How about Alex Haley's Roots - that wood be a deeproot. Kunta Kinte ball escape. Chicken George mode, etc.
(Topic ID: 203700)
Linked Games
Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020-
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Topic Gallery
There have been 1,386 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider noquarters.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
I'm as skeptical of deeproot as anyone, but I'm willing to watch the thing play out.
Skeptical also - watching, but not real closely.
You know how the saying goes : If it sounds too good to be true...
1 month later
Quoted from pin2d:
deeproot Pinball's launch has been postponed - find the details here:
https://thisweekinpinball.com/deeproot-pinball-launch-postponed/
Somehow I'm not surprised. Have to remain skeptical.
1 week later
Skeptical right from the start. Even more skepticism with their acknowledgment of delay.
Hope for the best but expect nothing.
3 weeks later
Quoted from flynnibus:
"deeproot Pinball plans to give away a FREE pinball machine for each designer to some lucky winners!! Designers include Robert Mueller, Dennis Nordman, Jon Norris, Barry Oursler, and John Popadiuk. You get a FREE deeproot machine of your choice by that designer! The designer will also help set up the machine, discuss the design process and the game, and play your game at your place of residence!! You can invite up to four friends. These giveaways will take place after deeproot Pinball officially launches!! (Reasonable restrictions apply. Subject to change.)"
Oh my.. where have we heard this before...
I wonder what the Odds are that this happens ? Kind of sounds far fetched and like recycled hyperbole. But there is the disclaimer - Reasonable restrictions apply. Subject to change. I'd hang my hat on the disclaimer.
I'm skeptical if games ever make full production. I'll believe it when I see it.
Would like to see deeproot live up to their "vision" or whatever you want to call it. But a very healthy dose of skepticism seems quite warranted.
I'm in the show me camp. Hope they deliver..... meanwhile time marches on.
1 month later
Casually watching. Could be interesting if they pull it off. Guessing if it does indeed come to fruition, they will have to get rolling sometime in 2019. At some point you need to produce games and have income from sales to be viable. Time marches on. Sitting back and watching but I won't get excited until something happens. Maybe they can do it, but it can't be easy in any way.
1 month later
Quoted from fishbone:
This. Too bad the "Five days of Deeproot" have been postponed. I like to see new ideas whether outlandish or ingenious. Innovation, baby. Bring it on (especially in this business)
How about 5 years not five days. Skepticism grows with each month that goes by.
2 weeks later
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:
I hope we get a reveal soon before another 25 pages discussing optos and switches
Don't hold your breath.
Quoted from Fulltilt:
Wow... flew through today's 35 posts pretty quickly... (:
Nothing to see here.
Time Marches On.
Quoted from Aurich:
...... can you beat Pinside for free market research? It's a gold mine of opinions!
At times it's more like a septic tank.
1 month later
1 week later
Quoted from mcbPalisade:
Looks like a female George Jetson
Doesn't do anything for me[quoted image]
Looks like something drawn for a kids sticker book more than pinball art. Doesn't do a thing for me either.
That artwork is WAY better than the stuff that looks like it was made for a preteen girls sticker book ... post 3817...
Many new posts and still a bunch of nothing.
In regards to the article - Until there is a full production line with equipment and workers assembling games I wouldn't hold my breath. Sounds like empty space concerning that if I read the article correctly. All the hyperbole and even with a big brick and mortar building and pinball scientists doesn't mean much unless you produce games.
In the show me camp. And time continues to march on...
3 weeks later
Not holding my breath , though I'd like to see them actually make it and produce some games. Time just keeps passing though.
Good to hear some folks are getting cash payouts. That is good.
Still skeptical though that they can deliver on the manufacturing of multiple games etc to the tune of the hyperbole.
Time marches on.
Nice some folks got cash, but yep - still skeptical about the whole thing succeeding and games getting produced on the level of a prime pinball manufacturer.
Nothing to get excited about until a full factory line is active and churning out games.
I watched it live when it aired too.
I like the episode where he qualifies at the range and he uses a "loudener" on his gun blowing huge holes in all the targets. 
