Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider sven.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from VDrums2112:If Dennis Nordman ever quits, there's your sign that DeepRoot is in deep shit because that's the red flag that EVERYONE missed with the whole Heighway Shit Show.
-Steve
No, it wasn't missed by everyone. I think most people saw what was happening, there were so many signs, but also a lot WANTED to believe it was otherwise. Maybe most people did both? (knowing it just couldn't end well, but still hoping it would).
Quoted from kbliznick:Swap-able playfields is a massive waste of energy for any company to be trying, I don't get it. A stored pf is a crate is what 50-60% of the size of a stored full game? If you don't have room for multiple full games or storing full games where are you going to get the room to store crated pfs?
I don think that's true. When stored vertically, I think you can have 4 games in the spot of one full game.
I really like the idea of having a swappable system with multiple games for my 70 sqr metres apartement. But I'm not so sure it's a good idea from a business point of view (how much demand is there really? and what are the development costs?). I'm not sure if I'd buy just a playfield for >65% of the price of a new game, and I don't think the price would be under 60%: it'd save a cabinet and electronics, but all development costs of a game (sound, software, video, design, etc.), amortization, etc. still would have to be earned by selling full games and playfields. IF it would mean less full games being sold and more kits, those costs would have to be spread among the kits as well. I think a model like this would only make sense IF you'd sell mostly extra kits on top of the normal games sales.
Well, we'll see, but first impression is that they're 'over-inventing' indeed, like knockerlover says.
Quoted from kdecgp:Is a backbox even necessary anymore?
If I'm not mistaken, Gerry Stellenberg tried to get rid of the backbox with multimorphic games, but people didn't like it, so a backbox was made for those games.
People thought it didn't look right.
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:Saw this today. Thoughts?
My thoughts:
- It's a drawing, not a pinball game
- Things are taking way longer than expected (well....expected by some)
- I can't believe Deeproot can ever make up for all of the costs they're making
- I hope things will turn out well for the employees (designers, audio, etc) of Deeproot. And for pinball enthusiasts it would be nice if Deeproot will produce some great games at a reasonable price
Are those the thoughts you're asking for? 
Quoted from frolic:I never posted many reviews, but I had to admit to myself I'm biased towards the machines I own
I think that's true for most people. It's also the other way around though: you'd sooner buy games you really like, so it makes sense that you rate those higher.
About Robert Muellers statement: nothing special. It's unacceptable, the competition is screwing things up, and we'll do better.
.....
let's see a Deeproot production game first
.....
IMO: No reason to listen to the podcast (I'm sorry, I did listen to that part, even though I wasn't really expecting anything :p ).
Quoted from Tranquilize:There has been an uprise if violence toward Chinese ppl since the outbreak. Changing the name to something racial does nothing good.
I agree and thought the same when I read those words: why call it the Chinese coronavirus? That doesn't help a bit and has no purpose at all.
About Deeproot: good that they're revealing online. I do hope they present some nice games, with a Barry Oursler or another designers game, but I do fear it will disappoint. We'll see: whatever the reveal is, I always like to see new game(s), even if it's only just a game that's been improved since last showing. I don't know if that'd be enough to keep/get Deeproot out of trouble though (if they're not in big trouble already, that is).
In 10 days we'll be wiser than now (thanks to DS_Nadine for counting ).
Quoted from Extraballz:Swine flu H1N1 started in the good old USA.
And here in the Netherlands I've never heard anyone day 'the American swine flu'. Even though a lot of you think that'd be ok, I don't think attaching a countries name to a desease is a good thing.
Quoted from Yelobird:Nobody of right mind is looking to buy any new pins in this economy forecast
This might be true for some/a lot of people, but not for everyone. I think with the extra amount of money over the world pumped in the economy you might see inflation, so your money will be worth less. Besides: sitting at home a long time...good time to buy a new game. I've never bought nib before, but am considering it more lately (though I need to make room first)
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I seen 22 new posts and thought Deep Root had released some info. Then when I started reading I forgot that I was even in the Deep Root thread.
It was pretty entertaining for a minute though.
I thought for a moment about making a new topic, stating Deeproot had launched with 3 new titles, but I changed my mind for it wouldn't have been a nice April fools joke (I wouldn't like it if I was an employee of Deeproot). Besides I don't think people would fall for it?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Mattel is too big to take a risk and be helping little startups get off the ground
I don't think Deeproot will survive (based on history and what I read here, so what I think isn't of that much value), but I wouldn't call Deeproot a 'little' startup. That said, I think they'd have more chance to survive if they were a little startup instead of a big one.
Thanks for the vid.
So the ramp shot does look cool. There's no animation playing when it's shot though, so either there was a technical problem, or there's a major problem in how far software and or animations have been developped so far.
I didn't watch the whole video: just went to the peaces with footage of the game, so what the problem is/was may have been adressed by Cary.
Quoted from chooch:Quoted from wrb1977:
...and you Ben are obsessed with JPop.
Quoted from chooch:...and you are obsessed with Ben obsessing over JPop
I upvated both, for both are at least partially true it seems to me 
Quoted from hank527:I’ve been burnt by Heighway, Jpop, and Kevin, so I’m very skeptical on that entire thing.
I think there are some who just want to believe evertything is going to be fine, and some who simple don't really care about the deposit money and think 'why not, I don't mind if I lose that money' and just wait what, if and when things will happen.
