Salt Lake City, UT
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(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013-
Celts
Haggis, 2021
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Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
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4 months later
I’m new to the hobby.
Name me a new company that people/buyers threw money at that actually came through for them with a great machine, thus warranting the prerequisite to give money to them without a trusted name and reputation to stand on? Was the product/machine worth “getting in on” before orders were being fulfilled?
Quoted from LTG:Illinois Pin Ball ( Big Bang Bar )
Jersey Jack Pinball ( Wizard Of Oz )
LTG : )
I guess I challenge that it was worth the risk. If that game is that good. Then it’s likely it would rereleased.
Quoted from LTG:They didn't announce and ask for deposits
Very Important distinction.
2 weeks later
Quoted from marlboroman:I already love this company !!
It takes steel balls to talk this way... that means you can back it up hence, great things to come GO GO GO Deeproot!!!
you’ve apparently never spent a lot of time around short men.
Quoted from GuiitarMan:Cobra Kai has been in the Top 10 on Netflix for ages...
“for ages” it was added to Netflix a month ago
Quoted from CLEllison:Cobra Kai is a "youtube original". Season 1 episode 1 was released on Netflix on 5/02/2018.
Anyway the more you know.
Oh I know! I was working for Youtube when it dropped years ago. Couldn’t find a fellow viewer back then. I was specifically pointing out that it hadn’t “been on Netflix for ages”
Quoted from DaveH:But where? With there be a stream? Where can we tune in? Or do we have to just wait on this thread for all the negativity and bitterness to flow forth.
I’d wager the Deeproot Pinball website.
Quoted from Kkoss24:Pinside is the first and only form of social media I’ve been on .Talk about baptism by fire !
lol
Quoted from JodyG:I am calling it now...Deeproot folds by October.
The point of "calling it" is to do so before the the appearance of fact. I recommend you reread this entire thread.
Quoted from frolic:I think this post from 2019 really says it all...
Some sort of announcement of a 2d game (app?) featuring RAZA assets. Not the worst idea in the world, but where is it? Why announce it?
Another example of their lack of ability to complete anything. And if they can't get an app out the door... yikes.[quoted image]
I can decipher this for you guys. Deeproot Studios focuses on the art packages for the pins. This is a preview of the 2D animation/art assets for RAZA. (As opposed to other games having a 3D asset pipeline like FoodTruck). No standalone game.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Probably was comparing to a Stern Premium, not a pro. Was "pro" a word Robert actually used? I think he just stated "cheaper than a Stern".
I’ve only been in the hobby for a short time...but I know this. People will pay and slightly overpay for a title they want. The toppers alone are now being priced as limited edition status symbols. Why would you undercut a competitor that is making decent profits? Is the price really that big of a factor for buyers? If a manufacturer started making machines for $5000...do you think that would disrupt Stern? It wouldn't. Stern’s price also reflects the license price.
I’m a Lego collector. Star Wars LEGO cost 180% more than Ninjago (price per brick average). Because Lego owns Ninjago...they can make them cheaper because they don’t pay the licensing costs. Star Wars still outsells Ninjago.
1 month later
Quoted from wrb1977:And what is that? Enlighten me.
if 12k posts in this thread can’t enlighten you...what’s one more?
2 weeks later
1 week later
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:When in reality, real pinball people see through this for what it is. An elaborate charade.
What makes it “elaborate”? Having a semblance of a production factory assembly line setup would make it “elaborate” certainly.
Anybody care to guess how many orders get placed in the next few weeks?
Quoted from DS_Nadine:If they were readily available (and without that shitty new import tax) I‘d propably get in on one.
Says the guy without a machine newer than 1995. I simply don’t believe you.
Put your money where your mouth is. Talk with your wallet and put some weight behind your hype.
Quoted from spinal:DR is literally RE-inventing every single element of the pinball machine as we know it, hardware and software...
You must not know how pinball machines are put together. 99% of these machines are same old.
Quoted from Tomass:I don't know how this plays out but all the haters just represent the worst of pinside and our society in general. I feel bad for the people who have to live with some of these folks.
I worked for Deeproot Studios last year and quit after Robert stopped paying me. I have 4 kids and couldn’t lend him money via “work without pay”. It’s feasible he owes me interest on late payment. He has since thrown a cease and desist at me and has threatened to pursue after a bonus he paid me as I joined his organization. Don’t assume we are all haters. You might just be lacking perspective.
1 week later
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:If you think that's bad, you should see how many team member photos are missing from https://deeprootstudios.com/team/
Over half of those people no longer work there
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Ah, and many who have team photos were already removed from those that remain displayed.
myself included. Haha
Quoted from Warzard:Ok the list have changed for sure. How do you guys know those guys have been laid out? Did you ask them or do you know the current team out there?
It’s still speculation. It’s not because one known person in here have left than there was no turnover.
