Alice in Wonderland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2013
Celts
Haggis, 2021
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Arcade Edition)
Deeproot, 2020
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (Xtra Edition)
Deeproot, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lpeters82.
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Can't wait to see what they have to say. I'm all for giving a new company a chance, but still don't understand why they choose to take on the baggage of JPop. Seems they have started to make good on promises to Apple Juice and Zombie, so that's a start in the right direction. I really just don't want to see anyone else hurt. My biggest fear is that they will become patent trolls, trying to make their money by filing lawsuits against other manufacturers.
Quoted from Makakka:That has the potential to bring down Stern. Stern lost the right to sell the most pins a few years ago but noone was able to take their crown yet. I believe deeproot can!
This doesn't seem like it would be good for pinball. Competition is one thing, but I would hate to see Stern fail.
Quoted from dannylite:I got it! I got it! Quad assembly duh? 4 designers, 4 playfields, 1 cabinet!
That actually makes a lot of sense. I bet the idea is to have multiple game that can be swapped into a single cabinet. That also might explain the hinting at a different type of display. Still doesn't explain how they will be manufactured. They're still going to have to manufacture the playfields plus do all of the coding, graphics, sound, etc.
RM: We won’t have a ‘first’ title in that sense.
Regardless, based on what's been said, I'm still thinking that's their plan. That also could explain the desire to bring in JPop given his work on Star Wars Episode I for Pinball 2000.
Quoted from lpeters82:Regardless, based on what's been said, I'm still thinking that's the plan. That also could explain the desire to bring in JPop given his work on Star Wars Episode I for Pinball 2000.
Quoted from deeproot:Our only response to AP's post is that their statements are not true, they contradict their attorney's private statements, they contradict the contract they voluntarily drafted and entered into with John, and (as to the trademark) appear to contradict federal law. We are proceeding with John's original Houdini design but not the Houdini name; which is consistent with our prior statement.
-dP
Cool?!? I'm dying to see what the target switch on the side of the shooter lane is for.
Quoted from DngrWillRobinson:I've got your magician right here, can't lose with this guy. Hell, he even likes big shiny silver balls.
Reminds me of this:
What happens if someone signs the goodwill terms and they are unhappy with these mystery machines? Say they are like Zizzels or The Pin. Intentional or not, wouldn't they then be S.O.L. Things seem to be vague enough that they could legally be anything. Did I read it correctly that buyers could just take a 50% refund now?
I sincerely hope this works out for everyone. I just don't want to see anyone in worse condition. An example, would be not being made whole and legally losing there ability to sue.
Quoted from Whysnow:so it is all a scam to TRY and get people already duped to give you more deposit money and pot in to another JPOP scam???
WOW!!! WTF!!!!
I don't think they are asking for money until the "delivery day". My only fear at this point is that somehow signing this contract could eliminate any legal leverage current customers might have against John / Zidware. Obviously if deeproot comes through with their promises, games "designed and manufactured similar to the commonly known Williams/Bally/Zidware standards", that will likely not be an issue. Though, I'd question tossing Zidware into the list. I just want to know what happens if they fail to meet that "similar to" standard. Further, I would like to know what happens if deeproot fails, as in, they fail to produce the machines, nor have the capitol to refund deposits. I'm assuming this would make this new contract null and void, but I just don't want to see anyone loose there legal leverage.
Yeah, on it's surface this seems like a promising option, but I have hesitation. Hopefully, that's just being overly cautious, but every option up until this point, has failed. At best. Many have caused more harm. I would hope that deeproot is understanding of this hesitation. By associating with John, they have taken on a lot of baggage. Now they have to deal with that baggage, before they will earn my full support. Still, I hope they do get to that point. I also understand that for others, there is no possibility they could ever support a company associated with John. I totally get that too. I do think the fact that deeproot has settled with Applejuice and Zombie Yeti, is a step in the right direction. Obviously, we're never going to get the full details, but it's safe to assume that all parties thought it was in their best interest to sign the agreement.
Quoted from Slash:I really don't like the swagger and way this guy/business promotes itself.
