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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

360 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (6 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (5 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#27799 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from benheck:

Regarding original themes:
Stern just sold 1000 LEs of fucking RUSH in a few hours.

Yeah, but I'm thinking at least 1/3 of those are immediate/future flippers. With the resale price of recent LE's through the friggin' roof(like GB), it's not entirely dumb to try this route for making a quick buck. The massive price increase on the LE's cut into that quite a bit, but I've already seen people offering 16k for an LE, so it might not be a bad idea, for at least a little while. I'm guessing that price increase and the doubling of the total LE's by Stern is looking like it was a great idea to Gary right about now, too. It wasn't all that long ago that LE's were $8499 all day long. There's no way that production costs increased that much in that short of a time. Everybody is trying to cash in on current crazy market conditions. Worse comes to worse you end up with a fun pinball machine.

Gotta say, though. Kinda looks like a reworked Austin Powers. The drop target-to-locked ball-to-newton ball is a pretty trick little system, though.

1 month later
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#28149 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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Telescoping and turn-able conveyor/roller table. You're pretty much correct.

1 week later
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#28235 2 years ago
 
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Miguel351

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I'm one of the extremely few people out there that would've been a key demographic for an Intellivision-based nostalgia console. There was a point in time in home console history where it was either Intellivision or Atari 2600. We went with Intellivision as the games were way better at the time, we felt. Plus it had the speech synthesizer which was a fun add-on for the few games that used it. I remember playing the games in the store(I think it was at a Best store) at one of their huge kiosks and absolutely loving it. post-30718-0-17428400-1552073844 (resized).jpgpost-30718-0-17428400-1552073844 (resized).jpg

I still have my original Intellivision and even my Intellivision II and all the games and boxes they all came in. Then, ColecoVision came out with their almost perfect Donkey Kong arcade port, and we jumped on that ship immediately as my whole family was huge into going to arcades on a Friday or Saturday night and spending about $20 in a night on games(which was a lot back then and would last us a couple hours or more). Coleco kept bringing more and more arcade games home and we kept buying them. I still have our ColecoVision and all the games and peripherals that we added along the way.

I've been following the whole Amico mess from the start. I never invested, I never would. I want to see a finished product and let all the early adopters do all the impromptu beta testing before I commit funds to something. But the only thing I would've wanted for the Amico would be a console full of reimagined original Intellivision games. The new Astrosmash had me very curious, but never seeing more than 5 seconds of gameplay was ridiculous. The new Night Stalker was the same situation: a nice looking update to a great game, but not for just a 5 second clip. If the console had nothing but reimagined original games, it might have actually been easier to make and easier to sell more of to the 40+ year old crowd this console should've been marketed to; you know, the kind with families that have kids that the parents want to play games with that aren't all explode-y and rape-y as Tommy puts it....

I think what happened was Tommy bought the license, had the idea for a nostalgia console after seeing the same basic thing started by others for the new Atari VCS, launched crowdfunding for his nostalgia console, saw the overwhelming(to him) response, then thought with that kind of money he could make it "bigger and better" and possibly even take on Nintendo and beat them at their own game, but over time realized that he was WAY in over his head and never had enough buckets to bail himself out of his over-promised sinking ship. The writing on the wall started when he announced "console exclusive" games for sale that have been free online for years.

If anything, after buying the license, he should've developed a few of the reimagined games, made them available on Xbox, PS, Switch, Steam and wherever else. Then, if they made money, continue to make a few more. Then when he had about 10-15 games done and successful, launch the console with those games as pack-ins and add a cartridge port to be able to play the original games, too. I would've bought something like that. Thankfully, if I want Intellivision nostalgia, I'll just turn mine on and pop in a few cartridges and play the real thing. No batteries, no flashing multi-color LEDs, no touchscreens, and zero input lag.

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#28286 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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Quoted from Rarehero:

I’m not sure if it was unused shells, or if Mike bought the original Jaguar shell mold/tooling.

From what I heard a number of years ago, Atari let the licensing/patent on the Jaguar mold lapse into public domain. Last I knew, anybody is still free to use it for whatever they want. Nothing says "custom built retro console" like preexisting parts that took zero effort and zero money to obtain and look like an older failed console!

3 weeks later
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#29284 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from vdojaq:

What I can come up with that seems plausible is RM was tipped off that shit was about to hit the fan with DR. RM reaches out to TuYo and makes the backdoor deal by exposing all the info needed for TuYo to realize the potential value in these policies. What's RM's fee? A cool couple of $Mil after all the dust has cleared? It's clean, and everyone walks away unscathed. There is just no way that this is an out of the blue aquisition attempt by TuYo.

This is very plausible.

