(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

1 year ago

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2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (1 year ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (6 months ago)

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#1 1 year ago

Zidware Claims...
Eclectic Gamers Interview

From This Week in Pinball:

deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE follow up interview:


--------------------------------------- Original Interview--------------------------------------

UPDATE: **EXCLUSIVE interview with deeproot Pinball:


Please do not copy and paste the whole interview in the thread as website views are my only way to track interest, and I want to see if spending this much time on one post is "worth it". Thanks.

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thisweekinpinball
Twitter: https://twitter.com/__twip__
Email: thisweekinpinball@gmail.com

--------------------------------------- Initial Post--------------------------------------

On today's This Week in Pinball (http://thisweekinpinball.com/twip-guardians-stream/), we tease the upcoming interview with deeproot which will be posted Thursday. Below is a preview of the interview:

deeproot Pinball has been quietly making progress on their path and plan to become a major pinball manufacturing company. They have been in licensing talks for several major pinball titles. They are currently looking to hire a Pinball Game Designer and a Game Writer (click here for the openings and descriptions including salary). They are hoping to have their manufacturing facility finalized in the next 2-3 weeks.

This Week in Pinball will be sharing an **EXCLUSIVE** interview with deeproot on Thursday. Some of the topics covered include:

Why they hired John Popadiuk
Updates on deeproot’s efforts to make Zidware customers/vendors whole
Information on their upcoming public announcement
Why deeproot Tech decided to pursue pinball as a new venture
What type of build quality to expect from deeproot (hint: using a car comparison, they want to build a Ferrari and sell it at KIA prices)
What is deeproot Pinball’s target market (hint: its you)
The possibility of mass producing Magic Girl, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, and Alice in Wonderland

deeproot is extremely confident that they will be a very successful pinball manufacturer. The interview will make some in the pinball community angry, some won’t believe anything deeproot says, and some will be skeptical but quietly hopeful/excited. Stay tuned!

Screen-Shot-2017-11-26-at-3.59.33-PM (resized).png

#5 1 year ago

Here is the link mentioned above for the deeproot job postings: https://www.indeedjobs.com/deeproot-tech/_hl/en_US

JPop's title has also changed from "Lead Game Developer" to "Game Designer" on the deeproot website.

#10 1 year ago

For those unfamiliar with deeproot Pinball, here is a timeline for the company:

Early 2015
deeproot Tech starts its pinball division – deeproot Pinball. They contact several pinball designers and manufacturers.

Summer 2015
The deeproot team decides to shelve the pinball project until a later date.

October 2016
deeproot begins implementing their internal plan of action to start down the road to become a pinball manufacturer.

Late 2016 – 2017
deeproot begins reaching out to several pinball designers. After spending significant time weighing pros and cons, deeproot decides that pinball designer John Popadiuk (“JPop”) is the best option available. They decided this knowing there would be backlash from some in the pinball community, and knowing they would need to address John’s past mistakes with Zidware.

June 2017
deeproot begins to move forward with their plan to deal with JPop’s past and provide help to Zidware customers.

Early September 2017
Plaintiffs of the lawsuit and deeproot agree to terms on a settlement. This settlement with the Plaintiffs will be essentially the same for all other former customers of Zidware. (Details of the settlement will be revealed soon.)

September 14th, 2017
It is discovered on deeproot’s website that John Popadiuk is part of their team with the title Lead Game Development. Confidential terms of the settlement are leaked to podcasters and others in the pinball community. A thread is started on Pinside.com to inform many in the pinball community that JPop has resurfaced and is working with deeproot Pinball. Notably, Jeremy Packer (aka Zombie Yeti) makes a post which includes: “I have been asked to sign over all copyrights free and clear as if I was fully compensated. I simply refuse.” Podcasters, most notably Chris Kooluris of Kaneda’s Pinball Podcast, released podcasts with harsh criticism of deeproot. All of this, of course, caused severe negative reaction to deeproot since John Popadiuk still owed many Zidware customers refunds or machines.

