Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider tomass.
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Seems like this last batch of releases has made used game pricing relax a bit. If Deeproot comes online used games might come into a realistic range again. For that reason alone I look forward to what they bring and hope they are successful. I am not a NIB purchaser for financial reasons but even used games are a stretch these days.
I put on many coats for a restore, until I get a "sheet of glass" look. After thousands of plays, I do not get dimpling or pooling. I use a 2 part urethane 4.2 VOC Euro Class, which is what the guy at my paint store recommended when I told him what I was doing. Very happy with the results I have.
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I seen Deeproot had several new posts, and I was hell yeah, must be some new news. Then I click and read all about dimples.
LOL the deeproot thread is the new dimple tread!
Good point. Went back to delete my O/T post.
Quoted from kvan99:I just want to chime in and ask where the f@ck where you guys hiding when I was fighting this dimple battle in the other threads? Well better late than never...pfft
I made a couple posts but got hammered. Pinside crowd seems to think that you were born the day you joined pinside and having 1y next to your name means you are stupid so it wasn't worth my time.
Guy on the last TWIP podcast who is an expert in that field said absolutely dimples can be avoided if the proper clear was used. Said industial uses produce much greater forces than any pinball machine can produce without a failure in the top coat.
I don't get into back and forth arguments especially on a forum where anyone can say they know something, but my own eyes tell me all I need to know about dimpling. On my own restores as well, where I lay down CC thick enough to fill nicks and inserts and sanded flat. Then thousands of plays later I am still happy with the finish. Are there ANY dimples? Well none that I can see or feel. Can you get a microscope out and see some? No clue as I don't care if I can't see them. Say whatever you want, but like I say, one counter point is enough and anything beyond that is like arguing with the wall.
Quoted from littlecammi:And November 3rd thru 7th does equate to 5 days
Better check your math
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:don't think so. that is 5 days
I honestly thought you said does not equate. Posted after a glass of wine. First one in a year I might add.
Quoted from Yoko2una:[quoted image]
Lol. Its what happens when a non drinker, drinks while watching the Steelers barely beat the Dolphins.
Quoted from o-din:Is that still in play?
Definately not. Unless red F'n soles is somehow related to DR.
I think the large lcd's look out of place on new games. I like the look of this screen more than those. Some of the best pins have a dmd for cryin out loud. Don't understand why so many people seem hung up on the screen. Look's like it's proportions suit a pinball machine more than what other's are currently offering.
Quoted from bigd1979:Pretty sure new production pins are fine now.
That's a problem if you ask me. No is sure really. No one actually addressed the issue and said it was or was not resolved. Just silence while still sending out games.
Quoted from hank527:Hoping the non jpop games are good. This one is a fail. A big fail.
Did you grab any video when you were playing it?
Quoted from Frax:what have they done so far? Nothing.
Nothing except paying back people who they owed nothing to, legally. The fact that they paid off debts made by Zidware is enough to have me rooting for them.
Why is the same group of about 5 people who shit on every thread on pinside.
Quoted from Rondogg:What about their planned title about the Bible? There are like 300,000 churches in the United States and none of them have a single Pinball machine in any of them. Massive untapped market! /s
Not true. I put a High Speed in my church for the youth group and the kids love it.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Not just looking forward to the reveals, but actually wanting to support the company by purchasing one game this year, which is all I am able to afford to buy NIB every 2-3 years. I am not just going to jump and purchase the first title out the game, unless it really appeals to me in all aspects. More games they reveal, more chances for Deeproot to get my money over the other companies.
I almost sent in my AIW deposit to JPOP years ago before things started to flop. It was a close call. I was just waiting to see the potential playfield layout and to my knowledge, that did not happen at that time.
Keep the faith, just as I am. JJP took 3 years to get WOZ out and I never expected Deeproot would had been able to do any better starting a company from scratch.
I am also hoping they pull off something great. I was hoping Stranger Things would have been my first NIB, but it was just another Stern, which is not my cup of tea. I am at least gonna wait to see what comes out of Deeproot at this point.
