(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

2 years ago

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  • 8,839 posts
  • 656 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 194 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

11 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (8 months ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (8 months ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (8 months ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (8 months ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (8 months ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (8 months ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (8 months ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (8 months ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#4 2 years ago

Agreed. I'll listen to/read the interview, but comparisons like "build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices" are just ridiculous. I get the concept, but the engine in a Ferrari costs as much as two KIAs do. These are the types of things used car salesmen say.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Here is the link mentioned above for the deeproot job postings: https://www.indeedjobs.com/deeproot-tech/_hl/en_US

Are those typical salaries for the industry?

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What's left for John to rob from the EM graveyard? Rototargets? Flipping Flags?

There is one big idea he could steal that he hasn't yet........ actually completing a game.

#88 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That interview delivered!!!
Eagerly awaiting this promised "masterpiece!"

Don't forget Ferrari quality at the cost of a KIA.

Guess I'm just a "pessimist" though.

1 month later
#164 2 years ago

Quality of a Ferrari at a Kia price. Can't wait to see it.

#206 2 years ago
Quoted from clempo:

Does anybody have any idea what Quad Assembly could be?

Another piece of jargon spewed to seem "advanced".

You want to impress me about manufacturing? Throw out terms that mean something, like lean or six sigma.

What kind of ego comes out of the gate basically claiming they are going to smash everyone else's product. The only place to go from there is down.

#301 2 years ago

Only losers try to claim credit, winners give credit.

#337 2 years ago

Could add Houdini to that list as well. Even though deeproot claims they will be making it, Jpop's houdini has yet to be produced.

1 week later
#411 2 years ago

Just read through the goodwill terms. Interesting.

#417 2 years ago

I think this should be saved here for posterity. 508 days to get multiple games delivered.

https zidware deeproottech com.png

#487 2 years ago
Quoted from DennisK:

Alright, the podcast episode just released, here is a link:
The interview is just after the introduction segment (jump ahead to 4:30 to get just before it starts), and runs a little over 50 minutes.

In this interview deeproot says that every playfield will be hit with a sledgehammer and if it leaves a mark the playfield will be rejected.

#502 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

My guess is the sledge hammer is metaphorical. Because why would you need to use one to test a pin?

You sure? He was pretty adamant that was how they were going to test their clear coat. Said he was tired of dimples.

You should see the sledge hammer testing room at Ferrari.

#510 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

On the sledgehammer, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not a metaphor. Warranty for PF will be unheard of, so we take its durability seriously.

Wait, you mean you aren't going to take a sledgehammer to every playfield? No kidding, it's dumb.

Maybe cut back on the over-exaggeration. You completely discredit other things you say when you say obviously wrong/incorrect things.

#512 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

You misunderstood. We will be taking a hammer to every PF.

I look forward to seeing that. Think you guys will post video at some point?

#524 2 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Every playfield will be hit with a hammer multiple times as T-nuts are installed, maybe this is what they are referring to?

But the playfield will be so impenetrable, how will the t-nuts go in?

2 months later
#774 2 years ago

Is pettiness an official claim denial reason?

#784 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

remember when they said they could/would deny claims based on people tearing them down? well, I think you see them doing that here

So pre-meditated pettiness?

#807 2 years ago

Of course they have his documentation, deeproot just wants to play some kind of power game.

#838 2 years ago

I can't remember either if it was 5 by TPF, but they definitely had this in their literature about the JPop deal:

https zidware deeproottech com.png

Says multiple titles by the delivery date, which is June 30th, 2019 in that document. 422 days to go.

1 month later
#898 2 years ago

Bowden is certainly an interesting hire and I wish him the absolute best there.

I still have a huge problem with them hiring JPop, but for the sake of people like Steve I'm not going to wish failure on the company.

#953 2 years ago

Hold up there. Elon Musk is positioned to be the savior of humanity if his plans come to fruition.

There is a stark difference between him and your run of the mill, egotistical, mid size CEO.