I’ve changed companies, and people are getting fired. We don’t know the details... only one side version can be talked in here anyway.
Are you intentionally being daft? It’s not speculation. Speak for yourself. YOU don’t know the details.
Quoted from wesman:Possibly because unvetted anger only feeds into the worst aspects of humanity, versus building into the better qualities, which need nurtured and assisted to flourish.
Humans will naturally float towards cynicism, versus optimism. The prior takes less work, and on a genuine level, easier to build with other large groups of people. This thread is an example of that.
Just as much as ignorant positivity needs checked, so does virulent negativity.
Do not mistake unpopular facts for skepticism and cynicism.
Quoted from wesman:Yes, but you're an ex employee with a hatchet in hand, no? You and Robert both would have to be taken with a reasonable grain of salt by any objective bystander. Your skin in the game is literal skin, your time, skill, passion, etc. I understand and respect that.
Any reasonable person questions all sides.
And why does this thread exist? What fuels it daily? Why does it have far more longevity than the preorder thread has and will?
People gravitate more towards hate, than hope, natively so. See the last 4 painful years for a grand, nauseating, global example of that.
no hatchet. For my part. I wasn’t at DR long enough to feel unfairly treated. Just love pinball.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from Mbecker:They did say in December that it would start in January- didn’t they? Just checking.. January seems to be almost over
The button is jammed. Or not plugged in.
Quoted from TaTa:True. That's why I bought both! GNRCE & RAZA Xtra. They'll look gorgeous next to one anther
Earth to you. You didn’t buy Raza.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Forgot about that one! Gotta love Robert's commitment to publicly talking shit about how other companies suck at manufacturing pinball games.
If you didn't receive your shirt, I can only assume it's because deeproot didn't receive your quote submission. Emails bounced to the address Robert originally indicated, [email protected], presumably because they had failed to actually set up a corresponding account. You should try again because I'm sure Robert is eager to make good on his promise to you and 49 other winners.
Part suppliers for the shirts have broken their commitments to Robert. Thread count was too low.
1 week later
Quoted from iceman44:Not how it worked in this case. No direct investment from investors into a pinball
Company as far as I can tell
I’ve explained it before. Read the SEC documents on file for the Deeproot 575 fund and you get the gist of it
yep
Quoted from benheck:I highly doubt the $41 million is all for pinball. It's the deeproot fund not deeproot tech/pinball.
Also, yes, please explain how there aren't investors? Who is buying this fund? There's finders fees, which means someone is getting paid for convincing someone. Unless it's the fed printing funny money it has to come from somewhere.
RE parking lots... I think Spooky is up to 30 full time employees? But that's with good sales. They made 150 AMH with like 3 people.
As I've mentioned before there's no point in spinning up a line to make 130 games. Unless there's a second title ready to go you'll have to shut down the line and lay everyone off when done. A line is a vicious beast that you have to keep shoveling games into.
If they build their paltry, laughable, embarrassing 160 games and then shut down the line it means they have to rehire and retrain another group when Food Truck is ready, which will sell even worse BTW.
Logical lies!
Quoted from NoQuarters:@ benheck
Agree - if the number is even a legit 160 games, and I think that number is inflated, they will just build the games by hand probably a half dozen maybe 10 people if they have them. It will take them all year to get Raza built, provided they actually get or have parts to fully build units - which seems in doubt with the pinbar stamping which would cost bookoo bucks. They got some real problems, even just to build them by hand. Doubt they will have a real line or be able to tool one up.
And even after that all happens you have a mediocre game with no flow
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:They limited sales to create FOMO. Robert must have finally realized that John's themes weren't going to sell in the thousands.
Original themes have ZERO chance in a world without shows to play them at (TNA) And yet R&m and GNR2 sells out in a day. THEME. IS. ALL. THAT. MATTERS!
Maybe instead of calling Pinside a sewer these "businesses geniuses" should use it as FREE market research as to what people want.
Remember Robert spent more saving John/Zidware than Stern spent licensing FRIGGING STAR WARS.
“A sewer” is one the many degrading terms I’ve heard Robert use regarding Pinsiders. And one of the more mild insults.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:While we wait on the joyous unboxing videos that are right around the corner, it could be fun to take a trip down memory lane with some favorite DR gems. I'll start:
"Unlike everyone else in the industry who shows off something shiny and then does the immediate take away, we simply are not going to tell everyone what we’re doing. When the masterpiece is ready, we will unveil it for everyone to enjoy. It is hard to believe that we (who arguably have more capitalization then all the other pinball participants combined and having accomplished the impossible in other industries) would not be able to find a way to do something as easy as pinball."
Savage.
Kaptain Karma always wins.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Mr68:Todays quote from Deeproot:
Now, compare Deeproot's previous quote that they're referencing from 31 days ago.
