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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

3 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (1 year ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (1 year ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (1 year ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (1 year ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (1 year ago)


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#3230 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Come on. It's vastly more likely that someone with industry experience knows what they're talking about than someone who doesn't have industry experience. Honestly, would you take someone's advice about clearcoating a playfield if they hadn't done it before? Even if they might be right?

There are no rules in art, regardless of who you work for. Commercial art is controlled by consumer preference, and I trust people outside of the industry more than you (especially the way you're presenting it) as they are a good measure of average aesthetic appeal. If people don't mind the mix of 2d/3d, I say good job Deeproot!

1 week later
#3369 1 year ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

Pinball is a relatively small-niche hobby. I wouldn't even consider a new JPop game from Deeproot unless they made things right with his past customers. I assume there must be others who feel the same. While there likely is little legal repercussions, I assume the negative PR must outweigh the cost of fulfilling those debts. I don't feel JPop is worth that, at this point, but obviously Deeproot disagrees. Either way, I applaud Deeproot for taking on those debts and settling with Applejuice and others.

Most pinheads could care less about jpops previous stupidity and the gambling of other pinheads. If his designs are good, they will sell. There must be something more here. I'm assuming they acquired his designs and patents, and I'm guessing he's working for dirt until things are squared up.

2 weeks later
#3504 1 year ago

I was another lurker really hoping for this company with my wallet ready. Once you start insulting JJP, a company that has taken huge risks and rigorously pursued innovation, I start to walk away.

I think this guy honestly believes (like others) that pinside is just a negative pinball swamp. For the most part, it isn't. It is merely a critical group of people that spend a lot of money on toys. Check out the car forums: same thing. Insulting the people here WILL equate to a loss of sales. I think we all know that supply is growing faster than consumption in the pinball market, so every single sale counts, and a single sale can equate to a lot of word-of-mouth if the product is good.

There is so much choice out there that each of us can easily say, "I won't buy from these guys." My new outlook on DR is that this guy deserves to fail. I'll buy from JJP, that drab company that can't seem to get its act together with Lawlor and friends...

#3509 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

How does one walk away from himself?

I don't understand what your confusion is. I stated I'd walk away from Deeproot and buy from JJP... Pretty straightforward language.

#3521 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I'm not confused.
You should just read what you actually wrote/ I quote.
Edit: *hint* Stop insulting JJP. *hint*

Maybe this is a German/English thing? There's nothing wrong with my post, and your quote does not make sense.

#3543 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

He was being sarcastic, throwing deeproot’s words back at them. His statement was intended as supportive of JJP. He probably should have put quotation marks around the offending phrase.

Correct. The tone is pretty clear, and just look at my collection to see if I love Lawlor. Either way, all good. Love jjp, and now generally dislike deeproot.

#3611 1 year ago

If this small collectors market isn't with pleasing, why do all other major players work so hard to do so? To me, this attitude will come back to haunt them unless their games are leagues ahead of their competition like they say, which I see as hyperbole. If they are even on par with them and collectors have a close choice, this negative image could seriously affect sales. My simple question is why risk it? It's seriously business 101. Ask any business owner on here.

#3615 1 year ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Because the seriousness people throw around in here is pure bullshit on the planetary scale... because on this planet right now, statistically speaking, nobody gives two Hershey squirts about deep root pinball except Pinside. That makes me laugh, har-de-har-har!

Then why bother participating? Pinside is a niche hobby forum not meant to appeal to your aunt Bertha or your uncle Percy. With that context, most of us enjoy taking the hobby seriously, and there is serious cash in this industry. Just ask Gary.

2 weeks later
#3717 1 year ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

I never grammar police; however, it is a tough one for me because, if I misuse or misspell a word, I want it to be pointed out so that I avoid doing it in a context where it may matter. I'm not talking about obvious typos, but incorrect words and usage. I'll be chomping at the bit to see all the flustrated people casting there downvotes.

No need for the comma after "because" because it is functioning as a conjunction before a dependent clause. Also, no comma before "but" as it is not functioning as a coordination conjunction, just a plain old conjunction. These don't matter very much, so you may not care.

#3751 1 year ago
Quoted from FlippinJB:

Just to add to the grammar mix, a comma before a coordinating conjunction is perfectly fine if it aids the readability of the text - especially when the conjunction is coordinating longer independent clauses. It allows the reader to take a 'mental breath'.
I don't know whether to buy a Wonka or wait for deeproot to come out with something. I have a blank space in my line-up, and some cash in my pinball pot (a bit goes in from my wages each month!) Hmm. I just wish they'd say *something* more than they have so far!

Commas are required with coordinating conjunctions, no exceptions, but if you read the quoted sentence, the conjunction is not coordinating. A coordination conjunction (and, but, or, for, nor, yet, so) requires indpenendent clauses on either side; otherwise, the conjunction is just a conjunction and does require a comma. Commas with conjunctions that are not coordinating happen often, and in the case provided, one could be used. I just wouldn't use one, and it's definitely not required.

#3801 1 year ago

Without grammar, there's nothing to do in this thread except rehash old dismay about Deeproot while we wait, and wait, and wait... How about that old logo. Kinda looks like a bum hole. New one looks far too busy. Anyone have an alternate deeproot logo to post?

1 week later
#3886 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

RE: ramps my is theory is since John "proved everyone wrong" when the TOTAN curve ramp worked this means any future ramp idea he has also will work, guaranteed!

To be fair, the totan ramp is the best ramp in all of pinball.

#3996 1 year ago

Racism and sexism should be reported, but that's about it. A good internet fight is great entertainment. I really miss the Todd Tuckey book deal thread. Better than a UFC title fight!

#4037 1 year ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

If Deeproot could just step up the build quality of current machines that would be a great marketing tool to use against the other manufacturers. It would give DP a good push forward on sales IMO and probably make the other manufactures tighten up their quality issues. One can hope.....

JJP has pushed Stern a little in this area. Only problem is that Stern will strip toys etc. if they have to up their game elsewhere. It all depends on how much Gary is skimming off the company. In my eyes, considering what I paid for my IMDNLE and what I received, I'd say a lot. It's going to be pretty hard or near impossible for a new company to be as efficient as Stern though, which means they will not be able to pass a lower profit margin on to the customer. I think Gary is riding this bubbly wave to retirement. I think he's smart enough to remember the lean times and to know that this age we're in is an old-man-toy window that ain't gonna last forever. People are buying sight-unseen toys for 9k+, no matter how much they strip out of them.

