(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

4 years ago

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98 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (4 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (2 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (2 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (2 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (2 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (2 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (2 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (2 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (2 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#342 3 years ago

Am I the only one here that's reading between the lines that deeproot is using the law as a weapon and bullying/strong arming apple juice,zombie yeti, American pinball and anyone/everyone else they can. Also stealing Ben heck's bible adventures theme?
I can't be the only one here that sees this.

3 months later
#810 3 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Did they ever announce what their "Quad Assembly" is going to be?

They will, in two weeks.

2 months later
#1175 3 years ago

I expect anything/everything jpop does to be a rehash of everything he has already done. He will continue to recycle the same ramps, magnet set up he has already used on Tom,totan,wcs94, and cv.
The guy has nothing left, he blew his wad in the 90's.
Now The rest of team deeproot I'm looking forward to seeing What they can come up with and I wish them all great success.

#1177 3 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Sort of like how 95% of Stern pinball machines have a ramp on each side that returns the ball to the inlanes? Or how steve ritchie admits his lower half is EXACTLY the same on every game he designs? Not that I want to defend JPOP, but he does have some good concepts, he just sucks at implementing them.

Can't argue that. Some designers have gotten very complacent in their designs. If it worked once, reuse it 5-6 more times.

2 months later
#1823 3 years ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Pinside less than 1 year.. What position do you hold at deeproot?

Salad tosser.

8 months later
#4107 2 years ago

Ice mans in pinside jail?
Where do I send the twinkle’s with the files in them?
Hang tough iceman.

#4108 2 years ago
Quoted from mrgone:

Ice mans in pinside jail?
Where do I send the twinkie’s with the files in them?
Hang tough iceman.

4 months later
#5512 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

Where is the innovation?

Yup. Let’s review.
Ramps, ok. Some cool stuff there but nothing mind blowing.
Some sculpted figures,
Nothing new.
A moving target. Nothing new.
A toy on a spring, see Star Wars,
A Ferris wheel, see cyclone and hurricane.
Maybe some magnets,see every other jpop game.

Nice art, very reminiscent of Big Bang bar as far as color palette goes.
Cool theme, I guess. So, in a nut shell.
Nothing we haven’t seen before.
Nothing mind blowing or really innovative.
What will really sell this? Price, and ruleset.
If it shoots well it could be a fun game.
But I’m not overly impressed with what I’ve seen yet.
But it’s all about how it plays.
We will wait and see.

#5711 2 years ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

Indeed, and the shooter lane looks like it ramps up to ride out on another flat plastic.
That's a cool concept. Think of how many flat plastics there are in pinball that basically are unused space. They usually have some ugly posts on them to avoid ball traps. In this game they actually use flat plastics as part of ball paths. Unique.

Been done before. See black rose.
The shot off of the left ramp loops around and returns to the upper right flipper via flat plastics.
So again, where are the innovations?

#5927 2 years ago

Let’s roll back the clock.
1999, jpop designs his last, real, functional pinball game that is actually produced and shipped.
Star Wars episode 1.
It sucks.
Some years later, he designed sizzle games.
They are what they are.
Zidware, designs no functioning games but takes a lot of money.
2015, pintasia tries to get a working prototype to the north west show.
It’s a barely functioning train wreck.
American pinball hires John to make Houdini.
It’s a box with lights. He then makes a couple dozen more boxes of lights called magic girl.
John working for more than 2 years at deeproot working on a game he has already been working on for 5 years.
This is the end result of 7 years folks.
7 years and this is what the guy gives the pinball world.
Please, place these words into your brain for easy recall.
Jpop is not a genius.
He is a bat shit crazy, sociopath. He cons everyone he meets into buying his bullshit.

Hopefully, after this shit show Robert will pull his head out of his ass and fire him and let anyone, ANYONE else design a game.
That is the only chance deeproot has of ever getting a game out that anyone wants and will actually play.

#5943 2 years ago

I still really want to play it.
But I’m less excited Tran before to reveal.
With all the talk deeproot did I really was expecting much more.
I still look forward to what Dennis Norman, Barry Oursler and the rest of the team can deliver.
I simply have zero faith in jpop.

#5947 2 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

point to us on the doll where jPop touched you

Well played sir. That made me chuckle.

#5993 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I'm not going to keep feeding the trolls in here.
My final word is that I really enjoyed playing it, and I wanted to play it more.