1 week later
Quoted from o-din:
is better than both those pieces. lol
I'm not going to go back through 92 pages of nothing to find what Italian sports car deeproot is trying to sell us. From what I understand they don't even have a dealership or a showroom yet.
Not Italian sports cars, I thought more along the lines of a Smart Car or Yugo. Remember the Pinto and Pacer ? Those were gorgeous and wonderfully engineered.
Dealership or showroom ?? Factory has no line to put anything together. Not that there is anything to build. At least no push back from the UAW union.
@ o-din
Dream themes could include one music pin that nobody would dare build - Lawrence Welk the music pin ! Imagine a bubble machine inside the playfield. A one a and a two a multiball. Good night theme song playing at game over. I've pitched this theme to one of my contacts at a major pin manufacturer. The boss just won't give it a go. It would look great sitting next to my Beatles pin.
2 weeks later
Announcements pretty much equate to nothing or close to it. Heck, o-din has posted as much useful substance as anybody. 
Not holding my breath any more.
Don't get me wrong I'd like to see them get a line going and actual games in production, but I am not convinced it will happen. A lot of time has gone by already. Have to be skeptical.
Quoted from PinRob:
You were holding your breath? If so you would at the very least have brain damage or more likely no longer be with us.
No - I'm just a normal pinsider now.
@ o-din
Could your group do Sledgehammer ? A really hot Dori Doreau would be good too. Not sticker book crap, but really good cartoon art.
1 week later
Are we there yet ?
Quoted from ThisNotes4U:
What happens if you are the poster that hits 100 pages? Prizes maybe? (nothing for first place).
1 month later
Quoted from epthegeek:
The bit I don't get is: John was already working on RAZA for quite a while before deep root absorbed Zidware. The current version being shown isn't too far off from his PF back then (as shown in the side by side photo). Then tack on all the time Deep Root has been involved and a bunch of actual industry people are part of that team, and this is all they've got so far?
THIS !
So they took this game to a show to get feedback ? I don't know that's it's going to be real positive.
@ noitbe1 - I watched the video STDM posted again. Shortened up my post on impression from the videos. Actually the STDM video isn't that horrible. The second video posted by Hardy is worse.
You are correct hard to tell how it plays without actually being there.
But not seeing much for a couple years of work on something that was already designed previously. It just doesn't look like an effort that matches the time and rhetoric we have heard.
Quoted from ZMeny:
I’m not there or I’d be happy to film the heck out of it for everyone
Zach - your video posted really isn't that bad. Actually thought it was better than the footage Hardy posted. Nice you got something up on the interweb to view. Your friend made a good effort. We get an idea what the game looks like and see a little play.
You are absolutely correct razorsedge. - I'm just making the observation they will get feedback at the show and I don't think it's going to be super positive. I would still say though this is their product and they are showcasing it to some degree .. This is a couple years effort piled on top of work that was done previously by jpop. They can call this unveiling what they want. They will get their real world testing and numbers. Let's see what they do with it.
Quoted from rubberducks:
JJP had Hobbits, DIs and PotCs on location for months getting feedback before they went to production, too.
But as Keith Johnson alluded to on Twitter, I'm not sure DR are going to get much useful testing data from these.
Yes - I wonder how much actual data they collect at a show and how useful it is. Maybe what they are really interested in is firsthand reaction to what they have. A lot of stuff in pinball can't be quantified - could be that stuff is what is being observed. Question is Will they do anything with what they learn.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:
I don't think it's Deeproot people dislike as much as they do Robert and the way he goes about things.
They would have had a better shot if it was somebody besides Robert, and no Jpop. Two strikes to start with.
I'll see your original BSG and raise you one original Bonanza.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I'll see your Bonanza and raise you one Lorne Greene Alpo Time dog food commercial.
I always liked Chuck Conners as the Rifleman too. And Wagon Train was alright too. Wanted Dead or Alive with Steve McQueen ...
Gunsmoke would probably make the best pin though.
1 week later
Deeproot apparently is only a prototype model of a pinball company and the power is turned down. Real world data for them is sketchy.