4 weeks later
#1148 2 years ago

Copperfield blows compared to Penn and Teller. Copperfield's show in Vegas was lame when i saw it.

#1157 2 years ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I read reviews that for the past few years he's just been going through the motions. Every once in awhile people catch him on a good night, but most of the time the show is lacking any energy.

I saw him around 15 years ago. He was doing his "I can fly" trick at that point.

It was 30 minutes of him droning on about how he had a dream when he was a child about flying, blah blah, for one trick. No thanks.

The blue man group would make a better pinball machine than a Copperfield pin. The Blue Man group was an amazing show.

#1193 2 years ago

A piece of titanium the size of a playfield would weigh about 80 pounds and only cost around $200k.

1 week later
#1275 1 year ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Best of luck Steve


I hope this adventure for Steve turns out to be fun and enjoyable!

#1307 1 year ago

Hah, you thought doing content for a relatively small LCD involved more work, expand that to a playfield sized LCD with full physics engine and stuff.

Good luck generating the content to make that compelling without AAA game studio size staff and talent, even if you leverage unity.

1 month later
#1503 1 year ago

I have a recent pachinko machine and it has a 3D LCD that doesn't require glasses.

#1588 1 year ago

What about that movie The Final Countdown where the nuclear aircraft carrier goes back in time.

That's a winner right there.

#1663 1 year ago

It's just people having fun and lightening the mood. Not everything has to be super serious for the entire time, just my 2 cents.

I'm as skeptical of deeproot as anyone, but I'm willing to watch the thing play out.

#1676 1 year ago

The main guy there reminds me a lot of Green Goblin in his armor.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

1 month later
#1954 1 year ago

More full time heads than all the other manufacturers combined? That seems overstated. Either that or potentially pushing up against Brooks' Law.

4 months later
#2824 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

The sound and video is just STUNNING in this clip. If this is just the tip of the iceberg!?

Neat but certainly not "STUNNING".

#2865 1 year ago

No matter what they charge, it comes down to EBIT and revenue per widget moved out of the building.

Just doing some simple math, at 750k a month going out, if they have operated at that burn rate for 6 months and will operate for 6 more months before steady revenue, that is 9 million dollars in the red.

If they make even a very generous 3k per machine they get out the door, that is 3000 games they have to sell to even recoup that cost, not counting the ongoing burn. With these numbers they have to ship 250 games a month to break even.

I think im being very generous with the 3k profit per machine too.

The math/business case on this is rough. I wonder when we will see a SaaS model in pinball.

#3046 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

There's a simple reason why pinball doesn't have any of this advanced technology.
It's not because it isn't possible. It's because everyone capable of doing it already have six figure jobs at SpaceX, Apple, Tesla, NASA, Lockheed Martin or (insert giant tech corp here).

I think that is really dismissive of some of the very smart engineers that work at Stern for example.

Anything is solvable with money and man power, especially at the level pinball is at. A more accurate reason in my opinion is there is no business case or return on some of these ideas.

When JJP bailed on the pirates mech, that was an engineering failure due to lack of experience/smarts. They said so.

When Stern isn't putting video camera ball tracking in games, that's business smarts.

1 week later
#3280 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I think people spend too much time thinking and talking about Jpop.

And not enough time on the other people there. There’s a ton of real experience and talent in the game making department not named John.

I get what you are saying and agree to some extent, but if an investment firm hired Bernie Madoff, that would overshadow anything else and be a lot of what people want to talk about.

3 weeks later
#3640 1 year ago

I'm here because LTG told me there was free shit.

2 weeks later
#3805 1 year ago

Maybe DR has online components and they don't want to deal with a European data center and GDPR? That's 100% a guess, but something I run into at work all the time. I can't make certain product offerings in the UK/Europe until it makes business sense for me to spin up environments there.

Privacy laws have made it too restrictive for me to spread the goodness internationally.

1 week later
#3939 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

Stay out of it Ben. I consider your comment to be providing legal advice without a license.

