(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33,444 posts
  • 1,148 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by blueberryjohnson
  • Topic is favorited by 308 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

deeprootcapital-321-2024.02.27.pdf (PDF preview)
Screenshot 2024-02-05 at 7.56.45?PM (resized).png
SEC-140-2024.02.05.pdf (PDF preview)
SEC-139-2024.01.25.pdf (PDF preview)
pasted_image (resized).png
Screenshot_20240112_175938_Chrome (resized).jpg
403765574_876339380515815_4670370081257223759_n (resized).jpg
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.41.36?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.29.19?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.27.08?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.26.42?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.26.05?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.25.18?PM (resized).png
Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 10.24.27?PM (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png

Topic index (key posts)

357 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (6 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by PinMonk (4 years ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (4 years ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (4 years ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (4 years ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (4 years ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (4 years ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (4 years ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (4 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jeffspinballpalace.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

276 posts in this topic match your search for posts by jeffspinballpalace. You are on page 1 of 2.
#35 6 years ago

October 21st, 2017... Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time....

Curious if their first words were JPOOP and Bad. Looking forward to your interview.

Questions for deeproot: A complaint of RAZA was that it appeared to borrow elements that were not in public domain, are there any licensing or copyright issues for these game?

Also, What makes them think they will be successful where many others have failed?

Finally, what is their approach to implementing graphics for the LCD screen(s)?

#38 6 years ago

Can they build me a Tesla for the price of a Hyundai?

#130 6 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Hello,
I have only just seen this on the TWIP site (yes i find out this type of thing second hand it seems on a public website....) , and to say the very least am quite shocked to be honest. I have no idea where they've got the 100k figure from, or why the tone is so aggressive???
I was contracted for over 2 years from August 2012 to August 2014 (if memory serves) but i started in June 2012 and i pulled the plug in May 2014 after being 3 months behind on invoice payments. I had 4 visits to Chicago during that time. My contract had a 2 year gag clause in it which i upheld and I even returned all my prototype assets in return for John paying up on the 3 months left which he never did of course.
This type of blatant lie and random statements is just really bizarre. All i've ever wanted was to be paid up in full for what i did and receive a game. That's it nothing more. I even created the magicgirlcode.org site and helped out owners on my own time with issues as i want this game to be a good one. Feel like i've being kicked in the nackers again.... !!
If it comes to it, then i'll just publish all my invoices with the dates and amounts, as i still have all my audited records!

applejuice Deeproot never bothered to contact you to settle unpaid bills or to hire you for future improvements, and then goes on to spew that shit? What a bunch of Dishonest Losers.

Found a copy of Deeproot's Gameplay Book for Success in Business:

Setup company and name it after what you wanna do to your customers, but knowing that would never fly, decide to translate it into Dutch words - Deeproot. Nobody will figure that one out.

Hire Mega Business Destroyer - JPOP - a man proven to be toxic to anything he touches and put him in charge of designing your first four games.

Bring in staff with no pinball design or relavent manufacturing experience.

Don't pay vendors and suppliers.

Settle matters with art designer. We'll need that when we build our games.

Alienate software designer so that you will now have to find another to update code.

(Maybe illegally?) selling future MG game with software that was never paid for.

Develop plan to help make previous buyers whole, but exclude the most loyal achievers. Ones that got so fed up with John's lies and misdirection and getting a constant runaround, that they organized and sued JPOP's ass. But it is better to bury your head in the sand and wake up in the morning, than to lift your head up now and risk getting it chopped off.

Give public interview to pinball community and potential buyers where you demonstrate your own lack of knowledge and experience making pinballs, which everyone knows is hard!

Wish I was making this stuff up, but unfortunately is reality live.

#135 6 years ago

Cool TWIPY ratings. Can you add weekly results to your TWIP newsletter? I don't think anyone else can see them, so this would be a good way to show a running tally that changes as long as the votes come in. With Survey Monkey, survey could probably stay open through next year. I am already curious to see who's leading each category.

Would love another category added for - most incomplete software.

#149 6 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Please see the updated webpage from deeproot Tech. (Scroll to bottom of page). In summary, i would like to share the following statement :
----------------
Jim Askey (aka Applejuice or myPinballs) and deeproot Tech have reached an agreement transferring IP rights in and to Software for Zidware games to deeproot Tech for undisclosed consideration. Mr. Askey agrees to refrain from possessing, or performing any further work on, the Zidware software or related IP and shall promptly remove any online content regarding the same. Neither deeproot Tech nor Mr. Askey will be making any further comments about the agreement or any corresponding particulars.
----------------
Thank you all

Congrats applejuice glad you were able to resolve your differences. It didn't make practical or legal sense for Deeproot to continue designing MG, without having the basic software paid up. They'd be better off using your talents for future upgrades too, but at least today, one more supplier has been compensated and a major hurdle vanquished.

