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(Topic ID: 176322)

TZ "Check Fuses F114 and F115" Issue w/ a Twist


By sturner

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by 27dnast
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

The other day I booted up TZ and got a message saying "Check Fuses F114 and F115". This seems to be a somewhat common issue and rather well documented. I'm still more or less a novice at diagnosing and fixing this stuff so hopefully this makes sense. I started with the PinWiki section on this issue:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message

F115 fuse had blown. I replaced it and it immediately blew again. LED6 was lit but LED1 was not. So I checked D1 and D2 diodes. I think I did it right by going to the continuity/diode setting and touching each end. One way gave a reading and the other nothing which I believe is what's suppose to happen.

I then wanted to rule out the MPU (someone had mentioned this as a potential issue in a thread here I looked up). I disconnected the J210 connector on that board and replaced the fuse F115 fuse on the power board. Turned it on and the fuse didn't blow. LED1 was also was lit. The PinWiki implied that this means it's an issue with the MPU. I have a brand new Rottendog MPU board handy and swap it in. It works! I start up a game and on the 3rd ball the game starts doing some funky stuff. Not recognizing shots and so on, then the "Check Fuses F114 and F115" message pops up again. Fuse F115 has blown and LED1 is no longer lit.

So I'm fairly confused. Removing J210 and everything works fine I'm told would make this an MPU issue. But odds of both boards (including a new Rottendog board) having the same issue seems slim. I guess at worst I'm trying to figure out where the likely culprit lies. I'm not sure I could handle board work yet but at least knowing which one has the issue would be great. Or if something else could be causing the issue on the machine. Any help would be much appreciated!

#2 3 years ago

First find the cause why the fuse blew before you swap a new MPU board.
This has all symptoms that the switch-matrix has a (n intermittent) short with a power source.

check/replace U20 on both MPU boards, but don't start a game before you found the problem.

#3 3 years ago

Plus one. Something is causing the fuse to blow. Take your time and find it before you fry a spare MPU.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from sturner:

So I'm fairly confused. Removing J210 and everything works fine I'm told would make this an MPU issue. But odds of both boards (including a new Rottendog board) having the same issue seems slim. I guess at worst I'm trying to figure out where the likely culprit lies. I'm not sure I could handle board work yet but at least knowing which one has the issue would be great. Or if something else could be causing the issue on the machine. Any help would be much appreciated!

I don't think that's a fully true statement, it's making assumptions that one of U18, U19, U20 are blown, and that there are no other shorts downstream on the switch matrix. But the way one usually blows U18, U19, U20 is that there is a short on the switch matrix to either the lamp, GI, or solenoid power.

So you really need to find the short in the switch matrix on the playfield, then replace the failed U18, U19, or U20 (most probable), then replace the fuse.

The only thing you did was put in a good MPU, played a game, which when the ball hit the right spot, shorted a switch to some other power source, and you blew another U20 or a second MPU. Thus the crux of the statement is right about J210, if the fuse blows immediately with J210 plugged in, but doesn't blow with it removed, then the MPU has a bad chip. BUT, you never solved why the MPU has a bad chip to begin with.... Which is why replacing the board only got you a second bad board.

#5 3 years ago

Thank you for your help on this. I now realize it was dumb to swap in a new MPU without figuring out the short. Never had a problem like this before and still sort of new to this.

Is there a guide somewhere on how to test for a short on the switch matrix? I have an idea where it's at on the playfield but not sure what the best method is for proceeding.

1 week later
#6 3 years ago

Pinball Ninja recently did a repair on the F114/F115 error. Maybe check out pinrepair.com. I think it's like a $20 donation for access.

3 weeks later
#7 3 years ago

The problem appears to be solved. It was tricky and I needed to call out a local repair guy to help. Even he struggled the find the problem and decided to take the machine home with him (said it was one of the few times he had ever done that).

Apparently a coil in the upper part of the playfield was installed upside down a long time ago. Over time the coil slowly had gotten loose and the lead was touching the metal stop. This caused the ramps and some other stuff to become electrified. Game would play fine for a little while and then at some point when that voltage would come in contact with something it would blow out U20 on the MPU.

I guess this is why it's important to install your coils the right way. Anyways, figured I'd follow up so that someone in the future searching for problems can see what the issue was here. Also attached a photo.

unnamed (resized).jpg

#8 3 years ago

Nice work!

#9 3 years ago

That coil installation issue is a fairly common problem on Williams games. Even on williams EMs, the coils have to be installed correctly or this problem occurs.

#10 3 years ago

Thatnks for closing the loop on this... this is what makes pinside great.

Glad your game is back!

#11 3 years ago

Thanks for sharing this info! I'm fairly positive someone will need this in the future, if not Twilight zone then something else for sure

#12 3 years ago

Though i know this has nothing to do with a WPC game, here's a video on the same problem but on a Williams EM.

#13 3 years ago

Ha! Nice find!
Is that the ramp diverter coil? Makes sense that the metal would become electrified from that and the sort to a switch hammer connected to that metal.

May I use your pic for the PinWiki. That's a good one to add.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#14 3 years ago

Yes, feel free to use it. And yes it's the ramp diverter coil.

I should note that the repair guy (http://ricksgamerepair.com/) was the one who found it and fixed it. It was tricky because the game would play fine for awhlie before the ball would hit the right spot to cause it to blow out the board. He figured it out by zapping himself touching the ramp when poking around the machine apparently.

#15 3 years ago

Ouch.... that's a tough way to find a problem!

#16 3 years ago

Thanks! I've seen similar "electrification" on a Corvette where a coil wrapper had worn through.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Thanks! I've seen similar "electrification" on a Corvette where a coil wrapper had worn through.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Chris -

When you re-wrap a coil, what do you use to glue/stick the wrapper?

(by the way, was doing some work this AM and listened to an old Silverball Podcast featuring your interview... great stuff... any chance that your seminar on EM schematics still on the net?)

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Chris -
When you re-wrap a coil, what do you use to glue/stick the wrapper?
(by the way, was doing some work this AM and listened to an old Silverball Podcast featuring your interview... great stuff... any chance that your seminar on EM schematics still on the net?)

Seems like that would be an easy answer but it's not. Coil wrappers =should= be flame proof. Since I was doing only my own, I used 3M 427P on the back of the wrappers. Looks good. Not flame proof.

I think I still have that presentation somewhere. That was fun to do. Wish the video would have come out. Oh well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Seems like that would be an easy answer but it's not. Coil wrappers =should= be flame proof. Since I was doing only my own, I used 3M 427P on the back of the wrappers. Looks good. Not flame proof.
I think I still have that presentation somewhere. That was fun to do. Wish the video would have come out. Oh well.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

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