What a joke. He’s a lawyer...I mean liar.
Quoted from Mr68:The infrastructure for Deeproot has always seemed seat-of-the-pants and top heavy.
You have no idea.
Quoted from russdx:To be fair any one here could of wrote that review.. id take it with a pinch of salt.
I wouldn’t take that with a pinch of salt at all. I can name 10 people who were in this same boat last year. Same story. Told over and over. But by all means “we hope you get your games”
Quoted from Haymaker:YoU'rE jUsT bItTeR
You say “bitter” but what you mean is “the most informed person in this thread”
1 week later
Quoted from DakotaMike:I'm feeling feisty, so here's a controversial hot take: I actually DO want deeproot to fail.
I'm sick and tired of loudmouth, incompetent assholes like Robert Mueller, who can never admit to making a mistake. I don't want egomaniacs who manage to get some cash behind them through either graft, inheritance, or dumb-luck to succeed.
We've got plenty of pinball manufacturers now. More than enough with Stern, JJP, CGC, API, and Spooky. Plus, we've got P3 Multi, The PB Bros, Dutch, and Haggis to name a few more small-run guys. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say we've got too many pinball manufacturers right now. I'd love to see a few of these companies team-up or merge together. They could increase overall volume to reduce their costs and overhead, and maybe we'd actually see more than 1 game a year from a company besides Stern.
The only reason I'd even half-want deeproot to succeed is so that Zidware people can be made whole, assuming that RM actually intends to follow-through with that promise. And I'm sorry, but as much as I like Steve Bowden, he can't redeem the utter shitshow that is RM, JPop, and deeproot.
Couldn’t agree more.
I want good things to happen to good, smart people.
2 weeks later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It would be nice if obnoxious rich newbies didn't announce themselves by throwing a bunch of money around while talking shit about EVERYBODY in the industry and hobby for years, for reasons that I don't think anybody yet understands. If that's "balls" I think I'll just go with ovaries on this one.
For those keeping score...that’s 17 upvotes on this post.
1 month later
Just caught up on 360 posts of absolutely nothing. I’ll add some actual meat.
Robert has zero understanding, respect or reverence for manufacturing and production of any kind. To say he bit off more than he could chew here in Utah is an understatement.
When I was recruited to Deeproot back in 2019, the recruiter/employee lead with this
“well...there’s a rich guy that wants to start an animation and visual effect empire in Salt Lake City. He wants to hire 200 animation artists within the next year. He says he wants to be “a Sony”. He is first starting in pinball then wants to branch out and dominate in other fields. It sounds crazy but that’s what he says”
So many stories.
Robert inquired numerous times how many employees other Utah studios Had...cause he wanted to know when he could state that he had the “biggest animation company in Utah”.
Less than a few months later he informed us “the money pipeline has dried up”.
He’s a real planner.
His leadership team “the board” here in Utah had a number of back-biters and con-artists that bickered endlessly and had little competency to actually produce 3D animation. When Robert didn’t know how to manage them, he would hire a new outsider that said they could shape things up and threw them on “the board” as well. It became a lion’s den...hyena den.
These guys were pulling approx 200k each a year.
To be fair There were a few great talented guys in there too...but they didn’t have the leadership experience to keep their hands on the wheel and train Robert and guide his expectations. As a group they failed to establish budgets, schedules, and goals.
For all of us that worked there...it was draining. After my first week, I think 10-15 people individually asked me “what made you think coming here was a good idea?” I replied...
“I like pinball”
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Ever think of doing a podcast interview, Scandell?
I’ve been approached but haven’t set anything up. I was working as an art director at Google in Northern California when I decided to chase a pinball job. The siren’s call to Pinball adventure was too great for me to stay at the highest paying job I ever had. Hahaha
2 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from iceman44:its this part that is troubling to me. Covid had NOTHING to do with DR not being able to produce a pinball machine and now they got saved by PPP taxpayer money despite the Gold Medal level “imbecile management” award winners for years.
Covid saved their collective asses
This is completely true.
2 weeks later
Quoted from flynnibus:Texas is employment at will. They can drop him like a hot potato at any time. No need to justify a termination - just avoid claims of discrimination.
Tsk tsk tsk. IMO, You are underestimating the unearned self-confidence of RM. If Robert’s agreement with Jpop is half as short-sighted as some of the other employment agreements I was shown by other employees…he can’t drop Jpop. For being a lawyer…the man can’t write an employment agreement that protects his own company’s interests fer shiz. Collects employees like trophies and promises the world to get them to sign.
He started the company from nothing. With zero personal experience in this field. I imagine he made agreements and guarantees to key people to ensure their involvement until the units were built and shipped and beyond.That’s how he thinks….IMO.
Don’t check the parking lot on fridays… Deeproot Studios in Utah was on a 9-80 schedule.(80 work hours spread across 9 days) (Every other Friday off) might be the same for Texas.
