(Topic ID: 193149)

This Week in Pinball Updates

By pin2d

3 years ago

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  • Latest reply 14 hours ago by pin2d
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    Post #605 Stern getting Godzilla license discussion. Posted by pin2d (1 year ago)

    Post #611 Link to podcast discussing Godzilla license and stern. Posted by pin2d (1 year ago)

    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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    #49 2 years ago

    Screen Shot 2017-11-27 at 9.06.15 AM (resized).png

    oh boy.

    One of my biggest take-aways from the whole jpop story, and what I've learned after handing money over to that numbskull, was to never go against my own business instincts again. If it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up. There is nothing magical about pinball that breaks all the laws of business and profit.

    So if whatever you have to share about deeproot is going to make people angry, that is not how you launch a business, especially in a niche market with limited customer base. So this is DOA, and someone else now is going to lose a bunch of money chasing a pipe dream.

    #50 2 years ago

    PS: I enjoy your website, and it's a nice alternative to all the podcasts which take more of an investment of time.

    1 week later
    #59 2 years ago

    I would make the line in the sand for releases when production machines are being delivered to customers.

    So, that would not include Pirates or Houdini.

    That would include Batman66, you can't delay indefinitely for code. What is out there has to be judged, which is unfortunate but that is what was shipped.

    Multimorphic is announcing P3s available in multiple countries, and on location. We know these numbers aren't large, but they consider it released, so then it would make the cut as a 2017 release. IMO.

    #71 2 years ago

    I'd personally call a "re do" on this one and create a new survey. If you don't, it will undermine whatever hope you have of this award meaning anything, in my opinion.

    #75 2 years ago

    Dialed In
    Guardians of the Galaxy
    Lexi Lightspeed - Escape from Earth
    Star Wars
    The Jetsons
    Total Nuclear Annihilation
    Batman66 (started shipping late December 2016, January 2017)

    When I used to do a music radio show, we cut off the annual tracks at Nov 30. So, annual awards were based on music released from Dec 1 of previous year to Nov 30 of this year. So something like Batman66 would be part of the current year's consideration.

    2 weeks later
    #84 2 years ago

    Great indepth interview. I'm going to take issue with something Joe said, just to clarify for him if he reads this:

    JB: Yes, a lot of naysayers. And the more naysayers there were on Pinside or online that said these guys are just BSing their way, they’re trying to take your money, all the negative things that came out

    Joe, I can vividly recall that time. I would say EVERYTHING negative said on Pinside at that time had EVERYTHING to do with John Popaduik, and the taint left on the whole project.

    You did the impossible by bringing a flippable game to Texas, and you and your team deserve all the credit for it. I just think if you think Pinside was being overly negative at the start towards the game and American Pinball, it was 100% on John, his legacy, and his Houdini pinball diorama he tried to pass off as a completed design.

    There was also a lot of confusion about exactly when jpop was "fired" from American Pinball, when he was no longer involved. That was not made clear at the start, so the jpop shit tornado continued to twist, even though you had started over.

    1 week later
    #95 2 years ago

    My guess is both Zelda and Super Mario, based on this seems to be information that TWIP came across through indirect means, like seeing a list of licensors, like how someone spotted Stern once on a list of Star Trek licenses. And since it's "2" it has to be licenses that are owned together. Possibly there are pairs of licenses in the remaining list, but the Nintendo ones stick out to me.

    #229 2 years ago

    We've seen exactly what happens when games are announced early, because almost every other competitor has done it - it sucks up all the money out of the room. No one wants to buy what's available now, because what is coming is always more exciting.

    Apple certainly doesn't announce what features will be in their next hardware release. They announce - and ship - what they've got for sale. If they said what will be in the iPhone11, people would wait for it.

    4 months later
    #385 2 years ago

    I'm a number guys myself, so appreciate the article.

    I suspect pinball had a real spike in the 2012-2013 time frame, and is still growing, just not as much as that 1 single year did. And that doesn't mean it is dying or anything else, it just means there was a huge influx of people that 1 year and steady growth since.

    #387 2 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    do you think there is a specific reason that year saw the growth?
    What caused it?