1 month later
#177 6 years ago

Fantastic coverage by TWIP. The interview and pics offer a rare peek inside deeproot's mindset and their war room. Hope they can pull this off, but the steps taken so far are counter intuitive.

Starting from a point of having never manufactured/sold a single pinball machine - hire toxic JPOP and build a pinball company based on all of his failed themes, hire enough staff to produce 4 or 5 pinball machines, lease a facility capable of producing 100 games a week (my guess), design manufacturing and accounting systems to run a pinball company in a new manner without real world testing, introduce a new type of system for programming rules and a/v and declare yourself the industry winner before completing the first design.

The favorable qualities that DR has going for it 1) it is well funded 2) they are demonstrating a focused vision of where they want to go and 3) they are moving at a quick pace. Managing of details, politics and luck all have a hand in deeproot's success. However they can only expect to have influence over one of those factors. It is execution, more so in pinball than many industries, that will determine their fate. There is a lot of work to be done!

#330 6 years ago

So we have these past and future JPOP titles planned to be deeprooted: Magic Girl (MG), Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland (RAZA), Alice in Wonderland (AIW), Fire and Brimstone (Bible Adventures) and Houdini. There is another one of his I'd actually like to see made. Can you guess which one is missing? Hint - it is not one of those mentioned.

#332 6 years ago

Yes that's it - KISS! Artwork was black ink on white background. Foamcore was complete and game was ready to be made into a whitewood.

#334 6 years ago

Anybody have the link to JPOP's seminar where he stands in front of a slide projected on wall listing games not made by JPOP? That one was a classic and I could use a good chuckle.

#339 6 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Could add Houdini to that list as well. Even though deeproot claims they will be making it, Jpop's houdini has yet to be produced.

and ... Fire and Brimstone ... KISS .....

2 weeks later
#484 6 years ago
Quoted from DennisK:

Alright, the podcast episode just released, here is a link:
https://soundcloud.com/user-465086826/episode-55
The interview is just after the introduction segment (jump ahead to 4:30 to get just before it starts), and runs a little over 50 minutes.

Listening now and you had me when you announced your broadcast is the only explicit one. Well that and after learning Dennis has a buttery smooth voice!

#486 6 years ago
Quoted from DennisK:

Sadly, I think you misheard (or if I said it wrong then I guess I have another correction to make!). We are not explicit, Flippin' and Mashing is (Brokentoken, Game Room Junkies, and us at EGP are clean-lyics... at least I think the others are). So if you want the f-bombs then Flippin' is what you want for mixed gaming! But if it helps Tony and I do swear a lot, just off-air.

Thanks for your preparation and great questions asked. I learned a bit and it actually peaked my curiosity. Any chance for a mini interview with follow up questions (and some strong language)? Ultimately we will have to wait to see what unfolds, but Robert remains vague about wtf makes their process so revolutionary, fast and cheap.

1) Will 5 days occur in 2018? 2) Is the ruleset for any game divided into selectable preprogrammed components? 3) are the pinball machines modular and/or swappable into a cabinet? 4) will layout be dependent on a screen embedded in playfield? 5) will games consist of a console and virtual reality glasses? 6) is there anyplace to read about their 30+ patent applications filed so far? 7) what kind of company doesn't care if potential customers are turned off by their hiring of JPOP and they don't mind losing sales?

#501 6 years ago
Quoted from BobLangelius:

Does there exist a material you can take a sledge hammer to and it will not leave a mark? Maybe my understanding of sledge hammers is flawed?
Maybe i'm just using the hammer wrong???
Maybe the material is water?
Things that make you go Hmmm...

My guess is the sledge hammer is metaphorical. Because why would you need to use one to test a pin? Normally you'd want the testing of switches, mechanisms and lighting to work flawlessly. Notice how that wasn't mentioned? Robert said he was choosing his words carefully so as not to be accused later of stating something incorrectly. But he wishes to maintain a veil over the new concept.

If the system implements vr and the patents help protect the rules, scoring, layout, sounds, lighting and formatting of data in virtual world, then one could use a virtual sledge hammer on it all day long. What the hammer probably means is that the game will be built to be robust.

