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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

3 years ago

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  • 13,847 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by benheck
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Topic index (key posts)

17 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (1 year ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (1 year ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (1 year ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (1 year ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#5606 1 year ago

Thinking this is a nice effort pinball machine, but non licensed theme is not going to cut it or hold value, like traditional licensed machines do. Zombies are so passé now. Like the effort to reduce crazy pricing in pinball, but until licensed games are released, they’re no threat to Stern. Who wouldn’t rather have a licensed popular theme that already has a huge following like JP, over RAZA for similar money? Could be good if it is selling way below a Stern Pro and then not being worried about resale value, because most can afford to just keep it.

Also, who wouldn’t be willing to pay $5500 for JP theme over RAZA (unknown theme) if sold even as low as $5000? Haven’t we learned that unlicensed themes don’t sell well to 2nd hand market? Octoberfest? Houdini? Cosmic Carnival? America’s Most Haunted? Whoa Nellie?

But do hope this all goes well, because we need the pricing competition so badly. Stern pricing has to stabilize and even come down. JJP is way out of whack pricing wise.

#5613 1 year ago

To “humble the competition” and not worry about it being a non licensed theme, think it needs to sell around the $3k to $3500 mark. That would have the power to change the crazy inflated high pricing in pinball. Many people would then become interested in pinball, instead think we are crazy paying such ridiculous current high prices.

#5618 1 year ago
Quoted from Coz:

Medieval madness, AFM, CV, Theater of Magic, cactus canyon, etc are all unlicensed themes that not only held their value but are now worth 2-4 times their original price. I’m curious to see how these new Deeproot games are priced. If they are less than a stern pro, then it will be very interesting

Agree with your examples, but that was a very different market 25 years ago. None of those machines were meant for the home and sold for far less than today’s in home machines. They command prices because of nostalgia, from so many playing years ago in an arcade.

#5628 1 year ago

Issue with this prototype is, what on it is actually real and not just a placeholder???

A. PF is not actual DR PF.
B. All artwork is place holder, not real.
C. Even innovative mechs not present.

How may we judge anything, when nothing is the actual finished product?

However, if this drives down pricing and creates better competition, seeing something is better than nothing. Hoping this all works out. If it does, it can only be good for us.

#5658 1 year ago

This is hilarious: a new Trojan horse rolls into town with some on lookers fawning all over it. Something smells, as DR investors might be being scammed (For example: DR built an unneeded auditorium, instead of building and selling even their first machine - do like everyone else does and show at a convention and save investor money for building up inventories of something that actually brings in revenue - pinball machines). Some people are giving DR kudos for JPop work done years ago when he had Zidware.

Sure they haven’t taken pinball money yet, so some are giving DR a pass, but what about the poor DR investors??? Their money is being spent like no tomorrow $750,000.00 (DR claimed expenditure figures, not mine) a month and this is all they have to show for years of work??? A machine that DR claims is not the finished version and almost everything on the machine is going to change? Wow, are we expected to believe the Trojan horse is a great gift? Looking at this, causes great concerns. Hope the investors don’t lose out on their hard earned investment monies, because if this is all they have at this point in the business cycle that began 2016/17 and I we’re an investor, I’d be worried big time. Hope what appears to be possible isn’t. Just my opinion from looking at it closer.

DR confirmed game list is JPop titles he began years ago.

(Unless observations are nothing but positive...downvotes)

#5663 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I am as big of a DR skeptic as anyone, but for the love of least get your facts straight. Its 750k a month, not 7.5 million.

Thanks, corrected it. Still a very high figure for what has been shown to date.

#5831 1 year ago

After watching that video, Stern, JJP, CGC and Spooky have nothing to fear, unless it is priced really well.

#5998 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I spent most of my time at the show playing RAZA. I really like it and I’m excited about it.
I’ll go into more detail later, but here’s the best quality video I was able to get. It was right when the show opened, so it wasn’t very loud yet. You can hear the game sounds.