Come on, you know that isn't true.

4 months later
#5338 8 months ago
Quoted from Jazman:

They've promised so much, bashed on everyone else for doing it wrong, and claimed they could deliver a Ferrari in a fraction of the time for the price of a Yugo. I expect them to deliver nothing less or they might as well stay home...
My 2 cents...

Don't forget every playfield will be hit with a hammer, and if it dents it's no good.

pasted_image (resized).png

#5436 8 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Imagine if they Do sell RAZA and one or two other initial titles for lets say, $4,495 (as a "release special").... just to show they mean business, and to get some examples of their proud creations out in the world, more rapidly... ?

Let's do a quick back of the napkin business case with those kind of numbers.

Assume that they've come up with some crazy cheap unit cost, including assembly labor and all the below the line numbers, and that unit cost to deeproot is $1500. Let's say they sell them at $4500 just to make it easy. That gives them $3k margin per unit.

If Robert's claims of $750k a month are correct, and we pretend they've only been in business for the first 10 months of 2019, ignoring all the time before, that's $7.5M in cost. At a fantastic $3k margin, they would have to sell 2500 games to break even on 2019 alone. If you add in all the time they've spent before 2019......

Do I think they've actually gotten unit cost down to something like $1500? Probably not.

#5676 8 months ago

Super curious why this metal cutout was necessary. Im guessing choosing to have the ball return here kept hitting the sling?

image-15 (resized).png
1 week later
#6606 8 months ago

EDIT: removed the info from this post so it doesn't confuse anyone.

#6608 8 months ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

That's the deeproot fund. It's a different LLC than the deeproot pinball company. It's unclear how Deeproot pinball is operating, whether it has access to monies from the sales of equity in the deeproot fund.
Says the fund is backed by life insurance policies "and affiliates". No idea if a pinball machine company is considered an affiliate.

Ok so completely different entity. I edited my above post so my questions wouldn't confuse anyone.

1 week later
#6821 8 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Several years ago, a rookie manufacturing company called Jersey Jack came out with their first prototype, a machine called Wizard of Oz.
Pinside went hysterical about weak flippers and it was the end of the world.
Déjà fucking vu

I hope it's not complete deja vu , because JJPs weak flippers were probably just the herald for some major engineering blunders under the hood there in the beginning. Remember when their first engineer botched the design of their light system?

Quoted from vicjw66:

But most important was that JJP still hasn’t figured out how to make snappy flippers.

Also this. I don't know what it is about JJP flippers but they feel "off".

2 weeks later
#6934 7 months ago

An all day launch event for pinball machines?

That seems excessive.

1 month later
#7433 5 months ago

Don't forget, not only are they showing games, but they've said they have revolutionary manufacturing techniques........

Wasn't it "quad assembly" or something? Also playfield you can hit with a sledgehammer.

1 month later
#8022 4 months ago

Glad deeproot decided to cancel, it was the right thing to do.

2 weeks later
#8164 4 months ago

I don't know if that was a joke or not, if you follow their employees on linked in you can see several points in time where more than 1 person indicated their job ended.

#8212 4 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Somebody needs to shoot that documentary.
Would crush the Tiger King.

Not a chance.

Nobody in pinball is that interesting.

#8258 4 months ago

At this point don't they legally owe some people games? Their agreement kept people from going after JPop for their money.

2 months later
#8609 54 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I hope Deep Root is ramping up what they are planning to do when that old photo that's been floating around for years of Barry O in full blackface/pimp costume starts circulating a little more.

I just saw that the other day for the first time. Yikes.

#8616 54 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Did Barry really throw on the black face?

Yes. I saw the picture myself a few days ago for the first time.

4 weeks later
#8758 25 days ago
Quoted from WODKA:

They sure can.. Giving people the chance to see and play a new game on a show is so much better than just releasing it on the web.

Is that true though? Stern is having no problem selling TMNT without all the in-person showings.

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