3 months later
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
There’s zero chance this event happens in two weeks. Unless they are about to run out of money and seriously have no other option.
They will be ok - they would be way under the 250 person threshold for gatherings I would think.
If they got 50 people to show up I'd be surprised.
Let er rip. Do the big reveal.
@ cjhand - Kudos for exercising good judgement in regards to health and health of others. Everybody should do this. Thanks.
2 weeks later
1 month later
2 months later
This thread is a couple years old and you're now counting weeks for communication, information, tangibles, etc ?
Years would be much easier.
Pretty tough to have much optimism at this point. 
2 weeks later
2 weeks later
Rip Van Winkle should be their first pin.
That's assuming something actually gets out the door at some point...
3 weeks later
Quoted from branlon8:
sorry, that doesn't count - you did 2 in a row !
Nothing was new at #9999 so I took the liberty of claiming #10,000 when so much has changed. LOL
I don't expect too much today, but wouldn't it be nice if there really is something other than just the Raza. I have pretty much forgot what was shown before but it was not memorable, at least for me. Guess we will see, or not.
Having a real production line with bunches of workers and process that pumps games out like the big one is a very tall order.
Quoted from frolic:
The manufacturing piece IS the main piece. We've seen so many huge game debuts over the years only to have it all fall apart after. If manufacturing is not part of the reveal today, we're probably still a year+ away.
If they are not close to manufacturing by now, it's all toast.
Quoted from Mudflaps:
I feel like this is all some elaborate social experiment.
It's called a f#8%k show.
Is that a Bose Radio from the 90's stuck on the pin ? Guessing it's the monitor - looks more like a radio in an old barbershop.
The lock down area is stupid bad. Genital area speakers ? What is going on at that place ?
Quoted from Coz:
Judging by the fingerprints, I assume this is a touch screen?? What are your thoughts?
[quoted image]
I think that's maybe a microwave oven with the door on the top instead of the front ? Or maybe a dispenser for ice cream sandwiches or cold drinks.
I'm with Levi on this. Pretty much everything they did is stupid. The "innovations" are goofy. That's one of the crappiest hot messes I have seen. The came up with stuff just to have new crapola. Might as well put square tires on a car.
The only thing stupid I might like, IF it was done right, are the dumb themes, with forethought, and IF done by another company that can actually produce a game. That's even a flyer, but a funny theme or an off the wall title "MIGHT" work if executed correctly with an experienced smart manufacturer. Even that's a big stretch. Just trying to find something to sort of like.
They haven't even tackled the hardest part. A factory line with workers and processes that work, and so on. Too busy designing the Edsel pinball machine.
@ jvspin - Having the glass encased in a frame with gas filled shocks is a mistake. When the glass breaks or the shocks fail or start to leak and the glass does not stay up you have a problem. There is nothing hard or difficult removing or replacing glass in a conventional manner. Cost of the glass system and lift will add a bunch of cost and a point of failure to the game. Diagnostics on the screen ? Take a look at an AP game. The apron pinbar is goofy. It would be more useful to make that a lid for a cooler to put your drinks or ice cream in. That's what it looks like. Too bulky and odd. Touch screen's are for phones.
Quoted from Jvspin:
The one thing I like about the Heighway system is the glass feels safe in it's cartridge and it doesn't require extra space to remove, downside is it's heavy.
How does AP get around the playfield blocking the LCD screen when it's in it's vertical position? I can't find any youtube videos of AP's service menu.
A friend of mine has Alien and the motorcycle game whatever its called. Removing the glass on them is awkward and they are heavy for sure. What happens when the glass itself breaks. How is the glass secured in the frame ? I just don't like it. Too bulky and too heavy. Simpler is better.
I have not done switch tests and coil tests with the playfield raised - I didn't read your statement carefully. When I have had to check something it's pretty much with the playfield down in most cases to find what I might need to look at before I raise the playfield. Manually checking switches, firing coils etc with playfield down. Guess I didn't understand where you going.
Reminds me of those "as seen on tv" ads where someone can't use a basic onion peeler without losing a finger or setting their kitchen on fire.