September 18th, 2017
This Week in Pinball speaks to Robert Mueller, the man behind deeproot Tech, and posts “A Conversation with Deeproot“. Robert shares:
- deeproot plans to make Zidware customers whole
- Robert: “Jpop is someone that needs to be managed”
- deeproot does not plan to take any pre-order money or deposits for their machines
- deeproot may change the title or tweak the layout of John’s already designed games
- Robert believes he can build machines in a different and better way than other manufacturers are doing currently
- deeproot hopes to make a public announcement in the coming weeks, then go dark for a long time until everything is ready

October 13th, 2017
deeproot retracts its settlement offer to the Plaintiffs for reasons that will be disclosed at a later date.

October 21st, 2017
Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time. Jeremy verbally agrees to sign over the rights to the games in exchange for undisclosed consideration.

#11 1 year ago

Also, for those unfamiliar with John Popadiuk's history, here is a very brief summary:

A few years back, Popadiuk owned a company called Zidware, and planned to build three titles in limited quantities: Magic Girl, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA), and Alice in Wonderland (AIW). (Note: Magic Girl was to be limited to 26ish machines, and RAZA limited to 124ish machines.) Zidware customers paid in part or in full for machines that had not been built yet (the “pre-order” model). Popadiuk ran out of funds before any games were delivered.

American Pinball later built the Magic Girl machines and they were shipped to customers, however, despite the efforts of American Pinball, the game was incomplete.

Pre-order customers of RAZA and AIW have yet to receive a refund or a machine. John does not have the money to refund Zidware customers or the means to build the Zidware machines, so any form of restitution would have to come with significant financial and manufacturing help of an outside source.

For more details on the timeline of JPop from July 2011 through 2017, go to this website: http://johnpopadiuk.com/index.html

#16 1 year ago

Because of deeproot's affiliation with JPop, I think some will be angry no matter what deeproot says right now (which is understandable).

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Are those typical salaries for the industry?

I saw this quote in the deeproot Tech Job Postings thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deeproot-tech-job-postings):

Quoted from Ballypinball:

With the pay they offer they could hire all of Sterns design team

But I have no idea what is typical - someone else can chime in if they know...

#21 1 year ago

A little more info:

deeproot will soon be publicly releasing a web page that will include the background of their pinball division, Goodwill Terms for past Zidware customers, how to file a claim, details of the attempted settlement between deeproot and the Plaintiffs of the lawsuit against Zidware, and over twenty FAQs regarding deeproot.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from DennisK:

I've never understood the calculus that would arrive at this determination, especially after American Pinball attempted to use JPop. If a start-up wanted an established designer (makes sense, the start-up would not have the institutional knowledge to train one internally), there are a number of options devoid of baggage that could either be contracted with (Nordman does this) or hired (Oursler just was, last I heard Jon Norris remains interested in designing).
JPop's advantages I assume would be his stable of well-known/liked machines from the Williams years (though a real coup would have been to go after Brian Eddy or Mark Ritchie, if the "name recognition" angle were the primary motivator) or the desire to take advantage of a stable of existing designs (a time-saver of sorts, though obviously you take on baggage with the Zidware designs). I just couldn't figure how this outweighs the need to address the Zidware situation, the number of collectors who will likely never buy a new JPop design (regardless of the Zidware outcome, given how it was handled for years), and the quantity of design talent (both old guard and fresh blood) presently in the hobby.
But, I'm not an entrepreneur and perhaps I'm overlooking something. Just seems like more trouble for them (or any start-up) than it is worth.

The first question in the interview is this:

Hiring John Popadiuk meant deeproot would either have to attempt to help the Zidware customers or face backlash from some in the pinball community.  Why start in pinball with that burden, why not go with a different designer?

(love your podcast by the way!)

#30 1 year ago

Some more info about the interview coming out tomorrow. I asked about 40 questions which will hopefully shed some light on this newest potential pinball manufacturer. They have big plans beyond possibly remaking Magic Girl, and are going after some huge (grail) themes.

Here are a few of the questions asked:

If you could go back, would you still choose to work with JPop instead of a different designer?

It appears that deeproot is involved in many different ventures.  Why choose pinball as a new venture?

Do you have the capability, expertise, experience, and financial resources to manufacture pinball machines in large quantities?

