(Topic ID: 144467)

TZ dying in middle of game


By STxFarmer

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by ChrisHibler
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Main_Board_voltage_pads.jpg
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#1 4 years ago

New to pinball repair and trying to take care of my issues myself so please bear with me. I have a Twilight Zone that has been sitting for 3 years and finally got help from a local pinball guy that got it up and running. The game is playable with the only error that is constant is Switch 76 Playfield exit optos. Been reading up on that but that isn't my main issue. Seems while playing the game if I hit both flipper buttons it will reset the game. Like it is overloading something and causing the whole game to reset. It only seems to be while both flippers are used at the same time. I do have an issue with the upper left flipper staying energized at times and will see an EOS error for that flipper. So far I have solved a few issues on my own but seems I am stuck on this major issue now.

Any ideas or being pointed in the right direction will be appreciated. Sorry for being so lost but very new at all of this. Hope to learn and solve my Judge Dredd issues next after I get everything on the TZ solved.

#2 4 years ago

Take a look at the wide Z connector in the backbox. Reseat this connection. My game was resetting and that is all that I had to do to fix it.

#3 4 years ago

If I don't post it, someone else willVery common issue on a very common game, you have nothing to worry about. Don't skip steps, post if you need help and one of the smart people here will fix it.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

#4 4 years ago

Resets are common on this system. There is loads of literature on it. Some will say it's bridge rectifiers but more than likely its a case of reseating the short ribbon connector or replacing it or try reseating J114 on the power board. This can can oxidise over time and reseating it can remove it. Ultimately it's the beginning if something failing.

There's also a wonder device you can plug in to stop the resets but ultimately you're only masking a problem.

#5 4 years ago

Very common problem, and can be very annoying. Folloow the guide as posted. I could tell you I reflowed the solder on J102(?) the other day and it fixed it, but that's just one of the many things

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I could tell you I reflowed the solder on J102(?)

Probably J101. That's the source for the eventual 5VDC power.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 4 years ago

OK as in most things that I do sometimes I have no clue as to what fixed it but it was a loose connection somewhere. Went through and reseated as many as I could. Pulled the playfield up to vertical and the game would just reset continually or turn off completely. After I put the playfield back down I pushed and tugged on a few connectors and guess what? The game played over 30 minutes without one reset. Wish I had a clue but have no idea at all.

Now to figure out why the upper flipper stays open and the opto issue! Looks like it will be something most of the time.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from STxFarmer:

After I put the playfield back down I pushed and tugged on a few connectors and guess what? The game played over 30 minutes without one reset.

Sure sure you probably just fixed it for awhile so enjoy it whilst it's working. My DH had this issue and reseating J101 on the driver board, thanks Chris, would fix it for days or even a week, but it would always creep back until I reflowed.
So just look out for that down the road.

#9 4 years ago

Okay have reseated everything from the transformer on that I can think of and find. Got the meter out on measured the voltage on J101 where my manual says it should be 9vac and 13vac. My results are 5.1 and 7.5. On J102 my manual says it should be 16vac and I am measuring 30 and the Black/yellow and 10 on the white/red. I have attached a picture of 2 wires going into my transformer that have been cut. This had to be done after it left the factory and was wondering if this could be part of the issue.

I am taking these readings while the connectors are hooked into the board. Also this is an much newer board than the others and I don't know when it was replaced. It is a Rottendog board. Now when I measure the voltage on the board pads (2nd photo) they are all within 1 volt DC with the exception of the 50v which measures 71v

As you may guess I am still chasing my tail with frustration.

Transformer_wires.jpg

Main_Board_voltage_pads.jpg

#10 4 years ago

You appear to have a replacement driver board, which is good because you likely don't have voltage loss on the board. Which likely leaves you with either connector issues to the driver board, or connector issues to the CPU.

You need to get a DMM and start measuring the 5V circuit and see where you're losing voltage.

Marc

#11 4 years ago

That "hack" the you've pictured is getting around the voltage selection jumpers. Those jumpers (on the other side of the plug) are used to select line voltage. This let WMS sell games in countries that used 230V line voltage systems. It's a hack, but it's OK.
Since you are measuring good voltage on the pads of the RD driver board, I wouldn't worry about what you are measuring at the input connectors. BTW, that's AC voltage at the connectors. You have to measure from (for instance) one red wire to the other red wire, or one blue/white wire to the other blue/white wire.

71V is normal for coil power. You'll see that in every WPC game even though WMS documented it as 50V.

You still need good connections at the board, and this is what you "fixed" previously be reseating them. Get a good crimp tool, the right sized housings, and some .156 crimp on pins (you'll need the one for larger wire sizes), and go to town. Ed at GPE has everything you need.

The board-to-board wire harness connections are very important. TZ also has a "Z Connector" that is often problematic. You'll see it between the driver and MPU boards.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#12 4 years ago

I resolved restarts on my WH20 by reseating - and reversing - the ribbon connector between the Driver Board and MPU board...

#13 4 years ago

there's a dude that makes a little daughter board for 30 bucks. cant remember his name but it works by overcoming design flaws in the power supply if i am not mistaken

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

there's a dude that makes a little daughter board for 30 bucks. cant remember his name but it works by overcoming design flaws in the power supply if i am not mistaken

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announcing-new-product-to-help-resolve-resets-in-wpc-era-games

#17 4 years ago

Note on the Kahr Daughterboard - it may not work if you have both a Rottendog Driver Board and Color DMD.

#18 4 years ago

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it relates directly - I have (had) a IJ, TZ, JD, and CFTBL. All of them reset while playing if more than one is turned on (IJ resets on it's own sometimes). Installed the little daughter boards and it didn't really resolve anything. All of them have been brought to various events at other locations and they have all run just fine, no resets, amongst dozens of other games all sucking juice at the same time. My dilemma - is there truly something wrong with these games or is it just my shitty power? Seems weird that they reset in my house but not out at other locations...

#19 4 years ago

That's related to your "shitty power"...

#20 4 years ago

Went through my connectors again and I think it was the Z connector. Cleaned it up and reseated it and it runs like a champ. Guess I will remove it once I get a little further down the line. A few more issues to fix on the TZ

Tks for all the help

#21 4 years ago

Reseating J101, J102, J114 on the driver board and J210 at the MPU and the z connector (if machine has one) resolved almost every WPC game I have. As ones start resetting more often, I repin the connector(s) that feel like they plug in looser than the others and resolder the male pins on the back of the boards.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

My dilemma - is there truly something wrong with these games or is it just my shitty power? Seems weird that they reset in my house but not out at other locations...

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Check that out...step one might be illuminating.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

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