For people concerned about Zidware buyers signing away their legal rights, if they weren't already part of the Zidware lawsuit then clearly it appears they had very little appetite for legal action anyhow. I guess this offer is at least a carrot for something. Whether it eventuates is a whole other thing, but I can't see much downside for them. They sure as hell weren't getting something from John and had declined to take legal action so it appears they had written their money off. At least now they have a flicker of hope.
That's basically where I'm at. If you had zero interest in suing John / Zidware in past or future, I don't see what you're out by agreeing to these terms. About the only thing I can think of, beyond what's been stated, is that you might be helping John (and others) to profit from the intellectual rights generated while John was paying himself a salary from others money. If this these promises end up being unfulfilled, it's possible you've removed your name from the list that would otherwise stand in the way of using these intellectual rights. I don't understand how American Pinball, and now Deep Root, came to the realization it would be worth the baggage, but whatever. We are, where we are.
Quoted from swillie:For some reason I was thinking one if they plan to remove alot of the physical switches from the playfield and instead use camera/software to 'track' the ball/balls and trigger hits that way.
A bit off topic, but camera facial recognition has gotten crazy good. I was just looking though Google Photo and it was impressive how they were able to produce slideshows of my twins. Even when they were babies they could sort the pictures by either of them correctly. I sometimes had trouble. If this is the public level we're seeing it's almost scary to think what technology the government might have access too.
Anyway, back on topic. Assuming some software could be programmed to track a pinball, that could have the ability to vastly reduce the assembly cost of machines. Targets, switches, etc. no longer would need to be wired. I have no idea what a system like that would cost though. Seems like it would be as much or more then traditional manufacturing.
Reminds me of this:
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:MultiMorphic already tracks the pinball as it rolls over their interactive playfield. One of the modes in Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth you roll over crates to smash them open. Another you fill virtual mugs of delicious beverage, then drink them.
Yeah, think I played it at Expo. Does it use a touch screen to track the ball?
I think most of us want Deep Root to succeed, as in fulfill the promises they have made to Zidware customers. We've just been through it so many times, caution seems warranted.
In terms of P.R., I prefer a more humble; under promise, over deliver approach, but as long as they deliver that isn't really a major issue for me.
Then there is the whole Bible Adventure thing. That seems like a pretty shitty thing to do to a guy like Ben.
At this point they have a lot to prove.
Signing Jpop does nothing for Zidware customers by itself. That's something others have tried and failed. Hopefully this attempt will be different.
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:Can anybody at least acknowledge that deeproot signing John was a good thing for the zidware customers? You all hate deeproot for what JOHN did to zidware customers. But bitch at a company who comes along and tries to fix it
There are many who no longer want John to be associated with pinball, period. In an ideal world, John would refund all Zidware customers and then just disappear from the world of pinball. I get the thought that perhaps signing him is an option for helping Zidware customers, but it's damn near 20 years since the guy has designed a functional machine. Maybe it's time for him to find a different profession and work on paying people back himself. The fact that Ben Heck is leaving pinball before JPop is kind of bumming me out.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I don't know how you pay back a million dollars (and still have some minimal salary to live on) without some high risk high return profession (pinball), or team up with a lawyer who is going to negotiate you out of this mess (Robert), or in this case both. Supposedly John was doing sub-contract work as an independent artist between End of Williams and Zidware (beyond zizzle). As much as these announcements by deeproot sound like a lot of hot air, this is honestly John's best chance of getting out of this giant mess.
I don't totally disagree. Perhaps what should have happened was for deeproot to reach out to zombie and applejuice right away. Negotiate deals with them in secret and then just start working on machines. Hire whoever they want, but don't announce or reply to anything...total radio silence. When machines are ready, make this huge splash by announcing to all Zidware customers that they can come and pick up their machines. The entire pinball world would have had a "WTF" moment. Zero drama, just a standing round of applause.
EDIT: Is pinball a high return profession?
Quoted from toyotaboy:I think that was Robert's original intent, but there are too many pinside slueth's that stumbled on his website.
As a designer, for some. I meant more that the pinballs themselves are low volume, and hence typically high margin. Unlike someone who works at Stern and makes a straight paycheck, it's possible deeproot promised Jpop a percentage of sales.
