Then the game is not set up correctly, the slot scoop should be trappable.

If the game allows you to gain ball control there is no need for a ball save. On TZ if you go for the skill shot and the ball gets shot into the pops the player is choosing that risk, giving them a ball save negates that strategic element.

I agree some games do not allow a player a chance to gain control in which case I understand having a ball save but TZ is not one of them.

TZ is designed so that the ball can be controlled from the start, there is no randomness to it if the game is set up properly.

Slob on pat's nob much? I think pinball doesn't start for you till Pat Lawlor came on the scene. funhouse is wpc.

Actually I'm not that big of a lawlor fan. I don't own or want any of those three games. I never said I like them. I said they don't suck like the rest. You can't see the difference?

Pinball games also used to be 5 balls instead of 3. Losing one ball SDTM immediately is less of an impact when it's one of 5 instead of one of 3.

Also, pretty much every machine that does automated scoring gives you the ball back if you score 0 points; after all, the machine can't tell the difference between a ball that bounced around the playfield without scoring anything and a failed kickout into the shooter lane.

The very first machine with a ball save? That would be Laser Cue from 1984 where the ball save was only active on extra balls, but for a generous 25 seconds (counted down for you in the 2-digit ball in play).

Really? Why not? I have played many a game that started with an insta-drain, and gotten great scores.
Resetting a game after a bad ball is for the weak. I have game restart turned off on all my games=play it out!
But..., if you do have restart enabled(on TZ), and have a bad ball, hold the start button to restart while plunging ball to the skill shot scoop, when timed right it gives a slot machine award to start your next (cheating) game.
As far as TZ having no factory ball save, that would be to prevent players from draining on purpose to get the powerball out of the ball trough, and ballsave SHOULD be OFF for that reason.

LOL, you should bring this up if you ever go to a PAPA tournament. It may shock pinsiders to hear that there are a lot of pinheads that WANT games to be set up very hard with low flippers on TZ, wide open out lanes and hard to predict kickouts.

In most all competitive pinball environments, shorter ball times are ideal and quite often essential to a successful event.

So games are altered so they are more difficult than originally designed?

It depends on the division / game but yes, certain games are bastardized to make them more difficult and get shorter ball times.

Of course. Don;t expect to see that middle post in Whirlwind or Spiderman in a tournament.

Sometimes it can be tempting. Lord knows I've reset the game many times after a terrible ball 1 and 2. However I shall never reset after a bad ball 1 anymore after I got my high score of 5.6 billion after about 10 million on ball 1.

Also just wanted to chime in on the ball saver. Sorry if I'm repeating something already said. Personally I am not a fan of the ball saver for the most part. My dad is the self proclaimed skill shot master "There's another tenner!!!" so he tends to get more use out of it. Now with the new chip, we have ball saver on every ball which is kind of sad in my opinion. However I do like it on the first ball so it doesn't completely discourage me from trying for the skill shot (and getting that door panel). When it comes to the Skill Shot door panel, those pop bumpers piss me off to no end. My favorite is when you have multiball ready you hit the "Light outlanes" on your skill shot and immediately drain. To avoid that it's important to shake the ball out of the rocket launcher after a made skill shot and let it fall to your flippers or drain because your ball will be saved, but that's easier said than done without tilting. I would absolutely love to have a true ball saver after a made skill shot! It would make my day.

My argument for ball save was to keep the game fun not frustrating. Why are you guys bringing up tournaments? Tournaments aren't set up for fun. Give me a break.

I just really want to know why your RBION has a ball save past ball 1.

It was on topic. The more informed your are on a subject, the better discussion(s) can be had as to why a ball saver exists in the first place.

TZ ball save is called"free ride"in the adjustments.

This. Plus, my nieces and nephews play my TZ and the oldest one is thirteen with the rest of them under ten. Surprisingly, they don't have the quickest of reflexes. Either that, or their lost admiring the artwork on the playfield.

If there was no ball save, especially on the first one, they'd get discouraged very fast and move on to something else, something that's not pinball. What do you tell an 8 year old you're trying to get to appreciate and enjoy pinball when they get the red skill shot(I got them started on the skill shot from "ball one"), it shoots over into the hitchhiker and pop bumpers and insta-drains without them even getting the chance to hit the ball with the flippers? Have you ever had to answer a kid who looks up at you after that happens and they have a look on their face like you just stole their candy?

Thankfully, they've played it so much now, that they know about the ball save and that it's only on ball one. If one of them is over to stay the night, they usually play for about a half hour to forty-five minutes straight, then ask me to play with them for a few games. They LOVE multiball!

yep...makes sense

Funhouse is a WPC, not a Sys11.

Tell them to shoot all the way to the scoop so they get the ball to the flippers.
Skill shot on TZ is only good for the 10million panel, and EB on super skill.

True, but the spring in my plunger is so stupid stiff that if it were on a TAF, you could pull it back all the way and insta-drain zooming through the graveyard. I saw one of my nieces pulling it back all the way and rocketing it into the scoop. I quickly taught her about the skill shot since I didn't want to find out what a broken powerball looks like!

The spring on the plunger should have very little power on TZ.

I'd like to a see ball save on every ball for TZ. When my friends and family play that have liitle experience walk away frustrated clenching their fists saying 'three balls and I hit it one time!', it makes me want a ball save. TZ is not an easy game for most. If you're not skilled at flipper and ball control, as most that play my TZ are not, it's just a bunch of flailing that ends up with the ball down the middle or outlanes.

Skill shot. I never use the skill shot. A left ramp, right ramp, drop and shot into the piano gives you the same 10 mil., lights lock, gumball and ejects the ball to the right flipper. Safer play, imo.

I almost always go for skill shot...need them Hitchhikers. Hmm...I haven't had a triple pick up in a long long time.

The 4 way is the hard one.

I actually think the ball save is necessary because without it, the skill shot is pointless. I know there is a good case for not using it even with the ball save, but it at least puts that option in play for people.