I like the guy that cuts the bottom out of a boat and puts in screen and sprays it with rubber stuff.
Quoted from benheck:
PinBar is stupid. It's ugly, uncomfortable and shows a very Boomer-esque misunderstanding of why Millenials and zoomers enjoy location pins in the first place - BECAUSE THEY'RE MECHANICAL AND RETRO.
In fact i'd argue pins would become more popular on location the FURTHER from a cell phone they get, not CLOSER.
12 upvotes from me if I could. 1 upvote is not enough.
Also props to Rosh and his comments. ( by the way AP will continue to get more buys from me in the future )
Fu**k the ipads and phones. Pinball should be pinball. That's the last thing I want integrated in to a pin.
Just make better pins. Have them be reliable. Manufactured well. Great support - if the first 3 are taken care of the support should not be a problem for the manufacturer.
Sorry - that's a complete misrepresentation of what has transpired here.
1 - They have promoted what they want to do with it
2 - We have competencies to be able to form reasonable opinions of what those promoted items may mean to us
3 - We are not blind sheep that will simply follow the promises a perineal blowhard who can't deliver
4 - It can't be overlooked that 'playing the game' somehow wasn't part of the NDA release... I'm sure that's because they think they have some magic they don't want other companies copying... but it also speaks volumes about where they think they are with being able to get to market.
My comment was about keeping an eye open for POTENTIAL vs damning all futures. Much of the bashing is not about potential - but what we've already seen (or they refuse to show)
Again... this was a game that was supposed to be complete more than half a year ago. People had flights booked, hotels ready... to experience a grand multi-day reveal of the deeproot story. A plan that was stopped by covid right??? Wouldn't you love to hear the real planned agenda for that reveal?
Bob in Dec 2018 - that's right.. almost TWO years ago stated:
"We aren’t worried about spin or making anything positive or negative. It is very simple. I owe it to my staff that the blood, sweat, and tears (innovations) we have expended will be showcased and delivered to the public in the best possible way. That includes extra stress and cycle testing of new innovations; using additional time making sure launch titles are code and AV complete; increasing the durability of the playfield; and improving playfield assembly process efficiencies. Lastly, I’ve promised future customers that we will ship in two weeks of a sale being made. We simply will not reveal anything before being able to keep the promise by promptly shipping games after a reveal."
Nov 2019 when asked about production
"TWIP: Can you give an update on production – do you have an estimation on how close deeproot is to starting production?
RM: I’ll answer it like this. We will meet our modified Zidware deadline of June 30, 2020."
Now, three deadlines later... we still have an aborted launch, incomplete product, and no clear story on how they plan to get to market or improve upon the game they previously showed.
No one needs to 'play the game' to be able to form a valid opinion on the state of things.
Great post and sums the situation up very well. We have seen the dog and pony show by these types before - many if not all, have not gone well.
Another one I'd like to give 12 upvotes to.
Quoted from yancy:
Because it's simple, time tested, rock solid technology that just plain works. I can navigate a Williams or Stern menu faster than you can do anything on a fancy touchscreen device. Never have to worry if my app is updated. Never have to go upstairs and grab my phone if I left it in the living room. Never have to troubleshoot the bluetooth dongle firmware or whatever the hell will inevitably break my ability to change something I can do in ten seconds with existing hardwired buttons. Don't have to worry about fat-fingering something on a touchscreen.
Ask any operator or longtime collector if they'd trade their coin door buttons for an app.Outdated, you mean like pinball itself? All of those things you listed have been distilled down to their simplest essence over decades. No frills, just basic, commercial-grade mechanical functionality that even a luddite old-school operator can figure out without software or even a paper manual.
Multiple upvotes here too.
It's a manufacturing business, period, full stop. If you aren't manufacturing pins, you don't even have a business. Design is just one department that feeds the assembly line, like human resources, procurement, accounting, etc. Sure, design is the part that excites us, but it's not a business. It's just an expense.
The. Line. Is. Everything. And I haven't seen any evidence that deerpoot has one.
