those obstacles that will define Dutch Pinball in the future......And I have all the confidence that these guys will continue to perform at a level that has been redefined by them.

Yeah, well,you know, that's just like your opinion, man

But it's one I share .

Cut some slack to the DP guys. Let the dust settle and see what appears. I bet we will all be satisfied when the newsletter arrives. If not, jump ship. I'm staying on board.

Frankly, I explained my original decision and why I fund these pre orders.

You just said the magic words, it's how they react that will define them. I didn't have the luxury of meeting these guys at Expo and don't know or care about all the details surrounding Bop 2.0

Whether it's SkitB, Jpop, JJP, Heighway, DP or whoever I am helping fund a build, happily so, if there is a "change" in attitude or communication that doesn't get addressed then I'll just do what I should have done in the first place, get a refund and wait it out.

To each his own, my BS meter and tolerance level is running on empty right now. Whatever floats your boat!

Dude, that's all we do is cut slack. I'm waiting like everybody else

"As many of you know, Phil has departed for other adventures; he was a valuable member of our team throughout this project, and we wish him continued success in his future endeavors. In the meantime, if you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected].

Our main focus was and will always be building an awesome game.

Team Dutch Pinball"

NAILED IT

Really? Didn't nail anything for me. Great, you wish Phil well, glad to hear it. He's gone, so I'd rather hear about what's going on with the game now.

I hope that's not the email we're all waiting for.

No no, I was saying "Nailed it" to Mr68, who I quoted, and who called it that their response would be a total non-answer and not really say anything.

It's exactly what the first email should have been. A professional heads up saying, Phil is no longer with DP and there focus will be on production.

What the heck do you expect them to say? He left, they are still working on the game.

Chris

I'm not sure exactly what I was looking for in the email response from DP to calm the herd.... But, I'm pretty sure that wasn't it.

Brian

Oh, duh. MY BAD.

I WANT CRUCIFIXIONS DAMMIT!

Frankly, I didn't expect anything from them. As long as the machine is going ahead without Phil (like Aurich said, licensing stuff), and as long as Phil hasn't stole all the Paypal money, then I don't care. I've got my money in.

hey if they updated the mailing list to include all preorder-ees before they sent that then they actually did make a step in the right direction I'm only hard on them as I want them to be the best they can be.

I don't need an official explanation for why Phil left. That's not important. He and DP had differences of opinion, he left, they're moving on. I like Phil, but I'm no longer buying a product "from him" so in that sense he's not the focus anymore.

And yes, I realize he didn't run DP. But he personally sold me on the game at Expo, and I'm not the only one. And he was an integral part of their licensing process.

And frankly it's that latter part that bothers me. Is the playfield art approved? Is what was shown at Expo approved? Are there going to be any difficulties with the licensor now that the person they were communicating with has left?

I want updates about the game, not the guy who's no longer on the team. And frankly that's not going to "blow over" for me in a few weeks. The team changing is fine in theory, things happen. But I had answers before I said I'm in, and now I don't feel like I do anymore.

This isn't BOP 2.0, we're not talking about difficulties with Rick or whatever and a cool but relatively inexpensive project that will maybe ship 60 units. A communication blackout doesn't work for me.

Come on Chris, don't ruin the moment. I can read palms, tea leafs, cleavage, and I have some lotto numbers for future drawings to sell.

How likely is it that the licensing was made out to Phil and not to Dutch Pinball? They ARE a company, so I find it quite unlikely that there will be any issues with it, but, this too is my number one concern (and really, my only concern).

Oh, sorry!

Chris

That's not the issue at all. The license is out to DP, not Phil, and if I implied otherwise I apologize. But he was the point person talking to them, and now he's gone. He was the one with the "Western" background on the team, who was perfect for communicating with US companies.

TBL is looking as good as it is because of a lot of dancing and loophole finding and finessing, that's how you work with a licensor. They put up all these rules and you find ways to work within and around them to get your vision to happen.

The language barrier can be tricky. I remember I was talking with Robin once, who's English is excellent, but I said "we can table that until later" or something. Well he had no idea what I meant, it's an idiom. That stuff doesn't always translate well, but it didn't even occur to me when I said it.

So whether or not I think Phil or Jaap has better ideas for how to market a game that I'm already sold on isn't really a sleep loser. But I want to know how the things that he was handling that were connected to the game are being dealt with.

I'm hoping the reason (whether we ever know it or not) that DP and Phil decided to part ways is because Phil was not adequately communicating with people who had deposited thousands of dollars on the game. I got my confirmation right away, but it appears there were several people who were left hanging for DAYS. That's inexcusable. They don't need to instantly reply to every email they get, but taking days to respond to "Hey guys can you confirm you got my $4500 and I'm on the list?" is not acceptable.

So I'd like to think a real problem at DP (adequate communication to paying customers/investors) was resolved vs. there being some scary problem/schism/conspiracy. I wish DP's update had been a little more reassuring and less boilerplate corporate speak (Mr68 really did nail it). I hope they communicate more fully and frequently in the future.

Ahhh, I see what you mean, thanks for clarifying that. I think that regardless of where problems with Phil leaving MIGHT arise, the important thing is that DP address these issues.

You have Saturdays powerball drawing numbers handy?

This is a very complicated game Mr. 68. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. And, uh, lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Luckily I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, limber.

Good points. I am not sure Scott's qualifications (TheNoTrashCougar), but perhaps he'll become more involved with TBL as BOP2.0 winds down so can be the token american

The most recent email from Dutch Pinball was in reaction to Phil's announcement. My guess is DP were caught off guard by it. But they responded quickly, appropriately and professionally. Further announcements from DP are undoubtedly coming in due time.

But for now, why not take up DP's offer and contact them. They know there's needed damage control going on because of this: [email protected] My guess is this will all be handled well and everything will blow over quickly.

And to those of you posting about disappearing PayPal money or whatever nonsense from this.... Get a grip.

Based on the recent history of pre-orders funding a pinball startup business there will be at least a handful more of these drama filled threads before the game is shipped. There will be many interesting things stated, some accurate, many not.

Those who have not had a pre-order before get the pleasure of meeting pinsiders who will not have ordered TBL, but will feel compelled to let you know what a dumb idea that was. You might even get to meet "new" pinsiders, that seem to have a lot of knowledge of pinside history, who will tell you why this company can't make it and other terrible things like that. These people are corn-flake pissers, but you can think of them as rug pissers.

Be prepared to channel the dude and keep in mind that no one has met a finished delivery deadline yet in the world of pinball.

Not sure what else DP should do here on the announcement. They should not have allowed Phil's original announcement to go out as written, but it did. Oh well.

They haven't, to my knowledge, engaged in crisis driven game updates in the past. Not sure why they should start now.

Heck, they will be in Houston this weekend at a show and will face lots of Q/A on game progress, I am sure.