Don’t beat up on anyone’s videos. One machine was under a super bright light, the other was super dark. Neither was easy to shoot, especially if the person playing was not someone you know. You wanted to give them space.
I do wish I’d had my streaming rig for this.

Thanks for sharing this video. Gives a better feel for RAZA imo. It does look fun to shoot. Were you able to get a ball in the Ferris wheel? Haven’t seen anyone do that yet?

#6002 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yes I did! I think one of the two videos shows a ball cycling through the wheel.

Have only seen the one video you took. Is there another one?

#6003 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

It is hard to notice but the ferris wheel operation is seen in some video linked in here. Watching again you see things happening that you didn't see, or happened too fast, the first viewing. The video quality does make it a challenge of course, but it is good to have something rather than nothing.
Thankyou to everyone putting up videos for us! ... please don't stop, most of us appreciate it and take it for what it is.
The first video provided by Zach may have missed the ball actually going around the right ramp.... but it does show that the ball makes it all the way, easily, and the rection of the player making the shot... which sounded to me like it was a very Positive reaction. So thanks Zach, the video you sourced is as good as any of the other videos put up here so far. Cheers!

Zach’s video is appreciated. I wonder if rather than trying to scour this thread for these videos, if the videos mentioned showing the main mechs working could be posted in one post?

3 weeks later
#6909 11 months ago
Quoted from doghouse:

Yeah, it doesn't feel like free unless you kissed the money goodbye years and years ago like I did. Then it kinda feels "free".

Absolutely. If they don't succeed it'll just be plain depressing. All that wasted talent, time and resources.... And there are dozens of factors that could cause Deeproot not to succeed as a company. The top three in my opinion: 1. The initial games are full of lots of Jpop-inspired "stuff," but just aren't any fun to play. The videos I've seen on-line of the RAZA prototypes worried me a little. Until we see/play the finished games the jury is still out. 2. The company has spent too much on start-up and can't sell enough games to recoup before they just run out of money. 3. They just can't get the hardest part right-- i.e. manufacturing the actual games.

Yeah, Jpop really does seem like a fraud. In my worldview he would now have a much different reputation if he had just admitted in public that he screwed up and didn't have any business running a company. And if he had ever apologized to ANYONE. Which to the best of my knowledge, he never has. We as human beings tend to be VERY forgiving of those that sincerely admit they screwed-up. And because Jpop never did this he will always seem to people like us, who he screwed, a true asshole and fraud.

If DP doesn’t have all the markings of a Ponzi scheme, I don’t know what does.

1. Instead of Jpop messing with early adopters money: DP instead is messing with investors money. To date not Manufactering a thing, except showing an old prototype that was probably mostly done when JPop began working on RAZA 8 years ago. Can’t believe that is all they have to show for DPs 5 years of effort.

2. Working on a dozen prototypes, instead of trying to get game one done and out the door is very fishy. How can any company survive, pay all those people and building/buisness overhead and keep their head above water??? It makes zero sense in the world of business, unless investor money is just being burned through: which appears to be almost reckless abandon.

3. They had to show something to satisfy investors, so they showed a prototype game and pushed launch date back again. To date, there has only been Robert shooting his mouth off about how DP will change the industry. And now, saying he is losing interest in pinball, which smacks of a Ponzi scheme running out of things to tell people. All the while, putting their money into the hype train chain letter.

We in the pinball world are willing to believe DP is going to change pinball for the better, because DP promises more pinball, quality, etc.; all for less money. Seems to good to be true. We will find out next year, end of March, unless they move the date again.

1 week later
#6944 11 months ago

R&M announced....Stranger Things announced....


