(Topic ID: 327472)

TX Sector system 80b coil locked on

By FatPanda

1 year ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by FatPanda
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#1 1 year ago

New game, new learning opportunity for me. Yay!

The long and short of it. Just acquired a TX Sector with a locked coil. I think the manual calls it coil 2 but I can't make heads or tails of how it's labeled. It's the lower left saucer kickout coil.

Anyway, it locks on immediately at power up.

The game has a Swemmer MPU, and a Ni-Wumpf Solenoid Driver Board. The LED indicator on the SDB lights E2 and E10, but as I understand it E10 will always be lit.

When I manually pull Relay S, the coil de-energizes.

I just started poking at it yesterday and haven't had too much of a chance to dig into the schematics.

I guess first would be good to know is if Relay S should be energized on power up?

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#2 1 year ago

Did you check the switch associated with the kickout hole? Until you resolve the coil problem you might want to consider lifting one of the coil wires. I would leave the relay alone. With the coil disconnected does the game play?

#3 1 year ago

Sorry not a switch problem as the coil activates immediately after power up.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

Sorry not a switch problem as the coil activates immediately after power up.

I did check the switch and it's a new switch, and as you noted, the coil locks immediately on power up. Noted re: the relay.

Do you know what the E2 LED being lit means and what it is associated with?

#5 1 year ago

It's not the relay. What does the schematic indicate the function of the "A" Relay? The light indicates that coil is active. Disconnect one of the wires on the coil. Does the game work with the kick-out coil disconnected? Does the E2 lamp light with the coil disconnected? With your multimeter check check the coil diode -- you will have to lift one side - bad coil diode may the the cause of the problem, but not the solution. Possible root cause, bad RF530 (shorted to ground) Check with multimeter.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

It's not the relay. What does the schematic indicate the function of the "A" Relay? The light indicates that coil is active. Disconnect one of the wires on the coil. Does the game work with the kick-out coil disconnected? Does the E2 lamp light with the coil disconnected? With your multimeter check check the coil diode -- you will have to lift one side - bad coil diode may the the cause of the problem, but not the solution. Possible root cause, bad RF530 (shorted to ground) Check with multimeter.

So the E2 light is indicating that the A relay is active? Should it be? The E2 light is lit with the coil disconnected.

The game goes into attract mode and I can get into the Test menu. I clipped a wire on the solenoid to do this of course.

I've replaced the diode on the coil, but not the transistor. I believe it is Q58 that is affected. It looked like it was replaced already, two of them actually. I've ordered new transistors FQP13n10 and will replace both the diode and transistors at the same time.

What is RF530?

#7 1 year ago

Ordered some more FQP13n10 MOSFETs because thats what is on the board. It looks like (per the manual) solenoid 2 is controlled by Q57 and Q58 so I'll be testing/replacing those two plus the diode on the coil all at once, whenever the parts come in.

Let me know if im reading the schematics wrong

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#8 1 year ago

I just had a look at the Ni-Wumpf web site.

Under the System 80 driver board features, it says the following:

"And finally, where the original board had solenoid 1 - 9 output transistors, this board has FETs QS1 - QS9. In this way, the user can follow the original schematics when troubleshooting the board."

http://www.ni-wumpf.com/System80Driver.html

So the way I read it is solenoid 2 is driven by the FET at QS2. Might explain why the E2 LED is lit.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

I just had a look at the Ni-Wumpf web site.
Under the System 80 driver board features, it says the following:
"And finally, where the original board had solenoid 1 - 9 output transistors, this board has FETs QS1 - QS9. In this way, the user can follow the original schematics when troubleshooting the board."
http://www.ni-wumpf.com/System80Driver.html
So the way I read it is solenoid 2 is driven by the FET at QS2. Might explain why the E2 LED is lit.

I saw that too, and was making an educated guess initially that was the culprit. However, I've been told by the previous owner that he has replaced it, and it'll play well for a while, but then malfunction for no apparent reason.

Similarly, I had this problem with Joker Poker. The knocker coil would lock upon power up, I would replace the associated transistor and diode on the coil, it would play fine for a time, then it would lock up with no apparent cause.

Any thoughts as to why that might be?

#10 1 year ago

Never seen or worked on these boards or system 80B for that matter.

But the playfield schematic says solenoid 2 also drives the "Right Teleport Active" lamps. Are these lamps coming on when you pull the S relay? I don't imagine the light circuitry would cause the FET to blow though.

Have you checked if the in-series diode D4 on the switching diode board is shorted?

Did the previous owner mention if they replaced the coil diode?

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#11 1 year ago

I am a bit surprised not to see any Logic Level FET's on that driverboard. Did they do something different to control the FET's?

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Never seen or worked on these boards or system 80B for that matter.
But the playfield schematic says solenoid 2 also drives the "Right Teleport Active" lamps. Are these lamps coming on when you pull the S relay? I don't imagine the light circuitry would cause the FET to blow though.
Have you checked if the in-series diode D4 on the switching diode board is shorted?
Did the previous owner mention if they replaced the coil diode?
[quoted image]

This is my first time working on these games as well

In the manual, they do note that the "S" relay, when off, the "solenoids" will instead light flashers. When I manually pull the S Relay, the flashers on the right do light up as indicated.

The previous owner did mention changing out the coil diode. I clipped the leg to test it and it tested ok, but I will likely replace it anyway when I get the replacement FETs in.

I have not checked the D4 switching diodes specifically. I did reflow solder to the connectors, but didn't do much else investigating on it. I can check and report back.

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#13 1 year ago

Diode D4 tested good. I took it out of circuit and it showed .44V one way and 0L the other way. I compared it with known working D6 and it reads similarly.

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#14 1 year ago

I would check the resistance of the coil. Double check that the coil wiring is oriented correctly with the incoming power wire to the lug with diode striped end.

Does the game play correctly with the kick-out coil disconnected? When you perform diagnostics on switches and solenoids do you note any irregularities?

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

I would check the resistance of the coil. Double check that the coil wiring is oriented correctly with the incoming power wire to the lug with diode striped end.
Does the game play correctly with the kick-out coil disconnected? When you perform diagnostics on switches and solenoids do you note any irregularities?

I did check resistance on the coil and it was consistent with another of the same. I will double check that it is wired correctly.

It plays perfectly fine with the coil disconnected. All of the solenoids fire in test, with exception of the disconnected coil obviously and all switches are opened, so no issues there.

#16 1 year ago

This is the suspect coil. Wire color code is 288, which is Red-Gray-Gray on the non-banded side of the diode. Looks like it was wired up correctly.

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#17 1 year ago

I would swap that coil with the one at the lower right side kickout. A future failure will tell you if it was that coil or not.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

I would swap that coil with the one at the lower right side kickout. A future failure will tell you if it was that coil or not.

That's a good thought. I'm going to leave it for now until I get it working again. Parts don't come until Monday so hoping by then, I can get the transistors and diode swapped and get back into action! Then I'll do the coil swap.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Parts don't come until Monday so hoping by then, I can get the transistors and diode swapped and get back into action! Then I'll do the coil swap.

Cool, BTW the coil is an A-5195 and not something else (wrong coil)?

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Cool, BTW the coil is an A-5195 and not something else (wrong coil)?

Im not sure. I'd have to check the manual and coil. It looks to be an original coil but I never checked.

#21 1 year ago

The coil is A-5195, and the other kickout holes have the same coil.

#22 1 year ago

Replaced the 2 mosfets, replaced the diode on the coil. Everything works well. The LEDs on the driver board light up appropriately, everything works in test. We are good for now...

I may or may not swap the coil. I'm feeling lazy right now lol.

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