(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

2 years ago

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  • 8,213 posts
  • 635 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 hours ago by okgrak
  • Topic is favorited by 193 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

10 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (11 months ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 months ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 months ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 months ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 months ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 months ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 months ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 months ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 months ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#3127 11 months ago

Could we please keep this thread on topic? This thread should be about deeproot and any associated updates, reveals, etc. This thread has in large part turned into a thread about new technology that could be incorporated into pinball. I feel there is plenty to discuss regarding new pinball technology to warrant its own thread. Just my thoughts and very much looking forward to what deeproot has to offer...best of luck to them...thanks!

#3130 11 months ago

No apology necessary...it was just a suggestion.

#3164 11 months ago

Personally I really enjoyed the RAZA teaser...plus it has an excellent backstory. I know what I like when I see it and this I like...the animations look fantastic! I also could care less if any “unwritten” rules of 2D and 3D were broken like brijam has suggested...that’s the beauty of artistic freedom. Sometimes when “rules” are broken unique, revolutionary, and amazing things can happen.

#3170 11 months ago

brijam...I’m not an artist of any kind, although I can make a mean sandwich, and I disagree with you...see post #3164. Who care’s what anyone does for a living...just because you work in the video game industry does not necessarily make your arguments more or less valid than anyone else’s opinion.

#3175 11 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

This statement is everything that's wrong with America right now. Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry. I don't know much about climate science but I trust climate scientists more than I do people who talk shit for a living. It's why I asked if DS_Nadine was an artist.
What it doesn't do is make my /opinion/ more or less important. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. You liked the video, great. So did I.
I like all kinds of things that aren't of the highest quality. But that doesn't make them the highest quality.
The video has some good production values, but there were corners cut, and some of them are glaring - to me at least. I was hoping for more.

I agree with you for the most part. However...I said that just because someone is from an industry “does not necessarily” make their argument more valid. I’ve met people in my life that spent years in a particular industry that couldn’t find the backside of their ass with a mirror and a map regarding the industry they are in. It just seemed to me that you felt since you are in the video game industry that your arguments were more valid. It also seemed out of line to be asking what someone else does for a living as if to compare credentials thus validating your opinion over anothers.

#3178 11 months ago

I’m glad we are back on topic...I got off topic myself...could this just be a rough draft of what’s to come? I don’t think deeproot promoted this...I believe a fellow Pinsider just stumbled across it?

#3182 11 months ago

Moving on...anyone else think it’s a rough draft?

#3186 11 months ago

aurich...very well said! After watching the vid it left me wanting to see more and learn more about the characters / story...that is huge for me. The sense of humor and art style also clicked with me.

#3188 11 months ago

The part about an amusement park built next to a defunct power plant which happens to be built on a graveyard is classic imo and opens up the possibility of storylines based around those three locations as well as outer space. The video was short but had a lot of content.

1 week later
#3243 11 months ago

iceman44 if you just received an email reminder from deeproot I would say that is very encouraging news.

#3273 11 months ago

applejuice thanks for sharing!

6 months later
#6281 4 months ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Is it me or is it so obvious that Deeproot’s big innovation is swappable playfields. Why do they act like we don’t know??? Robert sounds so foolish, we are not a bunch of foolish bums. Most of us here on Pinside are professionals who work in big industries, for big companies. He would be wise to listen to us. Why not take a humble approach to business???

It’s you...I 100% disagree with everything you just said. Listen to Pinsiders because “we” supposedly work in big industries for big companies??? Recently this thread proves exactly why they shouldn’t listen to “us”.

#6434 4 months ago
Quoted from aingide:

A low bar!
Alienating their largest potential customer base is certainly innovating, though. A marketing breakthrough that worked great for Homepin.

Do you honestly believe that Pinsiders are deeproot’s or any other pinball company’s largest potential customer base???

#6442 4 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Pinside is not their "largest potential customer base", it is insignificant. There may be reason for DR to sift through the rubbish posts in here, but there is certainly no need for them to be posting here. Information is much easier to release elswhere, somewhere that trolls are in the minority. Good move ditching pinside imho.

Couldn’t agree more. I enjoy Pinside but it is like reading the tabloids at times with the same core group dominating the posts. There is good information within the forum but you have to sort through a lot of bs.