That being said…one of the early warning signs I noticed when I joined…was that most of the employees were doing more of a 9-55. There was a solid two-three hours every evening where I was one of the three people that stuck around until the end of the work day.
My “manager” left at 2pm every day.
Kaneda is the super entertaining and holds companies accountable. Love his show. I’ve only been listening for the last 150 shows…seems like he made some mistakes early on in this community…but he’s hit his stride now.
DeepRoot.
This is over. I’d wager You won’t be hearing from RM again. When narcissistic man-child’s are finally forced to confront the truth of their failures, they’d rather game-over than hit continue. If you catch my drift.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:I really have no clue what you’re going on about.
Seriously. Is this story time? No company in their right mind is going to take on the “lawsuit king of cease-and-desists” as a client. Wise up.
And what remaining “intentions” have not already been communicated by RM?
Quoted from iceman44:And you won’t change any minds here. Like a bunch of vultures flying over a dying animal.
Says the biggest vulture in here. Whatever it takes to get your game right?
Quoted from Yoreland:We were advised by counsel
aka RM.
Quoted from Yoreland:We cannot discuss the parties or what the complaint is about
"We CHOOSE" not to discuss..."
Quoted from Yoreland:We cannot provide a timeline.
"We sucks at timelines...deadlines...managing time....what is "time" really?"
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I’d love to hear what the investors think of this plan. They are probably the ones suing him
If somebody mentions “the investors” again…I’m going to rage.
There. Are. No. Investors.
Quoted from cpr9999:I invested through PPP loan / charity.
How do I get my money back?
touché haha
Quoted from TreyBo69:Also Scandell
You mentioned knowing of Farewell Dinosaur before (a RJM joint)
Do you know of Robot Dreams Entertainment?
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_tx/0803576777
Robert has sooo many companies. Almost limitless limited liability
https://opencorporates.com/officers/us_tx?q=Robert+J+Mueller
Similar situation to Farewell Dinosaur.
Quoted from frolic:For my own clarity, to see if I understand this:
Your statement is referring to the fact that none of the tens of millions of dollars raised through deeproot finance is "for" deeproot pinball. Those people have no idea it exists. All they bought was a "financial product", and as long as their promised returns are made, they don't know/don't care about any of this.
Am I understanding correctly?
That’s essentially my understanding. It benefited from being part of a portfolio. (Past tense)
Quoted from TreyBo69:Hope to hear the story on both some day
I figured all those animators had to be doing more than some pinball cinematic.
Nope.
Quoted from Lounge:I wouldn’t go quite that far. Most of us can see where this is headed.
Exactly. People that have little facts are still wondering.
Quoted from benheck:Who's gonna start up the documentary on this mess?
"Pinball Lizards - The Fall of Deeproot"
You can’t fall if you never rose
Quoted from JStoltz:Why continue to drag employees along at the very unlikely prospect of a return to work?
This wasn’t the first time! The stories…Apparently in early 2019…before I worked there. An employee went to the Utah labor commission and complained about missing/late pay. The office sent an agent over to verify the situation. Afterward, Robert called a meeting and chewed everyone out. “How does it help anybody here if you report this stuff? It doesn’t. It just hurts us all.”
I’m Paraphrasing. Like I said. I wasn’t there.
Quoted from Mbecker:Haha! I forgot I said that. All the stupid decisions he’s made .. at least this one makes sense. It does seem he furloughed not only because of parts but the uncertain timeline and trajectory or said lawsuit (assuming it exists..).
He’s furloughed many many separate times over the last two years.
Robert spoke of me specifically in his last/final Kaneda interview.
He pulled out one of his ol’reliables…where he questions why I would do something or say something that may put the employment of my excoworkers in jeopardy. Like…if I say something true…it would shut down his company and my buddies would lose their jobs. “It’s your fault I hit you!”
Nice logic RM. Trust me. It’s your actions…not mine.
Quoted from TreyBo69:How dare you expect to be paid as agreed upon /s
Haha exactly. I think it was “If you tell people about me not paying you money I owe you and furloughing you…it hurts YOU more than it hurts me”
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Did you eventually get paid back everything you were owed?
Yes. I was all caught up promptly but only after I quit.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:The original Arrested Development series is one of the funniest things ever. So there are definite similarities to deeproot.
“There’s money in pinball machines”
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:I know you are speaking english, but am I the only one that doesn't understand 75% of your posts?
Nope
61F2316B-333D-41CE-BE12-42EB060B0685 (resized).jpegQuoted from underlord:Great guy. Horrible employer. RM has done damage all at the expense of hubris. Goodbye mr. mueller. You don’t deserve capital letters.