I hope they are successful and have a positive impact on the overall future of pinball.
Quoted from Roostking:They have taken a beating on Pinside without people seeing games. They need to change that narrative and let pinsiders get to actually know the company, good or bad.
Now they just need to produce. I don't really know what else they could say at this point. If I were advising them, I'd tell them to perhaps release a short update each month, but beyond that just work on the machines.
Based on their current communication, when someone buys a deeproot game they will have to sign a contract to give it a perfect score on the Pinside ranking system. Further you can never make a post indicating there is anything wrong with said game. 
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Amp it up.
I was just thinking about that spoof commercial today. Wasn't expecting it to be posted here.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Copperfield blows compared to Penn and Teller. Copperfield's show in Vegas was lame when i saw it.
I read reviews that for the past few years he's just been going through the motions. Every once in awhile people catch him on a good night, but most of the time the show is lacking any energy. After reading that I choose to see Matt Franco instead. I thought it was okay, but I wish we were closer. I'm not sure any magic show would be in my top five for Vegas. If you're going to see a show now either see Absinthe or Love.
Sorry...back on topic. I don't see the need to redo Houdini at this point. Go with Magic Girl and then give us something different. There are enough themes out there I don't see the need to step on so many toes with Houdini and Bible Adventures.
Quoted from rubberducks:IMO it was foolish. Very expensive custom aspect ratio LCD (it wasn't a larger one running letterboxed). Simulating dots from higher res. content when there were loads of movie assets ....
To me it was the worst part of the presentation, and silly unneeded extra cost. All they need have done was change the backglass / speaker panel ratios and used a vastly cheaper laptop like screen a la Stern / Spooky / Houdini.
I know nothing about the costs, but in terms of looks I prefer that aspect ratio. I also like the pixels.
Damn, I'm already doing a retheme on my Hardbody. Someone needs to turn theirs into a Sweatin' to the Oldies.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Blade Runner is a slow movie with slow music and nearly no action,... not the ideal theme for a fast flowing game of pinball.
I totally agree with that, but someone could probably create something in the "world" of Blade Runner. It was set in 2019, so timing wise, it seems like next year would be appropriate. Not something I'd be too excited about, but it certainly has a following.
Hmm...I don't know. Has anyone found the above artwork anywhere else online? Creating a custom piece of artwork is a lot of trouble to go though for a fake. I'd be more skeptical if it was something like this (see below). I mean, I'm an idiot with Photoshop and I created that in a few minutes, but it would take some effort to try to create what was posted above.
EDIT: Previous artwork has been found elsewhere online. I now believe the original post is a more likely then not a fake.
...and the "fake" artwork has been taken down.
EDIT: Previous artwork has been found elsewhere online. I now believe the original post is a more likely then not a fake.
Quoted from speederice:User 1iblind found the BTTF image here. It's a fanart for a never-going-to-be-released 4th movie: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/10yD2
Okay, thanks much. I retract my previous comments.
Quoted from yancy:...and it's obviously not from there. You think 5th grade skill could cleanly remove that logo from the artwork? Nice try, smart guy.
Only since I feel bad for falling for it, I'll answer honestly...I have below a 5th grade skill and could quite easily remove (,or trim, or replace) that logo from the original artwork.
Given how small the actual image was it wouldn't have been taken all that long, but your way is certainly better. I tried the reverse image search too, but didn't dig too deep into the results to find the clean image.
PS: I finally took down your pop bumper (default champion) on my TNA. I think it might have been the last record to fall.
Quoted from yancy:Nice! Seems like it would be easy with the pop bumper so exposed, but any game where you hit the bumper a lot is usually a short one.
Yeah, I've actually tried for it specifically in the past, but that didn't work out so well.
TWIP: You have said in the past that “Pinball is Easy” – do you still believe that?
RM: I’ve been very clear. Pinball is easy because there are no excuses for failing to deliver value, quality, and quantity. But everything that goes into making pinball is definitely (not for the faint of heart) complex.
Perhaps a more clear way of saying this is to drop the whole, "Pinball is easy" part and just say, "There are no excuses for failing to deliver value, quality, and quantity."
Quoted from benheck:Why doesn't deeproot just save Alien or TBL?