#6444 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

62.000 pinsiders even if there's a lot of inactive accounts, most likely a lot of operators here, a big portion of serial buyers, I would say treating Pinside well can have a significant impact on a pinball company.
Then there is google and with the numbers of pages and word count that Pinside has on each brand, the link often shows up on first page.

Of the 62,000 registered Pinsiders I believe the number of “regulars” is a very small percentage of that. Stern alone is making approximately 30,000 new pins a year so I do believe Pinsiders are not as significant as many on here believe they are.

#6450 4 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Pinside is not the whole pinball market but every Pinsider is a potential customer.
But of the numbers, as you said only a very small percentage are active and an even smaller percentage of that the constantly nagging type... who take everything Deeproot/ Robert says personally while the remaining 99% don't give a sh**.

Agreed...very good points.

1 month later
#6953 3 months ago
Quoted from hank527:

How can they release RAZA when they do not own the IP?


1 week later
#7127 3 months ago

Nice to see this thread hopefully get back on track...the pics of RAZA reminded me of why I’m following this thread in the first place. Looks amazing and I am eagerly awaiting deeproot’s launch in 78 days!!!

#7197 86 days ago

Very generous and classy move by deeproot...awesome news for Zidware customers. Thanks for sharing fulltilt and hopefully more good things come your way!

#7265 79 days ago

Making progress...67.

#7267 79 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

[quoted image]
66 ... and a bit
So, is this clock regionally adjusted? .... even though it is for a single local event?
18 hours from right now is 9am, here in Australia. I thought the event would start about 2am Australian time.
Does this mean we will get to access the launch info on the website 16 hours in advance? .... what happens to the website when the clock reaches zero?
Just curious questions Lol
btw, I do believe they must have something in store that is going to make an impact. Some of the 2yr old interviews describe pretty closely what is going on in the present leadup to launch, albeit delayed. What the (RAZA) First DR prototype non market pinball would be intended to represent (as far as DR is concerned), among other stuff I'd forgotten or missed.

All are excellent questions...”time” will tell!

I truly do believe deeproot WILL be a game changer. Honestly, the pinball industry needs it.

#7274 79 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Here is my pledge right now.
If i want a DR game in the future i'll buy one myself.
I want my $4950 that i lost to Jpop, refused to file a lawsuit against him, and got a credit from DR, to go to pinball charity guys, Ken Cromwell et al
Send a game or the $$$ if DR will agree to it. I see the airfare, hotel rooms etc. going to deserving people but i'd like to give my lesser amount to charity versus airfare, hotels and whatever else
Can we make that happen?

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it.

#7277 79 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's "possible" if THEY want to f ing do it? Get it?
Wow, the stupidity of it all is sometimes mind blowing. Really not. Par for the course

Hey Ice...I got it...let’s see if you can “get it”. Sorry for whatever you went thru with Jpop, it’s unfortunate. But honestly, I don’t care about your pledge, whether or not you go to the launch event, whether or not you like what they have to offer, whether or not you buy a future pin from deeproot and if you do how you pay for it, whether it be your deeproot credit or out of your piggy bank...don’t care...get it? I am legitimately excited for what they are about to show us in just over two months. The industry needs a legitimate competitor to Stern which will benefit all of us. Stern is basically a monopoly with a few other companies fighting for the scraps. I love Stern pins but they can be so much more both in innovation and quality but have no need to change as they are currently manufacturing at 100% of their capacity. They need challenged and right now deeproot is the pinball industry’s best shot. Sorry for counting down the days until deeproot launches and sorry for being excited. Carry on with downvoting my excitement for deeproot and what the future of pinball may have in store for us because of them. I know I just wasted my time as I’m sure it’s just more stupidity in your eyes...carry on.

#7294 78 days ago
Quoted from cait001:

pinside needs a snooze button so I can just snooze this thread until the March reveal

Just don’t visit this thread for the next 65 days.

#7310 76 days ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

I haven’t been following this thread much lately, so could someone tell me if they shipped any machines yet? I’m pretty sure I lost a bet about that if they haven’t but I can’t remember who I made the bet with and I suck at navigating this site. A little help.

This will get you caught up...


1 week later
#7354 67 days ago

Double 5.

1 week later
#7364 55 days ago

Thanks...I’ve been slacking!

#7387 54 days ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

I personally was rooting for a Deeproot, but I no longer believe a damn thing that Robert says. He reminds me of a fake politician that spins the truth to suit his needs. Deeproot will go nowhere and it has failed before it started like so many before them. The very people working for the company know this and are just happy to milk the cow while they can.

