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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

3 years ago

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  • 872 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 15 hours ago by LTG
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17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (1 year ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (1 year ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (1 year ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (1 year ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#2330 1 year ago
Quoted from deeprootmatt:

So i want to take a minute here to give my own personal account and experience working with Jpop. I figure a sort of third party opinion from someone who has been working closely with him over the last 1.5 years might be of interest. Again, this is my own personal opinion.
I will also preface this message with this: I get it. He screwed up. A lot of people here are upset. And i completely understand that. I will continue to stay out of that as much as i can and focus on what I can do: doing my part in bringing about success for deeproot.
John has been, and continues to be a great friend. He is always able to provide valuable insight into whatever aspect I am working on. The amazing conversations we have had are numerous, and his passion for pinball is absolutely contagious. I have now been brought into the pinball world i never knew existed.. and its amazing! I have learned more over the last 1.5 years than I could have ever imagined and John has had a big part in that. So I wanted to take this moment to share this with you guys, and take it as you will.
Also, I hate to leave out the other amazing people I get to work with as John is just one of MANY people at deeproot. All of us here are REALLY excited for what is to come, and it is coming!

Thanks for the post and personal insights!

I'm fairly new to this community, so I don't have the possible personal issues towards John that many have, and I can't imagine the complexity of that at all for those people. I can only say he designed some of my favorite games when I was a teenager, and I anxiously await seeing what comes from Deeproot. I just kinda would happen, at some point.

Good luck to ya, and please do forward good vibes to John for me!

3 months later
#3440 1 year ago
Quoted from frankmac:

[quoted image]

I'd like to say and feel that I'm excited, but this feels like a worse and longer tease than trying to date an Amish woman.

I guess at least the pastries would turn out well in the end.

#3442 1 year ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Not if you meet her during Rumspringa.

Oooh damn, good point! Says the man....possibly with experience? (Rushes to the Amish romance section at Walmart to brush up!)

I really hope this deeproot stuff pays off soon. Now I can empathize with all of the long year long waits people have had with game unveils over the past few years.

#3468 1 year ago

Robert seems to have so much swagger, and so little sense.

#3589 1 year ago

Last time I saw this much weird trolling by a businessman was in the Todd Tuckey book deal thread........

1 month later
#4042 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

the other day some of you were trying to tell the deeproot story through the use of proverbs. is that even possible?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Learn to walk before you run.
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
Don’t bite off more than you can chew.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.
A leopard doesn’t change its spots.
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
The show must go on.
Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Better late than never.
Every dog has his day.
Good things come to those who wait.
It’s not over till it’s over.
You can’t win them all.
Get out while the getting is good.
Half a loaf is better than none.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
[quoted image]

"Half a loaf is better than none."

Tell that to Meatloaf. He could lose a few....

4 months later
#5627 1 year ago

Interesting. For some reason those leds look so uniform, almost like they're more groups than individual leds? It looks really, really fluid, light animation wise.

There are several videos in that facebook link, by the way!

#5637 1 year ago
Quoted from Gotfrogs:

I got to play RAZA tonight and meet some of the Deeproot team. The display On the back box is really nice. I love the wide screen that goes completely across the width of the machine. I can’t wait to see the final product![quoted image][quoted image]

There seems to be a green hue/glow to the photos and video taken so far. Is it weird lighting, or are the greens this dominant so far?

#5645 1 year ago
Quoted from Gotfrogs:

The lighting in the room was very strange. Big metal halides overhead. The games looked much better in person.

Phew! Thank you for that clarification!

Quoted from wlf_:

Maybe in place of the current backglass will be a big big ol' screen? Animations seem important to what Deeproot is doing

This is what I was wondering also.

Why wouldn't the entire backglass be an led diode or filament?

Deeproot has been explicitly stating innovation comes first, so I'd have to think, hope so anyway, that these are the pinball bones onhand, and the innovations will be seen at the official unveiling just before production. Cabinet design, playfield hinges, playfield design itself, and hopefully something like an animated, ever shifting backglass, along with scoring and mode details.

One can hope, anyway.

If they can price things at or lower than Stern, I hope they can chip away some marketshare from them, as innovation, and value, is certainly not what Stern pushes towards natively. Deeproot has incessantly been stressing innovation, and value, even today Robert stated that, so hopefully this is literally the pinball foundation, and not the trimmings.

#5785 1 year ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

FIRST LOOK Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA) Gameplay
Subscribe Now to Flip N Out Pinball YouTube for exclusive pinball streams, reveals, series, entertainment, and more!