I ask rhetorically, knowing the likely answer is Robert doesn't like those games or find then pretty enough.
But I think owners should set aside what they personally like (cough cough Charlie) and focus on what the market is asking for.
I'd start saving pennies if Spooky ever committed to building The Big Lebowski. With that said, does Spooky have the capacity for a much larger market share, without expanding to a more urban area? They went from what what 150 to 300 to 500 to 500. I certainly could be wrong, but a run of 750 or 1000 seems near capacity in Benton.
Quoted from rubberducks:He's making a critique of the way he considers that Charlie has run Spooky - doing what he likes rather than that which may be good for business. Not suggesting that Spooky should build TBL.
My point is, if they are reaching capacity by doing what they like, are they really leaving any money on the table by not doing what's "good for business"?
Quoted from flynnibus:What does this have to do with the comment? Ben's comment was about the choice in titles and game economics - not about the choice to stay 'right sized' and not grow.
I'm not sure I'm following. If they choose more popular titles, with no capacity to produce more games, what is the economic benefit?
Quoted from Borygard:I definitely get the anger and hate, I personally lost a lot to the whole ordeal.
However, I don't think JPop should continue to be chastised so much. He definitely screwed up, and obviously has issues, but he's never thrown his hands up and said fuck it. He's continued to look for some kind of solution to get what he's promised done. He could have very easily just done what SkitB, Heighway, VonnieD, and Dutch have done and just walked away. He continued to try to get the games built though, to the point of getting two different, new pinball manufacturers involved.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
I totally get that, but with John it seemed like each new attempt to make things right hurt more people. It was essentially a giant pyramid scheme. Is Deeproot going to be the foundation of that pyramid, or are they just going to be another layer of disappointment? Only time will tell. I'm not rooting against Deeproot (ha, ha...rooting). I do however worry that their version of success might be hurtful to other manufacturers. I hope we are not entering into an era of crazy pinball patents and lawsuits.
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:Yesterday Kaneda talked a little bit about deeproot. He said a buddy of his has seen what's going on at deeproot and when they launch it's gonna blow everything out of the park.
Until they have something to show, Deeproot is doing exactly what they should be doing, staying quiet.
Quoted from Bublehead:Unless you have endless cash...
My favorite pinball daydream has always been some well connected money man with deep pockets gets hooked on pinball, and the only way to satisfy his ravenous pinball appetite is to buy Stern, or JJP, or CGC and dump obscene ammounts of money into them and start pumping out titles and machines like back to back.
Well, right now, DR is the closest thing going to that pipe dream. I am wondering, though, does DR’s story end in success, failure, or with people behind bars?
That's great for the short term, but could also be the end for competition. I'll take slow and steady with a healthy business model versus a flash in the pan.
Quoted from Rondogg:Silence does them no good.
I totally disagree. I feel like their second mistake, after hiring JPop, was talking too much, too early. Until they are ready to show something, I applaud them for trying to stay as quiet as possible. I don't think any amount of talking is going to convince people to all of a sudden start trusting a company who's first hire was JPop. With that said, I'm ready to be "wowed" by results.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:People love his games, that's why they all fell for him... again, and again and again...
Yet, he hasn't produced a functional game in the last 20 years. Again, I want them to succeed AND for their success to be an overall positive for pinball.
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:How is this thread 56 pages without any real info on the machines yet.
Step 1, hire JPop
Step 2, ?
Step 3, Profit
Quoted from benheck:"Modern" pinball machines are laughably primitive compared to most other things.
If a large tech driven company bothered to do anything in the realm of Pinball they would squash every company like an elephant on an ant.
If it were modernized they might attract a new audience, but do you think the current audience would follow?
Here is a quick video of John Papadiuk talking about Retro Atomic Zombieland on the Ben Heck Show back in 2011. Pretty crazy how he was able to rationalize the problems with finishing machines back then, yet still started multiple machines, without the ability to actually finish a single one of them. Hopefully, with enough cash and talent around him we actually see some finished machines.
Quoted from toyotaboy:lots of people design a pinball for a decade..
yea, they're called jpop
#davidspade #tommyboy
I thought it might be interesting to try to date just how long it's been since JPop designed a full-size functional pinball machine.