Quoted from zaphX:

I'm not going to keep feeding the trolls in here.
My final word is that I really enjoyed playing it, and I wanted to play it more.

Glad you like it.
Thank you to all for providing some video and feedback.

1 month later
#7200 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Shasta and select lunch meats?

Post of the Fukien year sir! Bravo!!!

2 months later
#7948 1 year ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

I have to say, this thread gets the Seinfeld award. Almost 8000 posts about nothing. I saw it getting hot and low and behold, it was about Robert being racist now. At this point I never want to see the pins released at risk of this thread dying
Keep it going Deeproot thread about nothing![quoted image]

No soup for you!

6 months later
#10145 1 year ago

“It’s magic” jpop.

#10843 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Dear rich people:
At what point will you realize this?
Signed, Anyone who's known him.

post of the year!

#11246 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

With all of these titles on the "drawing board" how many games a year do they expect to produce let's say in 2021?
It takes 300 employees at Stern to crank out about 18,000 pins.
Is this gonna be a Spooky level production? 750 games every 18 months?
Where is the assembly line? How many employees?
No answers to common sense questions.

“It’s magic” jpop.

1 week later
#11956 1 year ago

ben heck is on the latest K podcast.

even if you are not a fan of K. you really should listen as Ben Heck lays it out. he is professional and respectful but speaks the simple truth on jpop, Robert, and deeproot.
its really worth a listen.

#12071 1 year ago

It’s painfully obvious that Robert has drank the jpop kool aid and has a serious bromance going on.

The bad is that some really good and talented people will be hurt by this when the wheels finally come off.
Hopefully, this will be the final nail in the coffin for jpop and everyone on the planet will know what a cancerous turd he is.

1 month later
#13151 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

. Where does JPOP fail up to next?

Illinois state senator?

1 week later
#13189 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Dead horse got‘em to (marginally) update their website.

And no one cares said all the villagers to the boy who cried wolf.

#13529 1 year ago

dr: We intend for our final games to be better quality than what currently exists, more profitably made. We will not be selling more than one model for each title which will simplify a lot of things behind the scenes.

from robert interview with twip.
nearly 3 years ago.
has this clown ever told the truth about anything?

2 weeks later
#13912 12 months ago

Robert, nothing but a liar, and a con man..
Jpop. Cheap, 2 bit, low rent, con man.

Raza, an abomination 7 years in the making.

When Iceman, a zidware customer who was promised a tour of the plant, was threatened with legal action for asking for a tour he was promised. After Iceman publicly supported the company on this site. And some of you are still thinking these clowns are legit?

Dudes, wise up.

The best thing that could ever happen for pinball is for these two to be completely removed from pinball forever.
They are a cancer.

#13921 12 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m awaiting a response on email I just sent to Robert and the lawyer
Yeah the plant tour is in their own Goodwill Agreement
The last update I got was in June and it said they expected to deliver games by September under the Agreement.
Again, their words
I just need some info here

I’ve got nothing but respect for you iceman. Your level of patience and professionalism in this situation is admirable.

#13942 12 months ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

by introducing such a program now, it comes across as if they are fishing for complete ready-to-go games, which could mean that their work in progress games are exactly that - works in progress.

Work in progress= foam core with some blinking lights and really pretty art. And of course, the pinbar. Screen protector sold separately.

#14455 11 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I was with you until Topps. The baseball card company?

Tops owns Mars attacks trading cards.
From the 50’s or 60’s.
It’s what the movie was based on.
Very loosely based on.

#14608 11 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Dang, I thought this thread was bad....that LZ thread is brutal.

Yeah, it’s like thunder dome over there.

2 months later
#16094 9 months ago

#waiting for deeproot to fail.
It’s only a matter of time.

#16195 9 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

Hateful energy? Hardly. I’m laughing my ass off at all this. I wish no one ill will, but honestly, I don’t care if the RAZA buyers get their games or not.
After 11 full years of sham after sham and skim after scam concerning multiple games by multiple people (and sometimes the same person FOUR different times...cough, JPOP, cough) - all FULLY chronicled here on Pinside - if people want to go in on this venture with their eyes wide shut...who really cares? I sure don’t. I’m just enjoying the sheer entertainment value. Which is off the charts and just gets better with every missive from RM esq.
I know I’m not alone and I doubt I’m even in the minority.

This!!! You nailed it sir.

#16379 9 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's always more fun to produce 10 different imaginary pinball machines than 1 actual existing one.