??? I wasn't talking about RM.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:That seems to be the problem. People cannot figure out I am a good guy trying to help out. Just sent another email to Jack about playfields. Seems like a lot of stuff I post seems to be cryptic to some, but I cannot spill all the beans if asked not to. Just like what is going on with Homepin or not for the next title. I do post up info trying to help out Mirco, but you never see a response from him trying to help him out.
You seem cool. I’m sorry if anything I stated made you feel like less. You’re posts made me smile but just seemed very very naive. “Capabilities” was never what RM lacked to get these machines done. So you constantly stating that there are deals being made behind secret doors that will guarantee these Razas get made just is too much to take after the omnibus that is this thread.
You couldn’t pry these themes and designs out of RM’s hands if you tried. He’ll die owning them. How do I know that?
1. No capable business in their right mind would be a downstream contractor for Mr Mueller and his legal-trigger finger and his reputation as being someone unreasonable and silly. So why would anyone step up and put that target on their back?
2. He can’t manufacture them under his own supervision because he doesn’t know how to discern between competence and incompetence…problem-solvers and problem-makers. He has a history of trusting the wrong people.
Quoted from brucipher:When is Robert sending out a new update?? LoL
In all seriousness, sucks for everyone who lost money here. Hopefully one of these days the pinball community will learn from the past.
As iceman has explained numerous times:
It doesn’t suck for him…because he’s wealthy.
(If you didn’t know…he’s wealthy)
Quoted from benheck:Hey has Robert been outed as Mormon yet?
Yup. He's Mormon.
So am I.
Got a problem?
Substitute "Mormon" for "homosexual", "Korean" or "Jew" and you be considered an ignorant bigot.
Quoted from DerGoetz:LOL
Triggered much?
I'm an atheist and if someone calls me out on it I don't give a shit.
Define "calls me out".
Quoted from Mr68:[quoted image]
Oh. I have stories about this fiasco-of-an-idea.
Quoted from lockeness:To me, the most interesting aspect of this is how COVID impacted and extended the narrative. This thing would have imploded a year ago if not for PPP, and RM was exactly the type of individual that would exploit a once in a lifetime free money opportunity.
You have no idea how true this is. They were on the verge of being caught during the 2019 TPF. Nothing to show. Look back at what he promised to reveal at that show...nope. Covid saved their ass...for a time.
Quoted from frolic:If memory serves, deeproot noshowed 2019 TPF because Robert was getting married that exact same weekend. It always struck me as really odd timing when they had spent thousands being a marquee sponsor of that show.
Correct. I meant 2020
Quoted from woodworker:This has been on Riot Pinball's website for ages:
[quoted image]
AIW is open IP. Anybody can make it.
Art thieves. Not a good way to start.
7A1A38F1-7308-40C1-BE38-80B2B4F4AF29 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from woodworker:WHOA! You're right! He totally copied this!!
[quoted image]
I'm starting to realize....this hobby...is polluted with POS.
We pointed it out above. It's obvious whoever drew this AIW playfield mockup...traced over the J Scott Campbell drawing from above.
Quoted from mbwalker:Are you saying that is from DR Utah studios? Or did someone else draw that?
Quoted from Inside:So wait - was there an actual legal issue about RAZA and then the SEC suit came out of nowhere? Robert was deposed by the SEC recently - surely he knew something was up?
Rm never said it was a Raza related legal issue.
Quoted from Darscot:So you are not allowed to copy art in a sketch? Its a sketch, is it for sale? He saw something and thought that looks great I want it to look like that and sketched into what is clearly a very early prototype. Artist do this every day and it is completely normal. Girl bent over with boobs is an original work these days?
Hey I get that. It's a mockup. If one is going to release an image online...there are methods to represent your concept work with transparency. It's not the actions of a professional.
Quoted from Darscot:The artist you said is the creator was born decades after this pose was painted on every plane and bomb in the War. He copied it himself, that is how art works. The guy that painted it on the plane copied it off the tattoo on his buddies arm.
I'm glad you're hear to tell me how art works. Couldn't do this without you.
Quoted from Darscot:Sorry but its pretty funny when you calling people thieves/pieces of shit for copying this and you think this is an original work of a guy born in 73.
Well...if you really want to get into it. I've seen this EXACT alternate composition from J Scott Campbell with the Mad Hatter standing in front of Alice. It's in one of his sketchbooks. It's NOT just the sexy girl pose. It's the entire design. Go back to your sofa.
Quoted from Darscot:Yeah an no one had ever done that style of a pin up girl Alice in Wonderland and the Mad Hatter. The whole thing is an homage to other artists. Like I said the kind of thing that Artist do every day. If the guy that did the sketch is a thieve and piece of shit the artist you quoted is also a thief and piece of shit. People have been doing stylized Alice in Wonderland since they commissioned an artist for the book cover.
Again, glad you're here to tell us what "artists" do every day.