* Gas costs were on average $1.25 per gallon
* Barry Sanders was still in the NFL
* Vince Carter was a rookie in the NBA
* Pre-Y2K
* Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen were in elementary school
* Spice Girls were on tour
* We were still two years away from the first Harry Potter movie
* There was no Xbox
* Williams was still producing pinball machines
Again, I want there to be a redemption, but it's a little unbelievable that anyone is still willing to invest so much into him after this many years.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Or 2007, 2008. License was aquired in 2006.
[quoted image]
And no, I shit you not.
Fair enough, I edited my post to include "full-size".
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Jpop gets so much hatred. Not cool he tried so hard. He’s also a good faithful family man.
Zero hatred from me, but I also am not out any money. I want him to pay back his many debts and don't understand why a company would knowingly take on that baggage on a designer who hasn't produced a full-size functional pinball machine in the past 20 years. However, I don't need to understand. If DeepRoot can assist those who lost money, that's a positive for our hobby.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:And his games are still better than any pins released in the last 20 years.
It’s going to be difficult for him to Top already what’s in the top 20, but hopefully he pulls it off
I liked his pinball machines too.
Quoted from RobT:Even if that's true, that does not explain what the consideration given by Zidware buyers to Deeproot is.
Pinball is a relatively small-niche hobby. I wouldn't even consider a new JPop game from Deeproot unless they made things right with his past customers. I assume there must be others who feel the same. While there likely is little legal repercussions, I assume the negative PR must outweigh the cost of fulfilling those debts. I don't feel JPop is worth that, at this point, but obviously Deeproot disagrees. Either way, I applaud Deeproot for taking on those debts and settling with Applejuice and others.
Quoted from RobT:So it all comes down to goodwill. And that's great, but man, it sure seems like they are paying an awful lot for that goodwill.
I don't disagree, but look what happened with American Pinball. They started out with JPop and, following a wave of criticism, decided he wasn't worth the baggage. Deeproot seems to feel differently. Perhaps if they can surround him with enough talent it will work out.
To be fair, wasn't everything crashing around that time? I've had vendors tell stories of regrets for selling off during that period.
Quoted from stevevt:I want to root for you, but you are making it difficult.
No kidding. Pinball is such a niche hobby, I'm sure many Deeproot employees have friends at the companies there CEO, Robert, is openly trashing. The same thing has occasionally happened with Stern. 99% of the people at Stern are awesome, but there are a few total asshats, who seem to thrive on mean spirited drama. I'm sure the same is true at the other companies. Robert, please don't be a part of that 1%.
I think it looks good. More interested to see how they will manufacture games, but they have some good artists on staff...cool.
Quoted from tbutler6:Will be interesting to see how the market changes when deep root brings it. Lots of people already unloading games cheap for Stern Jurassic Park...
Yep, the best time to buy used is when the next hot new toy is released.
Quoted from CLEllison:Another day of no updates from deeproot. Their silence is NOT doing them ANY favors.
Quoted from lpeters82:I don't totally disagree. Perhaps what should have happened was for deeproot to reach out to zombie and applejuice right away. Negotiate deals with them in secret and then just start working on machines. Hire whoever they want, but don't announce or reply to anything...total radio silence. When machines are ready, make this huge splash by announcing to all Zidware customers that they can come and pick up their machines. The entire pinball world would have had a "WTF" moment. Zero drama, just a standing round of applause.
I stand by my statement from last year, the best thing they can do is to stay quiet until they have something real to show.
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:It’s fun watching all the haters squirm trying to get in front of the steam roller that is about to be Deep Root Pinball.
The pinball community seems to be one of the most polarized. Everything has to either be the "best ever" or "worst ever". Both sides are equally annoying.
EDIT: That's not quite true. As I think about it, I am slightly more annoyed by the "worst ever" group.
Yeah, I get that. I wasn't a huge fan of how Robert came in with the whole "pinball is easy" talk. However, I look at this machine and see a lot to like, especially from a first time manufacturer.
Quoted from cjchand:Am I mis-remembering the "Ferrari for a Kia's price" line of talk from Robert?
