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(Topic ID: 149937)

Twisted Pins - BEWARE!


By PinballRevival

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 111 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by northvibe
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    Rick has said it's not their problem. They have attempted to contact Twisted Pins but anything more than that, they can't do.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-ideas-for-white-water-topper/page/2#post-2736645

    To be clear that's Rick saying it's not his problem (or at least not his liability) when a licensee messes up its business. If he made that same claim as to MMR distributors that's a much bigger problem (he made a big deal up front of the fact that all preorder money would be collected from the distributors to avoid an Australian WOZ type situation, so I doubt he'd play it otherwise and if he did, he'd have some legal exposure IMO based on his prior statements).

    1 month later
    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from sd_tom:

    Ugh feel bad for people in on a MMr with him.. Sounds like the Australia situation with a JJP distributor all over again.

    If the MMR preorder folks end up getting screwed somehow, I'd recommend taking a close look back at Rick's early posts about how cash would be handled. My recollection is he said he (or CGC, though I don't think the full extent of their role was advertised early on) would be collecting all the preorder money to avoid precisely this problem. If that didn't end up happening, and Twisted Pins cannot account for the money, I think you'd have a pretty good argument that PPS/CGC should cover the loss of your deposit.

    1 week later
    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from Farb:

    Rick has unfortunately made it clear that there's not much he can do. Thus far, I've been unable to get in touch with anyone at Chicago Gaming but will keep trying on that front.
    I'm also pulling together as many Twisted Pins customers as I can (I have a few so far) that have money in on MMr so we can take action as a group if it turns out we've been swindled. I'm hoping it won't come to that but it's always good to be prepared. Let's pray the only thing Travis is guilty of is atrocious communication.

    I would seriously recommend taking a look back at Rick's early assurances here at Pinside about how money would be handled. If PPS/CGC have changed their tune and are trying to palm it off on the distributors they should be held to account for the promises they made that led people to feel safe buying through distributors in the first place.

    1 week later
    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from viper001:

    You don't have to look far for a statement from Rick about who has the deposit money. His last post just a week ago on his own forums makes it clear that CGC was sent (at least) the deposit money for the Twisted Pin MMr preorder games. He alludes to the fact that they don't have names associated with that money from a customer standpoint, but then sorting out such things is what lawyers are good at. I suspect they will be involved before this is all over with.
    Rick probably can't legally be held accountable for a failure in his distributor network but this is yet another example of these long term pre-order deals are a bad deal for the buyer. It requires that each distributor continue to be a viable business during the entire production process, and the fact is that businesses fail. When that happens it would be best that they don't go down holding onto other folks money that they have had for a couple of years.

    If Rick is posting that he in fact has all of the Twisted Pins down payment money that's great news for those that preordered there, at least the money is still around. I thought the whole point of PPS' distributor model was that they hold the money so no one gets hurt if an individual distributor fails. Of course of PPS doesn't have any record of who payed what that seems like a significant flaw in the system ...

    #59 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

    I got my MMr through TP, and he was holding the money minus the 1k deposit. This is looking bad for the rest of you, I learned my lesson and will not pre-order again, ever

    Rick had the initial $1000 and Twisted Pins had the rest? Who covered the shortfall?

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from sd_tom:

    I do not mean this in a hindsight 20/20 type way but wondering why people would of bought the game from anyone other than PPS? It's different with Stern where you cannot buy direct.. But this case you could buy direct (well we thought PPS was running the show back then) or distributor.. Why add a middle man when it wasn't mandatory? Or did PPS run out of game alotment for themselves? I know it was a crazy few weeks there at the beginning.

    It was a crazy few weeks and PPS initially "sold out" very quickly. Also I think I remember reading that Twisted Pins offered free shipping to some (maybe that's wrong though). Also Rick offered assurances that PPS would hold deposit money so no perceived risk in ordering through distributors.

    6 months later
    #110 4 years ago
    Quoted from dnieter:

    I paid my $1000 and didn't get s#(t...

    Maybe this has been addressed already in this thread and I missed it. But wasn't CGC/PPS supposed to be holding the deposit money, not the distributors? I found the following in the "MMR FAQ" on PPS' website:

    Q: When and how do I have to pay?
    A: There is a $1000 deposit required for the MMR that is placed with the distributor who then forwards that $1000 to PPS to constitute an ordered game. Deposits are refundable in the event for any reason the game is not produced. The MMR LE Deposit is refundable up thru the point at which WMS approves the game (expected end of 2013), at which point the procurement of parts for the game occurs. For the MMR STD, a deposit received will determine where in the production sequence the customer is to get their game (deposit received to PPS, which customers must request that any distributor insure that their deposit has been forwarded to PPS), as well as to insure that there is a valid order for the game. The customer is then reponsible to pay the balance due to the distributor for the game,1-2 weeks before the game is ready to ship.

    http://www.planetarypinball.com/category/mmr-faq/

    So is the story that Twisted Pins took $1,000 deposits from buyers ~ three years ago, but never reported it to CGC/PPS? I.e. Twisted Pins just kept their deposit money knowing from day one that no game would ever be made for that buyer since the manufacturer didn't even know they'd placed an order? Did Twisted Pins forward the deposit money for some orders but not others to CGC/PPS (we know CGC/PPS was aware that Twisted Pins existed since it was on their distributor list from day one -- presumably CGC/PPS expected at least a few orders to be placed through Twisted Pins?). Or did CGC/PPS decide for some reason to deviate from this policy when it came to Twisted Pins, and let them keep the deposit money for some/all orders? And if so has that ever been explained? I thought PPS' intention in structuring the deposit system this way was at least in part to avoid another debacle like the WOZ/failed Australian distributor thing.

    I get if Twisted Pins customers are avoiding conversation on this while contemplating a lawsuit, but I hope at some point the role CGC/PPS played in all of this can be clarified.

    [EDIT: Another possibility just occurred to me, which is that maybe Twisted Pins forwarded the first $1,000 deposit to CGC/PPS, but then later demanded additional installments and kept those. Of course that would go against the "remaining payment due 1-2 weeks before shipment" part of the FAQ, but if CGC/PPS didn't know that Twisted Pins was doing it, would help better explain the situation.]

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