#4065 1 year ago

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3 weeks later
#4336 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

There’s always been lots of cash and some very happy pin industry people with regular pay checks. Not sure a few refunds makes any difference with shipping machines.

I think it makes a huge difference. How many other manufacturers could offer such a payment before their first production? To me, this shows they are very far from insolvent, which means we're very likely to see at least one title, possibly more. This inspires confidence in me for sure. I just hope the PR is a new priority. I don't think some companies realize how easy it is to get a bad rep on here and just how badly it can hurt your bottom line. The solution is not rocket science: stay positive and ignore the trolls.

#4350 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

So you're saying there's zero chance that a lawsuit would be brought without some kind of settlement offer like this? In my opinion, they did the math and this was way cheaper than fighting a potential lawsuit. Period.
I want deeproot to succeed and bring interesting pinball to the table. But no points should be awarded for honoring a legal agreement created to cover one's own ass.
I look forward to seeing any kind of update that shows an actual product is being worked on.

If they acquired designs that are attached to debt, someone could sue. The company could just pay to license the designs and you could then sue Jpop for his profits. Or they could easily tweak the designs and have zero liability. We’d have to see if they even used any of his previous desires from zidware to see if there would be a chance for legal action. Doubtful that anyone wants to waste time and money to get their 7k or whatever back Anyway.

I personally see it as goodwill on their part as it would be easier to avoid any previous designs.

#4365 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Robert clearly thinks JPOP is some mastermind that just needs the right environment to produce... so he built that.

I’m glad they did. Help or not, I love Jpops games.

#4390 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I just watched a 10 minute video of magic girl. 10 minutes of just nothing exciting, no multi balls (none), crappy "repetitive" audio sounds like a 70's clown sound of a straw with water in it being blown across and lazer sounds. It's like almost everything on the pf is bash toy.
It's really the first time I've ever really looked at/into this machine. This is kind of a crappy game honestly. I sure as hell hope they're planning on redoing this machine or the value better be ~ that $5000 mark. Seriously I think Cosmic Carnival is better than this. I've always enjoyed JPOP titles but this is a real Cleveland steamer. A good looking Cleveland steamer but a steamer none the less.

Don't you think that the game being incomplete, as in, not even close to done, has a bearing on it being good or bad?

1 week later
#4473 1 year ago

Loved that show.

1 week later
#4614 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Not sure what you're going on about but it was changed some time ago. Here is their current logo.[quoted image]

The original design was much cleaner (better) by logo standards. People on here trashed it so badly that they changed it. Listening to pinside is a sign of weakness. Grow a set, Deeproot!

#4628 1 year ago
Quoted from jorro:

What did you say? Raza has a robot
How original!
[quoted image]
Almost as original as the heron up the ars logo

At least they're trying unlicensed themes.

16
#4667 1 year ago

If each person was allowed one ten and one one, the system would be a little better. Not averaging pro/prem/LE killed any semblance of genuine ratings the list ever had. Such a bad choice.

Really enjoyed wolf's IMDNLE review:

"Game is overrated. Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20. Huge easy ramp in the middle is why noobs like this game." 1/10.

L-O fucking L!

#4672 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Because nobody ever creates fake accounts?
Online reviews shouldn't be taken seriously (any of them). Trolls, confirmation bias, new games getting the novelty bonus, astroturfing, and review bombing play a part. Also some people have very strong feelings about a game.[quoted image]

That doesn't mean Robin and crew shouldn't do their best to try to help alleviate these issues. For example, averaging models helps to calm the excessive ratings of LE owners. To me, this would be common sense design. I Like it or not, the top 100 is the most popular part of pinside, and I felt that before the model
ranking issue, the list was pretty representative of what I consider to be the great, good, average, not so good and garbage machines. Now it has the disease of every new LE in the top 20...

#4677 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

LEs just exaggerate a simple problem that was always there. Most people can’t be objective about something they are heavily vested in. The more money in... the bigger the problem.
Crowd sourced reviews are always going to be junk. Since the reviews are done by those with energy to do it... instead of true random sampling... you don’t get the averaging out of bad reviewers.
Compound this that many reviewers simply don’t know what they are talking about... you get a “popularity contest”... not actual worthy reviews. That’s why new games always surge to the top group of the ratings.
The solution is either vetted raters- or just change it to a simple scale and allow (or solicit users to pump up participation) to acknowledge what they think of a title. Like/dislike/indifferent and list games by their percentages
And “most popular part of pinsidde”? I can’t think of anyone I know that uses it at all... maybe in page views... but how much of that is search engines, etc.

I agree in general but also see the system as somewhat accurate. The old w/b titles at the top are top games imho. I'm not a huge fan of AFM, but I can objectively see why ppl love it. It's like IMDb I guess. It makes sense of you strip out the recent blockbusters.

2 weeks later
16
#4891 1 year ago
1 week later
#4932 1 year ago

Another post clarifying that nothing goes on in this thread. It would be appreciated if someone could clarify my post for me so others could me motivated to add clarity as well.

#5055 1 year ago

I hope they do innovate the hell out of the industry; it's in dire need of it. Of course, the games have to be fun, but I can't wait for a new pf material and other improvements, along with hopefully more competative pricing. I just wish they never posted the previous bullshit on here. I'm still not over it.

4 weeks later
#5118 1 year ago

So they want unlicensed lawyers to provide feedback about a prototype? Sounds risky.

#5157 1 year ago

Yeah, it's only the rich companies that can afford to defend patents. The most ridiculous patent, by far, is Christian Louboutin patenting red soles on women's shoes. He has successfully sued several other designers that use the color red. Crazy shit. shoes (resized).jpg

#5182 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Actually not crazy, they put the red under sole on the map. Ask any woman what high heel has a red sole and they'll tell you Louboutin. So its a brand for sure which is why they win in court. So name a Pinball MFG that is doing that design right now? Nobody. So if Stern copies it they'll be a lawsuit for sure and Stern will lose. Stern doesn't care about this stuff though, at least not to date so nobody will be copying this. On the other hand, Stern Copied JJP when they came out with an LCD's, but I'm sure JJP didn't have a patent and giving attention to Stern for making a smaller display wouldn't make sense regardless as its inferior out the gate.

