(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

3 years ago

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Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (2 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (1 year ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (1 year ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (1 year ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (1 year ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (1 year ago)

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#103 3 years ago
Quoted from bkbirge:

Apparently there's a fine line between confidence and Dunning-Kruger. Great interview though, nice to read a company interview that isn't a soft pedal.

This dunning-Kruger namecheck made my day. Sums it up to a T.

#104 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The more I think about it, the more I'm dumbfounded that these guys wanted to work with and associate with JPOP.
Personally, I have 3-4 game designs sketched out. I'm sure most enthusiasts have doodled some design of their own. It's not that hard to find someone with ideas. If anyone wanders into the homebrew forums here or on other pinball sites, there is a remarkable abundance of talent and interesting designs.
Deeproot could have easily avoided all the unnecessary baggage that came with JPOP. Yet the minute they discovered what a hot potato he was, they doubled down?
And then left the victims who decided to do something about their predicament completely out in the cold?
I'm certainly not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from these guys.

The owner is alleged to be an insurance scammer, isn’t he ? This is just a place for him to park losses for tax avoidance. No machine will ever come out of that office

1 month later
#187 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Is there a single "legend" in pinball built upon so little? We are talking about a small handful of games, from decades ago.

Who had to be bailed out by several other designers on *every* game

#195 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The formula DIDN'T produce masterpieces. His games are for the most part poorly regarded by serious players. They are flawed games that some find gorgeous and some find incredibly tacky, with ridiculous, problem-ridden development cycles and BOMs that helped put Williams out of the pinball business.
People need to stop backing this horse already. The most spectacular failure in pinball history is Jpop's true legacy and most of us are completely sick of this horseshit.

ToM is all right!

#240 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Steve Ritchie:
STEVE: Oh, World Cup. World Cup was taken over.
MARK: It wasn't a bad pin, it's still all right, actually we still operate it.
STEVE: In the end it turned out to be pretty Ok, but in the beginning it was handled by a newbie. The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else.
MARK: Did this happen very often?
STEVE: Actually it never happened before unless somebody died or got sick.
MARK: Did he abandon the project or did he just get the sack?
STEVE: Neither. He cooperated, learned and latter did Theatre of Magic and some other really good work. But when he first came in he thought he just knew everything about making pinballs and it is just not that kind of thing. You have to live it for a long time, you must have an affinity for mechanicals and you have to be able to work with other people.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it...

#276 3 years ago

Well this is the last deep root post we’ll see around here for a while. The tax dodge is in full effect!!

#346 3 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

Am I the only one here that's reading between the lines that deeproot is using the law as a weapon and bullying/strong arming apple juice,zombie yeti, American pinball and anyone/everyone else they can. Also stealing Ben heck's bible adventures theme?
I can't be the only one here that sees this.

It seems the machine is just getting started up. Shall we gear up for a patent troll situation? Personally, I think this is a way to spend/pocket money so their insurance company doesn’t officially make a profit, but what do I know?

#376 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John has wanted to do a Copperfield for years. Don't be surprised if his Houdini is repurposed. Not hard to come up with another magic theme.

That’s what ToM is (er, was). Getting a Copperfield license may be a bit creepy now that he’s apparently been outed as a pedo rapist

#392 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

He's had unsubstantiated allegations against him. One of his accusers has been charged with making false claims against another man. http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/01/26/copperfield.accuser/index.html

That’s a different person

#393 3 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

Our only response to AP's post is that their statements are not true, they contradict their attorney's private statements, they contradict the contract they voluntarily drafted and entered into with John, and (as to the trademark) appear to contradict federal law. We are proceeding with John's original Houdini design but not the Houdini name; which is consistent with our prior statement.

Box of lights: 10k by Christmas!!

1 week later
#427 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You can say 'F this' and take nothing.. but keep your right to sue the guy and company with no assets and enough flip flops now to make it difficult to collect anything
You can sign up for a promise of discounts on deeproot games
... And at the end if you don't like the deeproot games, you can walk away... and depending on your 'tier' will dictate what relief you would have.
It's basically a tease for huge value on vaporware to lock in people waiving any claims against Popadeuce.
If deeproot fails to deliver... you get your money back (but they'll never let this happen)
If you don't like deeproot's games... if you were in for <5k.. you can get 50% of your money back AFTER the 'delivery date'. Those that put more money in the pot... you would be eligible for that money back (again after the delivery date).
The model is setup to encourage new deposits... with a promise of no risk.
But you know nothing about what games they are delivering... they've made zero games yet plan to be delivering 'multiple' games in less than 18months.
You also stand to be in the same situation you were with zidware... money or things owed to you, with potentially no way to collect.
They are selling promises in exchange for you signing away your claims against Popadeuce. The flip side is... 'something' even promises is still better than 'nothing'. But you get to ride the wave for another 12-18months

Is “delivery date” ever defined? They could just never deliver anything and keep half the money free and clear.

#438 3 years ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I don't think they are asking for money until the "delivery day". My only fear at this point is that somehow signing this contract could eliminate any legal leverage current customers might have against John / Zidware. Obviously if deeproot comes through with their promises, games "designed and manufactured similar to the commonly known Williams/Bally/Zidware standards", that will likely not be an issue. Though, I'd question tossing Zidware into the list. I just want to know what happens if they fail to meet that "similar to" standard. Further, I would like to know what happens if deeproot fails, as in, they fail to produce the machines, nor have the capitol to refund deposits. I'm assuming this would make this new contract null and void, but I just don't want to see anyone loose there legal leverage.

Keep in mind the owner of deeproot IS AN ATTORNEY. There's a lot of language one can put into a contract that looks benign, but which wipes out any actual meaning. I've not read the thing in depth, but caveat empor.

#514 3 years ago

I do have to say incorporating AR makes a LOT of sense, especially when we look at all the screens being added to games. You might say that DI’s theater and the Ghostbusters EctoGoggles are AR; this is a great way to merge technology with pinball and really bring things forward a couple of years, without just jumping to VR completely; it’s just too fake and gross (see Sony’s pinkeye debacle)

#563 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

to be fair, I don't see video playing on the cutting.. For all we know only the luminescent is working. If that is in fact true, I'd be really curious what a 2 foot x 3 foot sheet of OLED costs. It's one thing to manufacture flexible phone displays, it's another to scale that up for giant TV's (or in this case, multimorphic display without compromising where mechs can get placed or how those mechs are controlled with wires).

The yield is incredibly low - lots of dead pixels still; it is still very costly to get a fully working rectangular display. Adding in these cuts and flexibility.. yikes

1 week later
#585 3 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

You can buy a 55” OLED TV for like 800 bucks

800x2 you mean. The 55" budget OLED made by LG is $1600, which is THE cheapest one ever. It was $1400 on black friday last year

1 week later
#644 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Thats cool. I am too actually. Not sure why Deeproot gets so much hate, but if they help get you guys paid back or a game, shouldn't we all be pulling for them?

Absolutely! But because of all the prior fiascos, people are going to be skeptical until games and/or checks start coming out. Right now it's all talk.. which is all that ever came from JPop. And Heighway & DP arent' much further along yet...

#651 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm hardly a Heighway cheerleader, my frustrations are pretty public, but there are over 100 Aliens shipped, and however many Full Throttles, maybe less than that, but still a real game you could actually play. The company is struggling, their communication sucks, they're constantly digging out of the hole Andrew left them, and I'm not blaming anyone for being frustrated with them too. But games have shipped, the code is real (that's a big one), I don't think they belong next to vaporware.