Robert was kind enough to respond to my follow up questions above and that helped rule out some possibilities. My theory is if you need 30 new patents to build a pinball, then you are talking about deploying a totally different technology. My hunch that virtual reality plays a big part could explain some other clues given. You don't need a big factory if you are making simple playfields with a few mechanisms. You aren't concerned about parts shortages. New games will cost considerably less. A library of programmed modules can be implemented easily and development cycle time is shredded. Impossible real world conditions are no longer a limiting concern, allowing you to replicate Hans Solo freezing as an example effect. Robert could issue instructions to the team to create something extremely difficult and expect it in 30 days.

This hybrid vr pinball concept would help explain why JPOP was a needed hire. Customer base is expanded well beyond the walls of current pinball players, many of which may not be interested in this concept. While foregoing purchasing one, they still would be interested in playing it on location. JPOP had been working on and thinking about some kind of virtual pinball concept over the years. It wasn't given much attention in all the reporting to date and it never gained traction, but my guess is that Robert had some ideas on how to make it happen and JPOP will be helpful developing the tools and processes to be used. That also could explain why Robert said John's best days are ahead of him.

If it is a hybrid vr pinball, some pieces still don't make sense. Why do you need five days to explain it? Why are the only themes being initially pursued JPOP's original designs? Why is Deeproot offering to work a compromise to make Zidware customers whole?

#506 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

This is not deeproot, this is an image I found when i googled VR Pinball.

That seems a lot closer to what i think is planned. Maybe it incorporates a playfield in a cabinet instead of the simple console shown in your pic.

Also googled an image of the hammer testing phase - which is not Deeproot's, but I can't stop watching.

IMG_2262.GIFIMG_2262.GIF

1 week later
#619 6 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Well I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised to receive a call from Deeproot today to tell me my Zidware claim was approved and I would be receiving paperwork soon in the mail. That's more positive communication than I have received in about 5 years.

Can you break down your deal? When were you originally in and for how much? Then how much do you owe, when and for what?

#627 6 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

In on RAZA starting in 2/12. Paid up in full except the final payment.

I don't know specifics of this company's offer so let me state it like this and you correct it. So you paid in $5k with $5k still owed? And with new deal you will end up paying $5k balance for one game when it's ready?

1 week later
#663 6 years ago

The mind is now open!

openminded (resized).jpgopenminded (resized).jpg
openminded2 (resized).jpgopenminded2 (resized).jpg

-2
#677 6 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

You hit a pothole on accident, I assume. In your control, mostly.
I trusted jpop would deliver his product . Out of my control, mostly.
Two totally different things.

No sense grading your level of mistakes. Buying any game from JPOP was a HUGE gamble. Which would you rather be in the pic below?

IMG_0155.GIFIMG_0155.GIF

Deeproot is a different company and they are offering to credit Zidware customers towards one of their games, once revealed. Whether that is a good deal is a matter for personal reflection.

#679 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Wouldn't car insurance cover it ? Comprehensive ? Minus deductible.
LTG : )

You broke the story first Lloyd. Aurich is an illegal.

1 week later
#743 6 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Is it Day's or Daze?

IMG_0176 (resized).JPGIMG_0176 (resized).JPG

3 months later
#914 5 years ago

"For example, we assessed that the Hobbit COGS which we estimate to be around $6,750.00 would have cost us less than half of that for a similar build using our standard but with JJP’s specs. Even cheaper if we built it from scratch using our standard alone. It’s been a great teaching tool."

Not possible, Deeproot is not capturing all cost types. Owning and maintaining major equipment adds millions. Their concept requires a large inventory of parts and subassemblies, which requires millions. Labor also includes indirect labor, general overhead and taxes on direct labor, company taxes and insurance need to be addressed. Sales, warranty support, training, waste and breakage and downtime have to be added too. Once all are summed, there is no chance these amount to half of industry's cost to make.

The fixed costs should be spread over a short five year period, any longer and you are being too optimistic. Next 9 months is spent designing, setting up manufacturing, parts tooling. Assume DR sells 3K games a year for 4 years. Take all costs for five years and divide into 12k games. I am going to ballpark their need for funds at $24M and spread over 12k games is $2k of each machine. Add direct cost to manufacture each per game which is likely to approach $3k at least, and we are realistically looking at a total cost per game of $5k.