Previous judges do not agree with you. These corporations just find another court and another judge until one works out for them. I don't give a shit what the public thinks about red soled shoes. He wasn't the first one to do it and should have no right to patent a color. Madness.

2 weeks later
#5600 1 year ago

Overhype via outlandish and offensive claims? YES.

Did they produce a freakin’ awesome looking Jpop machine? YES!

Here are some ifs:

IF the game plays like a classic jpop, and IF the code is good, and IF the qc is good, and IF they price it right, and IF they can distribute in a timely fashion, and IF Stern will not make it right with customers that have PF issues, deeproot could be on its way to dethroning the current penny-pinching, ostrich head-in-the-sand qc modeled Stern. I really hope we can move on to higher quality matched with more affordable pricing.

IF!

-1
#6077 1 year ago

1. People hate Jpop because of his business decisions. Fair. That does not give anyone a licence to claim they know that he "always" needs help with his designs and is just a shit-show for pinball design. Good designers would welcome help. Jpop designed some great classics that are well respected in the community. That is the plain truth.

2. Robert came across as a self-centered asshole when he posted here. I remember clearly, and I still cringe while thinking about it. After many months, I'm willing to chalk it up to overconfidence induced by excitement. When people shit on your unicorn, you might lash out too. I'm willing to move on from this.

3. Yes, the launch is delayed like they all are, and promises were not met. They say they are designing more than one game, and maybe they are delaying to do everything right. They have the money, so why not? They are hopefully going to pump out high-quality machines. I'm willing to wait if that is true.

4. The game is a prototype. Why can't so many of you understand this? The ramp shot isn't being made well because the game is likely playing VERY differently at the show than it did in the design studio. Do you really think they sat there and shot the ball half way up the ramp for a week and said, "That'll do 'er!" ???

5. Finally seeing a guy who could play (most recent vid) shows that this game shoots well, with the exception of under-powered flippers. I do think diverters are smarter design than steepness though. My games are always jacked to max steepness, so if that doesn't work with that ramp, it would be a big problem for me.

6. This game is not supposed to be a Stern. It appears to shoot like Jpops 90s designs, just like DI shoots like a polished older lawlor. If you want combo city, buy a stern. I look forward to some "bump into new mechs" and some stop and go. I consider myself a good player and I still have a blast when playing TOTAN. The design amazes me.

7. See number 4.

#6192 1 year ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Not saying build a Stern at all, not even close, but I am saying if you choose to bad mouth Stern, you better deliver one hell of a game and this game does not deliver enough to warrant Roberts attitude. Three of the latest Stern games all destroy this game, i.e. Deadpool, Jurassic Park, Iron Maiden.

I'd say even Avengers would destroy most prototypes....

#6412 1 year ago

"What a mess"
"It's a prototype"
"I WANT TO MAKE FUN OF IT BEING A PROTOTYPE"
"I hate Robert"
"The flippers are weak"
"You can't read."
"The flippers are weak."
"It's a dumpster fire."
"It's a prototype"
"The plastic mecs are too cheap"
"The font has too thick of a stroke"
"Everyone here hates pinball"
"I hate pinside"
"Me too."

#6677 1 year ago

I read the whole shebang, and that $2 happens to be $2.50 up here!

#6714 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

[quoted image]

I can see not proofreading a post, but a meme?

#6734 1 year ago

I'm excited for what I see. Those shots look great. I was concerned about the centre shots, but they look way better than the other videos showed. At first I thought the ramp was a little bunk, but seeing him nail it dead on changed my mind. He made it with lots of power left over. I consder myself a pretty good player, and I can see that I'd make it often, but not every time. I like the drop offs in TOTAN, so I'm sure I'll like these. If there's more to come on this machine, I'm definitely excited to play it and possibly buy it.

STERN RIPPED ME OFF on my last NIB purchase from them, and it looks like they are not going to make it right. I'm excited to move on and give someone else a try.

1 week later
#6835 12 months ago

JJP is like W/B to me, but adjustable. If they are too soggy, you can up the voltage. I love them, but they take a bit to get used to if you play a Stern right before. Stern's are snappy, and I love them too. Stern games are great for playing combos and trap and shoot. They are awesome to learn to play pinball like the pros. I love most pinball styles. Hell, I'll even play Orbitor 1 and have fun . . . for a while.

As already stated, it's just Stern's shit quality that is the problem on their end.

-3
#6860 11 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

If I was starting a pinball company, my first move would be to do everything I could to hire George Gomez to run it. Then Lyman Sheats as lead coder. As far as designing games fast, that really isn’t the bottleneck. I don’t need a fast designer, I need an innovative designer.

If I was starting a pinball company, my first move would be to do everything I could to not hire George Gomez. I'm the rare person excited to see jpops creations come to fruition. Gomez has a few great games, but more stinkers come to mind. Remember, Transformers and Avengers exist because of him.

#6862 11 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

What you are completely missing here is that George Gomez knows how to run a successful pinball company and Jpop doesn't.
Gomez knows reality while Jpop knows only bullshit and fairytales.
Gomez can steer a pinball company through turbulent times, Jpop can steer a company only into failure, bankruptcy, and tears.

Good thing jpop had been reduced to a designer. I love his designs.

#6902 11 months ago

I'm still deeply rooting for deeproot. I hope RAZA is released soon and that others follow in its path. It a great time for pinball, and I think it will be short-lived. Get in while the gettin's good!

#6920 11 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Man more Italian bottoms here than a gay dating site in Rome.
You guys say you want “innovation” but what you really mean is “gimmicks.”
Gimmicks don’t generally make for good games, especially when you are talking about layouts. That’s why they are gimmicks.

Which horrible gimmicks are you referring to? The Castle in mm, with its gate and draw bridge? The power pf on tz? The genie and lamp from totan? The supercharger on hs2? I'm with you. These games would be so much better if Gary was in charge and pulled then all. Every game could be like bk3. Pintopia!

#6940 11 months ago

"This invitation-only event will feature the long-anticipated launch of the deeproot Pinball company after several years of safeguarded R&D."