Quoted from Richthofen:Just another Stern, that is physically built and exists in the world, and you can buy it. Unlike Deeproot games.
I am not telling anyone to like or not like a Stern. I just don't care for them. Thunderbirds exist and can be bought, but it doesn't mean I want one. I do enjoy how people get bent about a harmless comment that is simply my opinion. I didn't even say anything negative about them. Just that its not for me.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Plenty. Whose games are you most interested in.. Barry Oursler, Dennis Nordman, JPOP?
Dennis has 2 unlicensed titles. I hadn't heard much about Barry's games whether any of them would be licensed. JPOP has MG, RAZA, AIW in process as well as 2 others that Robert mentioned one of these is licensed.
I am personally excited to see what Barry O. has been working on. Love his classic titles.
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:I can’t understand people who shit on Stern’s build quality. My Iron Maiden has made me $18,000 dollars on location. It’s had over 20k plays. Have I replaced coil stops? Sure. Have I done much else besides cleaning it. Nope. Y’all are a bunch of babies too scared to pull the glass.
Most complaining I see is due to the cost cutting and price increase. Most of their games just look empty compared to the games we got 30 years ago. I have to admit however, the new avengers premium looks like people are getting what they have been asking for, with another price increase.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:So the Deep Root thread is just another Stern thread now.
Stern IS pinball.
Forgive me, I forgot you were the deeproot thread hall monitor. I will clear all future posts with you going forward. 
Quoted from pinlink:I also see that Levi is back to saying that the ramp was impossible to hit. Simply not true.
I will re-post this from 9 months ago. As I have mentioned in this thread many times but seems to be ignored, I spoke with the staff while I was playing the game more than once, and they mentioned the flipper strength was not set to full power due to it being a prototype with many 3d printed parts. And we were still able to make the ramp shot!!
[quoted image]
Why do even give a shit what he says? He is a constant whining noise. I can't imagine he is as miserable in daily life as he is on here. I think some people just need a place to bitch and this is his place.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If I had a podcast would you take my opinions more seriously? That's really all it seems to take around here. If only I could figure out how to hook this tape recorder to the internet.
Well I have an hour commute each way, everyday, so I would at least give you a listen.
As far as the tape recorder; Just plug it in. It's the plug in the back.
Quoted from okgrak:Second DP game confirmed with an aptly titled name. The Never Ending Story.
So that is after the Big Lebowski? Wrong thread though.
Quoted from Clytor:Anyone see this? Sorry if it’s already been posted.
Where is that posted?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:People need to see the jagged lock down bar of pain!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:They are being secretly passed around by the pinball elite.
Let's just say the innovative new cabinet looks like a Delorean crossed with an upscale late 1990s Freezer. It would be right at home in an early 1990s Sharper Image catalogue.
The lockdown bar is especially ridiculous with hard, 90 degree angles that will bruise your palms (think Stellar Wars) and is so massive and thick it appears short players will have trouble seeing the flippers. Turning the lockdown bar into what appears to be a touch screen appears to be another stroke of design genius. If you liked the action button, you'll love that!
Anyway it's definitely a game changer. Its about time someone stuck an extra set of speakers at crotch level.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I cannot believe they went into production model with that lockdown bar.
Haven't they ever played Stellar Wars? Those hard lockdown bar angles will bruise and crush your palms with every slap save.
And looks like kids won't be able to see the flippers. Maybe a fold out step stool is another innovation.
And yes it appears to be a touch screen, as I don't see a start button anywhere.
There you go folks. Pinball innovation.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think your hand picked group of pinbaliterati grasping their hands in pain after playing two balls probably sent a message to them that yet another reboot is in order.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I just can't believe it took a room full of pinball celebrities for them to realize their lockdown bar of the future renders the game unplayable.
Makes you wonder how much of their experienced pinball staff had anything to do with the design.