Add in the fact DR is bringing together new processes, new materials and new manufacturing while still designing 5+ new pins and hoping to complete everything together by 9 months and this causes inefficiencies, mistakes and expediting costs on everything. I'll add a conservative 25 % to cover that and my back of envelope estimate is these games will cost DR $6.25k. DP estimates their cost at half of JJP's $6.735k, when theirs is probably the same. My math may be squirrelly but no way no how can DR build a pinball machine for $3.25k. Unless it was VR like and therefore having little direct costs. One thing is certain ... Deeproot has deep pockets. ... that and they can spin a good yarn.

#940 5 years ago

Pinball manufacturers better not plan on selling more than 1k to 2k machines of any given title in this market. By March 2019 at TPF, there may be up to 5 titles available from DR. Stern will offer 3 - Maiden, a new title and with one more announced. AP will have 2 with Houdini and a second release. Spooky will have 2 with TNA and ACNC. JJP have 1 with POTC. Finally CC will have 2 - AFMr and MBr. 15 new in box games vying for buyers. What if every one of them is off the charts perfect? I have room for maybe 1 more pin, but with buyers having lots of choices, manufacturers are still splitting one small pie of customers buying one or more titles. Sure the market of buyers is growing, but not at a pace to sell 5k units of each new pin to. For that reason, most manufactures will be selling an average of 1k machines per release and up to 2k pins if title is really good. Stern will still be big dog with higher sales than ever, but its market share will drop from 90 to 75%.

#974 5 years ago

A resin playfield is a big innovation as it won't dimple and it lends itself to multiple surface types. They don't need to worry about whether 8 ply or 12 ply walnut is good enough and whether their source for blanks is consistent. A flat playfield could include an area with raised mounds and craters like the moon's surface.

Other possible design elements - use air to move the ball via suctioning instead of a vertical mounted magnet. I'd like to see magnets deployed in place of all coils, vuks, flippers and slingshots. Doing that and swapping arm and rollover switches with optos would kill their need for the common playfield parts used today. Ok maybe keep the flippers,but everything else has got to go. Poured material is probably easier to embed and attach wire forms and ramps to also. I hope they add a loop ramp and corkscrew ramp to their standard repertoire and that they raise playfield glass height to allow balls to be launched from end of pf to the other. Could we see a catapult launch the ball 50 inches? I'm serious, can we see a catapult launch the ball 50 inches and a magnet grab it, please?

All of these would combine to simplify DR's manufacturing process and Operators would see lower operating cost, minimum maintenance and games that work. But innovation costs more money than the traditional way to do things until you implement in volume. For that reason DR won't be producing many $3.5k games. But if their pins are fun and worth the cost, they can meet their objectives and maybe they will succeed. What other innovations could DR's pinball future hold?

#975 5 years ago

Some people are stupid

IMG_0390.GIFIMG_0390.GIF

or just poor dumb bastards.
IMG_0392.GIFIMG_0392.GIF

There's a few winners

IMG_0391.GIFIMG_0391.GIF

and dreamers.

IMG_0393.GIFIMG_0393.GIF

But some guys are nuts!

2 weeks later
#1032 5 years ago

I plan on entering deep root's giveaways and if no one wants to sign up for John's pin, I might win it.

#1039 5 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

They never said they are giving free games, did they?

In twip interview Deeproot was said to be giving one of each designers pins away "for free". I think some of of the paid in full people get a Deeproot game in "exchange" for their financial loss.

1 week later
#1113 5 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

He who must not be named, like Voldemort but starts with a K and ends with an a.

Kvoldemorta?

#1117 5 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

This really_ comes across corny to me.
Lots of the smoke and mirrors from them is very off putting to me. I'd like to skip all this and just get to the product I can buy. Please.

Well mark your calendar for Sat, March 23, 2019 - the second day of TPF is the official 5th day of deeproot. Everything about the company and its offerings are revealed by this date. Two titles are guaranteed to be offered - RAZA and MG. Might be one or two others. AIW will not be available until a later date - it is probably nowhere near ready.

On a separate note This week in Pinball TWIP identifies original Houdini and Fire & Brimstone as confirmed themes, so I'll let you connect the dots on games #3 & #4 that we might also see. I'll point out that Robert Mueller was indignant about Stern stealing Godzilla from Charlie, but he doesn't see the hypocrisy in his producing Houdini, when AP is already successfully delivering a full featured Houdini. Go figure

Robert Mueller has said before he intends to be able to ship games within two weeks of ordering. He mentions testing out his manufacturing process and building some early games before the 5DoDR. As the end date is fixed, if they are running behind they may need to reduce what is shown. I think this translates back into showing 2 games in the worst case and up to 4 games if everything falls into place. I hope they don't mention any games that are not ready at that presentation.