It's not that I want anyone to get boned, I have friends who lost money with Jpop. But I have a tough love approach to it personally. People took a risk, they got conned, and they lost their money. It sucks. For most people it wasn't a huge sum, but legit thousands. I just don't really think the lesson should be "don't worry, someone will bail you out" and then Jpop gets to have a job again. He should never get to work in the industry again, instead of being enabled. That's my perspective at least.
I'm not losing sleep over it, and if someone is crazy enough to try and take on his debt and make his customers whole I can't be mad about that part. I hope it turns out well.

Can’t argue with any of that .

#684 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Trusting Jpop was stupid in hindsight
I own it and cut my pmts off early on
I fully paid for TBL though because you bought in that expo Aurich with those Dutch dipshits
Thank the lord Philgate happened shortly thereafter
We all should own our stupid mistakes. I have no problem with it.
As for Alien, only have $1500 into that shitshow
Fast forward, nobody is getting Fed on pre pay model anymore. So that’s a good thing
Live and learn

wait, what was Philgate?

#696 3 years ago

Not sure what’s scarier - JPop with a light saber (cattle prod?!?) or the height of his pants.

#712 3 years ago

That is damn hilarious

#729 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Dude every time I read your posts I think, “Is this a bot or a genius?”

All bad writers are in love with the epic.

1 month later
#796 3 years ago

Come on, guys.. Deeproot was founded by an attorney. At least half of you have to be smart enough to know that the majority will be legally and definitively screwed by complete means of technicality roulette - minus a few lucky handful to make the whole thing look legit.

#834 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Supposed to see 5 different model games at Texas Pinball Festival 2019 and all available for purchase with no wait time. That's my recollection and I would feel better if Robert or someone can confirm or correct me.


1 month later
#875 2 years ago

oh man what the heck now?!

#919 2 years ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

panzerfreak - I will only address the audio work: DR is 'paying the cost to be the boss' in this regard. It is my intention for DR machines to have my best work and they have already hired another full-time audio guy. Let's see....how many other pinball companies have one full-time audio guy? That would be none. So DR is addressing what it takes to have a great audio package associated with each DR title. There are also other exciting audio related developments that NDA and digression prevent me from revealing. Let's just say that they are very cool.
The time between now and March will be hard for all of us. For DR it will be hard work to get to the reveal with Robert's vision intact and for the community it will be hard to wait.
I couldn't do anything without a substantial amount of optimism and I have high hopes for DR.

This is really great to hear - audio is SIGNIFICANTLY deficient in all machines; we really have to go above and beyond to improve on things that are really basic at this point. AP's Houdini has a next-step-up audio component, with a dedicated serious amp, and the 6-speaker array, but the sound package is themed as to sound "old-timey" and doesn't show off the bombastics the sound system is able to produce. Also, no woofer. Stern's Iron Maiden should have an extreme, amazing aound system (I think the LE has something nicer than the Premiums) but the sound on that game is actually pretty poor, considering. This is definitely a positive development.

#978 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

A resin playfield is a big innovation as it won't dimple and it lends itself to multiple surface types. They don't need to worry about whether 8 ply or 12 ply walnut is good enough and whether their source for blanks is consistent. A flat playfield could include an area with raised mounds and craters like the moon's surface.
Other possible design elements - use air to move the ball via suctioning instead of a vertical mounted magnet. I'd like to see magnets deployed in place of all coils, vuks, flippers and slingshots. Doing that and swapping arm and rollover switches with optos would kill their need for the common playfield parts used today. Ok maybe keep the flippers,but everything else has got to go. Poured material is probably easier to embed and attach wire forms and ramps to also. I hope they add a loop ramp and corkscrew ramp to their standard repertoire and that they raise playfield glass height to allow balls to be launched from end of pf to the other. Could we see a catapult launch the ball 50 inches? I'm serious, can we see a catapult launch the ball 50 inches and a magnet grab it, please?
All of these would combine to simplify DR's manufacturing process and Operators would see lower operating cost, minimum maintenance and games that work. But innovation costs more money than the traditional way to do things until you implement in volume. For that reason DR won't be producing many $3.5k games. But if their pins are fun and worth the cost, they can meet their objectives and maybe they will succeed. What other innovations could DR's pinball future hold?

I’m curious about the weight factor when using resin or an epoxy composite - I have some guitars made from a similar substance and they are HEEEEEAVY!! when we have 350 pound games coming and going from JJP, an additional heavy play field is a bit of a concern. One thing though, it definitely will never dimple or crack from play.

2 weeks later
#1043 2 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Citations please, or I call bullshit.
Those batteries have a massive lifecycle - they're expected to be used for decades after they're taken out of the car for other uses.

I refer to the highly liberal-leaning Forbes magazine, which says the footprint of manufacturing the car (slightly more than the manufacture of a traditional petroleum engine) is dramatically and several-orders-of-magnitude outweighed by the CO2 savings of not using gas to power the car over its lifetime.

#1046 2 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

Oh, that rag. Their conclusions are debunked here, I assume you will trust Popular Mechanics as a fair source:
Back to the topic of deeproot, I for one hope they do great stuff and shake the industry up.
The only hard limit I can think of is the software. Throwing people at the software side of the problem will just make it take longer.
Does anyone know if they're using something like P-ROC or developing their own system from scratch? AP is using P-ROC, aren't they?

Awesome link; that supports the Forbes article

Fully agree on the software front. Yes, AP is using P-roc. Makes total sense to me to move to a common platform - my only tiny complaint about P-ROC is the boot time. Otherwise it is pretty easy to develop against and very lightweight which is awesome!

#1054 2 years ago
Quoted from bob_e:

JPOP customers or Victims ???

Same thing, isn’t it?

#1057 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

If nothing else, this could end up being one big tax write off for deeproot.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

#1088 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Reminds me of the underwear gnome episode of South Park...

Shamelessly stolen from Linux computer forums of the 90s

#1093 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I thought it was trying to provoke.
Heighway, Kevin Kulek, Jpop all took money from people and failed to deliver games. Most knew exactly what they were doing and still continued along. Nuff said.

I’m inferring that you are saying they knew exactly what they were doing in taking people’s money... not in delivering games, because they sure as hell didn’t know what they were doing in terms of getting games delivered...

#1095 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Yes, that is correct. None of those three should ever be able to be associated with pinball again.

No argument here

#1140 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

No totally different design. If DP wants to develop a magic themed pin, there is room for another, but market saturation might bite them in the ass. But when Josh was building Houdini he had to get a license so I can't see DR being able to pick the same license. Rethemed as David Copperfield or a David Blaine though, might breathe some fresh air into their design. Particularly challenging to building another Houdini pin are that his best known tricks are already captured by AP and the dialog and screens they provide are historically accurate and educational. Just doesn't make any sense to proceed on another Houdini. :pullingarabbitoutofmyhat:

Lance Burton!

#1146 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Well we've guessed 3 of the top 5 greatest magician already. Before you look, do you know he other two licenses?

I absolutely adore Penn & Teller, but even they would admit there are better magicians. Well known magicians? They are the top. Greatest magicians? Houdini, Copperfield, burton, Ricky Jay, Dai Vernon

#1147 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

IMO it wasn't *just* the fact that it was a broken, totally unworkable diorama ... it looked hideous.
Take a look at a picture of it. Cabinet and translite were fine (though I prefer the production model's seemless translite / screen integration). But, no offence to the artist - he was working to do what JPop wanted - the playfield and plastics looked awful.
Albeit I think Magic Girl looks like a complete dog's dinner. Others seem to disagree.

It looks fine.. but dated. It looks like it would have been a fantastic partner to TOTAN or TOM. Which obviously makes sense. But AP Houdini looks like it was made this year... much more restrained and dare I say classier

1 month later
#1419 2 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Meh, this guy seems like another pied piper to me.
[quoted image]

funny, in back-to-back posts you first complain about another pinsider's post turning the thread into a "general pinball thread" when it actually has some real information about the actual facility itself - and you follow it up with a complete troll know-it-all-post. Hey, is there an achievement for that?!