What I think is also quite plausible is this was all part of the plan all along, hence the "poor record keeping". It's a long-con. All of this other stuff was going on and he had planned to launder enough money from all the other LLCs to fund turning a hobby of his into a business. It was working for a while but he knew things could turn on a dime as the pinball side wasn't going as planned and pinball folks, who are armed with a massive forum can get awfully nosy and vocal, started to murmur about said pinball company and he started calling his buddies to set up his exit strategy. A strategy that includes defaulting, a bankruptcy hearing, and an eventual sale that he could be the secret buyer in. Thereby, reducing his investment in all his assets by about 75%, increasing his profit potential almost exponentially. I don't think he factored in the SEC into all of this. But I think he thinks that even if he's sentenced in that hearing, he'll go to to a white collar, medium security prison for a year all while his secret buyout continues unfettered. Hopefully, that's not the case and he ends up in a "federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison".

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#29424 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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Honestly, I would've snatched up as many as those hard drives as I could find under the guise of "properly recycling" them. I guarantee there's still plenty of them that, when re-cased, would work just fine. Too often these days people think that just because you go all caveman on something and "hit it with rock, it go bad", when if they knew how to do it, they would've added nails to the mix and driven them through the plates.

1 week later
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#29913 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from benheck:

Let people cobble together a few more at home then LET IT DIE. It doesn't deserve to live.

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2 weeks later
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#30667 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from LeonSpinkx:

The Golden Johnson.

Reading this reply while watching The Office.... Michael Scott couldn't have done it better.

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#30776 2 years ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from slghokie:

I keep watching that video of the pull out rotating playfield and just laugh and laugh. It sums up the innovative failure that was deeproot

That's what proves this equation: When, Innovation > Usefulness = It's Over-Engineered

There's no real good reason for all that dohickeyism-contraptionery! It's not even built up strong enough to hold a fully populated playfield's weight, or even height. There's no way a RAZA playfield, with it's ramps and all the other crap on there would fit in that space between the playfield and the glass in that video. I can already think of a couple different ways to achieve the main function of that outward-extended playfield mech with only about three parts, not the 15-20 he's got going on there. Yikes!

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#30818 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from soren:

That being said (giggled) please note that this is a prototype. Everyone make prototypes and crazy builds only to scrap it afterwards. This one would have been scrapped as well.

True, but in most 3D modeling software, including SolidWorks(which is what I thought they were using), when you build an assembly, you can move it and articulate it to see how it would work before laying hand, or laser, to any kind of metal. It should have been easy to see even at that point that it was over-convoluted and didn't have enough space for all the playfield parts and pieces to be added.

It's the kind of mechanism you build when you have more time in computer modeling than you do in actual general fabrication.

3 weeks later
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#30988 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from benheck:

Producing a fever dream remake of Cyclone has now exceeded the time spent putting a man on the moon.
In a few short years it will eclipse the production cycle of Duke Nukem Forever. It will then enter its extended long term mission of taking long than The Thief and the Cobbler.

You forgot to include Chinese Democracy in your list...

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#31039 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

I'm beginning to think that RM knew long ago that things were going to end up this way. When he could see the writing on the wall for all his other companies starting to unravel, he started the wheels turning as to how he was going to keep the pinball stuff going but this time as the silent partner/owner. Knowing how these kinds of proceedings go down, and what to expect from the SEC as far as the process and any potential jail time, he knew what would need to be done and how long all this stuff would take. This is when he got his buddy involved to buy up all the pertinent assets from the failed pinball company as well as the insurance policies, both for pennies on the dollar(well, maybe dimes on the dollar).

Suddenly, TuYo is in a spot where they somehow absconded with all the code(an intangible property that can't really be sold at auction, a legal grey area at best), a number of machines fairly close to being finished, and a potential income source from either reselling those insurance policies or cashing them out or whatever. All of this with RM secretly pulling the strings behind the scenes, possibly even with money he hid away somewhere offshore. The loss of their parts inventory and all the machinery really isn't that big of a deal. It's much easier to copy a pinball machine that's done than to come up with one from scratch. Essentially, that part's already done. With a legal purchase of Deeproot's IP comes either the continuation of, or the initiation of copyrights and patents on everything they've got, thereby putting the kibosh on anybody else trying to run off with their work in the aftermath of DR's bankruptcy.

I foresee them finishing up about three machines, announcing it as a "new, improved" version with "bigger, better" whatevers, and then trying to either get the game made by a third party(Spooky, AP, Dutch, or whomever), or announcing their retooling to start producing games in house, again. I'm also guessing that the time table will be about a year or so before anything really concrete gets announced or revealed, then later, games start shipping right about when RM gets out of medium security prison.

