(Topic ID: 310448)

TZ - Something wrong in the 12V power world...

By thirstypo

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by thirstypo
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

r260.jpg
12vu.jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider DumbAss.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from thirstypo:

For LED's on the WPC Power Driver board, all lit (or blinking, number 3) except 7 - not lit.

Quoted from thirstypo:

80mV to a target of 12V

LED7. TP1. Consider checking F116 (like the message says).

12vu.jpg12vu.jpg

Quoted from thirstypo:

101V to a target of 50V (Double!!!!?)

Check the voltage immediately after power on when the machine has been off for a while. If the voltage is in the expected range (~70V) watch the voltage and see if it rises over time.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from thirstypo:

F116 looks intact, I'll double check continuity just in case.

Quoted from thirstypo:

UPDATE: F116 was blown - stealth blown, not visually evident.

You do not have "electron vision" so you cannot definitively say a fuse is blown or not by simple inspection.

You must measure with a multimeter to be sure a fuse is blown or not. Always isolate the board at the very least (disconnect all connectors) or isolate the fuse itself (lift one side out of the holder or clip). Only the multimeter has "electron vision".

Quoted from thirstypo:

Also, TP1 seems to be running high - is that typical or does it usually stay close to 12V?

This is normal. It is unregulated. There are two "+12V" rectification or regulation circuits on the board and unfortunately Williams decided to indicate a nominal voltage of "+12V". These are far too often confused by many people on this forum.

Quoted from thirstypo:

I checked TP6 over time and found that it started off close to 75V, but over the course of 10 minutes it climbed to 104V.

Quoted from thirstypo:

Reviewing some other posts I see that R260 might be a potential source of the problem. Tested it and with power off I got 3MOhms, testing it as installed on the board. Looks like that could be it. Any experts want to chime in?

I have always wanted to use the emoticon. Very well done. You searched and you found the information. I was hoping you would do that. I see far too many people ask questions that have been answered MANY times over on the forum - i.e. they don't search. I pretty much stopped answering questions that have been asked many times before. Two decades ago I was a member of a forum that had a strict rule that you could not ask a question that had been previously asked and answered before. They strong encouraged using the search feature. I agree. Waste your own time - not somebody else's. I gave you a small hint and you took it. I am truly impressed.

Now go replace that open resistor. This problem is somewhat common on the board. The resistor is underrated for power dissipation and it cooks slowly over time. Replace it with a 15k or higher (even up to 27k) Ohm 0.5W resistor. Don't replace it with a 10k. It will likely slowly cook over time again and result in the same failure.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from thirstypo:

Help me understand how this resister being open leads to voltage creeping up. If the voltage off the transformer isn't much higher than advertised, how are we getting to more than 2x the alleged voltage off the transformer?

Quoted from thirstypo:

Sorry, engineer in me wants to know why, not just how to fix.

You have reached the limit of my knowledge. I only did high school physics which is basically V=IR. All I know is that R260 is the "bleed" resistor for the 50V supply (see schematic snippet below). The power dissipation is P=V^2/R and the nominal voltage is 70VDC.

P=V^2/R
P=70*70/10000
P=4900/10000
P=0.49

This means 70VDC dissipates 0.49W but the resistor is only 0.5W. The 0.5W rating is maximal and ideally (from what I have read) power ratings for the resistor should be double actual (computed) power dissipation.

r260.jpgr260.jpg

How does this cause the voltage to slowly rise over time? No clue. You'll need to consult someone like zaza or G-P-E who have vastly more electronics knowledge than me. I'm only guessing that it may have something to do with AC ripple and RMS but I have no clue and no evidence for that.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 145.00
Cabinet - Other
Pinball Haus
 
$ 21.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
8,250
Machine - For Sale
Bradenton, FL
$ 19.95
Lighting - Led
Mitchell Lighting
 
€ 75.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PPmods
 
$ 12.95
$ 19.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
 
$ 90.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
 
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
10,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Mount Pleasant, WI
$ 14.95
9,200
Machine - For Sale
Hermosa Beach, CA
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 35.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 129.50
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
$ 109.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
10,350
Machine - For Sale
Ontario, CA
$ 115.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
 
$ 12.50
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 49.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 24.00
Various Novelties
Pinball Photos LLC
 
$ 73.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
 
From: $ 100.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
$ 12.95
$ 110.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
pinballmod
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider DumbAss.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tz-something-wrong-in-the-12v-power-world?tu=DumbAss and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.