BINGO
Don't see Deeproot doing it Wesman. Have doubts they will. Sure I'd like to see it. But I think they are prone to failure with the time and what we have seen and not seen so far.
Yes multiple companies have done it. Deeproot - nope. Not even close.
Quoted from ForceFlow:
I was in town today, and on the main street there is an antique/junk shop. They tend to put a few things out front on the sidewalk, and I noticed this thing...[quoted image]
That's their initial Prototype !
I think the lack of opinion shared and the following of the NDAs reveals that they all WANT another free trip in the future, that it's already been dangled. To come back for launch part 2.
I don't think anybody will be needing to make any more trips.
Quoted from Viggin900:
Just leaked! Here are better pictures of the Pinbar and how it works.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Why is that one mounted vertically ? WTF . That should be down on the play surface where it's in the way and you can burn your hands.
18 what ? Months until nothing happens ? Again.
Or do they string things along for another 18 months for final implosion ?
Quoted from pookycade:
Ya know if you just read the first couple of pages of this thread you could skip the next 2 years and 234 pages and know entirely what was about to transpire. On page 1 multiple comments like “this will not end well”. It’s like reading the cliff notes version upfront and then letting the 1000 page book unfold thereafter. What is most surprising I suppose is that it has gone almost exactly as one would expect it to go thus far. A slow motion train wreck of bad decision and poor execution upon bad decision and poor execution.
I'd give 10 upvotes on this one if I could.
I wonder how much longer until the train wreck ends ?
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
What a total shitshow this has been.
I'd guess about another 6 months of nonsense and little to no further progress. No line, No games and No money coming in - other than who ever has been fooled into investing in this venture. It's not going to turn out well. Seems to have some similarity to previous Zidware. At some point this house of cards will fall.
1 week later
@ Todd
A great new idea would be for them to actually produce some games. I don't think these folks will make it another 35 years to actually push something out the doors. No Christmas Story here...
Nice post about pinball history though. Liked that part.
1 week later
Yup - that looks a lot like the pinbar.
I still think it would be better served as a cooler lid for holding cold beverages, frozen ice cream confections or something else you don't need in a pinball machine. Ha !
There’s no crying in pinball dude.
and there's no production in deep root.
Hello pinside my old friend
I came to the deeproot thread again
Where nothing just keeps repeating
Where the believers just keep seeking
And there's the familiar smell ...of failure
Quoted from Mr68:
I was hoping for some in Haiku
Haiku :
Deep Root not today
Not to make a game at all
It will go away
Seven days of DeepRoot will never come
They went and hired that J pop bum
Root brags and drags
No games in the bag
I doubt they'll ever be done
Pig in a Poke
Deeproots played their big Joke
Investors they lure
Wishing profits to occur
In the end the company goes Broke
1 week later
Quoted from cpr9999:
Pinball rule #1.
Need to actually play it - to make decision. So many people have said game looks great but it sucks OR just the opposite too!!
Don't need to play this one. You can see this is a hot mess and after so much delay, this is it ?
About the only thing I thought looked fair to decent were some of the animations.
Still not sold on the pinbar. No thanks. That's a waste and if that's where a bunch of time was spent, it was time wasted that should have went elsewhere. Not needed and not wanted.
Production Line ????????? - Probably will not be necessary. I still don't see this getting off the ground.
If this were the Pinball Builders Fair best I could do is award a participation ribbon or trophy.
Exactly what I was thinking - solderless ? How many crappy molex or other new "innovative" connectors they come up with going to do ?
Agree with Levi - that sounds like a recipe for troubles.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
If you go solderless at coils that’s definitely no bueno.
Exactly !
Quoted from John_I:
The do use solderless *especially* where there is constant vibration. I dare anyone to show me a soldered pin on a connector in a car or a SpaceX rocket for that matter. What happens is that the solder wicks up into the strands of the wire and makes it really stiff. Where the solder stops, the wire is flexible again. That interface between the flexible and stiff part of the wire is a natural place that it will break off after being exposed to vibration.
