(Topic ID: 165323)

"Two outta three ain't bad" apparently...

By SkyKing2301

7 years ago


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UPF-LPB-3_(resized).jpg
UPF-LPB-2_(resized).jpg
UPF-LPB-1_(resized).jpg
#1 7 years ago

**UPDATE: What I initially thought was simple laziness and/or lack of soldering ability by a previous owner actually turned out to have been a temporary mitigation of a legitimate issue (fried transistor), which I have now repaired.
------------OP below--------------

I considered putting this under "worst hacks", but it's not even a hack. Just a big ol' facepalm.

I picked up a Black Knight 2000 last weekend. After resurrecting it by replacing the corroded battery holder, I went through the diagnostics. On the solenoid test, I found one of the upper playfield pop bumpers wasn't firing.

While I had the playfield up today, I decided to peek at the hardware for that pop bumper for anything obvious.

Well, sure, here's why it's not working ... the wires appears to have broken off:
UPF-LPB-1_(resized).jpgUPF-LPB-1_(resized).jpg

So ... where are the loose ends of the wire? Looked around up in there, found a pair of red/white wires tucked up out of sight, pulled them down ... oh, hello!
UPF-LPB-2_(resized).jpgUPF-LPB-2_(resized).jpg

...I guess two-outta-three functional pop bumpers was "good enough" for them.

#2 7 years ago

They were cut for a reason. Bad coil, locked on, type stuff.

You are three outta four.

LTG : )

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

They were cut for a reason. Bad coil, locked on, type stuff.

Good thought, especially looking more closely at the "break" -- definitely a cut, seeing how well the inner strands line up.

Should I solder it back on to see how it behaves, to better troubleshoot?

#4 7 years ago

I give it a 95% chance it's a bad transistor that locked the coil on. If that's the case here they did you a huge favor here, they didn't just let the coil melt. They cut the wires close to the coil and they didn't wrap the wires in duct tape to insulate them. Heck, you might actually want to buy the previous owner a beer.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from SkyKing2301: Should I solder it back on to see how it behaves, to better troubleshoot?

I would do the quick and dirty transistor check first.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from Mamushka:

I would do the quick and dirty transistor check first.

Well, well, well ... looky here:

UPF-LPB-3_(resized).jpgUPF-LPB-3_(resized).jpg

This is Q75, which I found in the schematics goes to the "snipped" pop bumper. Fantastic, thanks for the tip!

So now, a technical question: I have some spare TIP122 transistors here among my repair parts ... but the schematic has a note related to Q75, which reads, "SPECIAL SELECTED TIP122 FOR WILLIAMS, P/N 5162-09410-00" ... what's special about this? Are my "standard" TIP122 transistors no good to replace Q75?

#7 7 years ago

I doubt there is any difference, but I'd replace it with a 102 anyway if I had one handy. Also, check that pre-driver transitor Q74.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from johninc:

I doubt there is any difference, but I'd replace it with a 102 anyway if I had one handy. Also, check that pre-driver transitor Q74.

Oh sweet, the ones I have are 102, not 122. Will do some surgery later when I get to it.

Re: Q74 -- measuring in diode mode from middle to either outside leg yields approx same value, and both outside legs together gives a 1.5xxsomething value (no beep), so I think this one's okay.

#9 7 years ago

You should be good, you can compare it to other 4401s (or whatever it is) on the board.

#10 7 years ago

Ok I'll let you know how it goes after transistor R&R surgery -- not sure when I'll get to it. Stay tuned!

#11 7 years ago

Coming in late but a good thread with good analysis. As I was reading I also instantly saw the coil wire was cut. So let me add to this a little. You may want to check the resistance on that coil. If it heated it could burn a short and you will be going through this again. Also from the heat I would check that the coil sleeve can easily be removed. If not it heated enough to warp.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Coming in late but a good thread with good analysis. As I was reading I also instantly saw the coil wire was cut. So let me add to this a little. You may want to check the resistance on that coil. If it heated it could burn a short and you will be going through this again. Also from the heat I would check that the coil sleeve can easily be removed. If not it heated enough to warp.

Good tips, thanks. Presumably, the resistance should be equivalent to the other two bumpers' coils, so I'll have a look at that when I go diving back in there. Had to close up the machine for the day due to other priorities.

#14 7 years ago

Ok ... checked out the coil resistance and manual functionality, compared it to the other two, everything seemed to be fine.

Had a few minutes to do the surgery -- wife went out for a bit and the kids are watching a movie. Removed the old transistor, installed new one, reinstalled board, re-connected the bumper wires, and fired it up.

Bumper did NOT lock on immediately. Good sign.
Went through coil test, bumper operates properly.
Went to switch edge test. Switch operates properly.

SUCCESS!!! Thank you all!

Boy am I glad I posted what I thought would just be funny. Thanks guys! Now onto my Switch Matrix Column issue.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from SkyKing2301:

...
Boy am I glad I posted what thought would just be funny. Thanks guys! Now onto my Switch Matrix Column issue.

Good news. I'll try to read through it later. But first thought is to check the column wire in the connector and then a continuity check from that connector to the same wire on any of those switches on the playfield. If there is continuity it might be a board / switch matrix issue. If not find the broken wire.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Good news. I'll try to read through it later. But first thought is to check the column wire in the connector and then a continuity check from that connector to the same wire on any of those switches on the playfield. If there is continuity it might be a board / switch matrix issue. If not find the broken wire.

Yup, you'll see when you read that one later, just finished doing that a few minutes ago. Good continuity from all switches back to the connector in the backbox. Let's have all future discussion on that one over in that thread. Thanks!

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