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(Topic ID: 149937)

Twisted Pins - BEWARE!


By PinballRevival

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 111 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by northvibe
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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    There are 111 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 4 years ago
    Quoted from Farb:

    Let's pray the only thing Travis is guilty of is atrocious communication.

    I can say this, get your ducks in a row. Travis is a sketchy character at best who is very good at convincing people that he is a victim of everyone else's doing. He did me quite wrong when I had helped him out on a local pinball deal. He finally came around to making me whole and I forgave him. But now, here he is pulling the same bullshit on a grander scale. I can assure you, all of your money on MMr has been spent, and Travis is either trying to raise the cash to make everyone whole, or has gone for good this time. If he comes back, it will be another long laundry list of excuses that made him "unavailable". He is looking for his next financial score so he can satisfy the previous score. Almost like a pyramid scheme.

    A good dig in to his past pulls up some very unscrupulous dealings such as being a member on how to skirt Ebay's rules when being booted for being a bad seller, how to have multiple identities, and alleged dealings in kiddie porn(yes, you read that correctly). He was in the automotive world too and been booted many times there too.

    #52 4 years ago

    Add me to the list. I put down a deposit two years ago; saying Travis is a poor communicator is like saying the Titanic experienced "dampness".
    Let's work as a group to address this. I have gotten screwed in business a couple of times over my career and love nothing more than destroying scammers.

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I would seriously recommend taking a look back at Rick's early assurances here at Pinside about how money would be handled. If PPS/CGC have changed their tune and are trying to palm it off on the distributors they should be held to account for the promises they made that led people to feel safe buying through distributors in the first place.

    You don't have to look far for a statement from Rick about who has the deposit money. His last post just a week ago on his own forums makes it clear that CGC was sent (at least) the deposit money for the Twisted Pin MMr preorder games. He alludes to the fact that they don't have names associated with that money from a customer standpoint, but then sorting out such things is what lawyers are good at. I suspect they will be involved before this is all over with.

    Rick probably can't legally be held accountable for a failure in his distributor network but this is yet another example of these long term pre-order deals are a bad deal for the buyer. It requires that each distributor continue to be a viable business during the entire production process, and the fact is that businesses fail. When that happens it would be best that they don't go down holding onto other folks money that they have had for a couple of years.

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    Perhaps twisted pins and mad amusements are off on an extended cruise together.

    Quoted from Enaud:

    With Kevin Kulek acting as the ship's captain.

    Then JPOP joined the crew and thought the ship need to be re-designed and the whole thing sank.......oh wait, that would be a blessing.

    #55 4 years ago

    At least we have some strength in numbers in this situation. It sure sucks being out all the money with nothing to show for it after two years. What a disaster!

    #56 4 years ago

    I can't imagine having someone on my list of authorized dealers and having something like this go down and not stepping up to bat for the customers that got cheated. I am sure most people put a deposit down because of the seal of approval that was given to Twisted Pins by PPS and the reassurance that what had occurred with the OZ in AU would not happen here. WTF. This hobby is so shitty sometimes.

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from viper001:

    You don't have to look far for a statement from Rick about who has the deposit money. His last post just a week ago on his own forums makes it clear that CGC was sent (at least) the deposit money for the Twisted Pin MMr preorder games. He alludes to the fact that they don't have names associated with that money from a customer standpoint, but then sorting out such things is what lawyers are good at. I suspect they will be involved before this is all over with.
    Rick probably can't legally be held accountable for a failure in his distributor network but this is yet another example of these long term pre-order deals are a bad deal for the buyer. It requires that each distributor continue to be a viable business during the entire production process, and the fact is that businesses fail. When that happens it would be best that they don't go down holding onto other folks money that they have had for a couple of years.

    If Rick is posting that he in fact has all of the Twisted Pins down payment money that's great news for those that preordered there, at least the money is still around. I thought the whole point of PPS' distributor model was that they hold the money so no one gets hurt if an individual distributor fails. Of course of PPS doesn't have any record of who payed what that seems like a significant flaw in the system ...

    #58 4 years ago

    I got my MMr through TP, and he was holding the money minus the 1k deposit. This is looking bad for the rest of you, I learned my lesson and will not pre-order again, ever

    #59 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

    I got my MMr through TP, and he was holding the money minus the 1k deposit. This is looking bad for the rest of you, I learned my lesson and will not pre-order again, ever

    Rick had the initial $1000 and Twisted Pins had the rest? Who covered the shortfall?