I myself have more faith in the new Alien than in the Deeproot production. Even without knowing anything of the past, the whole 'we still have to order some parts' combined with 'we'll start delivering in januari of 2021' sounds extremely absurd to me. It's like the new 'it will ship in 2 weeks' that Heighway had: everybody WANTS to believe it, but after a while, very little DO still believe it.
We'll see.....
And why do I have more faith in the new Alien production? Well, it's not that I have faith or not, but at least they've given less signals that they won't be able to do what they plan to do. For Deeproot the only thing that gives me just a tiny little hope is that there's already so much spend, that it would be strange not to at least try to produce games. But I think all signs say 'stay away unless that depositmoney really isn't an issue for you at all'.
Quoted from screaminr:I can forgive Robert for his initial mistakes .
But to consistently keep making them , like announcing shipping dates when you don't even have a manufacturer for your PIN bar , is mind boggling .
Indeed. Unless John is blackmailing RM, RM is to blame as much, if not more, than John P for the strange decissions.
Quoted from denoument:Anybody out there really interested to see what cool "ground breaking mech" Barry Oursler is planning to unveil in his Black Hole inspired game? I know I am. I hope this company does well so I get to see whatever he is planning.
Yes I am, but I'm afraid it will never see the light of day. One can always hope/dream though.
Quoted from drfrightner:THREE HUNDRED and TWENTY THREE pages about a pinball company that has NEVER shipped a game EVER! Simply Amazing!
You see? That's innovation! No other pinball company has achieved that
I'm sorry for the pre-order guys and the Barry's and Davids at deeproot. For their sake (and because it's always nice to see new games) I hope things will work out in the end, but to put it mildly I've never been optimistic about that, and that doesn't improve over time (again and again).
One can always dream/hope.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Not only in everyone’s pinball money long gone but his investment clients too!?
How could anyone think investment money could still there after all those years of expenses? Nobody really believed his 'it's my own money' ever, I hope?
Quoted from jimwe5t:This is the tragic part of all the DR scandal, the poor victims.
Indeed: I feel sorry for the investors. The purchasers of RAZA: I'm sorry it turned out badly, but you could know how small the chances were that you were getting a game, and even got an 'get out' opportunity, so unless you didn't read any of the deeproot topics, you were warned and took a gamble most of us thought was madness.
The investors I feel really sorry for: I think they knew way less about the deeproot investments and deeproots work creating a pinball company with expenses, anyone with a sense numbers could see would in the most positive scenario still never make any profit ever, than we did (of the pinball part of the business).
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Lots of talented people that hopefully we will see what they were working on.
This part of your post I agree with. (The rest though.... 
...after all that's happened and that you've read of others, working with JPOP....really? Why?)
It would be really nice if the designs of Dennis and Barry would be saved by another company, or that we could at least see what they had developped. I don't think though it'll bring in enough money for Deeproot or its investors to be satisfied enough to sell it for? Maybe if they're auctioned and could be bought for a small amount, another company could be interested, but otherwise I don't really see that happening. And I don't think Dennis or Barry are allowed to share their designs, not even when all is finished? We can hope some pictures of the designs will come up someday by some means .
Quoted from pookycade:Always right (don’t quote any of his past posts though), always loud, always itching for a fight, and for some gawdawful reason always given a free pass by Pinsiders after having his self imposed time out. Some people find it entertaining. I sure don’t.
In my 9 years of pinside, I've only used the ignore button once. I don't agree with a lot of people, but I normally never put them on ignore. I agree on the 'not entertaining' and I really couldn't take it anymore (and I used that button years ago, but given the responses I read here, I'm still glad that I did).
Quoted from greatwichjohn:The new company that I was dealing with for pinball production has gone silent, & the other had a business fall out. Still talking with others interested in entering the hot market. Those are not involved with Deeproot. So you never know what might happen with what may have been done over the years if some new group buys up stuff cheap.
Good luck with that...
Quoted from Haymaker:I'm not very smart so....
If its any consolation I think most of us know the couple of names that really deserve some ridicule, but of course, they lost nothing. Still though, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You thought you had yourself a chance at a shiny rare game that you could show off and flaunt, it didn't matter the people who we knew were getting screwed even in the beginning as long as you got your item right? I'm glad you "only" lost 7k. Thats a lot less than what a lot of investors lost to obvious con man Robert Mueller, but you didn't seem to care then. Look, like I said, I don't want to see anyone lose money, but you got nobody but yourself to blame for such an obviously bad decision, and I hope you take a moment to reflect on the enabling you did now that we know more details.
PS- thank you though, for bringing yourself to light and being open about it. I mean that. Its a lot more noble than what a lot of others did.
I did agree with your first post, about people who ordered were to blame for themselves, but I think that may not be true for everyone: not everyone read here that much. There were people calling others for not believing, but that's in my opinion completely different from those who just heard of a new company and the Raza game and just bought into it without reading about all the warnings about Deeproot at pinside. I thought my upvote may have been a bit harsh to them.
Quoted from ForceFlow:You didn't have to read threads on the forums to get an idea that something was off.
I know. I agree it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a business model that made any sense, and that one way or another it was doomed to fail. But I can also imagine some people may hardly read pinside at all. Though they may not be insulted at all, for they probably don't read the comments that state 'it's kind of your own fault'. :p
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider sven.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tu=sven and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Unknown