Do you think deeproot can be the largest pinball manufacturer at some point in the future?

Will deeproot pinball machines be less expensive than current new pinball machines?

Do you plan for the quality and depth of the machines to be similar to, for example, a Stern Pinball machine, Spooky Pinball machine, or Jersey Jack Pinball machine?

Who is your target market for deeproot pinball machines?

What is the "5 days of deeproot"?

#33 1 year ago

Some last minute changes happening with the interview, and we're going to get more info from deeproot than I initially thought. More on that later but if you have any additional questions for them, please PM me or share them here and I'll ask if I haven't already.

epthegeek and jgentry, thanks for your questions, those are important but I may skip them

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Questions for deeproot: A complaint of RAZA was that it appeared to borrow elements that were not in public domain, are there any licensing or copyright issues for these game?
Also, What makes them think they will be successful where many others have failed?
Finally, what is their approach to implementing graphics for the LCD screen(s)?

Great questions - some are already covered and I'll check with deeproot on the others.

#40 1 year ago
Quoted from CaptK:

Did Deeproot approach applejuice about his code-work? Will he be made whole? Will applejuice be helping with the code going forward? What about the other people/companies that did work for Jpop, but are still owed money by Jpop? Will Deeproot take care of these folks as well?

Good questions, already in the interview. Thanks!

#41 1 year ago

Also, if you have questions make sure to get them to me in the next few hours as I'll need plenty of time to pull everything together this evening.

#49 1 year ago

I have no horse in this race - I'm not effected one way or the other if deeproot becomes a major pinball manufacturer or is a total failure, and I wasn't a Zidware customer.

If I were owed something from Zidware though, and knowing that right now JPOP has no funds to pay back Zidware customers and no means to make the machines without help...if deeproot can provide restitution to those effected by JPOP's past mistakes, isn't that a good thing? Or is JPOP so hated that - even if deeproot makes those effected whole - since they hired him, they'll never be accepted in pinball?

#52 1 year ago
Quoted from pin2d:

A little more info:
deeproot will soon be publicly releasing a web page that will include the background of their pinball division, Goodwill Terms for past Zidware customers, how to file a claim, details of the attempted settlement between deeproot and the Plaintiffs of the lawsuit against Zidware, and over twenty FAQs regarding deeproot.

More news that I just found out today - the deeproot website will go public TOMORROW when the interview posts.

#56 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why would it work this time? He didn't know how to produce a game on his own, he fucked it all up with American Pinball...why would it be any different this time? Jpop, without an infrastructure of a pinball factory, engineers and proper management is incapable of doing anything. Why does Deeproot thing they can change him or complete his projects?
They're either super ignorant or super arrogant....or both.

I'm not saying it will work, I have no idea. My point is if I was owed something from JPOP, isn't it better that something is happening instead of nothing? A 5% chance I get a machine is better than 0% chance.

100% agree that JPOP needs an infrastructure of a pinball factory, needs engineers and needs proper management.

#59 1 year ago

deeproot interview article all set and scheduled for release tomorrow at 6:00 AM EST. Thanks all.

#62 1 year ago

THIS WEEK IN PINBALL **EXCLUSIVE interview with deeproot Pinball:


Please do not copy and paste the whole interview in the thread as website views are my only way to track interest, and I want to see if spending this much time on one post is "worth it". Thanks.

#106 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

did they say when the 5 days starts? That is the obvious follow up question.

That IS an obvious follow up, this interviewer must be some sort of amateur.

The "5 days of deeproot" would be closer to launch when/if they get to that point.

#133 1 year ago

Some follow up statements/clarifications from deeproot Pinball to the pinball community on This Week in Pinball:


#136 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Would love another category added for - most incomplete software.

Trying to keep it positive my friend!

I am redoing the TWIPY awards though, and started a thread here for input: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-twipy-awards-2017-pinball-awards-input-needed

1 month later
#161 1 year ago

I know there is a lot of "deeproot fatigue", so forgive me for bumping this.