    #60 4 years ago

    I do not mean this in a hindsight 20/20 type way but wondering why people would of bought the game from anyone other than PPS? It's different with Stern where you cannot buy direct.. But this case you could buy direct (well we thought PPS was running the show back then) or distributor.. Why add a middle man when it wasn't mandatory? Or did PPS run out of game alotment for themselves? I know it was a crazy few weeks there at the beginning.

    I considered this game and if it wasn't for TBL being announced at the same time I would of been in on this, my game is just as late as MMR.. So feel your pain.

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from sd_tom:

    I do not mean this in a hindsight 20/20 type way but wondering why people would of bought the game from anyone other than PPS? It's different with Stern where you cannot buy direct.. But this case you could buy direct (well we thought PPS was running the show back then) or distributor.. Why add a middle man when it wasn't mandatory? Or did PPS run out of game alotment for themselves? I know it was a crazy few weeks there at the beginning.

    It was a crazy few weeks and PPS initially "sold out" very quickly. Also I think I remember reading that Twisted Pins offered free shipping to some (maybe that's wrong though). Also Rick offered assurances that PPS would hold deposit money so no perceived risk in ordering through distributors.

    #62 4 years ago

    All games sold out, I was able to find someone that could slide their extra purchase spot to me. THey had already had the distributor, so I had to work with that distributor. If I would of known it could be bought from PPS today, I would of waited, but it sold out in a day, so ya....

    #63 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Rick had the initial $1000 and Twisted Pins had the rest? Who covered the shortfall?

    CGC, not Rick/pps, to my knowledge had the down payment. I was one of the very first tp customers getting an allocation. It took a few months for Doug and Rick to chase down Travis and get the rest from him, the manufacturing date of mine is September but I got it in December. Sounds like he's gone awol and not even Rick can help getting the rest from him. I truly hope he makes things right soon, this sucks so bad

    #64 4 years ago
    Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

    CGC, not Rick/pps, to my knowledge had the down payment. I was one of the very first tp customers getting an allocation. It took a few months for Doug and Rick to chase down Travis and get the rest from him, the manufacturing date of mine is September but I got it in December. Sounds like he's gone awol and not even Rick can help getting the rest from him. I truly hope he makes things right soon, this sucks so bad

    Ones like you who got their game, gave me hope. I'm paid in full and now am not feeling very good :/

    #65 4 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    Ones like you who got their game, gave me hope. I'm paid in full and now am not feeling very good :/

    I'm with you, man. This was supposed to be my first pin and start in the hobby. Looks like I'm going to be out of the hobby before I even had any fun with it. Feeling pretty cheated.

    #66 4 years ago
    Quoted from miggitymac:

    I'm with you, man. This was supposed to be my first pin and start in the hobby. Looks like I'm going to be out of the hobby before I even had any fun with it. Feeling pretty cheated.

    on PPS forum, as well, there have been some people getting games....so I hope he is paying CGC. Once production is back and going, and all are made we shall see... what sucks is PPS themselves have games ready to ship if you buy from them :/

    #67 4 years ago

    Please PM me if you are owed merchandise you paid Twisted Pins for (either a deposit or in full).

    #68 4 years ago
    Quoted from Farb:

    Please PM me if you are owed merchandise you paid Twisted Pins for (either a deposit or in full).

    PM sent. I purchased a WH2O topper back in May of 2013 which I received, but it doesn't produce the waterfall effect as everyone knows. Travis is not responding to any communications which is also well known.

    Gord

    4 weeks later
    #69 4 years ago
    Quoted from taz:

    Yeah, I'm in for an MMR with them since July 14 and all I hear are crickets when I reach out to them. I'm very, very worried right now.

    I just gave up. Travis has $8k from me for MMR over a year and what I am reading, I might as well just write it off.

    #70 4 years ago

    Another CGC/PPS mess.

    #71 4 years ago

    Wow, their website seems to be.. gone

    #72 4 years ago

    Rick needs to take care of anyone who pre paid that skinny crankster.Thank god I got my game after talking with Doug,

    No More pre Pays !!!!! Rick ! Take care of your customers, I will never buy another remake.