1 month later
#17654 7 months ago
Quoted from dc2010:

Does seem awfully HIGH

Quoted from benheck:

Well, he does suck.


1 month later
#18345 6 months ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Could he actually fail up from DR ? Is there anyone to buy out their assets and promise to make Zidware AND DR customers whole ? Is this some karmic pinball reincarnation miracle we are all witnessing. Nobody ever gets a pinball machine because it can never actually be finished.

“There’s a sucker born every minute and two to take him.”
P.T. Barnum.
So, yes, there is another follower of the jpop great pumpkin that will scream from the roof tops, you’ll see. This time it’s for sure!
We(insert latest rube here) have the most sincere pinball factory anywhere!
The jpop will see we are the most sincere and deliver his wonderful creations to the people with candy, and popcorn, and balloons!
You’ll see! This time it will be different!

Oh, and when all finally collapses, Robert will blame pinside. And all the chumps over at the raza buyers and Mark’s thread will piss n whine that it’s all our fault. Especially Ben heck! If we would have only drank the cool aide and chowed down on jpop cock like all the other marks then everything would have been Jim dandy!

It’s all Ben heck’s fault because he would not tow the party line and play along that jpop is the messiah.

2 months later
#20732 4 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:Meh... I think Metallica showed them how big of a reaction and how well the market would respond. But it still took them 4 more years of uninspired stuff like GOT, Mustang, etc before they tried again with Yeti and Ghostbusters. I think Ghostbusters was the moment that while it was not the first, it was the moment around which people pivoted to embrace the art style as a lead feature again.

I spoke to Dirty Donny at the 2019 Golden State Pinball Festival.
He told me that when stern was negotiating with Metallica to do the game that stern wanted nothing to do with Donny or his art.
Metallica put their foot down and said no Donny, no game.

So we partly have Metallica to thank for the renaissance in good pinball art.

#20873 4 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh: The wall to keep deeproot out was built when Robert talked endless trash.

Don’t shit where you eat.

#21098 4 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Well, I mean, in case you haven't been tracking the multiple threads, it is becoming increasingly apparent that most people on this site will find a way to defend anything as long as they may be getting something out of it and it didn't directly impact them.

It reminds me of the great pumpkin.
Some of the raza folks are like Linus.

This time is different. They will make raza and we faithful will get the greatest game ever made.

You’ll see, jpop and Robert will reward us faithful with a game so awesome it will solve world hunger. You’ll see. This time is different. This time we will get our games.

#21403 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Anybody who follows my work here knows I'm fond of saying "if Pinside ran Stern, they'd be out of business in a month."
Deep Root is that ethos embodied in real life. An enterprise completely detached from not only reality itself, but what pinball buyers actually want. Deep Root took seriously the fanciful flights of your noobiest of noobs, claiming they want "innovation" when all they really want is meat and potatoes pinball.
As soon as things like the "PinBar" entered the picture - useless "innovation" with poor real world application, just for the sake of innovating - this enterprise was doomed. Nonsense like this isn't actually "pinball," and there's no need or even want for stuff like this in the pinball marketplace. Basing an entire pinball company on the warped premise of "innovation" was always doomed to failure. Nobody really wants or needs "innovation" in pinball in 2021, they just want good games that actually exist and are fun to play. Pinball flipper games have been around for 70 years, and at this point, we know what works for players, operators, and the industry itself.
So I guess I have to amend my earlier statement....if Pinside built a pinball company from the ground up, with seemingly unlimited resources, and ran it according the whims of Pinside's most "innovative" thinkers...they'd be out of business in....what is it, four years?
Doesn't roll off the tongue quite as nicely, but it still rings true.
So next time you are chastising Stern for not including four animatronic ewoks in their latest Star Wars pin, or lamenting the lack of a playfield fog machine, or 3 lower playfields, or self adjusting leg levelers and 12 flipper buttons...just try to remember: it's a business, not a fantasy.
Fantasy always is more appealing than reality, but reality pays the bills, keeps people employed, and puts games in our basements. Try to remember that.


#21468 4 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because no matter how many times they get burnt by their lover - they still want the JPOP dream...

Quoted from flynnibus:

The dude said from the start he didn't want to be like every other pinball company... Selling pinballs isn't what he set out to do.
My guess is once the dust settles a RM will come out of the woodwork and blame COVID and his team's inability to deliver on the vision as why the company failed...

both robert and john will blame pinside. mark my words.