Do you, thedarkknight77, think the launch will happen in 42 days as scheduled?

#7389 54 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Looks like it will.
LTG : )

I definitely think it will...anticipation is growing! I wasn’t very clear...I was asking thedarkknight77 if he thinks it will happen.

#7421 53 days ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Oh, they will launch on time with a bunch of games that are 30% done. Their launch will be followed by Seven day’s of Kaneda podcasts bashing them. We already know that their big innovation is a cabinet system with lighting, that allows for swappable playfields. What good is that concept if no one wants their titles.

thedarkknight77...we already know that their big innovation is a cabinet with interchangeable playfields? We do???

#7473 51 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What did Robert say, in the last Kaneda podcast interview, or write in any public announcement, that makes some of you think that deeproot would be going the route of swappable playfields? I just don't see any evidence.


#7475 51 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

They patented a playfield removal mechanism.

I believe this is just for ease of service. And just because they patented it doesn’t necessarily mean they will use it on the final design.

#7510 49 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

No, what they are doing makes sense.
Pinside .... is being pinside lol

Agreed. What they are doing makes perfect sense and is not uncommon with new businesses. They came out of the gate swinging and hyped up their brand by making bold claims, which got a massive reaction out of the pinball community. It put them on the “map” and got people talking about them, a lot...mission achieved. Then they went dark to get some “real” work done with a very impressive group of pinball veterans. The team that deeproot assembled is sometimes overlooked...this is a very talented group. Next, at the Houston show they did some field testing of their new boards that they have developed on an early prototype, which got people talking about them yet again. I’m sure they got some useful data as they were monitoring the games with computers connected and put themselves back in the conversation...mission accomplished. Finally, they will have their official launch next month. They have not asked for $1 from any of us and along the way made good on their offer to Zidware customers, which they did not have to do. Sure they missed some deadlines, most start ups do. But with what I believe they will be showing in 36 days, everything will make sense and the pinball community will understand that they knew what they were doing all along...just my opinion of course.

#7515 48 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Except missing from your analysis was the whole concept of time... and what that means to a company that isn’t actually generating any revenue.
Lets not forget it will have been 2.5 years to get their first product revealed... all while supporting a staff larger than most other upstarts...
How many games have spooky launched in that time?
How about American pinball?
I love how people call missing your own deadlines by nearly 50% “making perfect sense”...

You have a very good point regarding time, but in this particular case time is not as big of a factor as is with a typical startup. What’s so exciting is I believe they are building everything from the ground up and have the time and financial resources to do it “right” and really change the industry in a positive way. Deeproot pinball is only one future source of revenue for the deeproot family of companies. This group currently consists of four separate companies: deeproot Studios, deeproot Tech, deeproot Capital, and deeproot Funds. Notice the last two. I do not have any first hand information about these companies but am speculating that they are more than profitable enough to support the pinball division for whatever time is needed until they become a profitable entity within the deeproot family.

#7521 48 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Man... you drank the koolaid, bought the T-Shirt AND mug...
The only factor in your point above is having a bigger reserve tank before you run empty. Simply put.. more runway. That doesn't negate that the money is spent. And unlike other industries... there is no Golden Parachute buyout at the end. Deeproot pinball isn't going to get bought up by a bigger fish. So all monies spent need to be recovered from one place... sales. Sure you can have a sugar daddy giving you free money... but the ROI has to come from sales. So the longer you are burning money.. it simply makes the hole deeper.

Again... where do you recover the money spent? The point isn't if someone can afford to keep throwing money away.. the point is it's all a business. They are expecting to make money. The longer you run in the red.. the harder and harder that becomes.
You kind of have it backwards a bit.. Deeproot pinball is a child of the parent legal entities.. they existed prior. And deeproot studios is just a fancy way of trying to market the team he pulled together for other projects. Unless they are making sales... it really doesn't matter in this conversation if it's 1 company, or 6. They are digging a huge hole that eventually needs to be filled back in with margin from sales.
No 'perfect sense' strategy tries to put the company so far in the hole to start. And no, having a sugar daddy asset fund to feed you operating dollars isn't really 'strategy' either. It's simply having a parachute to bail out the capital needs. It's a safety net, not a strategy.