Google the Atari 5200 controller for reference.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:OK now that the pointing and laughing is starting to subside lets get into pointless tech speculation:
I guess that lockdown bar/rails/glass come up in one piece like on Fireball '72? Or is that hulking monstrosity of a lockdown bar/touch screen separate?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It still looks better than thunderbirds. Just wear oven mitts when you play it and the palm bruising won't be too bad.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The podcasters are just dead weight who were there to get drunk and provide free marketing, but I think having actual players there who could point out the basic glaring flaws of having a palm torturing lockdown bar that also blocks the view of the flippers may cause some issues in the marketplace.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Is palm-bruising the new dimpling?
I hope so. So sick of dimpling.Yes, I get a serious 90s Sharper Image catalogue vibe out of it. Also reminds me of a stainless steel kitchen appliance.
Can you tell us again about that lockdown bar? Seriously, how soft are your hands anyway?
Quoted from fnosm:I gotta say:
more pinball > less pinball
more ideas > less ideas
untried ideas that succeed = 0
Just like JJP 10 years ago (give or take) I am stoked to see a company that is trying out new ideas.
This company is aiming for the stars not just trying to copy every other company in the business.
Without companies like P3 Multimorphic and Deeproot we would still be playing the same old tech.
Who knows which will succeed and which will fall by the wayside?
There is a ton of stuff here for us to guess and BS about. How awesome is that?
Let's give deeproot time to work out the bugs and realize their visions to the best of their abilities.
And if you only have something negative to contribute be grateful that so many spent so much of their resources to build your soapbox.
I would like to see all the complainers put their work (whatever they do for a living) on display for the world to criticize.
Quoted from PinBallPeteFromSD:I have been doing electrical work for 20+ years. [quoted image]
That's pretty nice man. Not everyone excels at their job however.
Quoted from koji:The thing is that Deeproot made claims they were going to blow the competition away with innovations, putting everthing down etc. So you could argue these reactions are justified somewhat.
You can justify whatever you want. Even if I don't like someone or something, I am not gonna bash to the point of posting 10-20 negative posts just to make sure people hear me. There is a whole team of people who are putting their work into this. Countless hours I assume. Just put yourself in their shoes before posting some of the nasty things people post is what I am saying. I guess that makes them feel important or something.
Quoted from spoke:Go play one of your machines with no lock down bar on it. Not saying that is the same thing, but should give you a feel for what it might be like. Might be fine for a game or two, but play that way for an hour and see what you think.
Or work with your hands some and develop tougher hands. People are so afraid of how bad this will hurt and they haven't even tried it. Man up!
Quoted from benheck:The "innovative" PinBar (tm copyright) ignores millions of years of evolution. Human hands are meant to grasp round objects, namely tree branches and the limbs of other animals.
That's why your rake, steering wheel, shifter, gun handle, dildo, pan handle, drinking glass... ARE ROUNDED.
Except people who have actually tried firsthand this have said it is a non-issue.
Quoted from benheck:The "innovative" PinBar (tm copyright) ignores millions of years of evolution. Human hands are meant to grasp round objects, namely tree branches and the limbs of other animals.
That's why your rake, steering wheel, shifter, gun handle, dildo, pan handle, drinking glass... ARE ROUNDED.
Also don't assume that just because you have a dildo that others do also.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Why do you keep saying this? I haven't seen any "first hand" accounts of the new PainBar (tm).
If I understand correctly they weren't even able to play the machine, as it wasn't working. There was a "brief gameplay" demo according to the TWIP press release but that doesn't exactly make it sound like any of the VIP Six (tm) were able to put serious time on the game.
Pay attention...that is the first time I said that. I am not going to do research for you, but the video was posted just a little bit back.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Pay attention: when claiming there's "first hand" evidence of something the burden is on you to provide it - by the very nature of your claim it's already "second hand."
You can't just youtube video this away. It's a hard angled lockdown bar and it's fucking stupid. They obviously need to change it so looks like another year before we get to see that Food Truck prototype. Or they could just use the same normal lockdown bar we've all been happy with for 80 years instead of trying to shoehorn an ipad that nobody needs or wants into it.
You said I keep saying it, so that is why I say pay attention. It was the first time I said it.
So take the opinion of a group of pinsiders who have not touched the bar and have bashed this company relentlessly or take the opinion of someone who has actually touched and experienced it?
Grow up man.