We have a follow up interview with deeproot coming up Thursday, which includes:

- New Home for deeproot Pinball
- New Hires, including three additional experienced pinball designers
- Updates for Zidware customers and submitting questions to be answered on an upcoming podcast
- The Five Days of deeproot: schedule and more details
- Plus an interview with Robert Mueller of deeproot which includes:

In your last interview, some in the pinball community thought you came across as over-confident or arrogant, particularly with your comment about doing pinball being "easy".  Do you have any comments regarding the last interview?

What is your plan for previous Zidware customers, do you still plan to do a webinar to answer their questions?

What about Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) and Jim Askey (Applejuice)?

What does the rest of 2018 look like for deeproot Pinball?

How long did deeproot spend researching and/or considering pinball before making the decision to enter the pinball industry?

What has been the most challenging thing deeproot has faced so far while entering the pinball industry?

A position that is missing from the New Hires is a software person - who will be coding the deeproot machines?

You mention no assembly line - can you expand on how the machines will be built without an assembly line?

Has deeproot built a "test" pinball machine?

Has deeproot obtained any license for a theme for a pinball machine?

#162 1 year ago

Still need to do a few tweaks but the interview is scheduled for release tomorrow at 6:00 AM EST. The main point of this release of info seems to be to announce the Zidware Webinar and Claims schedule as it sounds like they want to take care of that before moving forward, but Robert from deeproot opened up a bit more in this interview about deeproot's plans. He even gives the title and theme of one of the machines they are planning/hoping to build...a title they designed in house that seems a bit "fitting" for an already controversial company.

#168 1 year ago

From This Week in Pinball:

deeproot Pinball: New Home, New Hires, 5 Days of deeproot, EXCLUSIVE follow up interview:


image1 (resized).jpg

1 week later
4 months later
#873 1 year ago

A deeproot update article will be coming tomorrow on This Week in Pinball, along with a mini-interview. It will cover a new well-known hire that will be moving to San Antonio, the new deeproot facilities and studios, and something else that...well, my first question in the interview starts out "Why on earth would deeproot...?"

We're also hoping to get the new hire on the TWIP Podcast in the next few days to get his/her thoughts.

We've also got a few pics, including this one...

dT - candid.jpg

#877 1 year ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

If Deeproot wants to succeed, the first step is to take ANY foamcore playfield on the wall that resembles GB and toss it in the closest available dumpster fire.

At first glance I thought it looked like the leaked Deadpool layout, but you're right, it does look a lot like GB.

2 weeks later
#1041 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

In twip interview Deeproot was said to be giving one of each designers pins away "for free". I think some of of the paid in full people get a Deeproot game in "exchange" for their financial loss.

Just to clarify, deeproot plans to give away one of each designers pins as part of the monthly This Week in Pinball Giveaway Extravaganzas (info here: https://thisweekinpinball.com/new-giveaways-for-august-first-twip-le-emails/).

That is completely separate from the Goodwill Terms for Zidware customers, where deeproot is offering credits towards deeproot games based on how much $$ Zidware customers were owed, if that makes sense. As jvspin said, more info can be found here: https://zidware.deeproottech.com/

2 months later
#1460 1 year ago

After we had a chance to do a tour at deeproot last week, a deeproot article will be posted tomorrow morning!

It'll be one of the most interesting articles to ever appear on TWIP.

Obligatory teaser! We'll cover:

The Tour at deeproot
Is it "Pinball"?
The Break Room
deeproot Departments and Processes
- The Guts
- Displays/Animations/Rules/Storyboarding
- Playfield Designers
- Programming and Product Development
- Manufacturing
The Oval Room

Check it out tomorrow!

2 months later
1 month later
#2263 9 months ago

Hey all! Just catching up on my Pinside reading and saw the updates to this thread. We've been doing the monthly sweepstakes since early last year, and the deeproot Future Giveaway Teaser blurb has been in there since it launched (so it runs on TWIP once or twice a month).

I reached out to all manufacturers and a bunch of other pinball companies (mods and such) to try to line up as many cool giveaways as I could, explaining that the giveaways would help support TWIP and keep the TWIP website running. I asked other manufacturers if they would be willing to give away a machine, they mostly said no (with one that said maybe someday). Robert very generously offered to giveaway a machine from each designer after deeproot officially launches.