I am really gunning for them to release a great game, but they REALLY need a constomer relations officer that knows what the fuck is going on in the world of pinball. They are so damned presumptious that I wouldn't go to that event if I lived next door and they fed me for free. Damn.. How do they screw EVERYTHING up? It's baffling.

3 weeks later
#7223 10 months ago

I'm glad they have stopped talkin' the talk and walkin' the walk instead. Good on Deeproot. Still have some nightmarish memories of Robert that refuse to dissipate and hate their shoddy attempt at manufacturing exclusivity, but I'm still super excited to see the new Jpop games. TOTAN has the best ramp in all of pinball IMHO, so I hope the new ramps are equally cool.

2 weeks later
#7350 10 months ago
Quoted from Mercifull:

I'm sure this has been discussed before but the thread is getting quite large now...
With regards to the Deeproot Launch (now less than 2 months away) surely we must assume at least announcements of more than one machine, if not a full reveal?
If we assume that JPop is leading on RAZA and AIW then surely there are additional machines each by the following designers, Dennis Nordman, Jon Norris and Barry Oursler right? So that's at least five machines in development all at the same time. There is only actual time within the schedule for a playthrough demo of RAZA and even that is only 10minutes. No manufacturer is going to want to reveal the playfield before the official announcement, especially if its a licenced theme but we may need some teasers?
Of course, this isn't just a pinball event. It's also the launch of Deeproot Studios, will we see a surprise feature film announcement or Netflix (other streaming services are available) series? They were quite active last year with sketches and concept art being shared but they've gone very quiet in recent months. They cannot surely be only working on RAZA 2D animation given the talent they've employed.

They are likely going to release a lot of games. Exciting! Their timing isn't very good though. With Stern's crazy production schedule, the market had become pretty saturated. Games better be damned good!

3 weeks later
#7561 9 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

I fully expect to see only a slightly updated version of RAZA...and not much else (besides talk of "lots of amazing games and innovations that aren't being shown yet").

I fully expect to see much more. Exciting!

1 week later
13
#7639 9 months ago

I think we're all going to be pleasantly surprised. Robert is guilty of hyperbole, for sure, but there are a lot of great people working for Deeproot. Jpop, love him or hate him, produced some of the best pinball machines in history, with some help. His designs are some of my favourites. There are many other talented people on the team. They are not working toward failure and know how to produce good pinball machines. To think that all of these experienced industry people are working toward an absolute failure of a long-overdue reveal is ridiculous. You nay-sayers are straight-up wrong, and you'll see at the reveal.

I personally thought Robert's comments were bullshit and think the guy should get the hell out of promotion. Stick to being the money guy and hire people that know what they're doing. The competition is weak as shit: some ego-kids that drink beer and stream themselves playing pinball.

1 week later
#7793 8 months ago
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#7834 8 months ago

Sorry for the derail, but this about Spooky caught my attention much more:

"...we’re really excited to get Ben back, and it has been great planning and working with him again. And I think when people see what he’s done – I think when people see the layout and the coolness that Ben has come up with, it is pretty amazing.”

#7857 8 months ago
Quoted from Brijam:

I personally think it’s a huge mistake not to disclose the refreshments at least 60 days in advance. It’s common practice to thoroughly list all libations. Doesn’t Stern have an entire part of their website dedicated to them? This just feels like a huge mistake.

Stern is now a lifestyle brand; therefore, we know their refreshments will be craft beer that goes with the perfect lumberjack beard and flat brimmed cap, sticker and all.

-50
#7901 8 months ago

"It is unfortunate that the unprecedented COVID-19 (Chinese coronavirus)"

I'm assuming Robert wrote this. Only he would be dumb enough to include racism in the message. Fox News started this BS.

#7920 8 months ago
Quoted from Roostking:

According to the Chinese, its was the US Army!!!!
Soo, whats it like walking about ready to be super offended. You must be a joy to hang with lol!
Too bad about all these cancellations though, real people are going to be affected by a virus that was cooked up in a Chinese lab, to divert attention from HK, that got out of control.. Or did it???

I'm rarely offended by much, really. But the name of the virus is clear: Covid 19. There has been an uprise if violence toward Chinese ppl since the outbreak. Changing the name to something racial does nothing good. And I never said Robert was a racist. I just said, as I have before, he's an idiot when it comes to p.r.

#7940 8 months ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

I don't really care if its licensed or not, too many people see that as being the most important.The 2 games I have by Barry are not licensed and I love them. Thats why I'm excited about this company and the titles. They aren't hiding behind a license to cover up a bad game like you know who.

I'm super excited for unlicensed themes. I was more motivated to buy DI because it was unlicensed. As long as the games are great, I'll do my best to support!

-5
#7954 8 months ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Did the Spanish get there asses kicked in 1918?

You are correct that historically flus have been named by starting location. This has changed for the reasons I've mentioned.

Your using the classic "appeal to tradition" fallacy.

#7967 8 months ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Hey, now theres that Deeproot thread I remember. Back on track[quoted image]

These are really, really strange times. I just upvoted WolfeMaaan.

#8004 8 months ago

They cancelled with the single goal of keeping this thread consistent.

#8019 8 months ago

This is why Gary has cost cut so terribly. He knew the pinball bubble wouldn't last forever. I doubt it's dead, but we're going to be hitting one hell of a slow down.

1 week later
#8068 8 months ago

Deeproot will still pull it off. They will release games that will be great. Unfortunately, sales will be slower than expected, but most product-based businesses are going to experience that. I wish them the best during this tough time and very unfortunate bad luck for them. I wish they would at least release RAZA via stream. I think they'd be surprized at how many pinheads would still buy.

#8085 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because of octo-manufacturing?
or their non-existent manufacturing history?
I'm wondering why you think they are any better suited than a guy with a paper, pencil, and an empty building.

But why is the assumption that it's the opposite any better? How do you know they can't manufacture anything? Does anyone have concrete evidence as to where they are at financially and with manufacturing?

#8169 8 months ago

Maybe they left or got laid off because of some pandemic or something.

1 week later
#8359 7 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You already on the puff Odin?

Off The Puff (resized).png

1 week later
#8428 7 months ago

Good news is Deeproot has been paying out for a long time. They are used to this problem. A downsize for the virus will cut some cost and they'll be back when it's done. Raza will be better than expected, and the other games will kick ass.