I have to hope this format is a placeholder. You can't view opponent's scores very well from afar, though not many games present that very well either.

Screenshot_20191115-190906_YouTube (resized).jpg
#5814 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

[quoted image]

How was the movie last night?

#5834 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Amazing! I could definitely see myself owning a Ford Vs. Ferrari pinball machine, old man theme or not.

Glad you dug it! Definitely my must watch in the theater, till years' end!

#5938 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

On one hand I’m surprised at the haterade in here, but on the other hand that’s expected out of Pinside.
Opinion fully formed after a few photos and some blurrycam videos. Pretty sad.
I had fun playing it. It’s a good game and I’d buy one.

I hope no one has a fully formed opinion, even this is still in prototype form.

Thank you for getting more videos out there!

I am concerned at the level of success of getting the ball into the upper half of the playfield. That spinner seems a bit too low, much lower than the lamp from TOTAN.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What’s most odd is how this whole thing is so decidedly un-deeproot.
We went from “five days of deep root” to this?
It’s a “soft reveal” on par with cosmic carnival or Team Mafia.
I was at least hoping for the game to descend from the sky, or at least for some pyro.

It does seem a conflict of interest. Having oodles of hype, and a soft launch in this manner. Whether Robert wants to state this is just a prototype, that doesn't mean this isn't a reveal of some sort, and to display a product seemingly with little to no direct presentation value or seminars, feels a bit off to me.

Quoted from vireland:

Yes, but you won't buy TWO. Coming from you, that says a lot.
My main complaint from the videos is the playfield needs a lot more accent coloring to offset the greens. WAY TOO MUCH GREEN. And using a neon green pantone color instead of screened green, with less green overall, but a much more intense green might make it pop in a more pleasant way. Right now it's like someone vomited green all over everything.

I agree with that color assessment a lot. The only other color that pops, currently anyway, are those hyper orange slings. But hey, it's oozy green martians AND zombies, right? I guess we need green puke all over the place.

I wonder if that green will glow in the dark.....

#5991 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Back at ya Iceman, hope to have a beer and talk/play pinball sometime soon w/ us being fellow Texans!
There have been plenty of games I didn't like this year, btw. I just don't take time to shit on them, or to tell others they are wrong for liking them.
I'm a maker of things myself, and I have great respect for all these pinball projects that make it to fruition, even if they don't speak to me personally. There are 10000 micro-decisions that go into a project of this scope. Many frustrations, disappointments, and successes get the thing from being an idea to a real product someone would buy and use.
When I evaluate a product, I try to remember the real humans on the other end of the wire who put their blood sweat and tears into making it. If that makes me overly positive, that's a character flaw I think I can live with.

But people having contrary opinions, doesn't diminish how you feel about the game. So....why care?

People played the game. They have opinions. That's great to read about!

People have looked at photos, and some scattered videos. That's great to read about!

I don't wish to look at life as being full of absolutes, this game is or will neither be all shit, or all rainbows.

And ultimately, time will tell where the arrow points towards.

#5995 1 year ago
Quoted from ausretrogamer:

Thanks to all that actually took time out from attending the event to film RAZA. The majority of us appreciate it.
One other thing, don’t crap on people that double flip. This is why so-called green pinball players feel intimated to play on location when other ‘better’ players are playing around them. They also never attend tournaments for the same reason. Just my 2c. Back to RAZA talk

I'm a poor player, and I intentionally try to never double flip. Occasionally it'll happen by reflex. I don't compete in tournaments because I suck. Why waste the platform, time of myself or others to wait on me, or money, if I suck?

Knowing when someone sucks at something, understanding our own limitations, is never intimidating. It's the opposite. Empowers me to make smarter choices, like what I said above.

#6078 1 year ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Your video went from good to great when the music blaring the same lyrics over and over again in the background stopped. The game looks fun to shoot, I wonder if it was suffering from the low voltage issues that are common at shows. Seems like a bit more flipper strength and the ramp shot would be makable.

Quoted from Potatoloco:

I felt the same in person as well about the music!
The flippers just weren’t great. They started to have a lot of give by Saturday night and the rubber was tearing off. Hopefully that’s more of an indication of it being played a lot rather than just bad parts.

Wasn't that a live band in the background for the first minute or so? That didn't sound like it was coming from the game. At least I hope not.........

#6084 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So the most important things we got from this:
- There's a lot of people around here that are just plain dead inside get their only joy from bad mouthing everything in sight
- We now know for sure why Stern doesn't show prototypes... or stopped posting here... and why Deeproot just deactivated their account

Did they really just deactivate???