#22114 3 months ago
Quoted from benheck:

Hey remember how Robert wanted to make a real version of Windows 95 Space Cadet.exe?
Now THERE'S a guy with his finger on the pulse of what the hobby wants, lemme tell ya!

#22186 3 months ago

Does anyone here remember the pinsider that kept posting, I’ve seen magic girl, I’ve played it! It’s 90% complete!
He kept shouting this from the rooftops until pintasia showed up. Looked at the game. Got an outside contractor to do emergency ramp builds, the team spent several sleepless nights transporting, and working on the prototype just to get a basic flipping game to work at the northwest show.

You all remember that? I sure do.
As soon as the pintasia team outed the mouth, he slithered away and closed his pinside account.

Now we have the same thing going on again over at the jpop suck fest thread.

Rarehero is completely correct. Deeproot is a cult.

Everyone that went in on this obvious scam deserves what they get.
The only folks that aren’t deserving are the original zidware claimants.

From then on the evidence was clear.
Jpop is a fraud.
He can’t design shit.

And he keeps conning others that he is the real deal.
He’s not.

#22211 3 months ago


#22229 3 months ago

The thief and the cobbler is one of my all time favorite animated films.

#22261 3 months ago
Quoted from Tonic67:

The red flag was back when this company and their leader promised something when none of them, especially the leader had not ever in the past delivered anything.
I cannot understand why people continue to give money to these pinball start ups and their slick salesman when they have never demonstrated the ability or capacity to deliver a product.

Many are so desperate to have the new, rare, shiny. They are desperate to be the cool kid for a time.
That and the, “it’s the next Big Bang bar”!
That lightning has struck and will likely not ever strike again.

#22340 3 months ago

Imagine a world where Bobby pinball and jpop end up on late night tv to shlep the most innovative pinball game ever created.
I give you, the deeproot infomercial.
Don’t put it past those fuckers.

#22385 3 months ago

Look everyone, see the picture? That’s a pic of spooky pinball, making Halloween games.

Where are the pics, heck, where is a single picture of derproot making a game?

There are none. They haven’t made a single game. Not one.
Deeproot, Bobby pinball and jpop are nothing but 3rd rate, dime store con men.

69188283-DA00-4151-BE1E-EC68117F9DEB (resized).png
#22827 3 months ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

@ greatwichjohn I don't think anybody is actually meaning to insult you, but based on the history of everything tied to deeproot, Jpop,zidware and RM it's highly unlikely anybody with any common sense whatsoever want's anything to do with that failed fiasco. The vague posts and innuendo that some secret savior or contractor or whatever is going to bail this out is just strange. There is just too much stink and history behind it all. Nobody is going to hitch their wagon to this dead horse. Apologies on comments of keeping the caps tight on the paint cans - just my way of saying I think it's all incredible talking points.
I bet you are an awesome guy - help out your operator friends and local pinheads, play some pinball and don't take this thread too seriously. The only thing that's serious is people were taken, losing their money and it will happen again in the future if people don't open their eyes. Some even repeat this folly repeatedly and that is baffling. Deeproot couldn't fail more if they were trying to do that. Inferences the ship can be righted or somebody else would pick up this mess frankly seems a bit goofy to most of us and puzzling .

This times 1,000,000.
Why is it everyone EVERYONE that gets involved with jpop automatically becomes this super duper double whammy top secret society club. Double naught spy bull shit?

You want to make a game? Make the fucking game. If it’s any good at all we will buy it.

Easy isn’t it? Great which John, you have gone right past full retard to potato with your top secret I’ve said to much bull shit. EVERYONE HERE IS TIRED OF THE BULL SHIT!!!!!
Your pals want to make a game. Tell em to come on here, throw their hat into the ring and let’s get it done.
Otherwise, go the fuck away.
No one wants Another 10 years of its magic and this time for sure rocky.

#22865 3 months ago

Let’s all be bigger people.
Let’s all send Bobby pinball soap on a rope at his new home.
Cell block c.

#22867 3 months ago

“There’s a sucker born every minute and two to take him.”
P.T. Barnum.

#22878 3 months ago

The sad part here is that there are a bunch of retired folks that have had their money taken from them. They are probably really screwed.
The folks here that are out some money will probably not be financially ruined.

#22880 3 months ago

Ok Ben, it’s story time.

#23205 3 months ago

Robert’s new theme song.

#23302 3 months ago

Question, will Robert’s cell mate ask “where’s the pinbar”. when he is getting ready to make sweet love to his new prison wife?