    Not sure. That was when I came in, and it felt like I was a newbie along with a whole lot of other people at the same time.

    Pinball Arcade was a key component in my own personal journey, and it seems like it was for a lot of other people. I remembered I liked pinball, found the app in the app store, then was playing Medieval Madness. Before long I was looking for somewhere to play it in real life, and then I was on Pinside and bought my first pinball.

    Maybe my story isn't that different from a lot of people.

    #392 2 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    I know there were a lot of other people that Tron was their first NIB.

    Was mine.

    Quoted from Frax:

    By the time all of us morons bought machines and started blathering about them to other people, word of mouth might've accounted for a measurable chunk of bringing in more people.

    This is part of it.

    Pinball Arcade is part of it.

    And for me personally again, I had just reached an age, and a level of success, home ownership, etc, that allowed me to indulge in this hobby. I think we're a big cohort.

    #398 2 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    You used to (maybe still do?) post on KLOV right? Pretty sure I remember seeing your name there back in the day. I haven't been on there actively in a very very long time...

    Not me. Never had an account there.

    #407 2 years ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    While the article is interesting, it's a pity it doesn't reflect on numbers from the early 90s. Then pinball was great. We're not even close to having that many games on location these days. Manufacturers don't put out that many games either. Obviously, the buyers market also shifted: today more game go directly to home users than in the early 90s. The operators market is nowhere near what it was in the early, or even late 90s. It may be up from 10 years ago, but still only a shadow of early 90s numbers.

    the 90s is a loooooong time ago. I think it's fair to compare 10 years ago with today, because arguably you are looking at the lowest point (when Stern almost went out of business) to what we have today, so basically the entire recovery period.

    2 weeks later
    #423 2 years ago

    The designer will also help set up the machine, discuss the design process and the game, and play your game at your place of residence!!

    OMG... they are busting out the jpop handbook verbatim.

    Surprised Ben Heck wasn't told he was going to have to help out.

    #424 2 years ago

    This whole promising to give away a pinball machine before it even exists was done before... by Skit-B. When they announced Experts of Dangerous.

    There is so little marketing value to this, and certainly not worth the costs of giving away these machines, plus this idea that these designers will travel and set the machine up at your house for you.

    The lesson to me that I learned during the first generation of stupid pinball startups was that I will never go against my own business instincts again. If something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense.

    Good for getting a little bit of Pinside chatter going, a year ahead of when you plan to actually sell machines. Yay.

    #427 2 years ago
    Quoted from pin2d:

    We wouldn't be doing this if deeproot was using pre-order money to fund the startup.

    It doesn't matter since all that's being given away is a "promise" and a far out delivery date. We know what those are worth.

    Not meant to kick you over this. Just sharing my opinion that this does not give me confidence that deeproot know what they are doing. Beyond raising some money from some people. I'll let them talk big when they actually, you know, sell something (and deliver it).

    #429 2 years ago

    I made a donation out of respect for your work. No give aways needed for me.

    1 month later
    #481 2 years ago

    i didn't see it either, but i'm also not a facebook user.

    #565 2 years ago

    I'm grateful every time a pinball theme is announced that I know I have no interest in. Then there is no debate about whether I'll be a buyer. Makes my life simpler. There will always be another new game around the corner to consider.

    That is my personal choice, but I'd never want to stop a Beatles fan from getting a pin made if that is their wish.

    1 week later
    #609 1 year ago

    I'd have to agree with the notion that business is business, and Stern is in business for Stern, not to prop up competitors, or do nice things for them like walk away from a license just because someone else really likes it.

    I'm not sure what all transpired, but like most things its a learning experience for Spooky, and they'll be that much more battle hardened the next time around.

    Hell, I mentor business owners and the first question I ask of them before they even get to talk to me is "Tell me about a hard lesson you learned", because its such an important part of growing and I want to hear about it.

    #751 1 year ago

    So, like what is the long list of licenses Stern has "stolen" and sat on from the competition guaranteeing no pinball will ever exist? It's not like the competition even have a big list of titles.