That's one thing that bugs me about all of these pin companies, transparency and direct information in situations like these.

Why isn't there any official press discussion, panel work, publicity handling, PR, trailers, etc?

This may be a prototype, but it IS....IS a game reveal, regardless. And that being said, the best spokesman for this game right now, on this board, in the wild, is Deeproot. And what have we seen officially, nothing? We get discreet phone videos from users. Jack and shit from Deeproot.

So glad Deeproot is continuing the bad Pinball trend of not leading with information first, prior to speculation, and innuendo being created by their target market.


#6092 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

The first footage we got, even before Zach, was a link to a Facebook post.
In that Facebook post was waritten that you'd have to click on the comments to see more video.
We got an official announcement on Deeproots Website aqt the end of May, that was over and over posted here and even with the reveal now a big article on TWIP that says that this is a porototype and while the "game/ playfield" in itself is pretty much finished, the cab art is a placeholer.
First pinside post: CAB LOOKS SHIT!!!
Why bother to do any PR HERE?!?
They do PR. Stern does (a lot of) PR.
They just don't do it here anymore.

The TWIP article was nice. It was a START, after many months of indirect info leaks. It was a fairly light, readable q/a with some basic photos. Why not produce some videos, with all of that highend Hollywood level animation industry talk Robert has discussed, and showcase some features, gameplay, have John discuss things, coders, etc.?

Robert when he was on this site acted in two ways. Boastful and defensive. Now he's nonexistent. Great looks for the head of a company towards the MAIN discussion forum on the net of his target userbase.

If 1/10 people buy or use his product in this thread, awesome! If 9/10 have a critical diminishing attitude, so what? This is a creative product. That is the nature of creation, praise and criticism, which aren't mutually exclusive.

American Pinball has handled many critical threads and issues on here, and several key company people still routinely read, comment, and give info to correct matters, not ignore them.

How did American Pinball handle the criticism of Houdini in several forms, the monkey on the backglass, Oktoberfest animations, the rumor Balcer left? They did so with information, acceptance of user feedback, and grace. They never once ran off with their toys.

Good on ya American Pinball!

#6116 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Could not have said it better. It isn't in their interests to need an account, to put any information out on pinside, why stand up for a troll fest?
They'll still look through it, I'm sure ... but there is only the Very rare post that is worth more than 2c.

.......because how many people deeply invested enough in pinball, buy games that cost $5K and up, and don't then decide to delve into this forum in some manner or form?

I did. And I did so months before buying my first game.

I work in a facility that employs several hundred people, over the course of three shifts, and I wager maybe 5 people out of 500, might have played a pinball game in the past year. Even more, I highly doubt 1 or more people, other than myself, bought a NIB game in the last five years.

So like it or not, Pinside IS the definitive starting block for bringing together, disseminating info, and speaking directly with it's core target market....and globally, in the flash of a second, all at once.

#6126 1 year ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

It was not coming from the game.

Thank you for clarifying David!

Side note, your lovely earworms of melodies are a good reason why POTC and the Hobbit are two games in my very small "collection". Your very indepth, candid stories, and often humor laden panels at shows, that exist on Youtube are also stellar.

Can't wait to hear your future work with Deeproot!

#6343 1 year ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

It's the internet, people like to bitch and moan.
No different than any other forum for any other product/hobby

And just human beings in general. The net provides amplification for an otherwise less audible megaphone.

#6361 1 year ago

So if Pinside is a sewer to Robert then that makes us all.....?

RizzoTheRat (resized).jpg
#6368 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Garbage collectors that might still buy his games.

It's almost as if he's trying deliberately to help people forget the issues they might have with JPop, by being the biggest, most unlikable and obnoxious nob he can be. Is he trying to win an award or something?

When he was on here, I thought things were rough, but this interview really makes it difficult for me to want to consider a game from his company, past a few bucks in.

#6432 1 year ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

I always liked Chuck Conners as the Rifleman too. And Wagon Train was alright too. Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen ...
Gunsmoke would probably make the best pin though.

Saw the Mads, Frank Conniff and Trace Beaulieu riff this a couple years back. Not a bad flick on it's own.

#6456 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

So more than Bally/Williams did in 1995 with 9 different titles? Kinda hard to believe if you ask me.
That's almost 1000 a day boxed up and out the door.

Yeah, that sounds 2 to 3 times too high.

#6546 1 year ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

You don't suck, your just not as good as the gals you hang with.

From seeming like eons ago, sorry for the late reply here.

Haha, I do! I hope they can continually beat me, then point back, and tell anyone that will listen who gave them some pointers, long long ago....