For pinball coils, I like the spade connectors Williams used on later games or a short pigtail with a molex connector. Nothing wrong with soldering direct to the coil either, but this conversation is about "connectors".
Did Deeproot makes claims that their pin is air worthy ? Guess I missed that. When pigs fly - or for that matter pinball machines.
Spade connectors on a coil suck. It's a pinball machine, not an airplane. I'll take solder thanks. Not flying my pinball machine today or driving it down the road.
The PinBar is a cool concept. But it's just another screen. It displays info and takes input, neither of those are an innovation. I like how it helps add players. But I'm worried with how much DR talks about narrative and how that might cause the game to stop constantly and request input on it. It's also why the lack of inserts on RAZA is concerning, means the game progression has to show up someplace other than the PF. Guarantee that's a headache for Bowden and whoever is coding it.
IMO the Stranger Things projection mapping is a much cooler innovation. (albeit an ancient concept) Granted the game isn't the best and the projector could be brighter (though it looks better in person) it's still a cool way to add diversity to an otherwise fairly static PF. It's like Pinball 2000 but doesn't add 200 lbs.
And it bears repeating that Millenials and Gen Z (the people actually plunking down location money) like pinball BECAUSE it is retro. I don't think boomer designers get this. They're in a mindset of "what do the kids like I know phones!" and we get Dialed In and The PinBar.
Young people are obsessed with VHS, tape decks, the 80s, vinyl records in the same way Boomers were obsessed with cowboys and colt pistols. The innovation shouldn't be a dumb LCD but how we can use today's amazing sensors and robotics to make the real physical PF come alive in a way that's more exciting and tangible than games on your phone.
DR has talked about everything BUT the game with RAZA. Hopefully their other stuff will be better. But this is a dud. There's no magic just a bunch of color and lights.
I'd give 5 upvotes on this post if I could. Read the whole post again.
Dang this thread is nasty to DR.
They should just fold now and this bitch thread would go away...Anyone have a positive outlook these days?
Here's a little positivity for you Jim - a smiley. 
Happy Thanksgiving.
2 weeks later
I think I'd rather take my chances with Project Pinball Charity.
At least the odds of actually getting a game are better - only 1 in 200.
And it's only $50 and the money is going to a great spot.
Hit the pinbar and the establishment your in brings your beer and food order out to you at the pinball game. Saves you 20 steps going up to the bar to order.
Asshat could be a good game. Right up there with Food Truck. Maybe at the next stop for jpop. Jpop 5.0
They asking for money now. Not surprising the “communication” has suddenly improved.
Not improved much. Unless asking for deposits $ with no production line is an improvement. Well, maybe in their case about as improved as it can get I suppose.
Common John - I know you are in for a Food Truck, put it right next to Octoberfest.
Food and Beer!
I'll wait - probably see it reinvented as Roach Coach at jpops next stop in the pinball world.
We probably won't see Food Truck anyway.
How many RAZA did you put in your shopping cart ? Hurry up and buy before the ordering window closes.
You can be confident that DR isn't re-inventing electronics assembly. It's a large industry full of both large and small volume companies doing this domestically... and I'm not talking about Pinball -- I'm talking electronics. People who designing, running, and optimizing those processes is their actual lifelong career... supported by their engineering and QA teams to drive efficiencies and quality. This is not some wild west frontier waiting for a golden child to show up and have an 'ah ha' moment and revolutionize manufacturing. Counter to Robert's boasts... they didn't have some silver bullet solution. Which is why years later, all they could do is wave their hands and talk plans about the future... months after they were supposed to be launched.
The reason people dismiss those scenarios is because there is lots of real world experience here to detect their claims as a smoke show. Add into that the long history of lack of credibility... and get what you have here.
People aren't entertaining those scenarios because they know better.
Multiple upvotes on this if I could.
Quoted from wrb1977:
In on a RAZA Arcade Edition...order #100087!
I’m definitely excited but at the same time I’m not naive and fully understand and accept the risks involved with supporting them. I exchanged a few more emails with deeproot and feel comfortable with my decision to go with the 10% deposit option. I’m hoping it all works out...time will tell!