#1127 5 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Best quote of the interview:
"We're done with quad-assembly, we're doing octo-assembly now."

Amp it up.

#1139 5 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Is Houdini the same design?

No totally different design. If DR wants to develop a magic themed pin, there is room for another, but market saturation might bite them in the ass. But when Josh was building Houdini he had to get a license so I can't see DR being able to pick the same license. Rethemed as David Copperfield or a David Blaine though, might breathe some fresh air into their design. Particularly challenging to building another Houdini pin are that his best known tricks are already captured by AP and the dialog and screens they provide are historically accurate and educational. Just doesn't make any sense to proceed on another Houdini. Time for DR to go in another direction on their magical pin, if they haven't already done so. :pullingarabbitoutofmyhat:

#1141 5 years ago

Well we've guessed 3 of the top 5 greatest magician already. Before you look, do you know he other two licenses?

IMG_0479 (resized).PNGIMG_0479 (resized).PNG
#1151 5 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Penn and Teller are the best!

Unsure why Penn and Teller wouldn't be lumped together nor why one has a better ranking? Haven't they performed together for years?

#1161 5 years ago

Anybody think DR should contract with Ben Heck to work with JPOP to redesign Houdini into Ben Heck's Hallucinogenic Lab Trip? It would be a hard sell to get Ben onboard given the impossible assignment. But if they worked together and brought back the same art style .... Wowza!

#1216 5 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

The preorder price for an Emerald City LE WOZ was actually $6,500 back in about 2011, as I recall. Many enthusiasts deemed that price point to be outrageously high, even though the game was packed with endless high-end features. Oh. . .the good old days. . .

funny thing is, as stupid as it was to preorder WOZ from a new company on their first pinball, some took it further and paid in full to to get free shipping. In spite of the roller coaster ride, all received their games. So $6.5k delivered for nib WOZ and no sales tax. Boom! a when-pigs-fly success story with a jackpot at the end of the rainbow.

1 week later
#1347 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

I meant concept, not necessarily copying Pinball 2000.

I agree, they are a very ahead of their time company.
I think Heighway was on track to do this too. They were able to do it for under 4 minutes.

I like watching that video in a loop. One of the few that think HP's swappable concept was the right way to go. Not having spare parts to plug in was its downfall. That was exasperated by extreme underfunding of the company. Wishing someone else would give it a go.

#1374 5 years ago


I hear about pinball people going there. Well known designers, engineers etc too. But these underlings are not seen or heard from again. Add to that we've seen no products. What is really going on inside that building?? Not even day 1 of deeproot. Is Robert washing brains and reprogramming his believers?

IMG_0503 (resized).PNGIMG_0503 (resized).PNG
#1376 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Their website is chock full of information for inquiring minds that would like to know.
http://deeprootpinball.com/

hahahaha at first glance nada.

... but click on W and you enter another world. You gleen few tidbits like there are 31 members and their titles. deeproot is looking to bring on three more people per posted ads. I've learned nothing about what the company really does yet. Yeah you can even send in your resume if you would like an invite to join the club.

1 month later
#1488 5 years ago

Loved those exercise and jazzercise tapes in the 80's. Sweating to the oldies volume 3 rocked. Not sure I need a fancy pinball machine to deliver my exercise.

jazzercize2 (resized).jpgjazzercize2 (resized).jpg

jazzercize3 (resized).jpgjazzercize3 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#1611 5 years ago

If it is not Predator or Jaws 3, I hope it is Bernie’s.

38B6971B-0D10-45D1-9814-D38310D96850 (resized).png38B6971B-0D10-45D1-9814-D38310D96850 (resized).png
#1642 5 years ago

Gottlieb’s Krull is finally going into production?

1A0A0AA5-E028-4100-8EC0-1BDD81D187C2 (resized).jpeg1A0A0AA5-E028-4100-8EC0-1BDD81D187C2 (resized).jpeg

0C276ED3-5390-4019-A78E-DE2201DBF10E (resized).jpeg0C276ED3-5390-4019-A78E-DE2201DBF10E (resized).jpeg3F509835-9A5E-42B4-A90B-5E09E98C7448 (resized).jpeg3F509835-9A5E-42B4-A90B-5E09E98C7448 (resized).jpeg440D48D0-C96C-4D21-9676-F2A3FB4EB96C (resized).jpeg440D48D0-C96C-4D21-9676-F2A3FB4EB96C (resized).jpeg
#1686 5 years ago

Deeproot won’t have a game to show, so the seminar will be about Deeproot and their processes. It may prove interesting, but is nothing to get excited about. Their seminar at TPF in March will be the one to watch. That’s where they bring finished games

#1798 5 years ago

Going to be hard to beat 1980. 27 new titles from the Big 3. 8 pins by Williams, 10 by Bally and 9 by Stern.