It's all a fairly decent long-con. A bit obvious, but it might work. I don't know how legal all of this is, but you gotta give him credit for trying! The one thing he probably is blind to though, future sales-wise, is how his market is probably 5% of what he thinks it is because of how he and Jpop have burned so many bridges and pissed off so many in the pinball world over these past few years. Sure, he might sell some, as curiosities for the rich folk that love collecting the unicorns, but that's about it.

3 weeks later
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#31251 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

2 months later
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#31944 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Yes, JPOP has just started a new company called DeepScrew. They will be shipping a new and improved RAZA, "soon".
If you send your deposit money now, you'll be added to the "Deeply Screwed" list!

In Australia, that's basically what Deeproot means. There, root is slang for the more vulgar form of screw. It could be surmised that the Deeproot name was, and has always been, a euphemism/loose slang for huge penis. Take from that what you will, but the extrapolation is feasible.

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#31960 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from richierich85:

well kinda, deep is in terms of how far you put it in... ROOT is another word for sex or fuck or bang. So deep sex, deep fuck, deep bang. Not deep dick doesn't really make sense here. lol this thread has come so far... I'll say a verb in terms..

Hmm, well, close enough I guess. I took it to mean that due to watching the train wreck that is the Australian Married at First Sight. Hilarious stuff, but it doesn't surprise me that the girls on it use slang incorrectly. There was a point where one of the girls said that she was "looking for a root, looking for his root", during one of the couple interviews.

2 months later
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#32113 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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If AP has the capital, they should try to buy out that IP if they're considering doing any kind of future work on or with MG. The last thing they need now is to get the credit for doing 12 MG's, then have Turner decide to either sue them or start making the game themselves off the backs of their hard work.

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#32178 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from Inside:

Ask and you shall find out:
It’ll still keep working - screen is “optional” for basic functionality.

I think he said the word "guys" more times than his friend hit the screen. What's really sad is idiots like this are making these obviously fake premised, stupid videos, that they think are comedy in some form, and are making bank off it. This channel has over 7M subscribers.

1 month later
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#32321 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from benheck:

Turner Logic also sets off my BS detector. Paid millions to make a website and code one game... then uses said millions to buy back DR assets pennies on the dollar. HMMMMMMM.............

I've been saying this since day one of all this bankruptcy/liquidation stuff. My previous posts reflect it, too. Something smells with that whole situation.

2 months later
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#32476 1 year ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

Pinside member

11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from sgtski1978:

New York lawyer coming down to Texas to show ol Bobby how law is done.

Worked pretty well in My Cousin Vinny...

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#32493 1 year ago
 
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Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

For the couple people on this thread that might be able to provide suggestions or opinions, I have kind of a similar situation regarding a bankruptcy sale/trustee issue and property that was kept by a former employee that I'd like to ask about what kind of recourse is available to recover said property. We can discuss it in PMs as to not derail this thread.

For clarification; it was not my company nor my employee. I have no vested interest or monetary involvement. It was a friend of mine that this all happened to and I want that former employee to not be able to personally profit of my friend's loss.

3 weeks later
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#32565 1 year ago
 
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Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from mbwalker:

You can spot 3 Raza's in the video. Does that account for the whereabouts of all of them? Or are some still MIA?

I'm curious where he got those other pins, too. Seems odd to have a guy just all of a sudden into pinball with a number of games. I'm guessing these were all bought under the TP company name as a tax write-off as they were most likely purchased for "R&D purposes"....

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#32574 1 year ago
 
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Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

I think the main concern we all share about Turner is the probability that it's a puppet company being secretly directed, run, or funded by RM. Also, it's hard not to think about all the good fortune Turner had in acquiring the massive quantity of goods from the liquidation sale. He was part and parcel to DR's developmental side, along with the software development(which was kept out of the sale), probably getting paid a hefty sum over and above anything we'll ever know, and has now fallen bass-akwards into a pinball production company at a substantial material startup discount.

If/when our concerns are alleviated or proven to not be true somehow, then I'll be happy for him.

7 months later
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#33295 5 months ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from benheck:

"Fat Texas asshole arrested in Africa for soliciting miners"

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#33298 5 months ago
 
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Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

The next filing will be a motion to have a new lead counsel assigned to the defense, watch.

2 weeks later
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#33358 4 months ago
 
MIK

Miguel351

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11y 81,400 4,571 3

Quoted from sgtski1978:

He could not possibly have done enough due diligence to understand that the costs of developing and manufacturing a pinball machine far exceed any hope of profit unless you're doing it at scale. And he didn't have scale. He didn't have a manufacturing base, he didn't have staff, he didn't have a supply chain. I mean, let him get on the stand and talk 'expertly' about pinball. What could possibly go wrong?

I wonder if Turner will be in attendance that day to listen to what his "expertise" is. Whatever level of expertise Turner thinks he has, Mueller had more of it, technically. Let that fact sink in when you think about Ninja Eclipse.

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