All very valid points...I appreciate your view and your response. No offense taken on your opening comment as I actually did find it funny...I haven’t drank any koolaid (hope to have a t-shirt someday ), but I do have kind of a “blind faith” when it comes to deeproot, maybe it’s just wishful thinking? I’ve had a good “gut feeling” about them from the very beginning. I hope I am right about what they have in store for us, cause if they fail, I see nothing in the pipeline from anyone to change the path we are on of lower quality and higher prices. Companies like Stern, which I do like very much, need challenged and to feel threatened to cause them to change for the better and I feel deeproot is the only shot we have right now for significant positive change in the industry. Otherwise, I just feel it’s going to be more of the same for the foreseeable future.

#7550 47 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Better to be cautious and wary than stupid and oblivious, ESPECIALLY with the history of small pinball startups. There's a reason the term 'irrational exuberance' exists.

The history of small pinball startups is irrelevant...this is NOT that.

#7552 47 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yeah the "speculating" you are doing is incorrect. Raising $35 million is gonna give you a long pinball runway.
If they can just start getting games out soon, which appears to be the case, and get cash flow positive at some point, they will have the opportunity to grow into a pinball company that can compete with Stern one day.
It takes Stern 300 or so employees to produce approx. 15k pinball machines out the door each year, and that number is growing.
Scaling up to meet demand isn't gonna be easy, ask JJP. Competition is a great thing!

Just asking...which part of my speculation is incorrect?

#7558 46 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

There is a discussion?

There will be...thirty three.

#7564 45 days ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

Ok so 33 days to go until Deeproot launch (of DR Studios as well as DR Pinball)... we're all focussing on pinball, which is fair enough as this is a pinball forum, but can we expect a launch of something else from the animation side? A feature-length animated film perhaps? Or a RAZA universe set animation series for example.

I believe RAZA will go beyond just a pinball machine.

#7574 45 days ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Care to elaborate?

Sure...sorry I wasn’t very clear. What I meant is that I believe RAZA will be a brand/franchise. With the amount of detail they put into the backstory and character development, I feel this had to be done for more than just the pinball machine. An animated series, video game, movie, app, lunchbox (lol), etc. are all possibilities in my mind.

#7576 45 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You would think right but who is gonna buy it?
It takes a TON of $$$ to market a story like that in the mainstream and while they have big money for pinball it’s chump change to do anything else

Agreed...definitely a tall order financially. I would buy it ...I loved the teaser trailer they did awhile back!

#7592 44 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

You're right. They've sold thousands of games and proved they can hang with Stern and JJP.
My bad.

You completely missed the point and countered with another completely irrelevant point. First you compared deeproot to other small startups, which I disagreed with. Then you countered my point by comparing them to established industry leaders Stern and JJP, which clearly makes no sense as deeproot hasn’t even launched yet! Please reference any other pinball startup that assembled a team with anywhere near the experience, talent, and expertise that deeproot has. This, along with deeproot Studios, their deep pockets, and not asking for a dime of pre-order money, is very different than other small pinball startups. I would think you would be able to see the difference, and then again, maybe not?

#7601 44 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Right now Spooky is the only one making games at a reasonable price.


#7645 38 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Does anyone think they will be showing anything more than just a further along prototype of RAZA?

Yes...much more. They are not having their launch event and flying people in to show a “further along prototype of RAZA”.

#7651 38 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Flippable games? Or just more artwork of what's to come?


#7652 38 days ago

...and then some.

#7706 33 days ago

Amazing...first people complained deeproot talked too much. The sentiment was shut up until you have a proper reveal and have a final product to show. So, this is what deeproot has been doing. And now people are complaining they are too quiet and don’t know how to launch a product. Has anyone ever heard of “the element of surprise”?...remarkable. And now the debate is what defines media and who should be allowed to “their” launch event...fantastic!

#7707 33 days ago

At times...Pinside can be more entertaining than reading the tabloids while standing in a check out line at the grocery store.

#7709 33 days ago

Other than some Jpop haters that want anything he is associated with to fail, I truly believe the majority of Pinsiders do want deeproot to be very successful. It would be good for all of us!

#7718 33 days ago
Quoted from marlboroman:

Don’t you ever stop ? Always negative negative negative I get it you lost money and more with all this but you just never stop man ! All you do is ruin it for people who want to enjoy the moment and held out until the end !(Like me) You’ve just become a troll and don’t even know it. Sheesh !