Quoted from Yelobird:You don’t Really think your going to convince him to see anything but his opinion do you? Lol. Just played several games on Alien (deadly sharp corners) and had no issues. When their game comes out I will evaluate my own opinion.
[quoted image]
Lol, no I don't. I just hear the broken record over and over and over. I will personally hold judgement until I can really get to see this thing in more detail. I don't care for some of the other mfgs, but I don't have the time or care enough to spend hours bashing them on their threads.
Quoted from underlord:Moving on...
Somehow, I highly doubt that.
Quoted from NevadaNutJob:I actually just add more wood . It doesn’t seem to be a problem .
He was talking about the thermostat, not the pingina.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It's tough being a genius when everybody else is an idiot. Believe me I know!
Now that is funny. Best joke I've seen in a while.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Scrolling is hard.
Given the shitshow that this thread has become....I would rather not. I certainly did not see it when I asked, but maybe I missed something going in and back out of the thread.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:8 postings above yours but you have an argument!
Again, I thought I had seen all the posts from the last 2 pages. My deepest apologies. Hopefully you will find it in your heart to forgive me.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:For the third time in 2 hours or so:
Code updates are free for 1 year.
To be fair, reading is harder than scrolling.
Quoted from pinballwil:I always believed in Deeproot.
Don't ask my why but my filosofische mind never is wrong.
When the first games are ready for sale the most negative people will shut up.
The game looks AWESOME.
[quoted image][quoted image]
No, they will continue to search out something to bitch about.
Quoted from benheck:Fire and Brimstone is a terrible name. Makes you think of super right wing Southern baptists and all the most negative aspects of religion.
I was gonna do a Cecile b Demille/Michael Bay/God of War like Bible game. But then I made the mistake of mentioning the idea to Robert and here we are...
You seem very bitter. It's not healthy.
Quoted from Mercifull:I don’t know what Bens connection (and beef) is with Deeproot but he seems even more disgruntled against them than Homepin who, from what I gather, “stole” some of his code (at least during the prototyping stage).
If I parted ways with a company for any reason, the last thing I would do is spend hours upon hours posting about them worrying about what they are doing, making sure everyone knows how bad they are. I would move on with my life and forget about them.
Quoted from iceman44:but hey I’ve an open mind
No room for that in this thread.
I see what is going on now. They have taken all this time and spent millions on salaries and development costs to trick a couple hundred people into spending a few hundred bucks on a down payment so they can take that money and run. Those tricky bastards.
Quoted from iceman44:I’m assuming you are joking here. Lol
Yeah, this thing needs to work on a big scale and Raza is a small part of it
Gonna be tough.
Led Zeppelin on Tuesday and Alien as well.
Need to gain some traction
Yes, that was me joking. Not saying they have made it yet, but people still think they are scamming or something. With all that has happened, I do believe they will get games shipped.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Who has said they are scamming? I think that's your word.
Most if not all of us are talking about incompetence. 8 years to get a game to show, then recall it, then show it again? Primary designer took people's money and didn't produce a game. No manufacturing line seen so far. Parts not ordered. CEO calls LEDs "leads. "How much evidence do you need showing that this could end badly? If it's only a deposit, you might get away with just losing that I suppose.
This is the gamble purchase (or deposit), and it is one I'm not willing to take.
What do you call selling games and not making them? How many times have you seen the term vaporware in this thread?
Quoted from Tranquilize:No one is suggesting they are planning to rip anyone off.
You sure about that? We must be reading different threads. Also not sure why you take this so personally. I didn't direct that at you.
I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general. I feel bad for the people who have to live with some of these folks.
Quoted from benheck:I ran away from John's purple shit show and helped found Spooky, which has shipped thousands of ACTUAL GAMES, employs 30 people and generates millions for vendors.
I'm soooooo awful.
Yes, you have mentioned your achievements several times in this thread. There are many vile people who have done seemingly amazing things. Before you get your panties in a bunch I am not calling you vile. Funny how calling out negativity really hits a nerve.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Personally? What does this have to do with me? I couldn't care less. It's just that we do appear to be reading different threads. I see a thread full of men saying "Be careful here: we've seen all this before. They might not be able to pull this off." You see a thread full of men saying "Deeproot is systematically running a pinball racket to scam money. They have no intention of producing machines."
