(Topic ID: 35489)

TZ color changing door mod now left side flippers out of sync

By drshaw

11 years ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by drshaw
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#1 11 years ago

After installing the cointaker color changing door mod, I started to notice after a few games, that the upper left flipper was firing a millisecond slower and out of sync than before. I didn't think it was the door mod, or that they were related, but I couldn't figure anything out so I started testing and I can verify, when I fully depress the flipper button, the upper left flipper isn't quite in sync when I have the color changing door mod on. When I turn off the mod, it seems that the flipper is back in sync and a fully depressed button fires in sync with the bottom left flipper. It's pretty obvious and instantaneously affected by the mod. On = a hair out of sync and sometimes weak and not a full fire. Off = normal left side flipper activity.

So the mod gets +12volt from the pcb just underneath the left flipper (which also powers the coin door lamps and switches). Does that board have anything to do with the flipper system in a TZ?

Could there possibly be a correlation between the door mod and the flipper system? Why would having the mod on affect the left flipper system but not the right? Any thoughts or am I crazy?

#2 11 years ago

Does TZ use optos on the flippers? I think so. And if so, the led light could be futzing with it. Try blocking the light inside the cabinet over the switch assembly.

#3 11 years ago

Thanks for your response. The LED strips are installed behind the translite but in front of the white wood that holds the translit lamps. Not sure how the LED light would be hitting anything on the flipper opto's. I've even tested with the translite removed and the white door swung all the way open and the problem remains.

Bump for any other ideas?

#4 11 years ago

It sounds like it is a coincidence.Your opto board may need to be tuned or changed.

#5 11 years ago

Oh, I see, I thought they were under the door on the playfield. Could be a voltage issue then. does the problem remain if you revert?

#6 11 years ago

If I unplug the door mod, the problem goes away completely. As soon as I plug it back in, the flippers are out of sync on the left hand side. The upper flipper fires a little late and it sounds like a quick 1-2 click when the flippers fully extend instead of fully in sync extension.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from drshaw:

After installing the cointaker color changing door mod, I started to notice after a few games, that the upper left flipper was firing a hundred milliseconds slower and out of sync than before.

Fixed that to something actually believable that you'd notice.

#8 11 years ago

Haha thanks. It is really noticeable. I may take some video of it tonight.

#9 11 years ago

Can anybody tell me how exactly to test 12v with my DMM and where on the boards? I'm wondering if the 12v dips when I have the door mod on. I'd like to test all the spots along the chain to see if I'm getting a good 12 volts. But I'm pretty new at this. I can follow directions like a champ. I'd like to test the power driver board, the opto board (what is the board at the top left of the backbox?). Then eventually I'd like to test the coils (all with mod on and mod off).

1 week later
#10 11 years ago

PROGRESS!!! I had all 4 flippers completely rebuilt.. new coils, stops, arms, eos switches, springs... the works (this was good anyways because one coil had a diode missing and all 4 coils were completely heat stressed where I could not get the coil sleeve out).

But, the problem remained. If I turned on the door mod, the left side flippers became out of sync and weaker instantly the upper left would be weaker.

So I swapped the flipper opto boards from left to right and guess what, now the right side has the problem and the left side is fine!!! Problem found. So here is my question. Should I order new opto boards and if so which of the following?
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=794
or
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-17316-GLM
or
??????

The original part is: A-15878
Can I manually repair the circuit board and if so, where should I be checking? I've cleaned the black opto and interrupter but still no dice.

Does anybody have one or two of the originals they'd be willing to sell me or am I better off with an option above? Thanks again for all the help!

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from drshaw:

PROGRESS!!! I had all 4 flippers completely rebuilt.. new coils, stops, arms, eos switches, springs... the works (this was good anyways because one coil had a diode missing and all 4 coils were completely heat stressed where I could not get the coil sleeve out).
But, the problem remained. If I turned on the door mod, the left side flippers became out of sync and weaker instantly the upper left would be weaker.
So I swapped the flipper opto boards from left to right and guess what, now the right side has the problem and the left side is fine!!! Problem found. So here is my question. Should I order new opto boards and if so which of the following?
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=794
or
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-17316-GLM
or
??????
The original part is: A-15878
Can I manually repair the circuit board and if so, where should I be checking? I've cleaned the black opto and interrupter but still no dice.
Does anybody have one or two of the originals they'd be willing to sell me or am I better off with an option above? Thanks again for all the help!

