(Topic ID: 293864)

TZ mini pf magnets not working, no 50V

By robm

3 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Coyote
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 3 years ago

    Hi All,

    Am restoring a TZ and got it all back together. Have the magnets on the mini pf not working. These are driven by Q24 and Q26 and grounding the tabs of these TIP102's does nothing. There is no 50V at the Q24 and Q26. Connector J124 has pins 4 and 5 that corresond to these, and pin 3 (right ramp diverter) has 50V and that coil works fine.

    Does this indicate an issue athe the power driver board, or something else?

    Thanks

    Rob

    #2 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    There is no 50V at the Q24 and Q26. Connector J124 has pins 4 and 5 that corresond to these, and pin 3 (right ramp diverter) has 50V and that coil works fine.

    You may want to reverify your connections/measurements J124-4 has no connection, it should be your key pin.

    The manual shows the magnet connection as J124-1 and J124-2
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    I'm guessing you don't have 50V to the mini playfield. Even if you had unkeyed connectors and plugged J124 connector into J123 one of the magnets should still work.
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #3 3 years ago

    Two connectors for the mini playfield are identical except for the wires. One for magnets and one for optos.

    If mixed up you blow out the optos and magnets won't work.

    LTG : )

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Two connectors for the mini playfield are identical except for the wires. One for magnets and one for optos.
    If mixed up you blow out the optos and magnets won't work.
    LTG : )

    This. Go into switch test first, and make sure you didn't completely melt your optos. If you DID, reverse the plugs (wire colors should match), replace optos, and you'll be good to go.

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    You may want to reverify your connections/measurements J124-4 has no connection, it should be your key pin.
    The manual shows the magnet connection as J124-1 and J124-2
    [quoted image]
    I'm guessing you don't have 50V to the mini playfield. Even if you had unkeyed connectors and plugged J124 connector into J123 one of the magnets should still work.
    [quoted image]

    Correct, i had the numbering back to front, it is 124-1 and 124-2 - these are the ones that have no 50V

    I don't seem to have 50v at the mini playfield, so where else could i look for why its not getting there, yet is everywhere else on the machine? These are the only coils not working

    #6 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Two connectors for the mini playfield are identical except for the wires. One for magnets and one for optos.
    If mixed up you blow out the optos and magnets won't work.
    LTG : )

    Checked this - all connectors are OK, and optos work fine on mini playfield

    #7 3 years ago

    With switches good - check operation of your LEFT slingshot.

    Does it fire?

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    I don't seem to have 50v at the mini playfield, so where else could i look for why its not getting there, yet is everywhere else on the machine? These are the only coils not working

    Its very odd for both of them to not have 50V as the 50V for each one are on separate circuits and each circuit controls multiple coils. The only single common point is going to be the mini playfield connector.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    With switches good - check operation of your LEFT slingshot.
    Does it fire?

    Yes, left sling works fine in test adn gameplay

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Its very odd for both of them to not have 50V as the 50V for each one are on separate circuits and each circuit controls multiple coils. The only single common point is going to be the mini playfield connector.

    So the plug going to mini pf has 2 thick blue wires (for magnets) and 2 purple wires. The 2 purple have 50v, the two blue have 1.5V or so. These blue wires thhen go to the 8 high power driver board under the playfield. It is an aftermarket one, so unsure where 50V comes in and goes around that board

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    The 2 purple have 50v, the two blue have 1.5V or so.

    This would have been good to know at the start - it means that your issue isn't the 50v, but the driver lines.
    Which is good - if grounding the transistors aren't doing anything, then your issue is likely related to the 8-Driver High-Power board.

    Check connections there, continuity between the driver lines (Blu-Brn, Blu-Red). Check that the drivers didn't get pulled from the IDC connectors. If it's a new board, and you have your original, swap them back out and see if that changes anything.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    It is an aftermarket one, so unsure where 50V comes in and goes around that board

    The manual is your friend, too - page 3-14.

    #13 3 years ago

    OK, getting driven a little crazy here!

    So looking at the schematic

    I have 50VDC coming in at J2 on pins 5 and 3 (they are not actually tied together on the board as per schematic, and neither is the original board) - there is an A and B line for 50V, however left and right magnets are on A and B respectively, so not a common link there.

    When i test for 50V on the board, i get 50V BOTH sides of the diodes that are related to workign coils, however only get 50V on the banded side of the diode assocaited with Q5 and Q8 (the magnet ones), the non banded side is only 2.7 VDC.

    When i check the legs of the TIP36C's, there is 50V on both outside legs of the 'working'ones, but only 2.7V for Q5 and Q8

    All tracks appear to buzz out - so is there any other place that the 50 volts are fed from? Or have i by chance got 2 blown TIP36C's? ( Ireally don't think they are blown as i'm fairly sure i tested this board in another TZ and it worked fine, just dont have access to that one any more).

    I've also verified the magnet coils are OK - 5 ohm resistance, and there is continuity from at least one (the other i cant get to without removing mini pf), to its connector J1-8 on the high power driver board

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    I have 50VDC coming in at J2 on pins 5 and 3 (they are not actually tied together on the board as per schematic, and neither is the original board)

    Yes, these should be listed as 50V(A) and 50V(B) not tied together and listed as 50V.

    Quoted from robm:

    I've also verified the magnet coils are OK - 5 ohm resistance, and there is continuity from at least one (the other i cant get to without removing mini pf), to its connector J1-8 on the high power driver board

    You may have already done this, but just for a sanity check, can you ohm out your magnets to the connectors that plug into the High Power Driver Board
    SOL25 (Left MP Magnet) J4-5 to J4-7
    SOL26 (Right MP Magnet) J1-1 to J1-8
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pin_Guy:

    Yes, these should be listed as 50V(A) and 50V(B) not tied together and listed as 50V.

    You may have already done this, but just for a sanity check, can you ohm out your magnets to the connectors that plug into the High Power Driver Board
    SOL25 (Left MP Magnet) J4-5 to J4-7
    SOL26 (Right MP Magnet) J1-1 to J1-8
    [quoted image]

    I think you are onto something!!!!

    Both are open, so.....i'm assuming that means chasing wires and connectors between the high power board and the magnets themselves. Grrr, didn't want to pull the mini pf out again

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    Grrr, didn't want to pull the mini pf out again

    Don't blame you there; I wouldn't want to either.

    #17 3 years ago

    I wonder if i pluggest left magnet into right plug and vice versa under the mini pf, would this cause these symptoms? Don't think so, but just thought i'd check as this is one possibility im thinking of before i pull it out

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    I wonder if i pluggest left magnet into right plug and vice versa under the mini pf, would this cause these symptoms?

    No. Wuld just cause the left magnet to fire when you hit the right flipper button, and vice-versa.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from robm:

    I wonder if i pluggest left magnet into right plug and vice versa under the mini pf, would this cause these symptoms? Don't think so, but just thought i'd check as this is one possibility im thinking of before i pull it out

    Well....turns out my wild thought was actually correct! After removing the mini playfield I found the plugs were switched. While normally this would be left flipper activate right magnetband vice versa, TZ actually has one magnet wired in pins 2 and 3 and the other on 1 and 3. Since I had then switched around, no signal was getting through!

    Swapped them back and all good! Pic shows the plugs incorrectly located

    20210524_203729 (resized).jpg20210524_203729 (resized).jpg

    #20 3 years ago

    Interesting.. Be curios to see if other TZs are like that. When you purchase magnets (back OEM and now new ones), they weren't wired differently. My Sample has them identical. Be curious to learn more about this.

    Well done, though!

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