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#6965 11 months ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

I don’t care if DR is likable
I don’t care if DR bragged
I don’t care that DR is behind where they thought they would be
I only care that there is a new pin company that could possibly make quality machines with features and mechs like the 90s B/W. I am still excited with what DR could possibly do. I mean do we ever think a company like Stern is going to make machines like the 90s B/W? Maybe companies like Spooky or CGC will keep making better and better quality pins. Imagine a pin company starts making pins and people start comparing these new games with the greats of old. That company would just take off in the pin world. The appetite is certainly there for pins with the 90s features and quality. Question is will any company figure this out and actually pull it off. I for one hope so..........good luck Deeproot!

We all want to see prices come down and better quality for those very high prices, but come on, 90s B/W quality is a huge fallacy and not really true. I was just speaking with a guy that has been an operator for over 45 years in the pinball business. He refurbs pinball machines as well.

He states that there never was any high quality coming from 90s B/W and those machines broke down all the time. Had so many issues, but because there wasn’t any internet or home owners, just locations running them, issues were fixed on location without any fanfare, unlike today.

He pointed to his locations huge selection of 90s B/W machines and told me of all the many issues each one had (I was intrigued, because of always hearing what quality came from 90s B/W). (Cover your eyes Stern haters, cause your not going to like what he said next). He said pointing to all his Stern machines, they just work and he hardly has to touch them, other than routine maintenance, that every pinball machine needs from time to time.

That said, Stern needs to continue to be vigilant on better Playfield quality and bring prices down. Sad day: Stern releases Stranger Things and ups prices again. When Stern are you going to stop this price raising madness? Hopefully DR can give some kind of competition with lower pricing and even higher quality. Just wonder if DR will eventually file for chapter 7 as well? The way they are spending money, with no real product ever being sold and delivered. Kind of sounds like Zidware 2.0, doesn’t it???

1 month later
#7598 9 months ago
Quoted from Frax:

Maybe if you folks would learn to actually debate something without making it personal all the time, you'd figure out why this keeps happening. If you don't like me, put me on ignore, because I really don't give a damn. You're allowed to have your opinions to fawn all over a company that's not proven, and I'm allowed to have an opinion that until they ship product and keep the doors open, then they're suspect. Doesn't mean we have to agree, but you saying that someone is shitting on a thread just because their opinion isn't aligned with the majority opinion (WHICH BY THE WAY...I was the minority opinion on Predator, Zidware, AND Heighway...and I was right in the end....might not be here, we'll see!) is just you trying to stomp on people you don't agree with.

There are people hoping DR will be competition for Stern, so pricing will stabilize or PF’s will be better populated as a result of DR coming into the market. Somewhat agree with your assessment, DR doesn’t appear to be doing things a successful challenger should be doing. Your point about them being Zidware 2.0 might have some truth to it. You’re 3 for 3 right now and you might be 4 for 4 in the end.

Agree, that we should all be adult and discuss without getting personal.

#7636 9 months ago
Quoted from ufotofu:

Some people think that, yes. If the launch even happens, I'm inclined to believe that Deeproot will pull together a whiz-bang launch presentation with tons of fun art and animations. They'll show off gameplay video from RAZA and (possibly) one of JPOP's Magic Girl prototypes, but the livestream will have major technical issues (Deeproot will attribute this to "unprecedented public interest"). Robert Mueller will lead a tour through the building, giving an enthusiastic non-answer about why the manufacturing wing is empty except for some rented laser lights. Bowden will spend 10 minutes making RAZA look easy, because he's Bowden. Their panelists will give extremely guarded answers about the "hundreds" of Deeproot innovations in manufacturing and design. Finally, they'll announce that they're taking preorders for games that will be manufactured "soon".
Then, in 2021, the lawsuits will start.

Quite an insightful post and may not be too far from the truth. Lol This scenario is quite believable given JPop past history and Robert’s tendency to run away with his mouth. Remember, this is the same JPop that stiffed Zidware customers.

Raza, if improved from the almost useable prototype shown at Houston expo, still is not going to excite new customers at a price of $8k. Who will actually spend this much money on an unlicensed theme? Haven’t we learned from APs non licensed theme’s dismal sales? Raza will be no different, nor any of DR’s other announced titles, except possibly, Alice in Wonderland. And surely they are not going to license the Disney version of that title. Licensed themes are the only ones that sell these days. Without a top tier license, toys priced at near $10k don’t sell.