War Deeproot!
War Jpop designs!

#8432 7 months ago
Quoted from Frax:

Well, for one thing, it would shut people like me up, that just want to see if they're even PLANNING anything that I'd want to throw money down on... And they've had like...um...three years...? This isn't a coronavirus issue. It's a poor business management issue. They don't have anything to show, that's why there was no announcement. Almost guaranteed that the TPF announcement was ONLY going to cover RAZA and dick-all-else, and they've not even tried to make it seem otherwise.
I'm still looking forward to playing Hot Wheels, as I know at least one of my local places already had purchased one. If excitement has died down...it's because nobody's been able to play the damn thing, which has very little to do with AP's business decisions. That's a pretty big difference to me. I expect that AP, if they walk out the other side of this, will have games to ship and projects in development. Can't really say the same for DR.

You have no idea what they were going to reveal, and the problem with the reveal was 100% the virus.

#8444 7 months ago

Ask how sales on Hot Wheels are going. I would imagine they are dismal at best. Revealing a pin right now online is dumb idea for any company. To put this in the "deeproot is failing" pile just isn't fair.

#8475 7 months ago

A good chunk of companies are going to receive support from governments bases on government imposed shutdowns. These guys will get support, and the USD petro/China-backed currency can take it. 2008 taught us that. JJP will be fine. Deeproot can maybe claim some startup debt scenario. Hell, they're giving corps that had record profits cash. Uncle Sam will bring that ol' socialism demon into the mix.

Or... Deeproot dies and Jack gives us another family friendly pinball machine that we don't want. There... I said it. I'm not a Jack nut-hugger.

Jeez. I've been driking.

2 months later
#8802 4 months ago

I still have hope. They were just about to launch and the worst pandemic in over 100 years happened. Strange you guys can't give them any sort of understanding, even when the world shuts down.

#8831 4 months ago

Lol, Alice is pre-pubescent...

#8835 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yeah I don’t think that rack is big enough. Stop kowtowing to political correctness!!!!

cb82f44732c8d9df8c048f67e739147b_400x400 (resized).jpeg
2 weeks later
#8924 3 months ago

Games are coming. They will be wonderful.

#9034 3 months ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

They fail to meet any deadline they have set. What makes this time so different?

They had a reveal planned with airline tickets, location bookings etc, but a worldwide pandemic hit. It was so bad that the entire world (excluding your neighborhood?) shut down. Corpses were stored in meat trucks, things were so bad. But the most shocking thing about this worldwide pandemic was that Deeproot had the audacity to use the event to stall their reveal. What jerks!

1 week later
#9096 3 months ago

I'm excited. New jjp coming soon and Deeproot. I'm stoked for any alternative to the newest Stern.

Great days for pinball!

#9225 3 months ago

I love jpops designs and can't wait to see more. There are many pinheads like me that are happy to see more of his games come to fruition.

He'll have the help and expertise he needs to bring the magic to life, and debts are settled via Deeproot. It's a new era.

Couch critics be haters, and you'll be bitching no matter how good the games are.

The frog in my belly says " ribbit, games will be awesome!"

#9234 89 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Just my view. Not interested in buying games by Stern till they place more into build quality, better lcd, more novel use of the playfield and mechs, etc. I feel like Ripley's felt more like a pin from the B/W's 90's era than anything they've done since, maybe excluding Ghostbusters.
It's great that pinball has survived thanks to them existing solo, but their brand of pinball has never really interested me to the point of owning.
Hopefully Deeproot pushes much farther in the ways I feel Stern has languished. If they don't, more cash in my pocket.

I generally agree. Uncle Gary has cost cut the company too far for my tastes. IMDNLE will be my last Stern. Value just isn't there for me anymore. Just think about SPP or LOTR. They would be ultra-super-duper-pooper-scooper LEs if they were made today. That era is gone for good, and it ain't a good thing. I really hope Deeproot knocks out of of the park so we get some healthy competition.

#9261 89 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That’s like saying I’d trade for Michael Jordan for a pizza and bag of chips
You won’t be jumping on anything pro related at that price until you are MUCH older Wes
Get into the real world of today

The real world of today is crazy awesome designs and bullshit quality from Stern. It's the sad truth. I would have been all over Kieth's newest LE and his last had my IMDNLE not been built like it was made in China. They may as well outsource. "Made in the USA" means nothing for Stern. Who knows, the Chinese might even do better....

#9265 88 days ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

I can’t understand people who shit on Stern’s build quality. My Iron Maiden has made me $18,000 dollars on location. It’s had over 20k plays. Have I replaced coil stops? Sure. Have I done much else besides cleaning it. Nope. Y’all are a bunch of babies too scared to pull the glass.

Love the logic: mine has no issues, so all machines have no issues, and the owners know nothing about pinball repair.

#9272 88 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

Over/under on RAZA price versus avengers premium?

Interesting to think about that... I think they will price aggressive. Under is my vote.

#9279 87 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

Ooooh, you mean those "accessories" that most likely cost up to $1,000 EXTRA that should be INCLUDED with the LE's?
I've no blooming idea how Stern produces barely any differences between LE and Premium models, yet that numbered plaque drives people batty!
I feel the same way. I really feel like Elwin mixes fun and challenging shots, and the code on his two existing games have been so much fun, but for me location play always feel the best choice.

Agree. Sterns are better played on location. Value for dollar is in the Trainspotting toilet.

#9313 87 days ago

Ballsy claims yet again. Hope they are true!

#9354 86 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Most people that complain about dimples do not buy new games..! Same as most people that buy games care very much about licence and themes. Hopefully Deeproot do not hammer themselves into the ground!

Interesting that you speak for most people. I buy new games and stopped buying Sterns because of quality. I care deeply about licenses and themes. I'm excited for the hammer test, the logo and jpop. I'm their target audience and I have cash to burn.

#9382 85 days ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

Ill take living up here over south Florida any day of the week, thanks. You do know 99 percent of those “Florida Man” stories originate down there.

#9501 80 days ago

Omg. I'm super excited. Might have to make some room!

