People leave jobs all the time, from the CEO down to the janitor. And virtually all of those companies run essentially the same after the departure. Have a White Russian and calm down, Dude.

I agree. I'm not worried given how far along the project appears to be, but the way that Phil made this announcement doesn't come across as someone parting on good terms. I'm hoping to hear something from DP in the near future.

Says it was the most f***d up job vs all the other jobs he's had with major organizations. Not sure if he's saying that in a good way or a bad way.

i wonder how many spots i move up from people cancelling on this news?

It's these parts that I just don't get. How can anyone say this company has there sh$t together or they have a high level of professionalism. This company hasn't produced ANYTHING as of today. They have two pre-orders out there one of which has missed countless deadlines. Whether you like it or not this company's word mean nothing at this point. Stop looking at what the company says when you want to defend them. Look at what they have done. At this point I've been told:

- If we get 20 orders we'll build and ship BOP 2.0 starting in Jan 13. They got there orders and then nothing. We pushed and pushed and found out they hadn't even been granted the license to produce the title.

- We were then told that they had "all parts" and parts were sent to the US to be assembled. This was begginging of the summer. Lo and behold some of there vendors didn't even have there parts yet to do the work they needed to do. How do you have "all parts" when the vendors supplying your project don't even have all your parts.

- Then told BOP 2.0 would ship by Expo. Again, nothing....

- Then told that they would ship when they got back from Expo. Guess what... Still nothing....

THIS COMPANY HAS PRODUCED NOTHING to paying customers!!!!!!! So far it's been nearly no communications and broken promises. If you are a pre-order for TBL I wish you luck. If you haven't pre-order I would never even consider it until they start producing things.

No the sky isn't falling but this company is far from the gem you all TBL followers want them to be. Open your eyes and see what they are actually doing as actions speak much louder than words. They have great innovation and potential but the way they run their business is going to bury them if they don't turn their sh$t around fast.

Another hopeless plug. Ship me my damn BOP 2.0. Having happy paying customers is much better "marketing" then prepping for a bunch of shows not to mention it being the right thing to do. If what they say is true (would be a first) and they have had all the parts when they said they did then product should have been shipping a while ago.

End rant of one very PISSED of BOP 2.0 (some day) owner that is sick of seeing people down grade the faults of this company. Let the flaming against me commence. I honestly don't care anymore what people think of me when I bitch about DP. It's my goal to get the word out as much as possible till they come through on there umpteen promise to myself and every 2.0 buyer...

Something tells me that you would never be a happy customer. Do you need a hug, man?

I can confidently say that the BOP 2.0 situation should have no bearing on the TBL timeline. Fully aware there is not great piece of evidence I can point to as proof, but they are wholly separate situations. It is a different project with different matters. I would also be upset if I were you, but knowing a few key details, I can't help but try and defend a bit here. For whatever that is worth.

Yeah, they're utterly unrelated. This whole Williams 2.0 stuff just has growing pains.

OK....

Just talked with Barry. Everything is still full steam ahead. We did not go into why, what, or any reason as to Phil's leaving. Its none of my business. But Barry did emphasize that Dutch Pinball is fine and producing TBL is their top priority.

Phil did do an excellent job with marketing the game. But he is not the one that is producing it, DP is. No one individual is the team. DP is the team.

I am in on the pre-order, and as a matter of fact, I am paid in full. I will be sleeping just fine tonight, the same as I did last night. So lets not get our panties all tied in knots.

As my good friend PDXMonkey, and our good friend Walter says..."Nothing is fucked Dude"

I'm not convinced DP has much control or say over how/when that becomes commercially available anymore. My understanding is BoP 2.0 as a product has been complete for a long time, but has been stuck in essentially "licensing hell". Maybe I'm wrong?

What part of that game requires licensing? Weren't they smart enough to code all the video and audio to not use any WMS owned content?

Geez, after the Expo reception of TBL and DP, I half expected delivery of the game by remote drone. It sounded like everyone was cancelling all other pre-orders to get in on TBL.

Yeah, they are different. Doing BOP 2.0 is much easier than producing a full pinball machine from scratch. If they can't do 2.0 then what makes everyone think they can come through on producing a full machine?

It's like a mechanic that can't change your air filter but says he can do an engine swap no problem. They are completely different but one is less complicated than the others. It's not there minds of innovation that concerns me. It's there production capabilities that concerns me and there are a lot more moving parts in producing a full blown machine vs just a code change run off P-Roc.

Probably right. But if I were to get my 2.0 and it was everything it was expected to be I would move from being a detractor of the company to at least a silent party. No hug needed. Just my kit that came from my hard earned money.

This was very much the type of email that makes you ask WTF?
If this was just business as usual, then this should have come from DP, not from the former employee. Or best case, via press release worded a bit differently, of course.
DP owes their customers a follow up of some sort with a little explanation.

Yes and no. Same company, same expectations of at least minimal communication. They have not kept a single promised deadline on 2.0, and have not felt the need to inform anyone about what's going on. What would suggest that they won't treat TBL pre-orders the same way once they're busy promoting the next game?

Character and business principles are what they are. Just because the details behind the 2.0 and original DP products are different doesn't mean we should expect that the players running things will treat customers any differently.

The name and the likeness. It's still a licensed thing.

