TWIP: Around the Playfield with Jon Norris


By pin2d

10 months ago


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    There are 409 posts in topic. You are on page 9 of 9.
    #401 9 days ago
    Quoted from pin2d:

    Guest Post!
    The Growth of Pinball: An Evidence-Based Review – by Dennis Kriesel
    http://thisweekinpinball.com/the-growth-of-pinball-an-evidence-based-review-by-dennis-kriesel/

    Dennis, I don't understand how you correlated ownership growth reported on Pinside to ownership growth overall. If pinball ownership did not grow but Pinside membership did how would your data show that?

    #402 9 days ago

    Visual Pinball brings a lot of people in. It brought me back to pinball. After building a MAME cabinet, I discovered vpinMAME and visual pinball 9 which finally had an all in one installer. Now with VPX more people keep coming to the virtual hobby and then to the real.

    #403 9 days ago

    While the article is interesting, it's a pity it doesn't reflect on numbers from the early 90s. Then pinball was great. We're not even close to having that many games on location these days. Manufacturers don't put out that many games either. Obviously, the buyers market also shifted: today more game go directly to home users than in the early 90s. The operators market is nowhere near what it was in the early, or even late 90s. It may be up from 10 years ago, but still only a shadow of early 90s numbers.

    #404 9 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Dennis, I don't understand how you correlated ownership growth reported on Pinside to ownership growth overall. If pinball ownership did not grow but Pinside membership did how would your data show that?

    Sadly, it falls under one of the flaw categories I listed (self-reported ownership; as you know it introduces a lot of issues). That data is incapable of distinguishing ownership increases' causes (be it just site growth or something else). It's why I do not actually provide a correlation value with a statement on statistical significance, because I can't really detect that without knowing the manufacturing quantities. And, if I had those, I'd just use that for ownership (since all games not destroyed would be owned by someone, and we'd just accept the flaw that we can't track destroyed as a small price to pay), though then we could compare ownership counts here versus production counts and probably get a sense of what percentage of owned games is reflected on this site (I wouldn't have bothered, but it would definitely be interesting).

    My non-data based assumption at present is Pinside growth is collector-oriented and should, in theory, benefit all years, particularly since the range of examination is still "modern". Because people getting into the hobby now, or joining the site for the first time, still have access to all the games in the period of examination.

    But your point is well taken. It would be like the idea of reporting Pinside's membership growth. The growth itself would be true (obviously), but we'd not be able to prove (statistically) that the growth was due to new hobbyists (in theory it could all be old hobbyists finally finding/joining the site). We'd need some other data source (surveying the members when they joined) or, we could use it to fuel our suspicion and then try to find another data source to help shore up what assumptions the data we had were making us think (what I tried to do with the IFPA data; more on that below).

    Where I'm more concerned (and why I noted the flaw that the site seems very collector oriented) is when looking at the ownership count of Stern Pros versus Premium/LE. In several cases, the Pro figures are LOWER than the Premium/LE. I do not think this corresponds to reality (I think Stern sells more Pros than LEs and Premiums combined; don't know it for sure of course, just my suspicion due to costs). However, if the site's bias holds true (towards collector-grade games) then at least I feel relatively safe in assuming that's consistent across years. But I can't prove it, so the best I could do is list the flaw and move on.

    I gathered the competitive data after the owner figures here because I was pretty disappointed with how many assumptions I had to make about ownership. Since the exploration was on if the pinball hobby was growing, I thought another dataset would help shore that up (since what I do have on ownership was suggesting things are more produced/owned now than 10 years ago). The IFPA data offers a lot more samples and a lot more consistency, and so it helped reassure me that the ownership trends on Pinside fit with the narrative (that pinball, the hobby, is in a growth phase).

    -3
    #405 9 days ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    We're not even close to having that many games on location these days.

    Quoted from unigroove:

    The operators market is nowhere near what it was in the early, or even late 90s. It may be up from 10 years ago, but still only a shadow of early 90s numbers.

    that is incorrect in some cities.

    Some cities and operators have way more pinball on location now than there ever was in the 90s.

    Specifically cities like Seattle come to mind.

    #406 8 days ago

    Hilton, why would you attempt to make the micro argument/point that there are individual cities/territories better off today when, as Jonathan points out, the overall picture for location pinball is abysmal.

    I'm sure a lot of locals are pleased with the fact that you have played a part in seeing that the Madison landscape is what it is today. you deserve a merit badge for that, even though you are no boy scout.

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    further, there is a difference between operators of the past who purchased and vended machines as their primary business vs some of the 'operators' of today who are just using bars to house their collections which have outgrown their primary residence, while struggling to net something less than minimum wage.

    despite whatever resurgence is taking place, the socal location pinball scene remains virtually dead. ayce gogi, a two hr drive thru LA traffic, currently has ~20 machines.

    growing up in the south bay area during the 80's there were 100's of machines at the Redondo Beach fun factory. today, it is all redemption games. the bally alladins castle at the del amo mall. the sega center at the old towne mall. the south bay galleria had ~40 machines. small biz arcades in strip malls. a machine or two in most every 7-eleven and liquor store. the differences between then and now remain staggering.

    #407 8 days ago
    Quoted from unigroove:

    While the article is interesting, it's a pity it doesn't reflect on numbers from the early 90s. Then pinball was great. We're not even close to having that many games on location these days. Manufacturers don't put out that many games either. Obviously, the buyers market also shifted: today more game go directly to home users than in the early 90s. The operators market is nowhere near what it was in the early, or even late 90s. It may be up from 10 years ago, but still only a shadow of early 90s numbers.

    the 90s is a loooooong time ago. I think it's fair to compare 10 years ago with today, because arguably you are looking at the lowest point (when Stern almost went out of business) to what we have today, so basically the entire recovery period.

    #408 5 days ago

    THIS WEEK IN PINBALL

    Happy Monday Pinheads!

    http://thisweekinpinball.com/twip-iron-maiden-premium-reveal-supreme-pinball-200-units-at-10500-dutch-pinball-more/

    In This Week's Edition:

    - Iron Maiden Premium Revealed
    - Dutch Pinball's Troubles Continue
    - Supreme Pinball Rumored to Drop this Thursday, with 200 Units at $10,500
    - Replay FX to Host the Largest Women's Tournament in the World
    - Chicago Gaming Company's Next Game will be Announced at...Wait, No it will not
    - Virtual Simulation of Heighway Pinball's Playboy Title
    - Head2Head Pinball Podcast - Interview with Zombie Yeti
    - New York City Championships
    - Iron Maiden LE Stream by SDTM at Pin Stadium HQ
    - Mirco Playfields Secures Gottlieb License
    - Arcooda Pinball Arcade Software - Expires June 30th
    - The Munsters Rumors
    - Golden State Pinball Festival
    - Tiny Pinball Emulator
    - Kill Bill Pinball Machine
    - Womp Womp Baby
    - Atlanta Pinball Museum?
    - Location of the Week
    - Poll of the Week
    - Victory Laps
    - Match - What is Coming up on TWIP
    - Upcoming Games and Rumors

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    #409 4 days ago

    Your Top 10 Pinball Dream Themes!

    http://thisweekinpinball.com/your-top-10-pinball-dream-themes/

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    #410 2 days ago

    Around the Playfield with Jon Norris!

    http://thisweekinpinball.com/around-the-playfield-with-jon-norris/

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    There are 409 posts in topic. You are on page 9 of 9.

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