(Topic ID: 267821)

TZ not booting properly

By amrunner4

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Classe
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

My otherwise very reliable TZ has developed a problem. When I turn it on, it won't boot immediately. I get a pop in the speakers; a line in the display; and then a single bong. On the CPU board, All 3 of D19, D20, and D21 come on immediately and stay on solid. Then after about 1 1/2 or 2 minutes, the machine will suddenly boot properly.

It almost sounds like a bad solder point given the delay, as if something is heating up and finally making contact. Maybe no 12v initially, but then something corrects itself. But that's just a guess. Fuses are all OK.

Looking for ideas , please.

Andy

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from amrunner4:

My otherwise very reliable TZ has developed a problem. When I turn it on, it won't boot immediately. I get a pop in the speakers; a line in the display; and then a single bong. On the CPU board, All 3 of D19, D20, and D21 come on immediately and stay on solid. Then after about 1 1/2 or 2 minutes, the machine will suddenly boot properly.
It almost sounds like a bad solder point given the delay, as if something is heating up and finally making contact. Maybe no 12v initially, but then something corrects itself. But that's just a guess. Fuses are all OK.
Looking for ideas , please.
Andy

Were the large capacitors ever changed?

#3 3 years ago

First reseat all the connectors.
And give the ASIC on the MPU a firm push.
That would be my startingpoint

#4 3 years ago

Usually this happens when filter capacitor C5 is failing.

#5 3 years ago

Added info: Chris Hibler worked over the power driver board in the Summer of 2018, so components, connectors and traces I'm going to assume are good. I did reseat all cables on the CPU, and pushed gently on the ASIC and ROM chips on the CPU.

Does anyone make anything of the fact that it comes to life after about 2 minutes?

Thanks to everyone contributing!

Andy

#6 3 years ago

I’m wondering if the ram on the cpu is dying. Or the cap on the cpu is dying.

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#7 3 years ago
Quoted from amrunner4:

Added info: Chris Hibler worked over the power driver board in the Summer of 2018, so components, connectors and traces I'm going to assume are good. I did reseat all cables on the CPU, and pushed gently on the ASIC and ROM chips on the CPU.
Does anyone make anything of the fact that it comes to life after about 2 minutes?
Thanks to everyone contributing!
Andy

That’s why I was asking if the caps were ever changed. Traces and pins for the most part work or don’t work not warm up. Question, if After it finally fires up and run for a few minutes if you shut it off and turn it back on at that point does the same happen?

#8 3 years ago

I’m thinking the cap on the CPU itself.

#9 3 years ago

I went over things again just now. First off, and stupidly, I should have remembered this right off. I've had a Kahr daughterboard on the game for 2 years to stop the reset issues before Chris went over the power driver board. The daughterboard is still on the game. If I remove the daughterboard, the game boots normally. After booting, I'm getting only 11.6v at TP3 and LED1 is only very weakly lit. 5v at TP2 is 4.96v and LED4 is normally lit. Unregulated 12v at TP1 is 14.0.

It is with the daughterboard in place that the lack of booting occurs. It is a pro version, and the blue LED comes on indicating low 12v. However, when the game does boot up after the 2 minutes, the daughterboard is still in place.

So I'm thinking that I have a sagging 12v regulated supply, and the daughterboard is taking away enough from the 12v regulated curcuit that it prevents booting.

Why would it then boot normally after 2 minutes?
Where do I go next to work up a sagging 12v supply knowing the power driver board should be OK? The TP3 reads 11.6v whether the game has booted with or without the daughterboard in place, so it seems to be an underlying issue.

Once again, thanks.
Andy

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from amrunner4:

I went over things again just now. First off, and stupidly, I should have remembered this right off. I've had a Kahr daughterboard on the game for 2 years to stop the reset issues before Chris went over the power driver board. The daughterboard is still on the game. If I remove the daughterboard, the game boots normally. After booting, I'm getting only 11.6v at TP3 and LED1 is only very weakly lit. 5v at TP2 is 4.96v and LED4 is normally lit. Unregulated 12v at TP1 is 14.0.
It is with the daughterboard in place that the lack of booting occurs. It is a pro version, and the blue LED comes on indicating low 12v. However, when the game does boot up after the 2 minutes, the daughterboard is still in place.
So I'm thinking that I have a sagging 12v regulated supply, and the daughterboard is taking away enough from the 12v regulated curcuit that it prevents booting.
Why would it then boot normally after 2 minutes?
Where do I go next to work up a sagging 12v supply knowing the power driver board should be OK? The TP3 reads 11.6v whether the game has booted with or without the daughterboard in place, so it seems to be an underlying issue.
Once again, thanks.
Andy

I think you answered this problem yourself with the additional details. While some like the bandaid daughterboard to get by a problem it is now time to Actually Fix the problem your board has and loose the daughter board! These "fix" boards do work but they are Not a repair. They are a temporary bypass of the actual problem which you need to actually address.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I think you answered this problem yourself with the additional details. While some like the bandaid daughterboard to get by a problem it is now time to Actually Fix the problem your board has and loose the daughter board! These "fix" boards do work but they are Not a repair. They are a temporary bypass of the actual problem which you need to actually address.

I thought I did address the reset problem by having Chris work on the power driver board. But now this seems to be a new problem with the low 12v.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from amrunner4:

I thought I did address the reset problem by having Chris work on the power driver board. But now this seems to be a new problem with the low 12v.

You are getting good readings on the power driver board, but are you getting a solid 12v at the MPU too?

#13 3 years ago

If the regulated +12 VDC is low, it might be problem with the +18 VDC (TP8), which is converted to +12 VDC with a voltage regulator LM7812 (Q2).

If the 18 Volt is not correct, it is probably bridge rectifier BR1 / capacitors C6 and C7 that need to be replaced. If 18 Volts is ok, but 12 Volts is not ok, diodes D1 and D2 or voltage regulator Q2 are to be suspected. Check D1 and D2 (DMM in diode position. 0.4-0.6 VDC in one direction, and no value in the other direction.). If these measures ok, then change Q2.

Normal measurements on the testpoints:

TP1: 15 VDC
TP2: 5 VDC
TP3: 12 VDC
TP6: 75 VDC
TP7: 22 VDC
TP8: 18 VDC

Testpoints (resized).pngTestpoints (resized).png
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