There were some lame holdups they couldn't really control.

I'd fix that by calling it something else. I can't believe they put themselves in the situation to be held up by WMS...

One fact, lots of conjecture and misc other posts.

All is as it should be.

Still valid reasons from where I'm standing... There's also the option to pull out to add the 'why not' factor... unless that's all bull...

That was cleared up several months ago. Would have to dig through my e-mails to get an exact date but it's been cleared up. At this point they sent us an e-mail with pictures of all the parts on 10/9. They said in that e-mail EU kits would ship within 2 weeks of getting back from expo. That deadline is Friday. Hopefully it happens but being they are coming to Houston show now I'm not optimistic.

Not 100% but I think a lot of it was the emulation of the original BOP code so you could use either version on your game.

When there are legal issues sometimes you just have to be quiet, like it or not.

Anyone seen a statement from Stern about what happened to the actor voices in TWD yet?

Anyways, I'm not in on BOP 2.0, so not gonna ride that horse anymore. It is what it is, and as a TBL buyer it doesn't concern me. Maybe Rick is the person to ask about it.

Phil leaving gives me pause, because he's the one who sold me on the vision of the company. I'm not panicking or anything, but I am waiting to hear from DP about what's up.

Then don't keep promising dates and missing deadlines.

I do not believe anybody is scarred stiff at the moment but even burningman must admit that the e-mail from Phil was a bit strange.

Btw: I am glad we have you, burningman who are in contact with them and can give us information.

They should hire you as a pr consultant. Really appreciate it since it seems to be hard to get a hold of them on e-mail.

Sleep tight, everybody

I wonder who they will select as a replacement? Hopefully not some stiff suit.

That's fair. I'm not in the loop so if they are behind, they're behind. I just know there were big delays due to WMS/PPS licencing... If that ship has sailed than I don't have anything else to add.

They emulate the original game, and there are assets in BoP (ie - the BoP robot) that could be considered WMS property. Same set of issues exists between Cactus Canyon Continued and WMS/PPS. This is all uncharted territory and it takes time I'm afraid. Releasing it under a different name isn't the solution, nor is it a way to run a business imo.

That explains why my emails are not being answered.
Regardless.........I'm out.

I've been taking a breather from Pinside but had to return after getting Phil's email. But before I returned I sent him this reply.

"Best wishes to you, Phil. I enjoyed your Expo seminar and meeting you at the VIP party.

I'll have to go check out Pinside now to see what kind of an explosion this announcement will make. My guess is you leave with a bang and not a whimper.

Cheers,

Kim"

Wow, just wow..
First the jpop debacle, then the skit b debacle, now the dp... Wtf is going on with the boutique companies... And now for the next exciting episode of as the pinside turn! Who will be next voted off the island? Seriously this is crazy.

JJP closes its doors, Stern buyings everything for pennies on the dollar from everyone.

They do absolutely need to replace him though. The fact that they couldn't quite get the t-shirt distribution sorted out even with Phil has been disappointing; i.e., their books need to get sorted and communications maintained. If the rest of the guys are too busy making the game then somebody needs to do it.

No joke - Stern has been able to do that before

Got a surprise phone call from Barry.

I may be a complete jack ass sometimes but I'm still a man of my word so I wont share our full conversation as it was a private conversation thus the call. I do feel it merits a post to advise that they are listening and that after speaking with him my confidence level is better. I still do believe that actions are what speaks so that will tell the full story but I was very pleased with what he had to say.

BRILLIANT! lol

Agreed. Just talked to someone else from DP. It seems this type of exit was a surprise and there is nothing big to be concerned about. This will have no effect on the finished product. DP will get out an official word soon enough.

That's all I want. I don't need to know a single thing about Phil. My concerns are about communication and the product. Progress updates, timeline, distribution, support, hardware, etc.

_{Post edited by Erik: english mfer, do you speak it}

It appears that all the videos featuring Phil on the Internet have been removed...

Brad

So, who made him the offer he couldn't refuse; Stern, JJP, PPS or Gottlieb Development??

Soon enough would have been 10 minutes after (or better still 1 day before) Phil's email.

I've talked and spent time with most of the DP guys, including Phil, and I see Phil leaving as a non event, non issue as far as the future of DP. While curious minds want to know, and I'm sure he will be missed, I don't see this as any kind of an issue or concern. Now if it was Barry or Koen or Jaap leaving, well, that would be a different story.

Dudes.
Keep up the good work.

Like you said it. There is a whole team making the TBL.
And i have al the faith in the world in this project.

Regard Gerard.

image.jpg

i just hope Dutch Pinball remembers to dump Phil's ashes DOWNWIND from where they're standing.

Who cares if the potty mouthed marketing guy quit DP?

Did anyone care when Andrew Ridgeley quit WHAM! ?

That's some funny chit there!

Maybe he had to work on shabbas.

This actually makes me feel better about DP being successful, Phil's parting email seems even less professional than his performance in the Expo seminar, the DP crew is probably better off without him IMO.

Hope the delays get worked out soon for the BOP 2.0 buyers. It'll be interesting to see what news comes out of the Houston show regarding all of this.

Because we love to roll the dice. Wanna lay 8k down?

Seriously though, he was just the marketing guy. Who cares?