More importantly, I trust you're onbard Chris to pick up some of these for Helicon, Starport, and maybe that other venue you mentioned awhile back.

#6570 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

No. There are people here who hope they are successful.
LTG : )

Very much so!

We can hope for excellent game production, but also acknowledge how bizarre this first showing was, and also how incorrigible and brazen Robert can come across at times. It's not black and white, one or the other, with or against. Rational people settle in the gray towards some direction or none at all.

And his comments not just about this being a sewer, but leaving pinside this summer as the best decision he's made recently, and something about this site being poison weren't exactly inspiring to hear as a potential customer and Pinside user. There were a lot of unflattering comments made by him, which I don't understand, as this site isn't akin to a pinball version of 4chan. I've frankly never been around to witness completely gross or absurd behavior. I don't always agree with people, and at "worst" people offer fairly baselss criticism, and ideally at best constructive criticism, the same as any fan forum. So for me, this place is a valid arena to discuss ideas, and share passion about things.

Robert's attitude on here, frankly, seemed more poisonous, as a potential leader in the hobby, than anything that I've read from any particular forum member to another member on here. He criticized not just other manufacturers, but then the very userbase he wishes to sell to.

#6585 1 year ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

I will. I have no communication with the company however so I can't project anything.

At this point, I'm thinking the more removed you, we all are, from Deeproot directly, we have a much, much better chance enjoying their products!

That whole announcement by Robert regarding him and the media, well his future podcast silence till March at the end of the Kaneda interview, hopefully will allow the oral turds he delivered to de-steam, and let us once again focus on their games, and not his girlish angsty tude'.

3 months later
#7708 9 months ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Amazing...first people complained deeproot talked too much. The sentiment was shut up until you have a proper reveal and have a final product to show. So, this is what deeproot has been doing. And now people are complaining they are too quiet and don’t know how to launch a product. Has anyone ever heard of “the element of surprise”?...remarkable. And now the debate is what defines media and who should be allowed to “their” launch event...fantastic!

I think it stems more from wishing success for them, than judging and assessing them as incompetent.

#7770 8 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

Wednesday March 25th.
See you there.
LTG : )

Are you....IN?!?!?!?

#7886 8 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

They emailed everyone. The event is Still going on but they understand with the close of TPF many will not be able to attend.

Interesting! Makes sense given the smaller numbers.

Thanks for getting the word out!

#7903 8 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

"It is unfortunate that the unprecedented COVID-19 (Chinese coronavirus)"
I'm assuming Robert wrote this. Only he would be dumb enough to include racism in the message. Fox News started this BS.

Dumb and racist. For someone you've never met, I assume, that's awfully presumptuous.

No wonder the guy stays outta this sewer!'s fatiguing all the insta judging and branding we do to one another, often total strangers. How does that make daily life more mellow, enjoyable and peaceful?

#7998 8 months ago

What a bummer to wake up to...

I kind of wonder why they just wouldn't push forward with a video push event. It would still garber massive attention, especially with all conventions and announcements shut down.

2 weeks later
#8197 8 months ago

This thread got

4 months later
#9221 3 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Interesting take. Words are tone deaf so understand I'm not attacking you at all here. For me, the JPOP "magic" is how he has always taken a theme and so excellently integrated it into pinball. The artwork has always been second to none. A JPOP machine is so easy to spot because of it.
Spinny toy (for me personally super annoying)
Weird short skill shot shooter lane (for me personally super annoying)
One "fancy" ramp
Theatre of Magic (for me) was probably one of the "less" toy annoying JPOP jobs. Still weak shooter lane and one fancy ramp.
Now look at RAZA.
CHECK - Spinny toy (Basically every JPOP machine)
CHECK - Weird short skill shot shooter lane (Basically every JPOP machine)
CHECK - One "fancy" ramp (Basically every JPOP machine)
Roll over switches ala WCS94 and CV
Moving target (NED) ala WCS94 striker the goalie
Anyway, Robert spoke quite strongly of "innovation." I'm NOT saying RAZA is bad - but what I am saying is this game is CHOCK full of JPOP recycled ideas. I don't see any innovation here?
In all fairness maybe I'm missing the innovation piece and someone can educate me.

I'm still hoping the innovation comes from what we...haven't...been shown yet. Once they fully unveil RAZA, and ideally one or two more fully functional games (whenever that will occur) then it seems like a more fair time to assess Robert's claim.

Stern is most interested in profit and scraping by with the lowest BOM possible. So any approach or high minded claim other than what Stern is doing year after year, at least is attention getting.