#1423 2 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

No I’m actually interested in icemans post you misunderstood me. I’m annoyed at all the people not talking about deeproot in the deeproot thread.

Aah, copy that. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

4 weeks later
#1461 2 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

After we had a chance to do a tour at deeproot last week, a deeproot article will be posted tomorrow morning!
It'll be one of the most interesting articles to ever appear on TWIP.
Obligatory teaser! We'll cover:
The Tour at deeproot
Is it "Pinball"?
The Break Room
deeproot Departments and Processes
- The Guts
- Displays/Animations/Rules/Storyboarding
- Playfield Designers
- Programming and Product Development
- Manufacturing
The Oval Room
Check it out tomorrow!

Uh oh... >> Is it "Pinball"?

#1464 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Lol. When were those 3 words used to describe any other pinball startup? Even the P3 qualifies as "pinball", no one contests that. I'm intrigued, but not sure in what sense.

Perhaps they are doing very nice VP tables. Better have multi-level transparent displays like I’ve been talking about

#1468 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

That's been my guess for months, based on their huge development team (in Utah?) and hardly any manufacturing discussion. And all this talk of "revolutionizing" pinball technology. And now Stern is going Oculus Rift?
I hope I'm wrong.

Me too. But luckily there’s JJP still. And AP. I’m sure Stern will continue to make real pinball

#1486 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Nope...it's Deadly Spawn...
[quoted image]

AWESOME!!!!!!! Man that should happen.

#1514 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I guess the slot machine guys are from another planet then?

(Replying to rubberducks) Yes we buy them for $280 for 25” ones. Costs an arm and a leg?

#1515 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Discussion has previously been about replacing or augmenting pf glass with it.
A 1.5" screen operating a 'hologram' isn't innovative or in any way game changing.
It's not really feasible or desirable to do much more than that in pinball.

Not sure If you are replying to me, but IMO we need to think more creatively. 2 (or ideally 3) levels of transparent screens will allow to “float” things above a playfield, yes. But what if the screen IS the playfield? You can create depth with a flat layer at bottom, a middle layer for plastics and lane guides, and a top layer for big toys, mechs, and ramps. There, 3D without goggles because it actually IS in 3 dimensions. 3D printer slicer software does this x 10,000 right now.

#1520 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Thinking creatively won't do anything. Pinball companies don't have R&amp;D budgets that run into the billions.
Per prior posts, neither current transparent LCDs nor OLEDs have fantastic light transmissions properties. Layering them would make it worse. Pixel responsiveness is bad on the LCDs. Low life time, expense and non-availability in large sizes of OLEDs rules them out.
Also, can you imagine how bad it'd be if you developed a fault with or suffered damage to one of the layers?
Deeproot (or anyone else) are right to look for savings and efficiencies where ever they can to reduce build costs and complication, but chasing unicorns is extremely unwise.

I hear ya, but I'm not sure where you're getting costs from. We buy panels of roughly the same size as a pin for about $1K each. So that's a cost per machine of $3,000 or so. Even if the final MSRP is 8K you're still in a good spot.

here's an example of an existing game that uses what I'm talking about. I don't know what this game is exactly, but the screen can be *entirely* full-color (which you don't really see in this video too well), or transparent. There's a little haze where it's not quite as clear as a window, and yes the colors aren't super bright (backlighting or angled sidelighting would help w/ this) :

#1522 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

That is a strawman logical fallacy. No one objects specifically to surface mount, they object to being forced to spend $350 for a new board instead of 30 cents for the failed component. If surface mount becomes as easy or cheap to repair as through hole is now customer objection will disappear.

With all due respect to Ben, who certainly does know what he is talking about; pinball machines do not need to be squeezed into tiny enclosures that fit in one’s pocket. But I doubt the surface mount thing is about selling $350 replacement boards - it’s probably just cheaper to have them made in the first place.

#1575 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Just sayin'!...........
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Joe Dante is a damn genius

#1581 2 years ago

Solar babies!!

#1610 2 years ago
Quoted from fishbone:

Could we stop the movie nostalgia marathon and return to talking about Deeproot?
Pretty please?
Thank you.

Sure! What deeproot news do you have?

1 month later
#1963 2 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Just searched on linkedin for deeproot tech and I count about 25 people stating they work there;. and that's only including Barry Oursler as game designer, JPop and others previously announced are not in that list. So I think his statement won't be far from the truth..
Some of the profiles (3D animators, story writer) give me the impression they're more like a software/games company than a pinball manufacturer so I'm really curious to what they will release.

Really seems like a sort of VR or virtual something is involved here, I think you are right

#1965 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Maybe it will end up being a multi-pronged approach. Maybe they will release a physical machine along with a digital machine (like Pinball FX3) at the same time...hit both markets.

Man, imagine a new machine released both physically and digitally at the same time. How would that do in the market? I imagine it might be of short-term interest, but for me it's back to the same thing - video game pinball vs real pinball? No brainer.

I do think there's a lot of creative opportunity for building using transparent LCD displays and dynamic digital interfaces (like P3 I guess), but man is it a lot of work. And I can say for *sure* that I really prefer the interactive, physical toys and mechs on the playfield to just another screen.

#1969 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Would it? they haven't taken any consumer money, and they're paying salaries of pinball people in the meantime. If they fail and fold up before taking money OUT of the hobby, I'm not sure it makes any difference at all.

at the very minimum, it's providing a way for some of the masters to stay paid from, and engaged by pinball. That in and of itself is pretty awesome, and will pay off in some way eventually, even if it's only one or two of them (please not JPOP) that emerge with a new game or idea. I recently listened to the Chris Granner interview on the Head2Head Podcast, and he talks about working for Zynga and not having worked on pinball for 10 or 15 years, which is very sad. He's got to go where the work is!

#2016 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I've been curious if fiberglass reinforced plywood would be a way to make playfields much more durable. This material is what is commonly used in trailers and box trucks for the transportstion industry. There is a thin layer of fiberglass laminated to a plywood substrate. The scoops would still wear, but I would think with the traditional screen printing and a clear coat, this stuff would be extremely durable over traditional wood over the rest of the playfield.

That stuff is heavy as hell, isn’t it? There’s got to be a balance there. If it costs double to ship a game and you need 4 people to move it, it may be a challenge

#2029 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

My experience is it is the same as regular plywood...it just has a 1/32" or so skin of smooth fiberglass laminated to the top. My current employer actually has a division that makes this product...I should dig into it more and see what specs I can find on it.

Gotcha - I may be mixing it up with injected plywood then; sort of like pressure treated wood, although epoxy is pulled into wood pores using osmosis (i think...) super heavy stuff.

#2030 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Something one must keep in mind with a transparent LCD is that is can only block light, not create it. You'd have to make the inside cabinet very bright to act as a backlight.

This is obviously not an issue - have you seen PinStadium?!? seriously - IMO this could be used over say half the PF, with traditional glass still over it; you could change the game layout or hide the ball, with just a small number of lanes (or pins!) to trap the ball in concert with animations on the trans LCD

#2032 2 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Good point, but as an already-glasses wearer, I actively avoid 3D movies for that exact reason. Wearing glasses over my glasses has always been a big pain in the butt. They never quite fit right, and it’s super clunky.
3D was cool at Disney, but for movies, at least for me, it becomes uncomfortable to the point where it ends up removing me from the experience.

IMO Dialed In has a very interesting example - not 3D - but a unique integration of video with the Quantum Theater. Ghostbusters too? I think?

#2037 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

3D wasn't even part of the 4K Blu-Ray spec. It's dead.