    WOZ - As Jack tells the story, he wanted this
    Hobbit - we know Jack really wanted this as his answer to LOTR and got it
    Pirates - Stern already did it before, didn't stop JJP from getting it
    Toy Story - obviously this is a AAA license

    Alien - from reports, Stern also wanted it, Heighway got it... are we better for that having happened?

    Rob Zombie - they wanted him, they got him
    Alice Cooper - they wanted him, they got him
    Jetsons - subcontract job but license was still acquired.
    Godzilla - doh! But remains to be seen if Stern will release one.

    Dutch Pinball:
    Lebowski - as the story goes, Gary had no interest even though people asked him for this game. Didn't stop DP from getting it.

    1 week later
    #771 1 year ago

    thanks for the Spooky transcript.

    I found this quote interesting from Charlie:

    The market is too small. The customers are all the same.

    When I consider that with Spooky selling 1000 machines... well, if the customer are the same, and everyone is fishing in the same pond, then who lost the most to those 1000 sales?

    Yup, Stern. It's just business. Small fish or not, there's a fight going on in the pond.

    That whole bit of busting into a meeting that's going on isn't a good look, however.

    4 weeks later
    #806 1 year ago

    Well, the fact that Stern has assigned someone to Godzilla At least puts to rest the idea that they bought the license just to sit on it.

    4 weeks later
    #882 1 year ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    Question is ... when will it be announced? Maybe they go to CES, or maybe they wait for TPF, hopefully with release shortly thereafter?

    I don't think JJP has to use a show at all for a reveal. If anything, revealing it outside of a show might actually help a lot better since the focus would be on a real reveal video (polished up), marketing materials, etc.

    #884 1 year ago

    Here is my free JJP non-show announce schedule:

    Day 1: Jack tweets "WE'RE READY AND YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE IT!! See you at jerseyjackpinball.com in 7 days"

    Day 2 to 7.... obscure tweets that Pinside obsesses over.

    Day 7: Countdown clock, Sizzle video, flyers, professional photos, ordering opens up.

    Day 8: 3 hour Buffalo Pinball stream.

    After... bring games to whatever shows are on the schedule at that point.

    #885 1 year ago

    lol, just realized this is sort of Stern's M.O. at the moment, but swap Buffalo Pinball for Jack Danger.

    Obviously if it works for Stern it will work for JJP. No Expo required.

    #897 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rascal_H:

    If it’s what I think it is I am in!

    That’s the power of licenses. New company that has never shown anything and never produced anything and has no customers can still hype up something with just a mention.

    1 month later
    #943 1 year ago
    Quoted from pin2d:

    Joe Kaminkow told TWIP the following: Depending on customers requirement some will have coin doors some won’t. An example, a family entertainment may want a coin door, or a blank for home collectors. The coin door has a beautiful decal.

    Hmmm. I wonder how much the lack of coin door will depress the resale value of those particular machines? Why in the world is that even an option?

    1 week later
    #953 1 year ago

    Didn't see or participate in the poll but when I saw the link my mind immediately went to Stern Star Trek. Not surprised its the winner.

    4 months later
    #1086 1 year ago

    The Deeproot Olympic sponsorship sounds about right.

    1 week later
    #1099 1 year ago

    announcing those themes, 5 years in advance, with nothing to show for them? good grief.

    1 week later
    #1129 1 year ago
    Quoted from Sethman:

    The artwork for Beetlejuice looks amazing!
    I find it really hard to believe one of the teams didn’t want to do it.e.

    That quote is interesting. In the end, working on a game is a year+ of your life. It's cool to think the teams have some say and get to pick things that really excite them.

    From everything reported, staff at Stern work below market value for their skills so they can work in pinball. Combine that with working on pinball projects that pump their blood, that sounds like a great environment.

    3 months later
    #1249 11 months ago
    Quoted from pin2d:

    - Is Jack Danger making a “real” pinball machine

    If Keith can adapt his Archer why couldn’t anyone else do it, especially when there’s a healthy open relationship with Stern already?

    Stern in recent times has really demonstrated a willingness to fresh blood and ideas.

    8 months later
    #1381 85 days ago

    Great feature. Congrats.

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