Deeproot is a total fantasy right now, but that fantasy is the most engaging, even compared to JJP possibly being more streamlined as ownership rears it's head with each new game.

#9227 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The fantasy is almost always more exciting and enticing than reality. And deep root has always delivered in this department, in spades.

Ultimately we can only judge them as fantasy until they become a reality.

Even if they don't produce a single game, I kinda feel they'd still be less disappointing than Stern's titles. Now if they produce games as mediocre as Stern, then I'll be genuinely disappointed.

#9231 3 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I was like, yaa, thats some mental gymnastics right there.

Just my view. Not interested in buying games by Stern till they place more into build quality, better lcd, more novel use of the playfield and mechs, etc. I feel like Ripley's felt more like a pin from the B/W's 90's era than anything they've done since, maybe excluding Ghostbusters.

It's great that pinball has survived thanks to them existing solo, but their brand of pinball has never really interested me to the point of owning.

Hopefully Deeproot pushes much farther in the ways I feel Stern has languished. If they don't, more cash in my pocket.

#9243 89 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Sorry not sure many would agree with you on this. Yes they have some issues but that Can and Will happen when you are the primary company building 90% of the pinball world products. Just the law of averages you will have more opinions and yes some issues. I personally Love all that Stern has offered and enough variety (more then one title) to appear to many tastes. Not an easy task I would bet. You might consider Owning a Stern some day to give your personal opinion of their quality and enjoyment vs what is pitched in a forum. Just a suggestion. In my view Stern is doing a lot of amazing things and most companies Wish they were in their position is my guess.

Lots of people would definitely disagree with me for sure, as lots of people are Stern owners, and are pretty contented about that....and that's a positive!

I didn't say that Stern isn't highly accomplished, and very efficient, as well as prolific, and most important profitable! They just don't fit my personal style for aesthetics, quality for price, theme selection, etc. And...that's okay too.

I've thought about buying an Elwin game, if any, but for me I feel like Stern's incredible strengths also hinder in some ways the overwhelming positives he brings.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

See, this post here sums up the delusion of your average deep root fetishist. When you are searching for a meaning in your life, a cure for emptiness, the fantasy (deep root) will always eclipse reality (stern). The delusion and longing for meaning runs so deep that you crave unfulfilled fantasy to the point that it means more to you than actual reality. You can’t touch it, buy it, or play it, yet it’s “less disappointing” than what reality actually has to offer.
It’s really quite fascinating! I’ll be following up with some questions once I secure the collegiate funding grant I need to complete my study on this psychological consumerist phenomena.

Well....that's kind of the point of any fantasy, be it religion, a marriage ceremony, new career you're striving for, a film, etc. Building and striving towards a goal represents hope, and elusive hope can often have a long lifespan, often more than an attainable representation of hope.

Most likely unattainable, but something you very badly wish to occur. Deeproot.

Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Generally I agree that Stern has had some fairly lackluster releases recently - Munsters and Stranger Things come to mind. I hate that they can't even upgrade their damn coil stops, not to mention the clear issues.
But JP2 and Elvira3 have been KNOCK. OUT. good. The gameplay on JP2 is really interesting, the playfield is well laid out, the toys on the Prem are amazing - it's a solid package. (yeah the LCD work is kinda lame). EHOH on the other hand, is almost the reverse. Somehow Lyman figured out how to make the fan layout interesting, the art and LCD screen work is AMAZINGLY well integrated. I am just bowled over by that game. It's super fun, and there are a million modes. I haven't even seen half the game, and I play it every day.

I've heard nothing but overwhelming praise for EHOH, and haven't had a ton of time on it with newer code. And I definitely appreciate Elwin's design sense more than any other recent game by them, except for maybe Deadpool.

#9259 89 days ago
Quoted from beergut666:

I've got two Stern pros. One I paid $5200 NIB and the other was HUO with a bunch of cool mods for $5000. I've had little to no issues with either other than minor tweaks. Please point me in the direction of a better "value" than these. I've got money for a third ready to go. I'm not brand loyal, I'll give my money to anyone (including Deeproot when they reveal a game), but until I see something that better fits what I want out of a pinball machine Stern is always gonna get a look from me.

Stern games are exceptionally adequate and functional games.

They are the definition of a $7.99 pizza from a big box national chain. I don't get excited at all about their product and subsequent timely releases, but man are they dependable!

Case in point. I'd jump on an Avengers Pro for $4500, but wouldn't all the same be super excited to spend that. I also feel the "extras" they have for this game should without a doubt be included on the LE, and should be priced at 6/7K, for me anyway.