Quoted from Darscot:Yeah no artist ever takes inspiration from other artist work, especially things that have been part of pop culture since the 1800's. Taking inspiration for a sketch does not make you a thief and a piece of shit.
Tracing...even bad tracing like this is not "taking inspiration". Did you or your brother or cousin draw this or something? This is the Pooed Deep thread...everybody has been called a POS in here.
Quoted from Mr68:Does anybody know if Jpop, Bowden, Barry O or any others still going in to work? I wonder if Robert is still surrounding himself in a security blanket.
"into work"? The Texas location is no longer in operation. ALL employees furloughed.
Quoted from zombieyeti:I absolutely do!
My only conceit is that it is ever so slightly apples & oranges - his focus is layout, drawing (and ink if he has time) - I divvy up between layout, drawing, inking, & color which means I often have to make concessions in one area and make up for it in another due to time and complexity on pinball projects.
I end up a jack of all trades - master of none If my ocd would allow me to farm out portions I would - and some day I want to so I can focus more upfront.
But yeah - J Scott is masterclass!
Exactly. I hope I didn’t come across badly. But what you said is what I meant. JSC has chased a visual design craft to its obsessive completion. He slayed the specific dragon he was determined to slay. You are attacking multiple at once!
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Anything public to point to on that?
I'd love to see if the furloughing lines up perfectly (or perhaps imperfectly?) with the job retention requirements of PPP loans.
From what I have heard. Robert was most likely legally advised to stop spending a single dime on this until this legal issue is resolved. This is the first time in the history of Deeproot that he has also stopped providing health care. Which means…spending freeze.
Total speculation and I know nothing. But I know more than most of you “POS”. (This is a joke)
Quoted from JodyG:I'm guessing this is more than a voluntary freeze....the well has run dry.
Um. no. I am not speaking to the status of the financial fund that Robert manages. I am merely stating that money is no longer flowing to anything pinball...at the moment.
Robert refers to his well as either "the money pipeline" or "the warchest".
Quoted from zombieyeti:Nope! Didn't take it in any bad way
He's a way more lifelong focus guy! He knew what he wanted and pursued it from an early age!
I came from being raised a construction worker, to college being a fine arts major, to graduating as an animation major, to taking 10 years off from drawing anything to doing programming and design & art direction. I was never focused in any disciplined coming up - I wanted to do everything!
Getting back into illustration in 2011 was revelatory for me. I was an adult who had coincidentally became disciplined but still liked aspects of many things. Pinball was a perfect fit for many reasons!
I had no idea! What a ride! In pinball, you are the benchmark to which all others are compared. Call me a "fan" and "friend". Hope to meet you sometime.
My post got pinged by a mod for not being kind to GWJ. I don’t disagree. I was mad. Meanwhile there are folks in here still trying to score a toy on the financial ruin of strangers.
If your stating your hopes as facts and information. Please stop. That’s all I ask. There are a ton of people that have been financially hurt by this situation by these individuals that have been fraudulent. Trying to spin this into a “hey we can still get our machines, follow me!” Is just in bad taste at this point. These designs are tainted….they were paid for by people that were duped out of their savings. Owning a food truck or a goonies should be the last thing on your minds right now. What you think if these ever come they won’t have been brought about by fraud? No.
Tainted.
Robert gave/relocated all of Deeproot Studios (utah-based) expensive vfx-capable computer systems and servers to FutureHouse Studios. (The company that is falsely claiming to have created the Food Truck and Merlin's Arcade animations. (History revisionists.)) Knowing how fast and loose Robert plays with his business and toys...i doubt he did this with the appropriate paperwork or protocols. I wonder if this equipment will be located by the feds and liquidated to pay back the victim's stolen money.
Quoted from iceman44:Suing him personally if he has anything to get.
Sorry. You're planning on suing him personally?
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Deeproot Studios org org chart (circa ?) courtesy of Kaneda and my best guess at who already left (if anyone is even still there) based on public info:
[quoted image][quoted image]
Well..I'm the "Steve Rigging" guy.
Quoted from Rarehero:So does that mean you’re “Level 3” on the Respect Chart?
This chart looks like a ponzi scheme. hahaha
Quoted from benheck:What were the Studios even trying to accomplish?
All those department heads just to make FOOD TRUCK animations?
I'll most likely be shedding a lot of light on this soon.
Quoted from pookycade:Scam of a pinball company -hold on a minute, I think they were just grossly incompetent.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Robert 100% believed he could do this and did not create this entire venture as a scam. He truly thought he could turn a profit.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Would you at least concede he knew all along he was stealing?
The pinball venture was true...and incompetent. There are two types of people in this world...makers...and non-makers. 80% of people are non-makers. To be honest, I myself am a maker.
Makers have respect for process, time, budgets, feasibility, tools, and compromises. Robert is not a maker. Jon...from what I have heard from Mr Heck, is not a maker. The studio management at Deeproot Studios...were not makers. Production companies do not need to be filled with makers. But they do need at least one in a key position.