3D isn't possible yet in 4k consumer players; it'll be back

#2040 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

3D isn't possible yet in 4k consumer players; it'll be back

Quoted from Sinestro:

It's not a matter of possibility....it was left out on purpose.

Not what I meant - it’s not in the UHD spec, but it will be back in some format. UHD supports HDR, the only-slightly-less-gut-wrenching-than-motion-smoothing feature, which is this cycle’s 3D. 3D will be back eventually in some future format

#2047 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Agreed 100% HDR and "True/Smooth Motion" are two completely separate things. HDR allows more colors on video to better capture all of the 35mm frame's glory.
True Motion is shit with a capital S.

see Ben's post

1 week later
#2228 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Magic Girl can not possibly be reviewed, categorized, critiqued, or other wise judged as a “good” game until it is finished and all mechs INSTALLED, programmed, and working, code is finished, and game is “complete”. Until then it is a flashy box of lights with some ZY artwork on it. That IP and $5 will get you a vinte latte at Starbucks, not much else.
I get excited about a pinball company when they bring a machine to the table and I can play it, like API, CGC, and most of the others trying to break into the market. I personally think deeproot shot their wad by making big noises and promises and missing their date for a big reveal at TPF. With the ammo in their quiver, they should have kept quiet, built their 5 machines, and then just showed up at the next biggest show when they were ready... drop 3 or 4 game titles onto the floor of the show, and put up pictures of them making 15 sample games of each title. Then say we are open for business, here are the first offerings from our company, we are taking orders for all of them, production starts yesterday, we have 5 machines of each title ready to ship today.
That would have blown us all out of the water, would have alleviated any JPop bad publicity, and then they could eventually offer to make people whole on zidware by giving a 50% discount on enough titles to make them whole... no money down to order.
But I am not a marketing genius... and what do I know? Not my circus, not my monkeys. And I am sure this approach has a billion flaws or cracks someone will immediately point out.

Did Magic Girl actually have *missing* mechs? I know it had a shot or two that was not possible to make - blocked or something - and I know about the levitating ball failure. But were there other mechs missing? Wow.

#2230 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Not sure how many mechs or just the levitating ball one (the original discription after getting the machine was dangling wires and plug, and missing mech?), but can we agree not complete by any stretch of the imagination? That was my real point there.

That’s kinda what I thought - that sounded like new info. No argument it was an incomplete box of lights

1 month later
#2306 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm pretty psyched about this game.
SHould the full-size Flux Capacitor go in the backglass? Or a smaller one on the playfield?
I'm guessing Biff sits this one out and all the callout money goes to Chris Lloyd, which is fine with me. he rules.

Biff may be up for it! Tom F Wilson has warmed up to Biff in the last couple years (finally!) he got enough going on outside BTTF he didn’t feel as pigeonholed

#2326 2 years ago
Quoted from deeprootmatt:

So i want to take a minute here to give my own personal account and experience working with Jpop. I figure a sort of third party opinion from someone who has been working closely with him over the last 1.5 years might be of interest. Again, this is my own personal opinion.
I will also preface this message with this: I get it. He screwed up. A lot of people here are upset. And i completely understand that. I will continue to stay out of that as much as i can and focus on what I can do: doing my part in bringing about success for deeproot.
John has been, and continues to be a great friend. He is always able to provide valuable insight into whatever aspect I am working on. The amazing conversations we have had are numerous, and his passion for pinball is absolutely contagious. I have now been brought into the pinball world i never knew existed.. and its amazing! I have learned more over the last 1.5 years than I could have ever imagined and John has had a big part in that. So I wanted to take this moment to share this with you guys, and take it as you will.
Also, I hate to leave out the other amazing people I get to work with as John is just one of MANY people at deeproot. All of us here are REALLY excited for what is to come, and it is coming!

Cool, glad JPop is a great office guy. Soo... are you guys going to you know.. make a pinball machine eventually?

#2337 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

He has beyond a boss, he has a boss who's dumping a shit ton of his money in this company, and a bunch from investors. I guarantee there are daily morning status update meetings going on over there.

Funny, since you mentioned investors- I’ve been watching that show Ozark and it occurred to me that they should add a pinball machine company to their portfolio on season 3... after the Heighway debacle, seems like a perfect fit!

#2341 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I definitely get the anger and hate, I personally lost a lot to the whole ordeal.
However, I don't think JPop should continue to be chastised so much. He definitely screwed up, and obviously has issues, but he's never thrown his hands up and said fuck it. He's continued to look for some kind of solution to get what he's promised done. He could have very easily just done what SkitB, Heighway, VonnieD, and Dutch have done and just walked away. He continued to try to get the games built though, to the point of getting two different, new pinball manufacturers involved.
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
Quality Board Work - In Home Service

I may be talking out of school here, but didn’t Heighway, SkitB, DutchP all face lawsuits which kinda forced their hand ?

#2343 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

So did JPop.
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
Quality Board Work - In Home Service

Aaah, gotcha. Yikes

#2366 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Not to their characters, but they own the rights to their likeness.

Correct. You can license a character, but unless you also license the actor's face, it needs to look like someone else. Funny though this doesn't work like that in voiceover acting. You can copy
Someone's voice all day long and you don't owe them a dime. (Which, to be clear, is a good thing)

#2372 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Not entirely true. A radio commercial was run here with an Arnold impersonator. They had to remove it.

Arnold is notoriously protective of his voice - and he has the money to make problems for whomever is mimicking him. The legal part is not the voice itself, but the idea that Arnold himself may have been misconstrued as endorsing the product is what was legally defendable.

Also, his voice and accent taken together is so distinctive that it would be easier to make the case that people would be confused it was actually him, vs say Don LaFontaine (“in a world...”), who was and still is constantly mimicked when he was alive

#2373 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Usually For parody with limits... but not to simply copy and infer endorsement. In most areas their voice is still covered by right of publicity and copyright.

It is exclusively that endorsement may be misconstrued. Voice is not protected by trademark or likeness rights at all. I’ve done tons of soundalike ads and other gigs that bear no risk. Half of voice acting is copying people’s voices in the first place!

4 weeks later
#2440 2 years ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

Ever tried Popeye? It is not very well liked and one of the reasons is its "Eco" theme.

What a stupid reason not to like a game. How does it shoot?

#2443 2 years ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

My wide body ranking in descending order: TZ, JD, Popeye, DM, RS, Rosanne Barr.

Damn, Popeye is at least on top of Demo Man!

#2467 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Not necessarily agreeing with you with the rest but yes, with an expected launch this week that had to be blown off and not having even an estimate for the new launch, there's whole lot of expenses and no income for a whole while longer. - I hope they can shoulder that.

You guys aren’t really still thinking this is a real company are you ?

#2471 2 years ago

Lol just had a round of Dangerfield jokes at work. I hope this isn’t a mess, I want to believe ...

#2473 2 years ago
Quoted from insx:

"I couldn't care less" means that I do not care at all. Only (some) Americans do not understand this.

While I agree with this from a logical perspective, idioms simply don’t seem to require logic. Less logical would be to ignore the (clearly understood) intent of the phrase.

#2496 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Except Steve Bowden gave up his teaching career to move to texas and go work for DR. This is the part that worries me. People like to think "What's the harm in Andrew Heighway/JPOP/etc blowing money", but there's always collateral damage. AppleJuice not getting paid for coding work. The game designer for Heighway who was unpaid and basically made broke. There's always collateral damage when you look behind the big personalities. When DR fails, it will mess over a lot of people, like the investors in Robert's funds, which will then make it harder for pinball manufacturers in the future to raise capital.
I almost immediately thought this was a fraud because THEY ARE SPONSORING EVENTS. A company with zero cash flow and nothing but expenses is sponsoring Pinburgh and otherwise spending money on shit they shouldn't. Reminded me of Dutch Pinball throwing a boozy party with hired models. Pinball is a low margin item, hand manufactured in the USA where labor is notoriously expensive. IMHO If you want to be successful as a pinball manufacturer you need to count every penny to be profitable, especially in the early stages where you have to outlay large expenses (equipment, leases, employees, 1 year lead time on product development) without selling anything just yet. Sponsoring events to 'build brand awareness' is the kind of marketing bullshit people think you need, but let's face it: you can post on pinside you're making a game and pinside will shower you with attention until the games come out.
Oh, and then don't even get me started on taking on JPOP's liabilities and former customers. How that would ever be a profitable move is beyond me.