I've read the thread, and I'm simply arguing that your comprehension of the situation is incorrect.
It is.
"Personally", because I made a statement and you assume I am talking to you. When you say "no one here", you claim to speak for the entire group. I will apologize for upsetting you and setting you off. I am merely giving an alternative view to all the bitching. Just like everyone has a right to bitch, I have a right to call it out. No hard feelings, man.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Trolls be trollin'. I got duped.
Doh!
To be fair, we are in the darkest part of the year up here. Dark when I leave for work and dark coming home. 5 hrs of daylight makes me pretty miserable so I tend to let it get to me. I shouldn't be posting while miserable.
Quoted from BallPin:Yah that's a safer bet, but I don't know. They want pre-orders in by end of December? Then maybe wait a month to see if any more orders trickle in and then what? Actually build the games? LMAO!...My guess is sit on their hands for a bit, blame low preorder turnout and shut down February or March while running away with full deposits once again. Too many red flags, a company like Deeproot demanding full deposit, and a one month window creating FOMO, and then what is the next step? A factory magically appears and makes the games? Deeproot all of a sudden firing on all cylinders and knows what they are doing, and starts distributing machines? or...or...we follow the same trend that's been going on for 8-9 years with RAZA and NEVER see it in the wild...I don't know...one of those makes more sense to me. Think about it, this game has been in production for like 8 years and when it was time to reveal it back in September, it was a no show, Deeproot when dark for months, only to release it at a cafe and now its ready to sell? Come on, sooooo many red flags and people still buying this thing? They can't do anything right, not even a simple thing as a launch, but somehow they are going to figure it all out in December....okay. I also have land on the Sun I'd like to sell you.
They are not asking for a full deposit. 10% for arcade and 20% for the xtra.
Quoted from BallPin:Yah that's a safer bet, but I don't know. They want pre-orders in by end of December? Then maybe wait a month to see if any more orders trickle in and then what? Actually build the games? LMAO!...My guess is sit on their hands for a bit, blame low preorder turnout and shut down February or March while running away with full deposits once again. Too many red flags, a company like Deeproot demanding full deposit, and a one month window creating FOMO, and then what is the next step? A factory magically appears and makes the games? Deeproot all of a sudden firing on all cylinders and knows what they are doing, and starts distributing machines? or...or...we follow the same trend that's been going on for 8-9 years with RAZA and NEVER see it in the wild...I don't know...one of those makes more sense to me. Think about it, this game has been in production for like 8 years and when it was time to reveal it back in September, it was a no show, Deeproot when dark for months, only to release it at a cafe and now its ready to sell? Come on, sooooo many red flags and people still buying this thing? They can't do anything right, not even a simple thing as a launch, but somehow they are going to figure it all out in December....okay. I also have land on the Sun I'd like to sell you.
Also this is the exact type of post I was refereing to when I said people act like they are scamming or something. Then people were stating that no one said anything about scamming.
Quoted from hank527:What’s that they say about a fool and his money?
Best of luck to the supporters, they’re gonna need it.
But didn't you get burned thrice? No need to call others a fool.
Quoted from gonzo73:Sorry if this sound negative.
I want to see DR make new games, but.........
Most companys take a Holiday break.
When the Deep Root team reasembles Jan 2.
Are the doors going to be chained?
Did they get enough Raza orders to feel confident to continue burning money?
As Iceman said above, the path to just breaking even is years away, profitability??
Yikes!
I want a real WHO pin, so I'm pulling for DR.
Most companies I know take 1-2 days off for a holiday.
Quoted from TreyBo69:This is really off topic now
Let’s go back. Someone learned that someone else has been waiting for several years to get their RAZA. And someone replied that deep root has only been taking deposits for a few weeks.
I took exception to that because it’s purposefully obtuse. People did pay for RAZA years ago. That’s a fact
That’s all.
Please share whatever you are smoking with the rest of us.
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Wasilla, AK