    #73 4 years ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    Rick needs to take care of anyone who pre paid that skinny crankster.

    If Rick never received the $6,000 from Twisted to pay for the game, then how is he going to "take care" of anybody?

    It's the JJP non existing payments all over again.

    #74 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If Rick never received the $6,000 from Twisted to pay for the game, then how is he going to "take care" of anybody?
    It's the JJP non existing payments all over again.

    Did Rick, CGC, or PPS set Twisted Pins up as an authorized dealer?

    Did Rick, CGC, or PPS perform their due diligence and verify Twisted Pins' credit worthiness?

    If I were Rick, CGC or PPS, I would "take care" of it or call my attorney and tell him to get ready.

    Christ, are there any competent business people in this industry?

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    Another CGC/PPS mess.

    No, it's not.

    -2
    #76 4 years ago

    Does this mean that Rick, CGC, PPS are issuing refunds or shipping games to their customers who were victimized by one of their authorized dealers?

    This is wonderful news if accurate.

    #77 4 years ago

    Has anyone thought about getting a hold of the Idaho Attorney Generals office and file a complaint.

    Twisted Pins's address isn't far from the Boise Costco. I should drive by and check out the address.

    #78 4 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    He was in the automotive world too and been booted many times there too

    Yikes.
    http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/true-crime-may-26-2004/Content?oid=931558

    "Boise Police recovered 27 stolen truck tailgates worth more than $40,000 on May 12 after following a suspect to a storage unit in West Boise. TRAVIS B. BRAWLEY, 28, faces charges of grand theft after he allegedly stole tailgates from new pickup trucks at several local dealerships. The tailgates, which retail for approximately $1,400 each, were then sold on Ebay for about $300. Officers found several of the tailgates already packaged and ready for shipment to Internet buyers."

    *He served time on this conviction and was released on 7/23/13.

    #79 4 years ago

    Yikes is right. His original name, cardfelon, was so appropriate.

    #80 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    Does this mean that Rick, CGC, PPS are issuing refunds or shipping games to their customers who were victimized by one of their authorized dealers?
    This is wonderful news if accurate.

    No. Focus your anger and rage against Travis. This isn't PPSs or CGCs fault. Travis is the one that is responsible for his actions. Nobody else is.

    #81 4 years ago
    Quoted from pintechev:

    No. Focus your anger and rage against Travis. This isn't PPSs or CGCs fault. Travis is the one that is responsible for his actions. Nobody else is.

    It doesn't work that way in the real world.

    Rick, PPS, and CGC have opened themselves up here by making the decision to grant authorized dealer status to Twisted Pins. If the group of buyers who were victimized by Twisted Pins decide to go after them in a suit they will have a problem.

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from highdef:

    TRAVIS B. BRAWLEY, 28, faces charges of grand theft after he allegedly stole tailgates from new pickup trucks at several local dealerships. The tailgates, which retail for approximately $1,400 each...

    The real crime here is claiming a tailgate is worth $1400.

    #83 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    It doesn't work that way in the real world.
    Rick, PPS, and CGC have opened themselves up here by making the decision to grant authorized dealer status to Twisted Pins. If the group of buyers who were victimized by Twisted Pins decide to go after them in a suit they will have a problem.

    Unless said parties actually knew in advance there was something wrong, there's not much they have to worry about. It is not a legal responsibility to do these things. For instance - if you want to be a "Authorized Dealer" for Dell computers, all you do is fill out a one page web form and it's done, you are a dealer. Does that mean Dell is on the hook when you sell Dell computers and get payment and then commit fraud? Of course not. And it's this way for a lot of large companies as well - whether it be computers, toys, etc. They aren't running credit checks or checking your background, and they don't have to. In fact, it's actually BETTER that they don't do this because then someone can't come back and claim they had some knowledge about some stuff in the dealer's past.

    It's the same argument that you expect McDonald's to run background checks on all of their employees because one of their employees did something illegal in the restaurant. That doesn't automatically make McDonald's on the hook.

    #84 4 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Unless said parties actually knew in advance there was something wrong, there's not much they have to worry about.

    It sure seems that based upon the information which is obtained quite easily online regarding Travis Brawley that said parties should have known there were issues with this individual.

    If I were to file suit against Brawley, I would definitely include said parties in the suit.