I believe this is simply a case of reality sinking in. Robert came to Pinside with as a hypeman. It might be best to just own up to taking things to far with a statement about simply wanting to drive excitement about his new company and echoing that the mistakes he was seeing in the current manufacturing processes were not going to be acceptable at Deeproot. Admit that he took things a little too far, ask for forgiveness, and move forward with a vague promise of exciting things to come.
Quoted from kdecgp:How about they sell a kit version for enthusiasts? That and direct sales could lower consumer cost.
I can't even fathom how many emails they would get each day with questions or complaints that something isn't working.
Quoted from wrb1977:Amazing...first people complained deeproot talked too much. The sentiment was shut up until you have a proper reveal and have a final product to show.
Quoted from Brijam:Nice spin. People complained because they trash talked the competition and made astonishing bold claims without showing anything. The sentiment was, “it would have been better to remain in stealth mode and wow us when you have something to show.”
Yeah, they really put themselves in a tough spot. That said, I much prefer the "radio silence" approach versus continuing on with their initial method of communication. I won't be at Texas, but I'm excited to see what they come up with.
I assume those in attendance had to sign some non-disclosure agreement. We'll likely never know what actually happened at the media event.
Quoted from Daditude:Goonies is already an "insta-buy, " but what about the combative racing license? If it is Mario Kart, then I am in trouble because I will have to come up with the funds![quoted image]
Was this actually posted somewhere? There is not a single theme that would make me "insta-buy" any game. The design team gets me more excited then the theme, but even then I'm still going to need some time on the game before putting down money. That said, let's have some fun. Alice is a cool them. I like darker takes on fairytales. Combat Racing could be cool. I certainly enjoy Mario Kart, but could also see how an unlicensed take on Twisted Metal or Carmageddon could be fun. Multiplex is a bit to vague for me to even guess. I'd love to see more games based on board games. I'm currently in the process of doing a Pandemic retheme, which I think could work well. King of Tokyo is not my favorite game, but I think it is the game that would make the best pinball machine. It's a kaiju battle royal. If the 80s theme were Goonies, I'm not sure I'd be overly excited. It's a fun movie, but I'm not sure where I'd take the rules in terms of pinball. Are you collecting treasure to save your homes? Avoiding the Fratellis? Feeding candy bar to Sloth? Truffle Shuffle Multiball? I like the movie, but it feels like it would need to be a collect characters type game. Anyway, probably replying to something fake, but whatever.
As long as Deeproot is in communication with those that preordered RAZA I really don't have a huge issue with them staying quiet. There was way too much talk early, so unless they have games ready to ship there really isn't anything they could say that's going to sway opinions. It's time for them to back up their early talk with some actual production.
Quoted from Bublehead:...if you were a pinball designer working with DR, get to a point that you either throw up your hands, throw in the towel, or simply throw down a design and say "We build this or I walk", because isn't that what designers really do? They put their blood and sweat into their baby and by hook or by crook they get someone to build it?.
Are the paychecks still coming in the mail?
Quoted from Scandell:Just caught up on 360 posts of absolutely nothing. I’ll add some actual meat. Robert has zero understanding, respect or reverence for manufacturing and production of any kind. To say he bit off more than he could chew here in Utah is an understatement.
Yikes. This really helps drive home that Spooky pinball is doing things 100% correctly with slow and steady growth.
Quoted from Inside:It looks like various Robert Muellers of San Antonio have been recently parties to multiple civil suits.
You can view the records through the Bexar County Civil Smart Search (https://portal-txbexar.tylertech.cloud/Portal/).
The suits are:
2020CI20793 - HOLTS MECHANICAL LTD VS ROBERT J MUELLER ET AL [Deeproot, Deeproot Tech]. Served at Deeproot. Settled 3/29/21.
2020CV04262 - FIRST NATIONAL BANK OF OMAHA VS ROBERT J MUELLER (Debt/Contract) - Pending.
2021CI00320 - SOFI LENDING CORP VS ROBERT MUELLER (Debt/Contract), still unserved.
Yikes. This seems like it could be a huge issue.