#9278 88 days ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Nowdays you choose an LE and still don't recieve the full game, unless you pay More, again. Cheapskate corner cutters, and copycats.

The good games coming from Elwin almost make me want to... but I'd rather just play those titles onsite or somewhere rather than actually want to own any of them.

Ooooh, you mean those "accessories" that most likely cost up to $1,000 EXTRA that should be INCLUDED with the LE's?

I've no blooming idea how Stern produces barely any differences between LE and Premium models, yet that numbered plaque drives people batty!

I feel the same way. I really feel like Elwin mixes fun and challenging shots, and the code on his two existing games have been so much fun, but for me location play always feel the best choice.

#9335 86 days ago

I thought this was a joke....

B.d. = Before Deeproot...?

#9353 86 days ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Every pinball machine or physical item in the universe is limited. Everything is very special limited run. Act now!

Yeah, what with films, games, cars, etc. everything is a collectible, but also shit that'll exist after you're dead. So the collectible angle needs ditching.

This is what I TRY to tell myself daily, anyway.

#9385 85 days ago
Quoted from J85M:

Interested to see if deeproot release something following this tease before JJP release something following their tease months ago!

It's the Year's Greatest Tease Off..!

#9438 83 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You would really be better off if you didn't take that stuff seriously. Enjoy it for whatever entertainment value you get from it but actually forming your own opinions / arguments on it is just an invitation for regret.
Remember how good he said Wonka was gonna be? I don't remember that game destroying any games on the "stern front."

This is an incredibly fair and reasonable response on your end.

Kaneda always fluffs the hype train. Sometimes it's fun, other times it's just inaccurate.

Quoted from Makakka:

We have an unseen paradoxon this month that can knock both your eyes blue. First one AIQLE totally out of the blue just look at the subs many stated they didnt have the money but had to buy anyway just had to buy this stunner le many with the money reserved for
2. GnR
Im 1. For 2 look at the AIQ subs many already crying they dont have any money left for GnR bc of AIQ but have to buy GnR anyway if its awesome which Kaneda testifies. So yes I am victim of this paradoxon but will by far not be the only one. I think GnR will inflict even more damage than RAZA on the AIQ front if its as great as Kaneda says.

Good news is, your bank account can wait to take a hit on any of these games! This is exactly why I'm avoiding wacky limited to the extreme NIB purchases. It's just too expensive and volatile a market at times.

#9481 81 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

0%, but here comes 3 pages of cabinet talk.

I'm sure this has been posted many times before, but it is compelling.

Screenshot_20200910-192837_Drive (resized).jpg
#9492 81 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

They just updated the teaser page[quoted image]

Fucking a. Get this god damn train a rolling..!!!

#9494 81 days ago
Quoted from cjchand:

You missed an interesting part at the bottom soliciting distros to sell RAZA.
Goes contrary to their prior plans of doing all direct sales.
[quoted image]

Side tangent. If they do want outside distro help, does that infer the number of RAZA stock will NOT be super duper limited, as in under 200 or sumthin'?

I hope it's a good bit over 500, so these things are super difficult to get down the road, or are sold out immediately or stupidly overpriced.

I'd be up for a 5K RAZA...maybe, but not a 7K and up one.

#9536 79 days ago

Gauntlet thrown..!

Screenshot_20200912-163607_Chrome (resized).jpg
#9539 79 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

AH - mystery solved. B. D. stands for "Before Deeproot".

I tossed that out there a few weeks ago. Many seem to agree. If that's actually what it is, Robert has hugeass balls. Great for him if he backs it up!!!

#9543 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

BD should be changed to BS in my opinion.
Still no game. That was said 4 years ago. Since then Stern have released 10 titles or maybe even more. Killer games too I may add.
What has Deeproot released? I understand people are willing Deeproot on and I sincerely hope we see a game ship in 2020 and not more broken promises.

I'm pretty sure this is a RAZA release. No doubt.

#9548 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

For their sake I sincerely hope so. The game will have to be great and start shipping straight away I think.

I really want to see that too. Announcement and at least a soft launch. Get on with it..!

#9617 76 days ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

I'm not sure why people feel the need to compare the newer companies to Stern, what we want is alternatives to Stern for more variety and innovation, not more of the same.


e1e-1 (resized).png
#9661 75 days ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

I've met at shows have been in show mode and super friendly, when it gets down to business, pushing production, marketing and market share, I expect they are all pretty tough and know how to play hardball.