#9523 80 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That might be a bit early.
It'll be different. Some may like that, some don't but I'm excited that we'll get something else then the "same old, same old".
(Not saying "same old" is bad. Raza will never shoot as cool as AVIQ; but you know a Stern when you see a Stern. Looking forward to a bit of fresh air.)

I don't see it this way. I love Jpops games, and the proto looked good to me. TOTAN's modes are kinda lame, but the playfield design makes up for it tenfold. This game will have great design, great art, quality and some new innovation. I also see the software being way better than jpops 90s games. I'd rather be in on this than another stupid Avengers game. I love Keith's design's, but I'm looking for something new. The game will be better than the proto. Levi will still find something to bitch about, but he'd bitch about anything they put out at this point.

I do have an issue to share though. I tried to email them using the distro email to inquire about purchase, and this is what bounced back:

deeprootemail (resized).jpg

Not so encouraging.

#9555 79 days ago

They have already had a release, but it was destroyed by Covid. They showed a prototype and had a reveal ready to go. But keep posting the same old, same old: Robert is full of shit, all promises, no action etc etc etc blah, blah.

They are revealing the final game after Covid recovery. Good for them!

#9562 78 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

Ps : Robert and Jpop destroyed their reveal all by themselves, this time that poor virus had nothing to do with it

Huh?

1 week later
#10413 70 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

man people just don't want to give up on this

Well, I have to throw in the towel. I have been postive for deeproot for quite some time, but this... this is just... There isn't a word for it. Maybe the Germans can help me out here: is there a Schadenfreude-type-word for this situation?

I have now lost all faith.

#10437 70 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I feel like the music from the littlest hobo should be playing right now.

"maybe tomorrow . . . "

#10794 70 days ago

If Robert's giant name remains on the backbox, I'm 100% out no matter what. I mean, I'm 96% out as it stands, but if Deeproot wants that four percent chance, they need to present a game that doesn't remind me of an inflated ego every time I walk up to it.

#11734 65 days ago

Who needs a backbox these days. Just the screen would be fine. Easier to transport. Put the saved money into mechs and quality.

#11757 65 days ago

Agree that a backbox serves a purpose in arcades, but surely there is an "innovative" way to make it less cumbersome...

#12092 60 days ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Trying to text with one of those flip phones is as archaic as navigating menus with those awesome buttons on the inside of the coin door. The ridiculousness of those buttons will be realized once the Pinbar becomes standard.

I agree with most of what you're saying except the service buttons. How often do we need to go into the service zone? I've never thought, "Man, these buttons inside the coin door are sure a pain in the ass. They remind me of a flip phone." Actually, it is the opposite. They are pretty convenient.

Raza looks awesome to me except I can't get my head around the pinbar. Obviously we need to see it, but I just can't see this being very useful and I can't see it handling a spilled beer. Even if it does, will it still be functional when dirty? Can it handle abuse? What if some asshole decides to punch it while on route?

#12305 58 days ago

Now motorcycles.., I had a 1982 Yamaha 650 Maxim 4 cylinder. A man's machine if there ever was one.

#12549 56 days ago

I'm out on GnR, so I'm still interested in seeing Raza.. Especially the price. If they can do what JJP cannot seem to: create a better machine and match stern's pricing, I'm likely in. I'm excited for Jpop's designs. I can't believe that he's completely incompetent as his games have a similar feel.

If old testament has the burning of witches, fuck, I'm IN!!!

"She turned me into a newt!"

#12553 56 days ago
Quoted from djd9617:

Same here. Not being a huge GnR fan, RAZA actually does seem more appealing to me. However I honestly would probably only buy one second hand. Ya know, let the first owner work out the bugs/kinks first. I'm also hesitant about DR's note about putting ads in the machine. I don't want targeted ads, microtransactions, the ilk of youtube's ad videos before playing a game, etc. And their claimed "always connected" feature gives me the creeps.

Oh, if there is a single ad in the machine, the company should and will fail. I will tell every human I can that the company is garbage and I'll be telling the truth.

Where is this note you're referring to? I can drain this thread if it's true. Oh, the time I have wasted!

#12578 55 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

After yesterdays reveal, this is very puzzling to me.
I wouldn´t contemplating going raza over gnr, even if i were deaf.
The games are seas and centuries apart.

But that's the thing, we haven't seen final gameplay or design for Raza, so you nor anyone else can be sure. Pinsiders, like all humans, have short memories. If the game rocks, there will be a lineup to buy.

GnR has not a single cool toy aside from maybe the Gibson Headstock. Watching the revised ramp on the Deeproot video made me more excited than the crazy lightshow and spinner disc on GnR. I'm all about gameplay, and I like the gameplay of Jpop's games. I just do. I love his ramps with strange, sometimes secret, exits etc. They are fresh air to most other designs. Even if he needs help, they are cool and they work!

#12616 53 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

Iv lost all my excitement with these count downs, they mean nothing these days.

Oh C'mon, you have to love that Nadine gets to do countdown after countdown. There should be a pinside badge of honour for such a role.

"Nadine? Oh, you mean the countdown pinsider." LOL

#12618 53 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Nothing has happened yet other than a breach of contract on DRs part
I sent an email asking for setting up my official factory tour per the Goodwill Agreement and Bob responded that I was “escalating it to a legal matter and to never contact him, his company or employees ever again”. Lol
And then I called his attorney the next day and explained how things were gonna go
Thin skinned Bob as usual overreacted
Now we will see what happens re the breach of contract claim
It’s such a pitiful situation I’m currently waiting to see how they remedy the breach
I just received my AIQLE and ordered the GNR CE so I’m in the don’t care camp right now
An NDA? What a joke that is

Did Robert really respond this way?? Is there some sort of context for him to behave this way?

#12635 53 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Have the email to prove it.
They thought I was being “snippy”
Well I really just wanted to get a response re the clause in the contract that allows us to go tour the facility and play the game
I was denied earlier in the year. Have those emails as well
As for context I’ve been nothing but supportive in my communication with them
The lawyer def heard what I had to say.
Bob took it the wrong way but I don’t really care.
I told the lawyer I might have a big pinball party at my house and invite whatever employees I felt like
Look I want them to succeed but it’s harder to root for them they act like that
If you want to make threats I’ll hit back 10x harder

That's crazy. Sucks as this company could have been good. When I hear shit like this, I want them to fail.