Remember, the founder’s main business is allegedly in selling questionable insurance products, I am sure he knows exactly what he’s doing. It just may not be related to pinball

#2498 2 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Sure, you are right, there will be collateral damage, but any of these pinball veterans (whether they have worked in pinball before, or have been a part of and followed the pinball community for the last 5 years or so) should know to do their homework on a new pinball startup. I feel for the likes of AppleJuice and the Heighway guy, but we know those stories now, and anyone accepting a job with a pinball startup have lessons they should have learned. There is a risk involved with taking employment with any startup, regardless of industry. Again, I am not a cheerleader for deeproot. They have a lot to prove and could very well fail just like the many other recent pinball startups. But at least they are not scamming consumers out of their money like pretty much every other recent startup that failed.

Here’s to hoping they follow through! It’s hard without anything to look at whatsoever. Even JPop had art by this time ..

#2509 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Jpop had art because he ripped off the real artist. Zombie Yeti.

Oh damn. That story just keeps getting worse and worse..

#2511 2 years ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

Will Deeproot be at TPF?
Hoping to get Barry Oursler's autograph?

No, they won't. It's been covered many pages back - they bailed what seems like several months ago

#2521 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

They opted to delay the unveil of games not sure that means the will not Be there as a show sponsor. Personally looking forward to whatever/whenever they release. Should be interesting.

True, true - I was referring to them being there as a vendor

#2545 2 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

So you Texas Pinballers come across this?
Interesting is an understatement.[quoted image]

It was posted in another thread, but.. yeah. Big statement. Hopefully it’s not John P.’s own truck.. LOL

2 weeks later
#2594 2 years ago
Quoted from amkoepfer:

I personally wouldnt want to swap playfields, id want a cab for each. Possibly location play, but how many operators would want to do conversions

I get that this is potentially a great idea - but as Levi pointed out, who cares? If you have the space to store extra playfields, which are 1/3 the size of the whole machine, why wouldn’t you just leave them up and playable? It IS a good idea for ops IMO, except now you have these unprotected playfields that have to be carefully stored.

If the glass is somehow a transparent LCD
Screen that changes how the playfield and mechs look, then I’d be more on board. Still skeptical. But maybe this is just an idea they are sitting on; it may never materialise

#2645 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Keep in mind a transparent LCD glass can only darken things it can't add light. Unless it's OLED but that would be unaffordable at this time.
Also you'd have to use a camera to track the players head and eyes to render the correct perspective.

I don’t understand why this is a problem. Arcade redemption games use them just fine, and they are backlit, which would be trivial in a pinball cabinet

2 weeks later
#2983 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

His games suck ass.
The best one he ever made he didn't even finish (World Cup Soccer - thanks to whomever at Williams took that project over).
There's never been a single more overrated "classic" pinball designer than Jpop. I do not and never will understand the cult.

Joe Balcer, methinks?

#3037 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

I can help arrange that!
—Robert, dT

Hoo boy, seems risky

#3131 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Could we please keep this thread on topic? This thread should be about deeproot and any associated updates, reveals, etc. This thread has in large part turned into a thread about new technology that could be incorporated into pinball. I feel there is plenty to discuss regarding new pinball technology to warrant its own thread. Just my thoughts and very much looking forward to what deeproot has to offer...best of luck to them...thanks!

These posts are at least keeping the thread up on the site - it's not like there's a lot of DR news to discuss!

2 weeks later
#3404 2 years ago
Quoted from halflip87:

Honestly guys, every time I visit this thread I keep scrolling until I see the deeproot logo and if I don't, I just back out. Sooooo much fluff and no substance. Continue your discussion but lord, I can't wait for an official announcement.

Cool story, bro!

#3405 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

We can bet with the payment to charity. I've not been checking this thread lately as I'm not surprised by the missed deadlines.

Super class response. Hank is good people

2 weeks later
#3538 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

You say you walk away from people "insulting" JJP.
Next thing is you "insult" JJP as a company that doesn't get their act together.
I think that's funny (and a good representation of pinsiders double standards while with that not meaning to offend you).

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

You say you walk away from people "insulting" JJP.
Next thing is you "insult" JJP as a company that doesn't get their act together.
I think that's funny (and a good representation of pinsiders double standards while with that not meaning to offend you).

He was being sarcastic, throwing deeproot’s words back at them. His statement was intended as supportive of JJP. He probably should have put quotation marks around the offending phrase.

#3556 1 year ago
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:

I’m fairly new to pinball and I live about 3 miles away from DeepRoot here in San Antonio. I have to say as a San Antonioian I hope DeepRoot Pinball becomes a viable pinball company. I too have some concerns about the history of Jpop and their not meeting their deadline at the Texas Pinball Festival. The more sinister side of me is saying that DeepRoot pinball is just a way for an investment firm to show a loss on a pet project for tax reasons. Hire Jpop to claim more losses.
Anyways, I hope my sinister side is incorrect.
On the local pinball front here it has been nice to play with some of the top pinball players now employed by DR during league play and tournaments.
We see DeepRoot employees at the local pinball spots occasionally.
It’s nice that the top players are here in San Antonio even though I may never again have a chance of setting a high score on a machine! Lol.
As a new to pinball person my wife and I are hopefully bringing home our first machine once it’s shopped by a local tech.
We will then be in the market for our second machine of which we have already set aside some money for. I think it would be great if DeepRoot instead or in addition to being so innovative with new technologies would also be innovative on their prices and set the bar for new pin ownership within the reach of more people. Pinball is rising like a Phoenix again so why not offer a lower cost option to the market in addition to the innovative engineering.
Anyways that is my 2 cents for what it’s worth.

IMO: Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I genuinely hope I am wrong.

2 weeks later
#3718 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

thyme weights four know juan.


#3749 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

How does that play into tax deductions?

Deep root isn’t the only company the owner is involved with, and that would appear on his taxes

#3785 1 year ago

Well, there goes the thread count!

#3834 1 year ago
Quoted from riverinapinball:

The art is good, but for pinheads it needs to be amazing!

Appears to be true - just read through all the complaining in the Oktoberfest thread!

1 week later
#3921 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You really just can't help yourself can you?
How about this one: a rolling stone gathers no moss.

I’ll play: those who live in glass houses should not throw stones

#3922 1 year ago

Here’s another:

“It's no use locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. “

Bonus proverb: “Laugh and the world laughs with you; weep and you weep alone.”

(I actually hate that one, lol! That guy must have had no friends)

#4061 1 year ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

I have uncrated every game since Pinbot. I will say Stern still is the champs at packing a game into a box. I have seen one NIB roll off of a semi truck at a freight terminal. Hit the ground. Roll. Game was still perfect. JJP seem to pack really well too. Spooky could use some work in this area. Multimorphic has improved a lot from the start when I got the first unit until now. Heighway was not good at packing. Dutch was not great either. Funny but I've never unboxed a CGC, you would have to ask one of our techs.
I remember a few issues with 90s games coming out of the box, nothing major. I've probably opened over 100 Williams games. Plus a lot of the populated fields for early ss held up well also.
What is your experience Llyod?