    #85 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    It sure seems that based upon the information which is obtained quite easily online regarding Travis Brawley that said parties should have known there were issues with this individual.
    If I were to file suit against Brawley, I would definitely include said parties in the suit.

    Again, then they are doing a background check on their own. It doesn't matter how easy it is to obtain - they are not being "hired" or working for a sensitive place (ie school, etc). They are simply a dealer - I could be a murderer and apply to be a Dell Authorized Dealer and I'd be approved in 10 minutes. That doesn't make Dell culpable. I do see the line of thinking - I just don't think a suit would be successful under the guise of they should have done a background check on their distributor. If anything - the buyer, who is spending thousands of dollars for a product and paying in advance, should do some due diligence on their own. Since it was so "easy" to see that Twisted Pins was a fraud - why wouldn't a buyer look into the company they are sending thousands of dollars to that they've never bought from before? I know the argument is that a buyer wouldn't do that because they see they are an authorized dealer and assume everything is legit. But again, I'd think you'd have a really hard time getting legal compensation under the guise of CGC needed to background check their distributors. Very few companies do that - even enormous ones.

    #86 4 years ago

    "If anything - the buyer, who is spending thousands of dollars for a product and paying in advance, should do some due diligence on their own".

    I am sooo tired of hearing this kind of thinking, it seems reasons/excuses always come up that the purchaser is always the one at fault for paying for a product that should have been delivered. This thinking is almost as bad as a criminal breaking into one's home and getting injured and being able to successfully sue the homeowner for a set amount....Yep, this is what society has turned into.....sad.

    #87 4 years ago

    I think whomever has been ripped off by this guy should contact the Idaho attorney general. It should be relatively easy to have additional charges brought on this guy.

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from loren3233:

    "If anything - the buyer, who is spending thousands of dollars for a product and paying in advance, should do some due diligence on their own".
    I am sooo tired of hearing this kind of thinking, it seems reasons/excuses always come up that the purchaser is always the one at fault for paying for a product that should have been delivered. This thinking is almost as bad as a criminal breaking into one's home and getting injured and being able to successfully sue the homeowner for a set amount....Yep, this is what society has turned into.....sad.

    You are responsible for taking reasonable steps to protect yourself. Society does not, and should not, protect you from risk.

    If we hold the manufacturer responsible for not doing background check and denying TP a business relationship based on those results then the purchaser is even more responsible. The purchaser is taking the risk. The purchaser should be pursuing TP for the loss.

    #89 4 years ago

    Yes, reasonable steps to protect yourself, I agree.

    Buying a product from a well known entity (PPS, CGC) which has approved twisted pins to sell their product should be enough of a step to protect yourself. Are you saying we should not trust PPS, CGC on their decisions on who we can purchase their products from?

    I guess I see it differently but I do not think it is not right to continue to place blame on the consumer.

    #90 4 years ago
    Quoted from loren3233:

    Yes, reasonable steps to protect yourself, I agree.
    Buying a product from a well known entity (PPS, CGC) which has approved twisted pins to sell their product should be enough of a step to protect yourself. Are you saying we should not trust PPS, CGC on their decisions on who we can purchase their products from?
    I guess I see it differently but I do not think it is not right to continue to place blame on the consumer.

    It's a two way street, there's responsibility on both parties involved

    #92 4 years ago
    Quoted from loren3233:

    Yes, reasonable steps to protect yourself, I agree.
    Buying a product from a well known entity (PPS, CGC) which has approved twisted pins to sell their product should be enough of a step to protect yourself. Are you saying we should not trust PPS, CGC on their decisions on who we can purchase their products from?
    I guess I see it differently but I do not think it is not right to continue to place blame on the consumer.

    I never stated that blame should be placed on the consumer - blame is solely with TP. They are the ones that committed fraud. I simply correlated that if it was so easy to know that TP was a fraud and a buyer is going to blame CGC for TP's actions, then the buyer should also have some blame themselves on that level of thinking as well. I don't agree with that level of thinking that CGC is to be blamed at all (unless, of course, there is some information we do not know).

    Now, on the other hand, since TP was an authorized distributor, I do think CGC, from a business standpoint, should do something. Perhaps sell TP customers an MMR at cost directly, etc, if they still want one.