#12716 50 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

Sure! Ben Heck says it, you all listen.
When I say it I’m not Ben Heck.

Heck, you're not even a Ben!

#12799 45 days ago

So there was a countdown to a livestream of a wall? This is getting so pathetic, it's... Awesome! When does the next countdown start?

#12843 42 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yes, they fired the first shot in the stupidest pinball war in history.
If you are a Martian watching drooling idiots on earth hammer perfectly good pinball playfields what are you possibly thinking about humanity?

I like the war. I hate shit playfields. If said war changes said shit playfields into not shit playfields, humans will overcome global warming.

#12930 39 days ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I know everyone in pinball hates the entire concept of DLC, but if done right, it could be really cool. Adding extra modes and such would be BS (the way Stern is handling recent toppers). WAY too slippery of a slope since it currently takes every manufacturer years to "finish" the code. When is the code "final" and when do you start charging for extra stuff that people feel should have been in from the beginning. This would be a shitshow.
However, if you could download entirely alternate rulesets as DLC, that would be awesome. Like in AIQ, you're fighting to keep Thanos from getting the stones. What if next year Stern came out with a DLC that changed all the rules and modes where now you play AS Thanos (and there was a setting to switch back and forth between games)? It's obvious this was not part of the original code, but would be a really cool addition that I would pay for.
For whatever people thing about Multimorphic (I love them) one of the cool things about their setup is you can buy software-only games that repurpose existing playfields in completely different ways. If the regular manufacturers instituted DLC in this way I'd be 100% for it.
Is that what I think deeproot means by costs associated with future modes? I highly doubt it. Probably more along the lines of jpop's Magic Girl is broken as shit, but you can pay to add the features that should have been there from the start.

wrong (resized).jpg
#12939 38 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

I pitched this to Spooky for TV license games. You'd sell DLC for modes based on seasons that aired after pin was released.
The gimmick was it'd be tied to toys. Some blank spots on PF with a connector, you buy the Toy + DLC for like $300 and plug it in. Toy has a crypto unlock for the content because guess what you've already downloaded it haha! Basically a toy as software dongle.
Charlie HATED the idea. But this is pinball. Logic doesn't apply. Stern could charge $1k for this gimmick with Walking Dead: The Complete Saga and people would break their wrists whipping out the wallet.

I would NEVER buy a game with DLC incorporated, even if it was Keith Elwin working for JJP. Just like I won't buy a Stern game with a mono target, even if Keith designed it. There's nothing broken about buying a complete game when you put the cash down. We tolerate code updates, but Stern pushed the limit on that one... If that's the way the industry goes, I'll enjoy everything made up to that point. Thank god there are enough games for a lifetime.

#12941 38 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Never say never bro!
Lots of people here said they’d never pay $10 k for a game either, and they are lining up to buy em as a consolation prize cause they got “burned” out of
The $13k version!

True. Just speaking for myself. I wanted jp2 sooo bad, but it had a mono target. I had self control and voted with my wallet. I'll do the same for DLC.

Your point about price might be apples to oranges as well. I paid 12.5k(canadian pesos) for DILE, but I would never have paid 10k if it had DLC. I'd rather pay more money for a complete game than less money and have to worry about purchasing more shit.

#12946 38 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

At first I was like, "no it doesn't," but I guess you mean the raptor gate? Lol, what a hill to die on. Glad I didn't deprive myself of owning & playing maybe the greatest pin of all time because a standup target is two targets wide. Actually looks better mono, gives the impression of like, an actual gate. "World under glass" as the zealots say.
You could always get a pro and drink yourself to sleep every night to forget you're missing the gate.

Our I could just be happy to disagree with you

2 weeks later
#13117 21 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Thunder and Wamoc are right. "Ponzi scheme" is a specific type of scam, you can't just apply that label to everything.
I'd go with "Pig in a Poke". It dates back to medieval times, the scammer would say "inside this bag (poke) is a delicious young pig!" The victim buys it to discover it's a worthless stray cat ("cat is out of the bag" = scam exposed)
"This game is REAL!" says John to AP, as he pulls the curtain off his Houdini diorama. They ooo and ahhh, it's so pretty it must be real!
Joe Balcer rolls up "Ehhh, guys, I hate to tell you this, but, yeah that game's just a stray cat!"
(wash rinse repeat with RAZA and DR)

joe (resized).png
1 week later
#13315 9 days ago

Multiball looks pretty cool. Ramp looks great. Love the animations. Music is good. The moving targets look fun. I have no idea why it has a cyclone ferris wheel. That was cool in 1981, but it's weak as shit by today's standards.

-1
#13364 8 days ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Two gameplay concerns:
-It looks like the ramp isn't makable from the right flipper due to the geometry. Did anyone see a successful ramp shot from the right flipper?
-It looks to be a very defensive game with a couple of close brick shots (such as the rubber on right side of the ramp.

Very big concern. First thing I look for are backhands. If they're not there, the game is considered cursed and unplayable. Someone burn that game before the pope realizes that there is no backhand for the ramp. Jpop's done it again, that rascal!

#13365 8 days ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

You know though that a lot of people are going to love those nods to those games, which are still all pretty popular and we love nostalgia in pinball. We love when a Williams cow appears in games, we love a new Black Knight with callbacks to the games before it, we love revamped versions of MM, AFM and MB, we are always clamoring for mods and updates to old games or new games in a series. I personally dig that stuff, I dunno about the rest of you.

Nods to the past are great, but Cyclone's ferris wheel became boring after 10 times back in the 80s. They could have at least recycled something fun...

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yes lots of times.

Yeah, the ramp went from a turd to a pretty strong point. It diverts nicely, and the bail is pretty nice too. I didn't watch a ton, so maybe there are even more exits, Jpop style? The game looks way better than what I expected, and that pic of the lit up wrap-around is stunning. The movie credits on the tranz are cringy. I also know I'll hate that damned ferris wheel - last comment about it. I promise

#13396 8 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I'll add one more comment about redundancy. There's clearly a "PLAY" button on the pinbar to shoot the ball (because there's an auto-launcher), yet there's a shooter rod (which is typically kept for skill shots) but there doesn't seem to BE a skillshot. The ball loops over and dumps right into the playfield, so what's the point of having a shooter rod? They were so adamant about removing the start button, why not keep it clean and also not have a shooter rod.