AP’s packing has them all beat. Take off the top, game slides out on 2 skids with handles so you can pull everything by hand. Ridiculously simple. Stand on end, cut 2 heavy duty ties, legs, power, balls, you’re playing a game.

#4068 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

No, I believe he actually meant it. If it would have been you or I, I would think he was joking, but since Ben has a history with Jpoop, it was a real threat.

And apparently it worked. I haven’t seen Ben posting too much around these parts recently. Too bad

3 weeks later
#4266 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

If he/ they do the next post is:
"Oh, they have nothing to show but some pretty pictures to lure us into spending money!!!"
And the next:
"But the didn't take any preorder money!"
"I h8 them and will never buy anything of them because Jpoop is an idiot!"
"But they try to make us whole!"
"You should/ shouldn't have participated in the class action lawsuit!"
"Let's talk about interpunctuation!"
What I want to say is:
Whatever Robert does or don't he can only fail until the games are ready.
So best stick to the announcement that was made and we get to see somethin until November and (ideally) hold up with the original goal that games will be ready to ship within 2 weeks after announcement.

That pretty much sums up this thread! We should sticky it so people don’t have to read the whole thing. You forgot one step though, where Robert comes out of hiding and accuses someone of practicing law without a degree!

#4309 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Friend of mine received his goodwill money from Deeproot today. He’s not on Pinside so figure I’d share his news.

Interesting. There are a LOT of people on pinside who signed up, so they should be receiving similar payoffs soon

#4314 1 year ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

And how exactly do you know this to be a fact?
For instance, I don't recall seeing a poll along the lines of, 'Are you part of the Goodwill claimants?'

I don’t - I shouldn’t have stated it as if it was fact. There’s been a lot of discussion on the site - I suppose I should have said “there seems to be a lot of people on the site...” what I was trying to get at was that I would expect to see others mentioning this soon.

#4357 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

He bailed jpop out by making takers agree to absolve jpop and zidware of their claims.
How do you get jpop to work for you and behave how you want? You bail him out. The agreement frees up the zidware assets to be freed up to be used (transfered, etc) without future concerns,

And the question certainly remains... “why???”

#4364 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Robert clearly thinks JPOP is some mastermind that just needs the right environment to produce... so he built that.


2 weeks later
#4605 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

My dream theme is Sledge Hammer!, and I hope that's one of the second games you have to choose from.

I loved this show, and I know it may have started as a joke that this should be a theme, but DAMN I am on board!

4 weeks later
#4956 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Why did Deeproot ( Robert ) go inactive a month ago?

Wait, what? Omg

#4959 1 year ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

The Popadiuk thread topped 486 pgs. This one's got a ways to go...
And Popadiuk didn't make a comment in that thread.

The gauntlet thrown..

#5001 1 year ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

It would have to be some type of ceramic. The cost of using something like pyrocarbon over wood would be off the charts...

And that seems so strange. Gerry is one of the nicest people in the industry. I’ve never met anyone that had an issue with him.

Perhaps he's the only one who actually reached out? Totally agree, from all my (remote) dealings with him and his overwhelmingly positive presence on the site, he seems to be an extraordinarily nice fellow.

#5008 1 year ago

That's a legendary outtake. a comic in the 80s had a whole routine about this exact commercial shoot. His name is Maurice LaMarche - but you may know him as "The Brain" from Pinky & The Brain, or Egon from Real Ghostbusters

#5043 1 year ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

From what I remember JJP used to trash Stern at shows when he was soliciting preorder money. Call the games stripped down, etc.
A lot of sales type people talk a big game because that’s what they do. I don’t like it, but it’s practically a stereotype with how common it is.

That is, unfortunately, a very effective tactic. Just look at politics - that is 100% sales. And look how much trashing they do. The funny thing is, JJP has the games to back it up now. But they have also established their own niche with the boutique games

#5053 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Umm...no, just no. They do make games. "Boutique"? Not a chance. Good grief...

Good grief: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/boutique.html

3 weeks later
#5107 1 year ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

On a new podcast, Christopher Franchi talked about how Deeproot wanted to work with him. Franchi then didn't hear from them and eventually went back to Stern.
According to Franchi, this pissed off Mueller who told Chris that he'll never work for Deeproot.

In my business, if a place ghosts you, then it’s kinda on them that you don’t work for them. It must be a nightmare working for a bunch of babies who get all mad like that

#5119 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

I'd love to hear what's up at the company. Even more I'd like to /see/ what's up.
The last public statement from the company shut down all the negative comments, at least in this thread, for over a month.

Also may have been the lack of any news or progress in any way..

#5140 1 year ago
Quoted from okgrak:

Anyone else question the physics of this shot? The center of gravity must be way out towards the elevated playfield.[quoted image]

The Capcom playfields are also capable
Of this already. Not sure who owns the patent on that, but just because the drawing looks like it’s hovering in the air doesn’t mean there’s not some perspiring owner holding it up in real life!

#5141 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

deeproot investor talking to his tax advisor-
"So how much of this can I write off anyway?"

Nailed it. Nailed it. Nailed it. 100%

#5167 1 year ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Better check your math

don't think so. that is 5 days

#5184 1 year ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Previous judges do not agree with you. These corporations just find another court and another judge until one works out for them. I don't give a shit what the public thinks about red soled shoes. He wasn't the first one to do it and should have no right to patent a color. Madness.

Quoted from Tranquilize:

Previous judges do not agree with you. These corporations just find another court and another judge until one works out for them. I don't give a shit what the public thinks about red soled shoes. He wasn't the first one to do it and should have no right to patent a color. Madness.

It’s not “patenting a color”, this is a trademark case.
Think of it like protecting your company logo

#5188 1 year ago

The dialing back is pretty remarkable

#5225 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I'm guessing you are in the minority on this one.

Oof. Those are some long odds... chance of new game 1:10000. Chance of lots of smoke & mirrors? 100%

1 week later
#5300 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I would hope so after the millions invested into the animations.

The first game is going to be called “Tax Shelter”

#5322 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I feel they have to show “something” but yeah it’s a head scratcher as to why they don’t have one complete game yet

Especially since AP had TWO games almost complete by this same time frame

#5369 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I love watching you guys parse this stuff out like it’s the Rosetta Stone. Reminds me of the days when our greatest minds were tearing apart every letter of the latest “stern of the Union” to decipher if a ghostbusters code update was coming this week.

LOL you mean last month?!

#5680 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Yes, my Full Throttle had that problem due to the lack of a stop at the end of the clear ramp. Unreliable rejects.
It looks like Deeproot does not have a stop (piece of rubber etc) at the end of their ramp either, making the loop a great idea.
My guess is that they preferred the clean tech look and adding a cut metal part which looks nice as well over a gob of rubber, right in sight.

I’m curious if that ball gate will hold up. The rubber softens the movement of the ball so it doesn’t eventually crack the ramp; without it (couldn’t they use translucent rubber/silicone?) it seems there would be a risk the ball would bend that metal stop with some awkward downward force. Depends on how thick it is, I guess.

On the flip side - Is there any risk of damaging the ball if it hits off center?

3 weeks later
#6841 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Those coils are way too powerful for LOTR. If you are happy then I guess that is all that matters. However, if you are interested, there is a better alternative, the APB coils:

Quoted from Fulltilt:

Thanks. That was a LONG time ago. I agree, they were powerful for sure but sure did make it great for hitting that ring shot! BAM!
After about 45 minutes on one of those LONG LOTR games, the Stern flipper coils seemed to just fade the hell away... Terry's fixed it.

FYI you will end up breaking some plastics eventually. Those coils work great - but they are definitely too strong for the game, and they change some of the shots. I can confirm from experience that the APB coils are perfectly balanced, and do not lose power after long games.