Couldn’t agree more.

#7742 31 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I've been unplugged for about a month. Has there been any other info leaked/released other than on RAZA or MG?[quoted image]

Just speculation. Here is all we know...


#7744 30 days ago

It’s amazing some of the things that get downvotes.

#7746 30 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Feel free to downvote payback

Do what?

#7750 30 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Feel free to downvote payback

Hey wolfemaaaaaan (you thought 3 a’s was cool...6 is way cooler), you never answered my question...what’s this downvote payback thing you speak of???

#7756 29 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

It’s where you go and find all the post by the down voters of your posts and down vote them... kinda tit-for-tat reciprocity. It can really whack your d/u ratio... if you post a lot... just think if one user went and down voted every one of your posts and you have made hundreds or maybe thousands of posts, well, that’s still a lot of unanswered down Votes and no ups... so then you create a fake account or accounts to go and boost your up votes, then Robin gets wind of what you are doing, so you get perma-banned and now the problem is solved.

I do appreciate the explanation even though I did know what he meant. I was hoping the wolfmaaaaaan himself would enlighten us by explaining his childlike antics.

#7782 29 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

Probably the same reason I downvoted it. The countdown was old like a week ago.

I can understand and respect someone not enjoying the countdown...but to downvote a Pinsider’s enthusiasm and excitement for the official launch of the company whose thread you are posting in???

#7785 29 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I downvoted you complaining about downvotes. Because it’s a broken record and not necessary.

I was looking out for other Pinsiders that in my opinion were getting downvoted for no good reason. I wasn’t even the one that got downvoted that caused me to post about it in the first place. Oh well...it was just an observation. Thank you...carry on...

#7790 28 days ago
Quoted from chad:

This thread needs and official count down device.

ds_nadine IS the official countdown device!

#7791 28 days ago

...and what a great job he is doing!

#7794 28 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Gosh darn it, I was really hoping there would be more info on the other releases by now. AIW has always been a dream theme for me. What really surprises me is that we live in a age of leakers and we haven't seen anything leaked yet. It's actually shocking to me. And why doesn't DR post updates? Who cares if it's not moving along at a speed they talked about. I for one dig humility, it shows sincereity ya know? C'mon DR let's see some new stuff!

Deeproot’s silence and the fact that there have been no leaks is quite impressive...adds to the anticipation in my opinion. 17 days and you are going to see some new stuff!

1 week later
#7928 22 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I thought this was a forum to discuss deep Root pinball? Maybe I walked through the wrong door again... anyone seen an exit sign?

Agreed. Other than the direct impact the virus may have on deeproot’s launch, it’s just not relevant to this thread. I am not minimizing the seriousness of the situation we are all in, but it is not necessary for every thread to get infiltrated with coronavirus talk...there are other threads here on Pinside dedicated to it.

#7945 21 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There’s zero chance this event happens in two weeks. Unless they are about to run out of money and seriously have no other option.


#7960 21 days ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

The virus is called SARS CoV 2, and it causes the Covid 19 disease. There is no "Chinese" involved. So let's just keep it that way and move on...

I moved on long ago. Just over one week until the official launch...anticipation is building...what’s behind those curtains???

#7965 21 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

To be honest my anticipation died of a little bit and I'm just feeling sorry for everyones businesses.
Deeproot is allready a year late and has to launch, no matter what, and I can't think of worse circumstances then now.
Let's hope all pinball shows, barcades etc. survive that low time. (And of course everyone else.)
(That all said I really want a new pinball at home now more then ever. XD )

Agreed and well said. My excitement for the launch has waned as well...this whole thing has put me in a funk. I was just trying to escape the constant in your face and everywhere you turn coronavirus talk. Once again, not minimizing the situation we are all in. Carry on...

#7985 20 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Not a big fan of the president?

He clearly is not...but he sure is a big fan of watching himself type.

#8000 19 days ago

I wish deeproot and all other pinball related companies the best during this unique and trying time. I still believe deeproot will be a very successful company in the long run, but clearly this is not good for them in the short term. At this point I feel there is nothing left to speculate regarding deeproot...we have all more than exhausted that probably long ago...but it has been fun! Until any news comes from deeproot themselves, I’m going to sit back and be patient from a distance. I look forward to ds_nadine hopefully resuming his “job” as the official countdown device for Pinside regarding deeproot’s launch. Everyone take care of your health and be safe!

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