Need a deep dive to answer that question.

#13482 8 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Interesting tidbits from what appears to have been deeproot's staging website:
Terms of Use (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YnlaO68zaIsJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/legal)
rootAccessTM Purchases (“Subscription Plan” on or after January 1, 2021)
Our subscription program rootAccessTM offers limited and exclusive content and access to deeproot insider information and downloadable content (“DLC”). The subscription price will be $49.99 if paid monthly, or $549 if paid annually in advance, with a one (1) year minimum subscription period. We plan for rootAccessTM to start in the first quarter of 2021. More information and details will be forthcoming around these benefits for an active membership:
Free Enhanced Support
$100 Flat fee US mainland shipping on all pinball purchases
Buy 5 games, get $2,500 in Store Credit
Exclusive deeproot Swag annually
Advance ordering of new game titles
Skip-the-line priority shipments
DLC and Updates released during active membership
Machines (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GsaEmPvAp6oJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/shop/machines)
Shipping Priority
US customers Xtra™ Full Payment / Est. Oct-Nov 2020
US customers Xtra™ Deposit Only / Est. Nov 2020
International customers Xtra™ Full Payment / Est. Nov 2020
US customers Xe, Ae Full Payment / Est. Nov 2020-Dec 2020
US customers Xe, Ae Deposit Only / Est. Dec 2020-Jan 2021
Rest of International customers / Est. Dec 2020- Jan 2021
Contact (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n0PVJzuUXIsJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/contact/media)
Licensing
Germaine @ Playlife Co. (https://www.playlifeco.com/about)
Passion (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kAO3lyN5kvwJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/passion)
"The paramount reason I came onboard deeproot Pinball was to help build a world-class game company, pushing the envelope in styling, game art and design, while innovating the underlying technology that makes play fun for everyone.
- John Popadiuk
Story (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P_AueyoIvvgJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/about/story)
Why Pinball?
I was never into pinball growing up.
****
Pinball is complex, but not hard.
*****
After having our launch day dashed in March of 2019 (our fault) and March of 2020 (pandemic), we finally launched on September 21, 2020 with a reality-style factory tour production with some amazing pinball personalities.
****
However, we couldn’t get very far when the only standard was ‘What would Robert want’? In time, we had to create much more realistic and measurable standards that refined and focused our sights on the final deliverables. Some of these include that our machine should be designed for a 100lb user that weighed a fraction of the pinball machine, who couldn’t ‘operate a remote’, and had little to no knowledge of pinball.
****
For our electrical system, we chose to go a solderless route (even though more expensive) to simplify assembly and consumer maintenance
Distributors (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mdb-z_85yOUJ:https://drpb.turnerlogic.com/contact/distributor)
Prior to December 1, 2020, deeproot’s policy for U.S. distributors is as follows. A distributor may provide one of its customers with a specially formatted URL or code that the customer must use to purchase a RAZA pinball machine in our online shop. No special favors or rights will accompany these sales. We prefer that games be shipped directly to the customer and not the distributor. The US distributor will be compensated with a commission on the sale, to be paid to distributor according to company policies, no later than five days following full payment by customer.
*****
After December 1, 2020, a U.S. distributor (i.e. Domestic) meeting the below criteria, approved by deeproot Pinball, and who executes a distribution agreement, may assist a customer in the sale or limited service of a deeproot purchase. Domestic distribution rights of our products require the following four criteria to qualify:
A registered legal entity, full time staff, with a defined geographical territory
Prior pinball sales experience
History of marketing, along with a marketing budget
A minimum commitment of 50 sales per contract year

There's probably a few dumb assess on here that still like to burn money, but if they're really doing this, ouch. Way to kill any chance of success.... I really wanted to buy this game to support them, even after Robert's bs and the shitty Ferris wheel, but if they go this route, not a chance.

#13586 7 days ago

DLC won't work with the pin crowd. Just watch. Look at the themes: these are old guys with cash that have learned to save and not sign up for shit that bleeds money from their account. The rich guys will buy anything, but it's the more common buyer that keeps these companies going. Not all companies will do it, and buyers will flock to those companies.

#13624 7 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Exactly. And that is the #1 criteria i look for when investing in a company, "recurring revenue streams" with a growing ecosystem.
That's what makes Tesla another excellent 10 yr investment, even from here, it's NOT the widget cars they are selling.
And pinball is going end up on this same track, it's inevitable. Don't shoot the messenger here. Not saying anyone has to like it.
Just look at these $1,000 toppers that people gobble up like hotcakes and the huge amounts of money that people spend to mod their pins.
Yep, it's coming.......

I think it will be dead opposite. Some, like deeproot, maybe jjp, will try it and find out that it's only the topper guys that will pay. Stern, who loves cost cutting more than anything else, will be laughing to the bank. They will keep siimple, low BOM games with awesome designs, great code and cheap components on the production line. Why worry about all the digital infrastructure you have to create to go the DLC route? These are machines meant for routing, collecting and trading. A digital ecosystem does not match up well with the product. No one wants it, and I do think pinheads will reject it. The price point for pins is different than video games or video game systems. Plus there are thousands of used machines to keep most happy for a lifetime.

#13655 6 days ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

I'd give 5 upvotes on this post if I could. Read the whole post again.

Get outa here, the whole thing?

-1
#13747 5 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

The thing that's really gonna kill deeproot is lack of licensed titles. Goonies alone isn't going to carry the weight of 5 other games nobody wants.
They're clearly obsessed with the long-gone era of 90s B/W (again because John is the secret boss) but forget crucial things like how it was the early 90s licensed themes that sold huge while the original themes later on did far less business.
They're looking at it through the lense of history "after 20 years it was TOM, TOTAN, CV, MM, AFM, MB everyone loved best" but they're a company in the PRESENT. They can't wait 20 years for Food Truck to become a cult classic they need something they can sell NOW.

I think unlicensed themes could do very well, but they aren't done very well these days. I actually prefer them.

DI is mom jeans, but ppl are coming around to it. Bk3 is barren. Octoberfest has design issues as does Houdini. Raza has early SS mechs.

If they load the damned thing and made it cool, it could sell. But maybe you're right. Maybe it's too tough to pull it all together.

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