#6859 1 year ago

All part of the plan.

#6868 1 year ago

Companies need idea people, they need practical people, and they need money people.

jPop is an idea person - he’s the dreamer, the “visionary” if you choose to use that word. George Gomez is more of the practical side. He has to figure out HOW to make the idea person’s ideas into reality without bankrupting the company - or to tell him no. The money person (not sure who that is at Stern or DR) is not the person with the pocketbook, but the one whose job it is to manage the BOM and fixed costs, etc.

Al companies need these 3 distinct roles. It is exceedingly difficult to find a person who can do more than 1 of these roles (forget about all 3) and make a successful company work, because it requires mastery of multiple things, stepping outside yourself and getting out of the way of your own ego. Clearly JPop is not a money guy or a practical guy. GG definitely has great ideas too but his calling seems to be in the practical of getting the games out the door.

#6879 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

jPop is an idea person - he’s the dreamer (con man), the “visionary” (thief)

HAHA you say potato... LOL

2 weeks later
#6955 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

How can they release RAZA when they do not own the IP?

Who owns it? There certainly could be a licensing deal that would cover it. Game mechs would presumably be redesigned, lest they run afoul of patents (assuming said patents were even applied for)

#6974 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I’m really not sure what lesson you desperately want to think Stern is going to learn by watching deep root.
They already figured out that hiring Jpop to run your design department is a bad idea. What other lessons are there to be learned?

Don’t take on huge amounts of debt from a company whose ideas can’t be delivered upon?

#6990 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So WOZ...one of the most overstuffed pins in the history of pinball machines...isn't "roided out" enough for you?
This is why Deep Root has painted themselves into a corner. The people most excited, and who fell the hardest for their 3 years of nonstop "we'll blow your mind!!!!" sales pitch; these folks can never be satisfied.
I personally would be frightened of what a "WOZ on steroids" would be. Four upper playfields? 6 flippers? 5 magnets? Three 27 inch monitors and an 8 speaker surround system?
The electric bill alone would be enough to put many of us on to government assistance.

Your comment assumes the company is intending to actually make pinball machines or money in the first place.

#7000 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Amazon still doesn't make a profit...so...I mean...

OOOOH yes they do

1 week later
#7072 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Yeah same here. They missed the boat. If they had just released 1 pin in 2019 they would be on the map.
And while they don’t need to post or satisfy Pinside by any means, their communications are just horrible and complete garbage.
Meanwhile MOST of the reason Rick & Morty flew off the shelves is because of Scott. He continues to be the prime example of how to create new pinball in 2020. And he connects directly with his audience, something Deeproot has failed to do on any level.
I’ve yet to find anybody that has any issues with Scott & what he’s doing. Yet Deeproot is the complete opposite.
So yeah, if you don’t believe in the designer & company behind a pinball game, why the F would you ever be interested in buying one from them?
So yeah, the window for me being interested has long gone and past

They didn’t miss the boat. This was never about buyers, or enthusiasts, or even about getting JPOP fans whole. That was a wonderful side effect. But (if it’s all true) the recklessness of expenditure and the insane expectations make this all a fool’s errand. I don’t believe an attorney and insurance maven would expose himself so brazenly to such a money pit. This all smells foul. But what do I know? Maybe the other Deeproot-related ventures made a ton of money which needs to be Hollywood accounted for.

1 week later
#7258 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I messed around with the car door ones on a jjPotC, but the resolution was pretty crap due to the very small size of the slide and limited projection power so the image projected on the floor in front of the machine was what I would call unacceptable. HOWEVER a decent pico projector could put up very cool and inviting animated video on the floor in front of the machine. Would be very awesome if done right (aka, not Stern).


#7284 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

There are a lot of mysteries with this company, one of them is why they didn’t hire a proper marketing team with their big budgets.
I won’t be buying a RAZA. As an operator I don’t think it will draw quarters from pinheads unless there is something radical they held back from the prototype. And I don’t believe the theme will appeal to kids anywhere near as much as Jurassic Park, Stranger Things or Rick & Morty will. And I completely don’t understand the tiny DMD, given the investment in ex-Disney animators. I hope that was some kind of mistake.
I really hope to see the promised major innovations from them, but based on RAZA my expectations are low at this point.

VERY good question that To my knowledge has not been asked to date. Hm. You’d think a very stable genius like Robert would know that perception is reality, and marketing is key.

#7300 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Yes and as always it's a pinside fuckup.
They got guys from the Disney Infinity layoff (wich was a video game) wich translated to "WHOA THEY GOT DISNEY ANIMATORS".
Well, of course they claim to have talented animators as well.

Several of the names on LinkedIn are former Pixar animators. From MOVIES. For example, one guy lists Toy Story 4. I think that counts as a “Disney Animator”.

The other workers seem to be folks who just live in the area. There are a LOT of people who also have a company listed in which they themselves are the CEO. In other words, they formed an LLC and they’re likely the only employee. This smells bad, as if they’ve got their hands in too many buckets, and Deeproot employment is INO. Could be nothing though. Could be something.

3 weeks later
#7367 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I think people are tired of talk talk talk. Thankfully they are going to be showing (and shipping?) real games soon.

Man I totally forgot about this thread and company. Hopefully they show you know... something eventually. I saw they made 3 of the Zombie games ... so that’s nice. But it’s been what.. 3+ years ?

#7369 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

The prototype RAZA games at the Houston show in 2019 were the first games they have shown to the public. They have an full unveiling event the week of Texas Pinball Festival.

Yep. Although I believe the “full unveiling” language has been walked back a bit

2 weeks later
#7632 1 year ago

LOOOOOOOOOLLL. This is some great alternate reality stuff right here. I wish them all the best and hope they prove me wrong!!

#7687 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I did a bit of internet sleuthing and there seems to be like zero anything going on promoting this. This thread is as good as it gets, which is sad. This is the culmination of years and millions of dollars.
Deeprootstudios twitter (74 followers) last post was August 2019.
As much as Robert shits on Pinside, you remove this thread and there is NO ONE talking about the big launch, of a game we've already seen (that no one talks about).

Do they have facebook? Maybe they're just expecting TPF to be a huge release - make a video, post it online, get the buzz going. Or maybe this is all just a big scam.

#7699 1 year ago
Quoted from dc2010:

Sure seems like it, I requested access to the VIP event, only to get an email stating only for Media...
Hell ive been supportive , and I'm a local Tech,
Really disappointing Deeproot!

I wonder what media exactly they are expecting. This is certainly an unusual promotional approach

#7701 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That media that does that media thingy. Like reporting and stuff? Outside of pinside?

Except, it isn't.

What I was getting at is that pinball is not covered by regular media in the US almost at all. Many of the press are (as someone noted) podcasts and the rare "pinball is back!" write-up in a local magaazine.

Not unusual? No invites to the grand reveal? No promotion of the event itself ? No anticipatory press release *whatsoever* ?

These guys must be geniuses, because this is not how we do this in my business AT. ALL.

1 week later
#7816 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Robert finally sounds like he is starting to get it...no jabs at any other manufacturers or community members, and a little bit of humble pie for dessert. Hopefully he continues to follow this path from here on out.
"Launch won’t be the unrealistic daydreams I’ve had a million times since 2015, but it also won’t be disappointing either. Being humbled the hard way as you finally have to switch from tinkering to implementing has definitely given me some gray hairs and taken a few years off my life."

It absolutely does. He's moving the goalposts again, but at least this time with a much more conciliatory tone. Maybe by 2025 he'll really get it.

#7832 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So here's something to speculate:
Will the Deeproot reveal and/ or TPF be cancelled due to Corona?

Well South by Southwest was! And although Austin is QUITE far away from Dallas, who knows...!