    #93 4 years ago

    What I meant by Rick taking care of customers,
    Every distributor should have been bonded, insured, some kind of financial background?
    If Travis screwed 10 guys out of 8k or whatever, Get these guys there games ! Write it off, Travis has a pin collection, home ? PPS, Bay Area Amusements has Big money go after this A- hole , .I was planning on buying a few more remakes, if Rick / CGC don't make this right , Im Done ! I got my MMR from Travis thank god for that. I mean even one pin sent every 3 months to a guy who got screwed ? Spread the loss out, and take care of the pinball community. . Take the profit of color display that was supposed to be free and get these guys there games

    #94 4 years ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    Every distributor should have been bonded, insured, some kind of financial background?

    If the EU could not see that Spain did not have any financial footing, how would PPS know any better?

    JJP had a "D-" Dun & Bradstreet rating, but people keep sending them money.

    Quoted from whitey:

    If Travis screwed 10 guys out of 8k or whatever, Get these guys there games !

    How would PPS know who truly paid for a game?

    A CC statement would just have the amount, that could be for any game. Maybe for one that DID get delivered.

    A receipt could be printed by anybody with a laser printer.

    Without raiding Twisted's office records, it would be very difficult to determine.

    #95 4 years ago

    Again, this thread isn't about PPS, or CGC. Travis took money and didn't deliver for his customers. That's it. That's all. If you want a future PPS game, don't pay in full before the game is in a box and ready to be delivered. Or wait until they are in stock at a dealer you know and trust, or buy from PPS directly. Just don't make this about anyone other than Travis.

    #96 4 years ago

    I understand, maybe the guys who got screwed could get a game at cost ? Or discounted.one thing this country needs to do is make people accountable for there shannigans ! Embezzlement is the worst kind of thief. I apologize for any negativity towards Rick/ CGC I just hate dishonest individuals,
    Pinball world doesn't need this !

    #97 4 years ago
    Quoted from whitey:

    I understand, maybe the guys who got screwed could get a game at cost ? Or discounted.one thing this country needs to do is make people accountable for there shannigans ! Embezzlement is the worst kind of thief. I apologize for any negativity towards Rick/ CGC I just hate dishonest individuals,
    Pinball world doesn't need this !

    Mmm not looking to pay twice

    #98 4 years ago

    For those of you that got ripped off, you may want to take a "test drive" on a used car. Here's a list of just some of his assumed business names. Note the most recent one at the bottom. Note that they all list a mailing address as PO box# 8121 even though some of them don't have his name on them. When you search the assumed business names, his name is on them.

    EDIT:Idaho links don't work if you click on them. You must copy and paste them into your URL box.

    http://www.bizapedia.com/addresses/PO-BOX-8121-BOISE-ID-83707.html

    Here's the official assumed business name filing for Arcade Auto sales, LLC.

    http://www.sos.idaho.gov/tiffpilot/tiffpilot.exe?FN=\\sosimg\corp$/\20150825\LLC_ORIG15237113431.tif

    Here's the website for Arcade Auto Sales, LLC

    http://arcadeautosales.com/

    Here's the assumed business name filing where he changed the name from Definitive Automotive Group, LLC to Twisted Pins, LLC. Note the PO box# 8121

    http://www.sos.idaho.gov/tiffpilot/tiffpilot.exe?FN=\\sosimg\corp$/\20130114\LLCAMEND13014093347.tif

    Here's his filing for Nummy Nummy Foods, LLC

    http://www.sos.idaho.gov/tiffpilot/tiffpilot.exe?FN=\\sosimg\corp$/\20130712\ASSUM_OR13193095828.tif

    There is an address of 5354 McMurtrey ST. Meridian, ID listed on some of his filings. Use that at your own risk.

    5354 W Mcmurtrey Street
    Meridian, ID 83646
    Find on map >>
    Show street view
    Owner: TRAVIS B BRAWLEY
    Property class: Residential

    This is all publicly available information. All I did was connect the dots. What anyone chooses to do with this information is their responsibility.

    #99 4 years ago

    I guess I went overboard on my frustration towards Rick/CGC, I told a friend about Twisted pins, I got my game and he got screwed.I feel terrible about that but I think eventually he will get a game. I will buy another remake, hopefully AFM is next, but I will buy from PPS and sleep better.

    Rick , Doug, I love my MMR Thanks.

    2 months later
    #100 4 years ago

    so what is the deal with twisted pins ? gone, done and dusted?. no website?

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