That's something people often fail at when assessing people, especially in the saaaaaaales business. Hell, Jack sold games for how many years? I'd imagine close friends and family see different aspects, just like any person.

#9667 75 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

What do you like? What do you dislike? What do you think would be cool to add? JPOP's artwork is really unique and I love it. E

More his art style, art direction, etc. I don't think he's an illustrator by trade. Not sure about his hobbies, other than being a Garth from "Wayne's World" impersonator.

#9742 74 days ago
Quoted from Rezdog:

Just a few forgotten 80s classics:
Fast Times at Ridgemount High
Friday the 13th
The Breakfast Club
The Lost Boys
First Blood
Purple Rain
This is Spinal Tap
Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
The Thing

None of those are forgotten at all. None of those are even "cult" films.

#9937 71 days ago
Quoted from riggy469:

Kaneda just stated that RAZA will come in three trim levels, the lowest will cost less than a Stern Pro

Where did he say that?

Quoted from wrb1977:

Maybe this is failed logic, but if B.d. is “Before deeproot”, then 9.21.20 is still before deeproot. I am only expecting an official announcement tomorrow of their launch itinerary with dates and times. Nothing of real significance will take place until the 22nd or later. Good luck to deeproot!

I'd thought the same thing, but I hope even they aren't that convoluted.

#9941 71 days ago
Quoted from riggy469:

On his FB page.

He must have removed it. I looked minutes after your post.

#9948 71 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What if Kaneda just made most of that up to stir up some things?

Either way, we'll see tomorrow!

I'd like to know ahead of time if there's a stream.

Quoted from wolftownjeff:

A huge thank you to our six special pinball VIPs who traveled to San Antonio to join us yesterday. Lauren, Cary, Colin, Chris, Jeff, Krystle: you are amazing and we are very grateful for everything you did to brighten our day! #timetowalkthewalk #pinballishard
* photo courtesy of Lauren Gray[quoted image]

Any time frame on info tomorrow? Or any live events streaming?

#9953 71 days ago
Quoted from riggy469:

Yeah, he said 5k, 6300-6500 ish, and 9800-ish.

6500 even would be a solid Premium/LE entry level.

And ideally it's not Stern, which for better or worse, we kind of know the style of game they produce routinely. A mix-up in the ring would be most welcome.

#10088 70 days ago

TWIP mentioned an update later today.

"TWIP will have a comprehensive overview and deep dive regarding deeproot Pinball’s launch later today.

We also plan to include an interview with Robert Mueller. Keep any eye out for the post later today!"

#10330 70 days ago

Un. Fucking. Real.

#10337 70 days ago
Quoted from pinlink:

All the ones I recognize from that pic are local. No planes, just a quick car ride.

That's what I was thinking, several from around Texas. Did Jeff fly in?????

#10422 70 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

That is the astonishing part.

Well, this is another excuse on their end, isn't it? To now place their incompetence on the estimation of outsiders rather than themselves.

This is textbook abusive behavior by this guy. You know what they say, "Fool me 6 or 7 times....".

#11010 69 days ago

Really weird panic mode reaction. Shame they didn't just state they're not where they want to be, and let people share all of this, as it looks pretty compelling to me!

#11423 68 days ago

Phew! Just caught up on the last 24 hours of Hype/Hate.

I only jumped back into this hobby seriously 2 years ago, and when presented with the coin door interface (Never really heard it's designation brought up.) I wondered why this archaic piece of equipment was the main interface for diagnositics, settings, etc, and not just a phone.

Again, (Also as a new owner) setting up a game, moving it, removing the glass, playfield movement, all things I felt were either confusing, outdated or inefficient.

So Robert and team have addressed these issues, and possibly improved upon them in ways that may OR may not effect the entire industry for years to come, just like JJP has done, and P3 has in some ways as well.

This is all amazing news!

The not so amazing news, that the next step needs discussed from deeproot IMMEDIATELY, as in literally yesterday, now that the proverbial pincat is out of the bag. Direction, explanations, and an actual REAL timeline needs put in place.

People do want and need innovation, and it seems like they've attempted to innovate on interface, build, connectivity, etc, and in NO WAY whatsoever have redesigned the game of pinball itself, just everything surrounding it. So as even diehards that state over and over again, how much pinball doesn't need to change. Well, deeproot hasn't changed it at all, but merely changed the wrappings it's been confined within for decades. a very, very good thing.

Now onto manufacturing...

#11430 68 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Now onto manufacturing..
As if that’s the easy part Wes
I see the games. Tell me when I’m getting a game in my house after I put an order down? What’s the pricing structure?
It can’t be like JJP where 4 or 5 Stern games come in between
Seems like much of the jibber jabber doesn’t mean anything until we know basic important stuff like that
It’s pinball so it’s exciting times and there are things in there that can move the needle forward hopefully.