I think Robert plays fast and loose. I imagine he has taken steps to ensure plausible deniability at every turn. This is what lawyers are good at, no? Yes, I imagine he knew.
Quoted from wcbrandes:Hows it possible to be dumber than I originally thought?
I assume that is not directed at me.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Again, sorry you left a good job to work for Robert. You never did say if you ended up at another job did you?
I realize that in this thread...I come across as some kind of scorned ex-employee that is shaking my fist at Deeproot. That couldn't be further from the truth. I was just trying to originally shed light on the wide gap between the financial confidence being communicated by ignorant peeps on this site and the furlough status of employees. If you listen to Kaneda's Robert interview (477 I think) Robert talks about my posting on the boards and about how i broke certain "covenants" with Deeproot. (Weird word choice Robert. The legal term is "agreements". )
Since I left Deeproot, I started my own successful animation studio here in Utah. (www.studiozubio.com). I am an animation industry Veteran. 8 Years at Sony Pictures, 9 Years at Dreamworks animation, 3 years at Google... 3 months at Deeproot.
We have had a meteoric first 2 years and are registered content-creator vendors for some big players in both the film and tech industry. My network is solid, and I have many contacts in the industry which have helped me attain lucrative work.
Other folks from Deeproot Studios were treated way more unfairly than I ever was, and were effected much worse by this company's gross mismanagement. Which is the primary reason I felt the need to straighten out some facts.
Quoted from JStoltz:Can I ask a dumb and probably irrelevant question? Why were you shown on the organization (I use this term begrudgingly) chart as Steve "Rigging?" Did they not have the decency to put your actual name on there, instead representing you as [First Name] [Technical Animation Role]?
I was surprised to see that image arise. I am not going to speak to the specifics of the general incompetence at the studio. But I think this little chart was more of an ego stroke than it was supposed to be helpful to anyone. I can unpack a lot from this one image, but I won't.
Quoted from JStoltz:Here's a better question than my previous one-- What was the rationalization for 'giving' this equipment away to FutureHouse? Does Robert have a stake in that company? The video assets created by you guys seem to be the only value that deeproot was able to generate while operating, so I have to assume he benefitted in some way by giving these away.. or did he sell them?
All I chose to say is: For being a lawyer...Robert sucks at drafting up employment agreements that protect his actual interests. And yes this is an answer to your question.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:They scary thing is that RM actually believed the SEC stuff would just blow over - saying that with the knowledge of what he knows he did
the guy must be dumb as sht
Sometimes a few of you guys sound like you have never heard of guilty people avoiding punishment.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Looks like we'll have to settle for TWISL for the meantime
https://www.secactions.com/this-week-in-securities-litigation-week-of-august-30-2021/[quoted image][quoted image]
The “Twislies” has a nice ring to it
Quoted from benheck:In a way Robert scammed himself.
His original sales goals for MG/RAZA/AIW were insane, something like 8k total units. Insanity, but I guess he believed his own BS?
So he takes money out of the till. "I can double this money and put back what I took before the boss notices it's gone!"
But now it's taking longer than he thought to develop a pin.
So he doubles down. Sunk cost fallacy. Spends more to shore up the original "investment" Gets even deeper in the hole and... Here we are.
maybe if more people had died in the last few years...the fund would have been more lucrative.
Quoted from flynnibus:The inference here is they are blaming TWIP for 'knowing' and sitting on it. I guess...
It does feel completely bat-shit crazy that RM tells someone outside the business this... someone who is a reporter/news site... but it doesn't come out? Obviously we weren't there, but you gotta think that was news worthy??
But...how many people knew that Jeff inadvertently sat on this information? Seems like the obvious answer is two. Jeff...and RM.
1 week later
Quoted from benheck:A guy who makes movies about fast cars and then dies in one is a coincidence.
“The John Denver effect”
1 week later
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Every time I come back to this thread I’m amazed there’s still something new. I thought this would be a done deal. This is like King Kong (2005) it just keeps going long after we left the theatre.
We are at the "Eagles flying in ending" of Return of the King. We still have the Pajama Party Ending, the King coronation ending, back to the Shire Ending, Sam's Wedding Ending, Bilbo and Frodo's boat to elf heaven ending...
Quoted from fosaisu:Woah woah, leave LOTR out of this. That project had far too much quality and integrity to have even metaphorical applicability here. "Dude, Where's My Car?" would probably be more on-point.
I want to be the "SONY OF THE WEST".
-RM
Quoted from jawjaw:That's what gets me. Seems like there are far easier ways to scam money than building pinball machines.
It wasn't designed to be a scam. This is how bad things can go when someone with access to money makes bad financial decisions. Nothing more.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:I disagree. According to the SEC complaint he was using money the investors thought was being used for something else. That fits my definition of a scam even if he really intended to build pinball machines.