Best of Luck - Really. Hope it turns out well for you.
Quoted from BallPin:
Yah, it's the only forum that someone wished my family got covid and that I have a baby with autism. That is the first time in my life anyone has ever said that, and first time I heard anyone say it to someone else. That is pretty extreme.
That's pretty rotten.
Quoted from kermit24:
That’s interesting. Wonder how many games distros are purchasing.
Do they have any actual official Deep Root Distributors ??
@ CrazyLevi - I am sure there will be a diagnostic pinbar mirror that you will attach to the head of the game. Then you can see the pinbar in the raised position. If your dyslexic it will be easy enough to make out what's happening. They are still working on how you would access the touch screen though. Still figuring out the innovation on that. It will all be good. No worries.
They may hand build 30-40 of these for zidware compensation - they might pull that off. Beyond that who knows. I would not expect much.
Without a real production line they are toast.
Sorry @ cpr9999 - I don't have a positive other than maybe some zidware guys might sorta have a half a chance to be made whole.
Hopefully production line and not an unemployment line.
If they have 186 orders there are some gutsy or optimistic people out there betting they can make games.
Rubber is going to meet the road the next few months. Do they do it or more excuses ?
Wish anybody with deposits best of luck.
They will definitely need a line now... up to 186 in pre-order thread
I have nothing vested in this pinball or DR.
.......More pinball is good.
I say good luck!
You have common sense. I would add this cavet though to "More pinball is good" - it's only good if promises are kept and games get made. If not, another debacle just makes it harder for anybody to have confidence in any future start ups.
Good Luck to those who have dropped money on deposits and those waiting on other promises from the zidware make up deals.
I hope Santa Claus comes. Maybe the elves in the North Pole can put the games together after Christmas is over.
At least Santa has a production line.
More Santa is good.
Santas elves making the games is plausible. It would keep the workshop going after Christmas, but I think Jpop and Robert might be on the naughty list.
Don't know if Santa is keen with taking any partnerships or work from folks on the naughty list.
A yeah - look at your avatar - HoHoHo. Of course you like Santa Claus.
Santa is their best bet. Too bad about the naughty list though. Throws a big wrench in the works. More delays.
There is no reputation or history yet? The last 5 years didn't happen?
Hey - cpr9999 IS Santa Claus. Of course he takes a lighter view of it all. He is working to get Jpop and Robert off the naughty list. If the elves in his workshop can make the games it's one step toward Santa's goal. The elves might be a tough sell though on all that work after Christmas. That would keep them busy well beyond next Christmas and how would the toys get made. That's a problem.
So Santa is watching is what you're saying ?
Come on - Open up the workshop - lets see the line of elves !
FYI, If they successfully fill all orders wether that is 100 or 200 and Zidware customers get theirs along with new people we should all be singing praises to DR.
PM sent. I better not post what my response to that is. 
Actually I emailed you... Check your mail. ... My response might not have even made it past the PM system.
Ya'll do realize that quad & octo manufacturing were never really a thing right? Just more "bullshit JPOP words" to slap on a flyer like "Quickstep solenoids"
Hopefully for the buyers they have something real setup.
I was thinking the Octo manufacturing was the use of an Octopus putting the games together.
For me, RAZA / DR is intriguing to watch.
I think they would have done 500+ game orders for RAZA if they would have went through distributors that held the down payment.
1. Like a train wreck.
2. Pffft - not a chance. I don't think they got any interest from any legit distributor anyhow.
I think you have been working from home too long. Lay off the cheap beer or booze. 
Fair enough.
I suspect the “rounded up” production numbers at $8/$13k will sell no problem.
Also, their next title will tell more. Sounds like their pinball platform is developed so we will understand their future pricing model.
Time will tell....
Your thinking like Deeproot is a company equivalent to say - Rockwell or something. No No - More like Shamwow .
Quoted from Yelobird:
Lol. The Shamwow company did 3-5 Million in sales of Rags. What a fail?
Innovation.
Don't think Deeproot pinball will do as well as the magical innovative rag though.
The comparison was more big time vs Mickey Mouse. (Don't bring up Disney) You missed the point.