DR’s so called launch is going to be interesting to say the least, to see how much they have actually done in the past numerous years of existence.

#7669 9 months ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Distributors to arcade operators will be the key to DR success. Licenses are indeed king. Spooky had/has a following with home use customers such that 100's of units sell in hours or days - spooky doesn't need many distributors or marketing, or attend many shows to sell their wares. Charlie makes what themes he likes and they sell well. There is a rare, and well deserved, non-license success at Spooky. AMH and Total Nuclear Annihilation offer proof that a good game design and software plus audio, even with old DMD use or old school score displays have sold well and TNA won best game at Midwest gaming classic no less. Stern has distributors an established operator customers both foreign and domestic.
My big question is how DR plans on breaking in to the existing distributors and how their new distributions channels will look.

Do you think going to an online distribution operation works for pinball? It certainly would allow for lots lower pricing. In essence, Spooky has that system working now to some degree.

If DR could do a simple drop ship from the factory to home would save large sums of money and should translate to much lower pricing for us the consumer. The success of Amazon is built on this premise. Cutting out all the middle men might do well in the digital age. Not that distributors don’t offer a service as well, but with the way it is now, might be the answer to lower pricing. Pinball is beginning to price itself out of the market place.

If DR were to keep with the philosophy of a “pinball in every home”, they need to keep pricing much lower than it currently is at. Doing a direct distribution model would help facilitate that goal.

Certainly the video game market is going this direction.

1 week later
#7830 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Meh... he's getting to the point where he can't just keep saying it, he has to prove it. And he's softening up because the deadline calls him to the mat.
But you can tell the core traits are still there.
Don't fret about the Launch... this is just the start! This is only a taste of what we are doing, there is plenty more to come (again.. more promises instead of more deliverables)
"We will be excited to show a portion of what we’ve been working on, on launch day"
"So even though we are only showing a portion..."
He's just trying to set the table so he can keep promising MORE futures and try to steer the conversation away from what was expected now.
And then what is all the garbage about 'pinball for the next century'?
This is a company that is years late, clearly is struggling with knowing what to do vs not do... and we get fed lines like "We never wanted to redefine pinball itself. Just redefine the expectations from pinball for the next century"
I mean... we're talking about an industry that is not even a century old itself (I'm not talking pre-war pin bagetelle stuff... EM and onward) and a company that can't get its first product out the door is talking about redefining the game for the next CENTURY.
That's the kind of engrained bullshit pumping spiel that has defined RM in this hobby to date.. and clearly hasn't learned his lesson or finished his humble pie.

Agreed and it will be interesting to finally see what they are going to reveal, but his so called quelled hubris, is not quite there 100 years, lol.

2 weeks later
#8069 8 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

No, they won't say that. It will be something like...
"In light of recent events, the Deeproot team has been forced to delay our many amazing product releases indefinitely."
They will then quietly lay everyone off, and we will never hear about them again (except for mentions in various court proceedings).
I hope that I am wrong, however.

This is the perfect Storm and out DP had been waiting for to explain to the investors why it didn’t work. That word: “indefinitely” is pretty strong.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

No, they won't say that. It will be something like...
"In light of recent events, the Deeproot team has been forced to delay our many amazing product releases indefinitely."
They will then quietly lay everyone off, and we will never hear about them again (except for mentions in various court proceedings).
I hope that I am wrong, however.

Lay-off has already begun with Dennis...

#8092 8 months ago

The virus hides a multitude of nefarious DR ponzi activity...been pretty obvious with no real product release, after years of questionable activity. Some big names have already moved on...DR closing its doors is a real possibility now. DR has the perfect out and is relieved they didn’t have to do their launch, which by their published agenda, wasn’t going to reveal much anyway. Feel for the investors on this one, as it appears they got “milked” big time.

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