We currently do about $1,000 worth of giveaways each month from 10+ companies depending on the month. There is no purchase necessary, it is free to enter - you don't have to support TWIP to be entered into the giveaway drawings. If you support TWIP monthly you're automatically entered each month, if you don't support TWIP monthly just send me your name and address and you'll be entered for that month.

1 month later
#2384 8 months ago
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:

Haha, great response... Jeff from twip basically said the same thing. I guess that's all u can say when u sign an NDA

I'm not under NDA (just FYI).

#2387 8 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

If you're not under NDA and you're media why would you not report what's going on? Especially with the amount of speculation?

I try to work with all manufacturers as much as they will let me. If I'm shown something privately that they don't want public, I don't share it of course.

2 months later
1 month later
#3448 4 months ago

This just posted on http://deeprootpinball.com

We know there is a lot of excitement around deeproot and its mysterious pinball project. We also know there is frustration in how long it has taken to see something, let alone experience the deeproot pinball difference. If all we wanted to do is compete with existing pinball manufacturers and churn out the outdated and uninspired pinball package as it exists in the market today, it would have been a much easier path and accomplished years ago. We chose a different path. The simultaneous development on hundreds of unique pinball innovations and tens of titles has taken much longer than anyone (has) wanted.The fringe benefit to developing innovative pinball machines is the forced creation of multiple divisions and groups across a wide variety of industries and fields. These would not normally be found in a singular relatively small company. Which is why deeproot is unique and uniquely positioned to not only provide a different type of pinball experience, but also a cross-branded and diverse exploration of new concepts, ideas, stories, and experiences. This will keep deeproot Pinball tied to more popular entertainment choices and trends, and our Pinball creations relevant for decades to come.There have been endless amounts of speculation in forums or disseminated in the ‘pinball media’ regarding our pinball project, our finances, and even our separate and independent investment funds (that have very little to do with pinball). We’ve definitely had some good laughs along the way at the seemingly endless queue of ‘experts’. We will keep on doing what we do best along the following schedule:

June 28, 2019

By June 28th, we will provide Zidware claimants who i) filed and perfected a claim ii) within the prescribed time, and iii) signed/returned the Goodwill Agreements a choice between extending the delivery date or receiving monetary benefits as outlined in each’s agreement. All other claimants' claims or vendors' claims will thereinafter be rejected. That is the finale and extent of our self-imposed, voluntary goodwill to deal with the Zidware situation.

November 15-16, 2019

At a minimum, several RAZA prototypes will be available to play at the Houston Arcade Expo.

Fall 2019 - Summer 2020

Knowing exactly when we launch is a valuable trade secret that allows competitors an undesirable competitive advantage. At a minimum, the 5 days of deeproot will be scheduled and RAZA will be available for sale during this time period.We fully intend to make good on our 2018 Pinball Expo promises we regrettably did not accomplish in 2019. -- Robert J. Mueller, Principal

deeproot Pinball, 12621 Silicon Dr, San Antonio, TX 78249
(888) 316-2935

2 weeks later
#3764 4 months ago

Hello all! So their has been some discussion on the deeproot article after the tour, and your of course open to you’re opinion on it! There up to quite a bit they’re to, definitely peeked my interest. Planning on an article to be released on TWIP in the next couple weaks!

#3768 4 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Piqued your interest #grammerWars

Keep looking! Its a lot more grammar problems than just that. I mean, “it’s” a lot more...

#3770 4 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Oh, thank god your grammar was a joke post. I was worried you got a concussion.

Just trying to get this grammar thread back to a pinball thread in the most obnoxious way possible

1 week later
#3904 3 months ago

Hi all, working on some website issues sending people to BS links, so the deeproot article is deleted for now...thanks for your patience and sorry for the bad links.

- Jeff

#3907 3 months ago

FYI - It'll be back up soon, working on finding someone to get the site fixed.

#3911 3 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Link is down, I guess someone in TX asked for some edits !

Still working on fixing the TWIP site, it’ll be back up soon!

#3942 3 months ago

Ok let's try this again!

The deeproot Tour: Whitewood Wonderland and the Cart Before the Horse


(plz let me know if you get any redirects to spam sites)

2 months later
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