Have you tried cleaning the optos? Just a thought.

#12 11 years ago

I had the magnet flipper boards for awhile and hated them. (Marco's style).
I finally found someplace that had the old style opto boards and I will never go back.
The magnets were forever moving and needing adjusting. Even tried the glue trick with no luck.
I suggest tracking down the original style or I will sell you my magnet boards for a huge discount.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I had the magnet flipper boards for awhile and hated them. (Marco's style).
I finally found someplace that had the old style opto boards and I will never go back.
The magnets were forever moving and needing adjusting. Even tried the glue trick with no luck.
I suggest tracking down the original style or I will sell you my magnet boards for a huge discount.

Hmm... have you tried the mad-amusement ones or are they the same. What about these:
ebay.com link: Bally Williams WMS Pinball PCB Board A 15878 Flipper x2

#14 11 years ago

Those are expensive and in Australia.
Some local parts company here had them for much less.
I am at work and do not have time to search at the moment.
I'm sure somebody will chime in before I get home later.

#15 11 years ago

I just received a Type 2 flipper opto board from K's arcade. They appear to have Type 1 boards in stock as well.

#16 11 years ago

So I guess trying to manually repair the board isn't worth the trouble... Just wonder if it's a simple diode or something.

Quoted from rad:

I just received a Type 2 flipper opto board from K's arcade. They appear to have Type 1 boards in stock as well.

Is this what you're referring to? http://ksarcade.net/optos-1/type-1-flipper-opto-board-a-15878.html It appears to be a rebuilt one but I assume it functions exactly the same as the original part? Is the actuator hard to transfer?

#17 11 years ago

yes - I'm referring to that board. the interrupter/actuator should just bolt on (should be able to transfer it from the original board). Marco sells the actuator if needed. K's might also. By the way, K's shipping was quick on my Type 2 board.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-11250

#18 11 years ago

but, before you order, let's let an expert opine as I am definitely not an expert.

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from drshaw:

So I guess trying to manually repair the board isn't worth the trouble... Just wonder if it's a simple diode or something.

Is this what you're referring to? http://ksarcade.net/optos-1/type-1-flipper-opto-board-a-15878.html It appears to be a rebuilt one but I assume it functions exactly the same as the original part? Is the actuator hard to transfer?

That is what I used.
The acutator is very easy to move from one board to another.

#20 11 years ago

Okay I ordered two because I want them to be the same and feel the same. I'll look to get my existing one repaired and then have a spare set.

#21 11 years ago

While I wait for shipping, I've heard you can solder together pins 1 & 2 on the old flipper opto (just but a solder link between the two on the back of the board on the connector) and that will make both flippers work together with the same trigger. Is that true and something to consider doing?

#22 11 years ago

I tried that on a Type 2 board (pin is a WCS94) and it didn't work for some reason. It rendered both optos inoperable (couldn't get either opto to register). I really wanted it to work (solder the pins together) as WCS94 only has one flipper on each side and I was getting a stupid switch error message for a second right flipper that didn't exist.

So, it didn't work for me and I removed the solder link (jumper) and the one opto resumed work properly and the second one was still dead.

#23 11 years ago

hmm weird. Talking with Ray @ Action Pinball and it sounds like he does it all the time. I guess since I have new ones coming it wouldn't hurt to try. Anybody else have input?

#24 11 years ago

I was surprised it didn't work when I jumpered it. Ray at Action would know, so maybe there is some other problem going on with the Type 2 board I have and the Optos/other components.

3 weeks later
#25 11 years ago

Just to put some closure on this thread, it definitely ended up being my Type 1 flipper opto. Even after swapping the opto elements on the "bad board". A new Type 1 flipper from K's Arcade completely resolved the issue.

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