Oh, totally! That's where this is a massive failure, despite being...a massive success!

I'd have loved to see you and others like you with game in hand, well game room, months ago, and for that to not have happened this week, or any week just around the corner is a monstrous flop and disappointment.

Side note, what keeps hitting me about this reveal was when initially reading that article yesterday, so many things seemed like "Oh yeah, definitely makes sense. Simple and seems like that could have been implemented ages ago..." would pop into my head time, and time again.

How many folks here own or know heavy Ipad users? I've always heard such a wonderful complement towards Steve Jobs and Apple being, "They make products you never knew you wanted, but you do now." or something to that extent, and for me, so many basic enhancements have been unveiled, and they all seem like possibly elegant solutions for pinball problems we never knew we had or never knew how to adjust.

That to me is innovation!

But yeah, this pesky manufacturing thing, the thing Stern does so amazingly well, is still at the core of deeproot's largest issues to come.

#11437 68 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Because it's simple, time tested, rock solid technology that just plain works. I can navigate a Williams or Stern menu faster than you can do anything on a fancy touchscreen device. Never have to worry if my app is updated. Never have to go upstairs and grab my phone if I left it in the living room. Never have to troubleshoot the bluetooth dongle firmware or whatever the hell will inevitably break my ability to change something I can do in ten seconds with existing hardwired buttons. Don't have to worry about fat-fingering something on a touchscreen.
Ask any operator or longtime collector if they'd trade their coin door buttons for an app.

Outdated, you mean like pinball itself? All of those things you listed have been distilled down to their simplest essence over decades. No frills, just basic, commercial-grade mechanical functionality that even a luddite old-school operator can figure out without software or even a paper manual.

I see all of those as modern ways to introduce not just better functionality for a game, but most of all accessibility.

Baseball was pretty aged, over 50 years old prior to it being televised for the very first time in 1939. Television, then later cable, then online and phone accessibility only helps to provide larger groups of people the ability to enjoy and engage with the sport as a whole. Baseball hasn't really shifted much rules wise, in 130 plus years of it's existence, but the framework around it has, and in doing so has kept it modern, alive, and most importantly, in existence.

#11440 68 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Fu**k the ipads and phones. Pinball should be pinball. That's the last thing I want integrated in to a pin.
Just make better pins. Have them be reliable. Manufactured well. Great support - if the first 3 are taken care of the support should not be a problem for the manufacturer.

Aaaaaaand multiple other companies have been doing just that for the last decade.

What harm comes from a different company doing something...different? None. (Excluding boasting and such.)

I'm happy Stern exists. But they exist to produce, and produce, and produce, and sans competition, their design elements will never shift or progress. JJP helped push them forward. Now hopefully deeproot can put up, and also possibly help push other companies forward as well.

Or we can just keep getting the same stylings of pins every quarter, and wonder why they can often feel so similar to what a Stern game was from 3 years prior.

Options aren't ever bad. Monopolies sure as hell are though!

#11446 68 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Don't see Deeproot doing it Wesman. Have doubts they will. Sure I'd like to see it. But I think they are prone to failure with the time and what we have seen and not seen so far.
Yes multiple companies have done it. Deeproot - nope. Not even close.

I definitely agree.

They've done a tremendous amount of work, and also have a tremendous amount ahead of them.

Crazy fucking company that in one day goes from massive expectations, to massive disappointment, to then just massive confusion.

Ultimately I hope they do right by those affected by Zidware, at the very least.

#11457 68 days ago
Quoted from kermit24:

A platform is only as great as the games that can be played on it. Lets see more of the games and deeproot's ability to get them out the door.

The fact that they haven't released a public statement past the "Oopsy!" the other day, then allow third parties to present years of research and execution rather than themselves is a pretty major failure for me.

So many puzzle pieces put together, oh so many more to go....

#11634 67 days ago

Yeesh. 24 hours away from this thread and...

Endless Pinbar hate: Check!

No official updates on company trajectory or an actual fully realized explanation from deeproo: Also a big ass check.

I hope we get a whiff of a new plan here, one that might materialize sooner rather than later.

Excitement level: Definitely in check!

#11730 66 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Pinside precedent says “the game should have sex with you” jokes don’t start until a price is announced.
If the game DOES have sex with you I hope they iron out the rough clear coat and pointy metal issues before the game gets a full release.

You mean....before the player gets a full release.

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