I'm sure many have said it already, but pinball is a manufacturing business first and foremost. It might not be the most glamorous aspect, but if you don't have the manufacturing, you don't have a pinball company.
Very strange...basically, "Our updates will never do enough to express how much progress we're making, therefore we're going to start doing fewer updates." I also don't really understand the need for the "first-come, first-serve" refunds. If there is a huge waiting list there should be no need to put limitations on refunds. That wording would make be worried if I were a customer. It seems as though the seemingly bottomless cash flow may be drying up.
Quoted from benheck:I want deeproot to fail. We don't need patent trolls in this hobby.
I don't want them to fail, but excessive legal pursuits has been a major concern with deeproot. I was worried that was a major part of their funding plans, but if they can't produce a machine it's probably difficult to claim those intellectual rights.
So we that basically tells us that at least one of the following is happening...
Employees are NOT being paid
Credit or debit cards are NOT being used
Supplies are NOT being purchased
Expenses are being NOT paid
...not good.
Quoted from frolic:I wonder if most of this thread wouldn't exist had Robert not declared "pinball is easy". The moment he said it it was on him to prove it. Of course this is the result.
It was the overall attitude behind the quote, combined with the complete inability to back it up.
MealyPiercingEgret-size_restricted.gif
Quoted from TreyBo69:What's so hard to follow about a bustling amusement park at an old nuclear reactor site that was built on ancient Native American burial grounds being the crash site of alien invaders who use xenon gas to raise an army of the dead while a different alien warrior princess and an alien human cyborg team up with the player to help save the earth? Also Dracula
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't hate the theme. I think it's campy and fun. There were many-many other reasons I didn't order. Theme just wasn't one of those.
Quoted from DennisNordman:Ben, you don't always know everything. It could be that I was at deeproot because I have a passion for designing pinball games. Blinded by the opportunity to put anything I wanted into a game, I realized after a year and a half that it wasn't going to happen. I designed three games while I was there and they will probably never be seen. What a waste of almost two years. While you are free to post your opinions here, I can think of another place where you can put them.
DennisNordman Is there anything that could be done that might prevent your efforts from being completely wasted? In theory could individuals or another company purchase your designs? Perhaps it's best to just let everything associated with deeproot go down with the ship, but it just sucks how much Robert and JPop are dragging down with them. I'd much rather see your designs get a second chance versus the continual efforts that have been wasted on JPop.
I just love it that the shot lines were drawn on first and the artwork was incorporated into the designed.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:Perhaps to pay tribute to a major creditor and Robert's business ethics it was a cointaker?
Quoted from greatwichjohn:I get it that it WAS A SCAM! All I am saying is many things could of been different with the right people. Not Robert being a dictator & a criminal. Like I have said no production was done. If JPOP & his games were finished & produced way back at the start. Maybe Deeproot Pinball would have survived, but not with all the bullshit lies Robert said & did over the years. The stupid Video division was the big money drain with all the employees. Big offices were another big drain, & add on the pinball staff who you need for a pinball company.
Do you just need someone to agree? If so, you are right! If this wasn't a scam, things might have turned out differently. That said it's like calling out the public relations person for White Star Lines. That wasn't the problem.
It's too bad our talking negatively about deeproot has caused so much trouble for this otherwise successful business. 
Quoted from benheck:We should weld up a Thunderdome and make the sycophants battle it out for the 2 prototypes.
WHO RUN BARTER-TOWN?
Maybe Spooky should make Robert the same offer he made them. Then we can haul all the assets and have a huge bonfire in Benton. Well maybe just a small bonfire.
Quoted from benheck:I recall when talking to Robert at TPF 2015 (when he stole my idea for Bible Adventures)
Ben Heck game #2 confirmed, Bible Adventures.
Quoted from benheck:Rumor has it Food Truck was completed...
Somebody has to make a Fyre Fest-like doco of this...
What would be a decent retheme?
I love White Water. I still think it's my favorite upper playfield of all time. The only thing I'd like to see on this whitewood would be adding another shot for the third flipper on the main playfield. I also can't tell where that inner shot on the upper playfield goes, but I'm hoping there is a diverter, so it can either be looped or enter the ramp back to the inlane.
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Midlothian, TX