Well I can’t disagree with you there. I thought we were discussing the pinball side
of his dealings
Quoted from benheck:Ah! So they're going to go with the "insanity" defense...
It's the only thing that makes sense...
Quoted from frolic:Did the Utah studio ever "make" money? Like, was there a single client, or was it a floor full of artists making pinball animations and things for projects with no customer?
They had one or two small clients from neighboring industries. Nothing very long-lasting or lucrative though and nothing that was actually profitable.
1 week later
1 week later
2 weeks later
Quoted from thechakapakuni:I think what sunk DR was UL certification afterthought. When you announce you will be delivering pins before this step you are way out of your league in manufacturing.
[quoted image]
I think it’s quite obvious by now that UL certification was never an actual issue or obstacle. They never got that far.
2 weeks later
Quoted from benheck:Rumor has it Food Truck was completed...
Somebody has to make a Fyre Fest-like doco of this...
Define “completed”
Quoted from BillySastard:Deeproot Sports and Entertainment? Did I miss that from before?
What was that supposed to be?
Probably the box seats at the Utah jazz game my family sat in. Robert gave the tickets to employees
3 weeks later
Quoted from DudeRegular:Did the farewell dinosaur thing get brought to light yet?
Blueberry can fill you in on that I think. Not much substance there. Regarding the document above, it is of note that Robert/Deeproot did send the majority of the expensive workstations and render farm nodes to a different location before the shiz hit the fan. Those had a value of upwards of 100k.
Quoted from mbeardsley:He better not have...that in itself would likely be a crime.
You can't just take corporate assets for yourself, especially if the corporation is about to declare bankruptcy.
It ties into the farewell dinosaur venture. After the closure of the Utah office, it is my understanding that Robert “distributed“ the lion share of the computer workstations and render nodes to a company called “FutureHouse Studios”. Again it is my understanding that this was done because Robert could not afford to break some of the horribly written contracts to one of his senior employees.
So he had to negotiate.
Quoted from Jvspin:Makes sense to me, promise the moon to hook them. Threaten to sue to keep them.
When somebody brings NOTHING to the table...they have to make promises to allure a certain caliber of talent.
2 weeks later
Quoted from brucipher:Nordman is with American Pinball now, right? If so, maybe we'll see something similar...
Hahaha not possible
2 weeks later
Quoted from mbeardsley:On page 3, they say they have $41K worth of pinball machines, but on page 11 they say they have $78K worth of pinball machines.
I would venture to guess that Robert purchased his home pinball collection as a business expense. So there are many many BW and Stern machines in the air.
2 months later
Quoted from iceman44:Now I realize
Realizing truth two years ago when I messaged you truth would have been…good.
2 weeks later
Quoted from vdojaq:They were trying to figure out how to make it turn with the harnesses they would need for everything without it all getting tangled or twisted up.
Any good member of the R2-D2 astromech builders club (like myself) could have told them how to do that. 
2 months later
Quoted from greatwichjohn:people know my history of being broke now (no money).
Well there goes the drunk posting theory. You can’t be drunk if you can’t afford booze. The journey towards understanding GWJ continues…
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Stuff is happening with more players later this year into the market. Maybe some Deeproot Pinball stuff & maybe Jpop has a new home.
Troll.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Have a listen at the end of the show: https://funwithbonus.com/the-super-awesome-pinball-show-fix-and-mcquaid/
“And Fix address untruths spread by a cancerous podcaster”.
Haha is that regarding K-man? Seriously? Is this the kind of crap he deals with?
Yeah I think I’ll add this podcast to the list of the many podcasts I chose not to listen to…cause they are …. just noise.
He’s not cancerous…unless you’re a pinball machine manufacturer that doesn’t run a above-board business….or a distributor that doesn’t hold companies accountable.
Quoted from greatwichjohn:But pinball is hot. More players want to jump into the pool. Not just USA, but worldwide. Higher prices for games is likely leading the way.
Newsflash. Prices have come down in the last month.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from Beechwood:If he has a viable business model
If he has an experienced team in place
If he has adequate funding
If he has excellent managerial skills
If he has large amounts of time and energy to put towards a project
But yeah “no problems”!
Quoted from greatwichjohn:Stuff was going on which I have clearly stated
Yeah. That’s not exactly what you are known for. Quite the opposite in fact.
Quoted from clempo:Head over https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/moby-dick-let-s-talk-whales-and-whale-watching for his latest endeavor.
You will hear about sold repro business, bankruptcy, pension, beer, name dropping, and one more unfeasible plan.
Boo. You lose points for sharing the link here.
Quoted from homebrood:That's the thread all this talk belongs in. Not here!
It belongs solely and John‘s head.
3 months later
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