#7870 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I'd go a Thunderbirds over a stern pro too!

... said no one, ever!

#7994 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I noticed that the launch is postponed... -_-;
XX days left


1 week later
#8040 1 year ago

I mean stick a fork in it. At this point only companies who have actually released you know.. anything at all.. are in the running

#8045 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Dennis has a very good Bullshit-o-meter......

Winner, winner chicken dinner.

#8100 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

People keep ignoring that Robert Is the investor. His words.
Alternatively, I guess, they are suggesting he is lying.
Either way the box will probably eventually flip open.
Maybe it's just a bit like Schrödingers cat .... lol

There are filing documents posted in this very thread which show it's not his money.

#8153 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Yep. It was a nice dream for a while though, wasn't it? And the timeline shows it wasn't related to the virus. Too bad for all the workers.

Wow, didn’t know quotes could be deleted like that. My assumption is there was a reason behind that. My theory: Robert is still reading Pinside. Dude: some actual info would be a lot better than threatening people. Sorry things aren’t going your way. This isn’t the way to get the community on your side.

#8158 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I’m confused by what your claiming? It was an April 1 prank not DR.

How’s that?

#8247 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Yes, it is always entertaining when a company spends millions of dollars, perhaps a lot of it not their own, over the course of a couple or maybe a few years, and has not sold anything or shown anything ready for sale within that time.

Pretty sure he was talking about the comedy gold that is this thread...

#8251 1 year ago

Paging Elbert Hubbard...

#8352 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm a very patient man.
So I'm hoping for the big Sledge Hammer! reveal by Christmas now.

That’s been talked about so much at this point, I am really psyched for it!

#8362 1 year ago

2 points (total 100% speculation on my part)

They will prob limit RAZA because it’s not profitable for them. They will give a lot of them away for free essentially, and unless the game takes off like a rocket, (which is a long shot), they can’t do enough volume to make up the difference.

I’m certain Mattel picked AP over DR because they have delivered games. Mattel is too big to take a risk and be helping little startups get off the ground

#8371 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

That doesn't answer the question... if you have all those uncertainties, why make it your launch title? Heck, if they feel what you say, why make it at all?
Remember.. Deeproot was NOT obligated to make RAZA - THEY CHOSE TO. And apparently is the game they chose to invest in so that it's the farthest along (at least as we know..)
So now, why after 3 years do you say 'well it wasn't meant to be the launch title...' and downplay it sales? This has nothing to do with Cornoa... this has to do with what they've been doing and their business strategy for the years leading up to this.

I think the first question is: why hire Jpop in the first place? He's a polarizing individual in the community. That's pretty well known - and he already screwed over *another* company before DR. So unless DR has their head in the sand, there's a main reason to hire him: he's a well known designer, has hits from 25 years ago - and is controversial. So if you subscribe to the "Controversy Creates Cash" mindset... he's a perfect fit. Now, you hire JPop so you get the marketing blitz and the community is talking about your company left and right ("there is no such thing as bad publicity").

Ok, JPOP is on board. Now how do you calm some of the teeth gnashing and the risk of litigation (a la Predator). Weigh out whether building 500 RAZA is less expensive than a long, drawn out lawsuit (even if it's ultimately thrown out, its a lot of money and time to waste on something that's not making games). So in this case - maybe that's it. Making 500 games that "don't clog the pipeline" and getting it over with.

OR. The launch game isn't ready, and they rushed these out like MG.

#8377 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Except that they didn't just hire a designer, they also bought and used his designs...designs which had been financed (some would say via fraud) by others.
So, they had to either make those "investors" happy, or risk a bunch of lawsuits down the road. The easier and (probably) cheaper way was to promise "future stuff" in return for no lawsuits.
Personally, I don't understand WHY they insisted on using JPOP's previous designs. They could have just hired him to do a new design. It's not like RAZA is so impressive an intellectual property that it was worth all the hassle.

This is my impression too -

#8383 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Not sure why all the open ended questions...
RM for some reason thinks JPOP is a gem.. he just needs the right environment to succeed. You might even say he's enamored with him as much as he's fluffed JPOP over the years. He didn't NEED JPOP - he brought JPOP in knowing all the baggage he had. They knew all the problems, knew there was other talent on the street, but still opt'd to bring JPOP on... knowing he has a ton of real hard dollar baggage tied to him. RM thought JPOP was a key asset.
To the point they created a settlement offer for zidware customers (including cash layout offers) to get people to 1) drop any lawsuits against zidware (and thus clean up the air around DR's absorption of the assets) and 2) become the first faithful cheering DR on. Maybe some of this was supposed to make DR look like a White Knight in the hobby and thus garner positive customer sentiment... but I think it was 95% about getting the stink off JPOP so DR could move forward with JPOP and Zidware assets 'free and clear'.
Problem was... not everyone took the offer. The anchors on Zidware still exist to this day... now DR has to goto phase 2 still under contention, and fund Zidware's bankruptcy, and probably some of their ongoing defense of Zidware too. The opportunity to just wipe out zidware and absorb any usable stuff w/o contention is gone.. its no longer just an internal paperswap with some court filings no one would care about...
So why keep doing this? Does RM want to save JPOP THAT BAD? My guess... it's a blend of both. Trying to save JPOP -and- DR has already hitched their horse to the Zidware asset train and doesn't want to let it go (another... point of conflict with their current statements about RAZA and the launch title..)
So we know DR has done many backflips to try to free up Zidware and JPOP... all while they didn't need to... but it all seems to be part of a larger plan.
So now they say 'oh well RAZA really wasn't meant to be the launch title...' -- Then why is it the game furthest along (that we know of) and why did you even make it in the first place when by your own statements you have people that can crank out designs in weeks, and you expect to have 9 titles a year ready.
To downplay RAZA now doesn't make sense with all the investment DR has done to have it (along with the other Zidware stuff) and all their actions to date to bring it along. They could have left Zidware as a carcass and just hired JPOP as an individual. But they saw things in Zidware that at least RM wanted... and bet on that horse.

It’s like you read my post and wrote it loooooonger ...

#8387 1 year ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Don't you think it's the opposite ? JPop brought RM.
People here always talk as if RM wanted to start a pinball company, went looking around for designers and thought John would be the best designer to start with and then look for other ex-wms folks.
I believe what happened is the other way around. John went looking (again) for investors. He started selling dreams, and got RM involved.
That's what John did when zidware started, he sold dreams to buyers.
Shiny mockups, promises of spectacular games, and displaying new concepts and ideas to wow new peopel.
When zidware couldn't deliver, I remember reading (probably on Johns blog) something that there were enough rich people in the world, and why couldn't pinball machines be like artworks that were worth millions..
So John went looking for investors.
First with wcbrandes, trying to get MG released.
Then he found the family that started American Pinball. Convinced them to go into pinball, that his Houdini design was amazing, ready and playable, ..
The public release wasn't well received, the playfield had issues. AP management suddenly realised what toxic history John brought, something they probably weren't completely aware off, and they quickly got rid of him - paying the price of assembling magic girl machines.
Then John just did the same again - looking for investors with a lot of money to sell his dreams.
He found RM. A pinball enthousiast with access to investment money.
John stroke his ego, probably sold him the dream of owning a pinball company even bigger than Stern.
Remember John now was not only the great designer of games that RM knew from WMS but John had also become the designer of MG that sold for 25.000.
I don't think RM initally had the dream of being CEO of a pinball company, certainly not when RM got into the pinball hobby.
He got that idea / dream from John.
Especially in RM's first reactions here it was clear he was thinking and talking like John.
Saying RM is a puppet of John probably is too much, but RM was/is very influenced / blinded by John.

Where did you get any part of this information from ?

1 week later
#8415 1 year ago