(Topic ID: 284317)

TZ: No flashers and no gum ball Genva switch error

By Mickpat

10 months ago


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  • 14 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by LTG
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 months ago

I recently purchased a TZ a few weeks ago and everything was working really well. While playing a 4th ball was added to the gum ball and had to stop the game. After resetting the game, the game starts, but no ball ejected. I went into the service mode to eject the balls from the gum ball and get genva switch error. I do not hear the gumball motor before entering test mode. Also, none of my flashers are working now.

After doing some searching, someone suggested replacing fuse 111, but that didn't correct the issue. Now I am thinking there is an issue with the driver board. Another post suggested to replace the bridge rectifiers and caps. Maybe it would be to just replace the board with new Rottendog board but new ones are pretty pricey. Given the board is 27 years old, would it be better just to replace, or try and have the board serviced? Thought?
Driverboard (resized).jpg

#2 10 months ago

Maybe pull and check fuses with a meter. Then check the voltage test points. Before throwing money at it.

LTG : )

#3 10 months ago

Fuse F117 ? ( there isn't one )

Pull and check fuse F116 with a meter. That is your 12 volts secondary. For motors. Geneva switch may have come up in error because it hasn't been used recently, or could need attention.

LTG : )

#4 10 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Fuse F117 ? ( there isn't one )
Pull and check fuse F116 with a meter. That is your 12 volts secondary. For motors. Geneva switch may have come up in error because it hasn't been used recently, or could need attention.
LTG : )

Sorry, I meant fuse 111. I'll spend sometime testing the other fuses too.

#5 10 months ago
Quoted from Mickpat:

Sorry, I meant fuse 111.

That fuse is for flashers.

If you need it, you can download the manual here to help you.

https://www.ipdb.org/files/2684/Bally_1993_Twilight_Zone_Operations_Manual_OCR_searchable.pdf

There is a fuse chart in there. Page 1-47

LTG : )

1 week later
#6 9 months ago

I replaced the old driver board with a new driver board from https://pinballbasement.com/.

I did notice the old board had the https://kahr.us power reset fix chip installed. Since the board is new, I removed it. Should I just keep it in? The new board has updated 5v circuits so hoping this is no longer an issue.

Any ideas on what to do with the old board?

oldboard (resized).jpgoldboard2 (resized).jpg
#7 9 months ago

Did this new board fix your problem?

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from Mickpat:

I replaced the old driver board with a new driver board from https://pinballbasement.com/.
I did notice the old board had the https://kahr.us power reset fix chip installed. Since the board is new, I removed it. Should I just keep it in? The new board has updated 5v circuits so hoping this is no longer an issue.
Any ideas on what to do with the old board?
[quoted image][quoted image]

If you have a good board you do not need that kahr fix so leave it out. Send the old board out for repair so you have an extra if and when you need one.

#9 9 months ago
Quoted from pincoin:

Did this new board fix your problem?

Yes, the new board works even better. It fixed the issue with flashers and gumball motor not working and I think it also enabled dimming on GI or at least the dim level is better now.

#10 9 months ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

If you have a good board you do not need that kahr fix so leave it out. Send the old board out for repair so you have an extra if and when you need one.

Good suggestion. Thanks and Happy New Year.

#11 9 months ago

Hello, first time poster.

I am a long time owner of a TZ, Getaway and Road Show. A while ago my TZ developed the same issue as the OP in this thread and I am now trying to fix it. I have the same symptom running the Gumball test, three balls will load into the Gumball but it will not turn and there is no sound of the motor working. Then the test gives the Geneva switch error.

I have replaced fuses F111 and F116 but no change.

I used my DMM to test power to the red wire on the motor and there does not appear to be any power. I removed the red/black connector on the small motor board and tested the red pin and no power there either.

And that's the progress I can make so far. I would prefer to just fix my driver board if there is an issue rather than have to source a replacement. But I have no idea what I should be testing on the driver board. How does the Gumball motor connect to the driver board? What supplies the Gumball motor with power? What further steps should I take?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from THJM:

But I have no idea what I should be testing on the driver board. How does the Gumball motor connect to the driver board?

Back of the manual has pinouts for the various boards. Find where 12 volts leaves the driver board and see if you have power leaving when it should ( in test ? ) Follow wire colors.

Quoted from THJM:

I have replaced fuses F111 and F116 but no change.

Were they bad when checked with a meter ?

Check the voltage test points on the driver board, see if any are low or missing.

LTG : )

#13 9 months ago

Thanks LTG, much appreciated!

So I have made a bit of diagnosing progress I think. In looking at the solenoid/flasher table in the manual it lists the Gumball motor as solenoid #24 and designates it as a flasher. So I decided to run the flasher tests in the menu and it turns out that none of the flashers work at all. Looking at the power driver board LED #5 (listed in the manual as +20vdc, flashlamp circuit, normally on) is off. With the flashers not working presumably that is why the Gumball motor is not working given it is a "flasher" solenoid.

Researching this problem I found a post on another forum which suggested that the fix for both issues is to replace faulty bridge rectifiers and caps.

Currently I'm thinking I should just get the Marco Specialties WPC power driver board rebuild kit and replace all the bridge rectifiers, capacitors, etc. with the new ones from the kit. Does that make sense? I would at the same time reflow solder on all the header connectors. Is it best practice to remove all the old solder or just reflow new solder in with the old?

Also if I do that for the TZ would it be a good idea to do it for my Getaway and Road Show for good preventive maintenance?

#14 9 months ago
Quoted from THJM:

Currently I'm thinking I should just get the Marco Specialties WPC power driver board rebuild kit and replace all the bridge rectifiers, capacitors, etc.

Shot gun approach is bad. You will do more board damage than good. If the 20 volt bridge rectifier is bad, I'd just replace that.

Unless you are skilled at board repair. It's too easy to lose through board continuity under the capacitors.

LTG : )

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