Quoted from TreyBo69:
Shamwow is a great hustle. Aggressive sales technique on a very cheap to produce item
Pinball is not that lol.
Yup this is a hustle too - won't turn out like Shamwow. They were shooting for that early on though Ferrari type pin with Kia pricing or what ever they were spouting at one time.
Hey - they missed doing the pinrag, for cleaning your game !
Quoted from Roostking:
My take, they dont even deliver a pin to customers, so all of this is irrelevant. Production is the hard part...
They may get a handful out the door eventually, but with what issues etc ? Don't like it, but my gut says it won't be good.
I do hope though for those who are owed games or those that put down a deposit they get games eventually and without a bunch of trouble or unforeseen developments.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess less than 5 games out by end of January.
Lead times for parts are crazy right now. In January They will only be able to build machines they already have parts for.
I'd guess similar, but say end of February if it happens. If they can do it, I think it takes a couple months to build first small handful of games.
Would not be surprised in the least after 30-60 days nothing happens and then they "revise" their production schedule.
First uplifting post.
Quoted from spfxted:
....and now....a 5 minute break....
[quoted image]
Quoted from spinal:
The quad (octo) manufacturing system is top secret and would be immediately stolen and implemented by competitors if seen. It’s innovative and much more efficient than existing methods and this is why you can count on games being out the door, on schedule, 3 maybe 5 weeks from now. It’s a no-brainer. Plus RM gave his word to those laying down deposits.
It's using an Octopus to put together games.
@ cpr9999
There has been at least one very uplifting post. ( If you page back a few pages or look at the picture gallery you will find it )
As far as pitchforks I don't see that, but there is good picture of a shit spreader a few posts above.
1 week later
Nope.
Main reason is to get the liability out of the way upfront on this title. Bury the shit storm and move on to next title.
Shit Storm ? , is that before Food Truck, or before or after RAZA 
Read this one again and connect the dots.
Your first point applies no matter which game they sold... so its moot to the discussion over which title to build. Sales would not be capped once you got the game into the market and let it prove itself.
Second point - that is actually revisionist history. Remember when robert promised multiple titles at launch and all available immediately? NOW they say they have to ramp up slowly... so that is a late change, not a choice that would have picked which title is first here at nearly the end of raza’s development. So trying to say that drove the choice is just backwards.
And even if it were true, the number one motivator and de-risk element to INVESTING in production capacity is sales. If they had a big backlog of sales, they’d have less issue with spending to speed up their production quality and output.
Your third point only hold true because THEY made it that way. This is again circular logic. It can’t support the choice because the choice is what made that true to start with.
Four and five make sense as schemes to front load sales as much as possible... but don’t make sense to sell raza as a long term product. These are again choices that make sense only after you know you have made the choice to NOT try to sell the game as a full fledged product. So again... circular logic...
At the end of the day... raza will be a project that robert mueller spent millions on and never will see a penny of profit. They could have made different runs... but they instead chose to try to create FOMO to get as big of a single run as possible and then move on. For a product that would never had turned a profit no matter what they charged for it. Revenue comes through VOLUME ... and they chose to literally stop any sales for their company.
This says he doesn’t care about cash flow... yet the company has been cutting costs... draw your own conclusions
I'd like to see the promised pictures of the parking lot. Guesses as to how many vehicles are there ?
Think maybe they are ramping up to push games out the doors 
No I don't think most of it's about drama - I think a lot of the posts are just plain facts, and reasonable thought toward probable outcomes - nobody likes to see people get burned. If there is drama, it's a by product of how things don't line up on multiple levels, the history involved and time that has passed.
Just doesn't look good where I'm sitting. Some have optimism. Wish them luck, but I don't think this will turn out well in the end.
Quoted from iceman44:
Exactly, how else would you know what to ramp up for?
So I'll swing by sometime tomorrow and do the "counting cars in the parking lot" observation.
How many cars in the parking lot ?
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
San Diego, CAYou're currently viewing posts by Pinsider noquarters.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Hey there! Got a moment?
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside
