(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Quoted from kermit24:RAZA is a limited run game. I don’t think anyone who goes in on it will be that upside down as long as the game ships.
Arcade version is not limited.
Xtra Version limited to "only" 300 games.
LOL.
Quoted from Mercifull:I didn’t know until this thread you had any prior connection to Deeproot, even if that is more via JPOP, I watched a few of your old YouTube videos when you were building a machine years ago (I think the one that morphed into American Horror or some sort of haunted house, I can’t remember) I presumed (obviously incorrectly) that you launched Spooky straight from that
I guess a lot of people on Pinside probably knew all that already, but some of us don’t... they just see a new manufacturer which has created something quite cool looking weirdly getting a lot of negative attention.
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland was LITERALLY Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland:
Look at the date in the upper left corner. 2011.
Deep Root is the FOURTH ATTEMPT to release this game. And they don't have enough money left to order parts....
Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that they are the 4th company in a row, including Zidware, trying to release JPop's games. There is a long, terrible history of money being wasted on this man with zero results.
I still remember watching the video of Ben designing the "4D" room at JPop's shop. It was a rotating circle with 3 separate rooms that you could play under the playfield. The location of that room was the green section below the Xenon Gas Tube Shot. You can see the "4D" logo on the left side too:
When Ben left the project, JPop of course could not get the room to work on his own and removed it. Other versions of the playfield put a spinner in that location but still kept the 4D logo:
1 week later
Quoted from pinballwil:Do you pinside cry babies have nothing else to do??? Than bitching Deeproot for what?
Go shame yourself, you don't deserve to be in this hobby. Go somewhere else jerking around.
LOL
Quoted from cpr9999:Yup - thanks for reposting.
Could someone repost again?
Where else in this thread was this info posted? This is the first I've heard of it.
Blanket indemnity? Yikes...
1 week later
The Deep Root team as of November 30th 2018:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181130144022/http://deeproottech.com:80/
By January 2019 the team had been reduced to this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190101001724/http://deeproottech.com:80/
And Dennis Nordman is still listed on the site, even though he left...
Where'd everybody go?
Quoted from Scandell:Over half of those people no longer work there
If half those people are gone, then they've reduced down from 43 to 9 or less people.
www.web.archive.org/web/20190805104222/http://deeprootstudios.com:80/team/
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Ok guys time to unclench. None of this actually has anything to do with DR
4siet6 (resized).jpgQuoted from DS_Nadine:Only thing they really ‚did‘ was collecting money for the actual run.
Nope. Robert said this money wasn't being used to buy parts or make the games, remember?
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Quoted from DennisNordman:Don't mis-quote me. I did not say that.
Fair enough. I'll update it and make it more accurate. What exactly did you say again?
1 week later
Quoted from DennisNordman:Don't mis-quote me. I did not say that.
I went back and dug up your words from the Super Awesome Pinball Show:
Interpret it any way you want, but your words about Deep Root are pretty damning. You left because they wouldn't get one of your games done. Your words, not mine...
Quoted from iceman44:It’s not like your track record is hall of fame worthy. Lol
Ben is the only person in pinball history to design EVERY aspect of a pinball game. Including the fucking HARDWARE.
Oh and look!! 150 units sold!! (not 130... of which MAYBE 50 weren't goodwill units to Zidware customers...)
And they SHIPPED THESE TO CUSTOMERS!!!
He helped Spooky get off the ground.
I still remember your posts from years ago telling everybody that Zidware was going to wipe the floor with Spooky.
LOL is right...
Quoted from iceman44:They are all free to leave NOW aren’t they?
Has Robert enslaved them? If it was that easy to get another job and DR was a total
Shit place to work then why have any of the “good people” stayed?
That's a good question... 
Quoted from iceman44:Fast forward to the real world, which we live in, DR will make the remainder of the smart people whole.
Only haiku from here on out for me in this thread.
Any pics of games?
Octo-manufacturing
should be underway
What ever happened
To Hammer Testing playfields?
No more warranty
Game one is the key
Don't design eight games at once
You'll run out of cash
FOMO didn't work
There's no profit being made
On this quantity
Internal deadlines
Are no longer external
So timelines have changed
Pinball is easy
Unless you are building them
Then pinball is hard
If I meet Frolic
Dinner is on me for sure
You are good people
So still no pictures?
Hard to believe at this point
Hope this changes soon
Without a timeline
There is no idea when
RAZA's will go out
Does Steven Bowden
Ever give any info
About production?
Quoted from Rarehero:Why would he know? He’s paid to write rules.
Robert is quiet
Steve at least posts publicly
Figured I would ask
Email didn't work
Orders were lost forever
Seems like a big deal
Quoted from Tranquilize:I was seriously considering a purchase and did reach out. This is what I recieved:
[quoted image]
Lady luck appears in strange ways...
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Quoted from rai:I haven’t read this whole thread. What’s the current state of affairs with DR?
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Quoted from benheck:One of the many things Kaneda is right about is how engineers are the true unsung heroes of pinball. I see this with my CGC game, the skill Pete is bringing to my concepts.
5dz41n.gif 1 week later
Quoted from NicerSoul:Anyways. The glee people in this thread take in talking shit about Robert Muller(sp? don't care, on borrowed time) and his company in this thread is like... unbelievably petty and ridiculous. Because the guy talked too much shit for everyone on Pinsides' liking?
I actually think this was Robert. He even misspelled his own name on purpose to try to throw us off his trail. "I can't believe you guys enjoy making fun of RoEbUrTt MaUeLlEyR or howEVER that gosh-darned guys named is spelled, because he's a NATIONAL TREASURE!!"
Quoted from benheck:Whoever Nicersoul was, I hope Robert paid them well (using PPP loans taken against the value of our cash)
I've updated their logo to make sure nobody forgets how we paid for shit they can't even build:
1 week later
Quoted from Concretehardt:LMAO not saying I’m one of the funny guys around here but good grief, I wanted to ask him a quick RAZA question so I went to shoot him a PM and BAM! Someone is a bit thin skinned I guess.
I just checked mine and I'm still in the club too. LOL
Quoted from kevmad:How did this thread wander off into Enron and Arthur Anderson and the origin of German surnames? Very interesting stuff but it maybe should be in another thread?
Of the 20,000 posts I wonder how many are related to deep root?
It really makes it hard to keep up with what’s happening with deep root.
Mods can you please try and keep this on topic?
Quoted from ZNET:When I see Vegetable Farm suggested in jest as a game title, I immediately think of Orwell's Animal Farm. I imagine a niche pinball manufacturer creating unconventional titles like Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm or Catcher in the Rye.
These and other classic novels of the forties and fifties have been on every high school syllabus for decades. No, they don't contain obvious paths to implement. But, the characters, like many other literary creations, are compelling and universal in their appeal to the human condition.
Indeed, pinball springs largely from the angst, alienation and ambitions of teenage boys. What better protagonist exists to exemplify that paradigm than Holden Caulfield?
Of course, the Salinger estate would never allow such a use. Animal Farm > Food Truck.
It's got Animal in the name. Lol. Most people don't even remember this game.
Quoted from flynnibus:Being told things isn’t nearly as hard as actually going out and finding things. I’m sure most of his leads are from people who tell for their own selfish reasons because they know what he’ll do with it.
Quoted from iceman44:Lighten up and pull the cork out fellas. Wound up a bit tight.
It’ll be ok. I promise!
Says the guy who constantly rage quits this forum and can't even read this post because you blocked me. Lol
Quoted from TreyBo69:Dang…he really was paying a couple dozen people to make cutscenes for pinball games?
I thought he was misguided and egotistical, but this is just insane.
1 week later
Quoted from Yoreland:I would love to work with J pop.
Trying to help JPop at Zidware was the single worst experience I've had professionally. He's a taker and a liar. He doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. He lied to me constantly and he knew exactly what he was doing.
Nobody is being overly harsh about him. You've just never worked with him before. You'd be saying the same shit about him as the rest of us if you did. I need to dig through my old emails...
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Ok, ok, so wait a minute.
Did Jpop really show up at Expo in a Range Rover with a Jpop license plate?
Yes. He bought himself a Range Rover with the Zidware pre-order money very early on.
Companies who bought Greatwich's "tech": Please stop posting about us on Pinside.
Greatwich: Posts 38 times on Pinside saying that he's not supposed to talk about them on Pinside.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I noticed something was off right away and realized it must have been a recent adjustment because didn't have the same reaction to earlier ones
Yup. I altered his face size in my meme for the lolz.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Just because Deeproot seems to be done for the final count as a pinball company. It does not mean any of these JPOP games or other titles done there will not see the light of day in the future. We will have to see who buys what is left & what they want to do with the assets. Could be they do nothing, could produce under license if allowed, or could just retheme stuff.
Pinball production is NOT EASY, but it is not impossible. Almost all real pinball manufacturers contract out parts production, & just do final builds. The other part is design & code usually done in house. But even that can be contracted out.
It is a free world towards speech but there are some (many) vocal people thinking they know it all here. See what more abuse I get here again. Even a small dedicated group with proper management, skilled staff, & resources can get games built. If you are a dreamer or have no game plan you are likely to fail.
Everyone has high hopes for Spooky, Haggis, P3, Dutch Pinball, Heighway, & even Homepin to advance in this tough pinball market with the big players. But time will tell in the future who continues on, & who might come to a end.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:JPOP could be managed in the future. You would have to set short term goals & make sure he stays focused. After all the failures he has had since the glory days finishing with the closing of WMS. You would think that he will have to drastically change & take a lower job to move forward. He has some good ideas, along with wacky & poor ones. That is why he has continued dreaming the last 20 years.
There is likely some good that will come out of this failure with Deeproot. Bad to throw people under the bus when you are just hoping for a paying job. Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
All new starts & even the big players can go under. Pinball Manufacturing is HARD, so is getting good financial backing.
Quoted from Haymaker:Well what is this rumor I am hearing about RIOT pinball building AIW with AP? It even says coming soon on their website now that I checked. Is this what you keep alluding to greatwichjohn?
If this actually is true, it seems totally ridiculous. AIW is just another sketch of a game that would take monumental amounts of effort to turn into a workable game. You would think AP wouldn't want to get mixed up in the exact same fiasco as Houdini. Plus its got Zombie Yeti art that I don't think was ever paid for, and does Bill Brandes own the rights to AIW pinball? Maybe Riot has just quietly been working on it behind the scenes and have a working prototype. I don't know...seems crazy to me.
This has been on Riot Pinball's website for ages:
AIW is open IP. Anybody can make it.
Quoted from Scandell:Art thieves. Not a good way to start.
[quoted image]
WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:FCC is a smokescreen not likely anything to do with pinball production hold up. JPOP was not the multimillion dollar problem with Deeproot Pinball. If anything is learned from this is you have to have Real Manufacturing in place to survive. Stop dreaming & start making games. Robert was all over the place with crazy ideas & no game plan. How hard is it to make a production line. All the info is out there even the failed Dutch Pinball contractor info which we likely were not told the real problems.
1 week later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Deeproot needed a real PR person. Not Robert is what we have learned.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from JStoltz:Not that I care, but since you're correcting him-- are you sure about this?
https://writingexplained.org/could-of-or-could-have
https://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/should_of_would_of_could_of.htm
EDIT 1: I'm not pretending to have known better, I had to google to see what was correct (like most people I follow grammar rules on muscle memory, not rule memorization. Any time I stop to think too long about grammar rules I end up second guessing myself).
EDIT 2: I see you posted a while back about how "could of" and "would of" are nonsensical, so I guess I just missed the sarcasm font on this post.
He's just very cleverly pointing out that I "should have" used Greatwich's grammar in my meme... Which I totally "should of" done... LOL
1 month later
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