#23752 3 months ago

Seriously, the best part of today was hearing Ben Heck do his jpop impersonation.
I would seriously pay money to hear more of that.

#24207 3 months ago
Quoted from soapblox:

The best part from the SEC document:
"Mueller also used more than $1.5 million of the Funds’ assets to pay hundreds of personal expenses, including his daughter’s private school tuition, vacations with his family, his second wedding, his second divorce, his third wedding, jewelry for both his second and third wives (including engagement rings and wedding bands for both wives), other lifestyle spending for and by his family, and to buy a condominium in Kauai, Hawaii. When asked by SEC counsel during investigative testimony about his use of the Funds’ assets to pay for these personal and family expenses, Mueller asserted his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination."
Living the dream...

Well no shit. He pleaded the fifth.
What a surprise.

#24272 3 months ago

Can we, from here on out, refer to jpop as popo the clown? It just sounds right to me.

#24378 3 months ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO
[quoted image]

hey, at least you could actually buy a thunderbirds. someone actually made a few of them. put them in boxes and shipped them. and everything!

#24634 3 months ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

That is not shown with JPOP & Ben. John is showing how stuff is put on paper on that foamboard or test board. Art does sell, we have seen that with JPOP dreams brought to life with great artists. Along with others to get a few games made. He definitely needs serious management & help to get anything done.

Dude, you’re not supposed to drink the bong water.

2 weeks later
#25745 84 days ago

Subase Pearl Harbor, 86-89

#25769 83 days ago


Quoted from Bublehead:

By shear size, it will be hard to top a $59M pinzi scheme... did I just coin a new term? Pinzi Scheme?

Yes, you did. Thank you.
Mods, please add pinzi scheme to the lexicon.

#25781 83 days ago

Heard in Ben heck’s best mocking jpop voice,
“Your honor, I submit that I’m the master teacher! Teacher! Bally Williams days! Teacher! Pinball college!!!!!!!!!”

#25810 82 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The criminals are still alive & not in prison. Thread stays open until there is accountability for their actions.

Sounds good to me.
We close down this thread when Bobby pinball tosses his 1st salad.

2 weeks later
#26049 67 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

All that Molex - if the fraud hadn't killed them the parts shortages would have. Sheesh.
The FET driver board is baffling. They're got a PARALLEL header going to it (welcome to 1979!) which then goes through a 74HC245 octal transceiver.
This tells us whose system they ripped off (CGC) but problem is a 245 isn't a latch (a latch stores a bit state such as "lamp on") It's a transceiver, something you'd more likely see in a Neo Geo multi-cart system or a Playchoice 10. (such as "attach the 8 bit bus to *this* ROM, or this one...")
These boards would have to connect to a dedicated driver board with persistent logic (such as an octal flip-flop) meaning even more connectors. And more integrated circuits. VS Stern where they just drive a bunch of shift registers with 3 I/O lines
As someone said above, these connectors were likely Robert's "mental midget" idea of "SMT and THROUGH HOLE POWER COMBINED!" but again... would have cost him a bleeding fortune.
Oh, I see. If a FET blows you'd just swap out the module of 8 (they're dual FETs) Sounds good on paper but he's spending dollars on connectors to save cents on through-hole FETs (the real cost is placement not the part)
I do spy what appears to be a current sensor so that's a smart addition. (also expensive)

Ok. So the simple math is these guys have/had no idea what they were doing.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm sure it will be the most whimsical and magical courtroom defense ever!!!
Oh the whimsy! Will he show up to court in a handlebar mustache and a top hat? Perhaps a big cape? Will he use old-timey mouthpiece talk and perhaps wave a cane around as the jury falls under the spell of his 19th century huckster charm offensive?
Who knows what treats are in store in Jpop's Magical Whimsy Splendiphourus Courtroom Fantastical?!?! What literal and figurative rabbits will he pull out of his giant stovetop hat in his defense?
I for one cannot wait! I pray I can send money somewhere to make it happen as quickly as possible.

1 week later
#26231 59 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:Your passive/aggressive crusade has been odd and confusing to say the least. And your children will learn far worse in the streets so good luck in protecting them from that.
Here's an article you might find interesting. The subtitle is, "People who swear like a sailor are more honest and more intelligent"

in my defense, I was a sailor.

#26282 57 days ago

Is it made out of foam core?

1 week later
#26422 47 days ago

The ghost of Christmas future presents,
Robert mueller in...............................

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