46299E10-7041-4A7B-8FD4-C96D866C3AE9 (resized).jpeg46299E10-7041-4A7B-8FD4-C96D866C3AE9 (resized).jpegBE893090-0C88-4177-867D-E2C7A6D2E32B (resized).jpegBE893090-0C88-4177-867D-E2C7A6D2E32B (resized).jpeg
F7E7E4E3-F410-408F-95FD-2D1824272A13 (resized).jpegF7E7E4E3-F410-408F-95FD-2D1824272A13 (resized).jpeg

6 months later
#3352 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

DR has to "deliver" games either in person or to a shipper by June 30th. 3 games are supposed to be presented for selection 30 days prior.
If "delivery" doesn't occur by June 30th then "customer" is entitled to compensation in the amount of the "cumulative deposit". Customer will have the option within 180 days from "Delivery date" to roll the credit forward by submitting the request in writing.
I'm just reading directly from the contract. Pretty simple.
Robert actually reached out to some people like myself to get the agreements in before May 31st, which i had forgotten about. And he didn't have to do that.

The way you described things there is no penalty for Deeproot being late. Either they return deposits or hold deposits at owner’s request for later pin. In this case the best play is to request your money back. Once money is in hand, consider using it to buy a game that physically exists - one from JJP, CGC, Spooky, AP or Stern.

My understanding of the Deeproot agreement is much different, although I am not a claimant. In addition to your money returned, you are entitled to one of the games. So the penalty was Deeproot losing your $4600 deposit while still providing you a game a few weeks following availability. It was their promise to deliver said product by said date and this penalty provided confidence to those claimants, many of whom then ponied up $4k to Deeproot.

I could be dead wrong about this point, but it seems like a question mark. I also recall the agreement was about ten pages long and it contained much jargon (I was thinking while reading that maybe I wasn’t smart enough to be a Deeproot customer). Do we know how many claims were received? Guess 100 claims @ $5k per pin is $.5M of deposits to be returned and a penalty of $.5M when those games are eventually built.

#3358 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That’s upon default of non delivery by June 30th. Within 60 days. Full cash refund
I prefer a pinball machine regardless of having to wait. I’ve gotta a lot of experience in waiting

What’s the line on the races today? I want a $3 trifecta ticket on what gets delivered first. You have production schedules, right? I’ll bet Alien fully redesigned and with B/W parts followed by Deeproot Pinball #1 followed by TBL shipping to EA’s - all crossing the line by Christmas 2019. I figure if the odds are 1 in a million, $3M ought to be enough to retire. On the other hand, I can afford to lose $3 and realize I am flushing money down the toilet at the onset.

#3368 4 years ago
Quoted from jellikit:

6. Star Wars topper receives final approval and begins delivery.

JJP has a few promising entries in today’s race.

7 POTC’s GOAT

8 WonkaHype Isreal

#3394 4 years ago

As long as we are reliving dreams ... did you buy many of the spare CV playfields that went for $25? That would have been a ridiculous return if you bought 10 and could sell each for $800 today. That’s 3200% or vaguely 100% annually for 32 years. If you were a stock broker, people would read your whispers

#3400 4 years ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

No CV playfields but I did buy 12 each of Fire!, Space Station, and F-14 playfields that Roger Sharpe rescued from the trash and brought to one of the Expos. 10 bucks each. Still bundled in stacks of four as I remember. Then I won a raffle for 12 more playfields! Every friend and relative of mine had them hanging on their basement walls. At least until they started selling for 200+ bucks each. Then they started disappearing.
There were also stacks of translites for the above games plus Big Guns. They were about 2 bucks each I think. Also complete playfield plastics sets. Crazy times.

Had a chance to buy 10 CP playfields @$150 each a few years back and passed out of principle. $10 for a playfield is juicy my friend.

6 months later
#5586 4 years ago

While wanting to keep prices low, my guess is Robert will pick $5.5k. While $5k would be nice, a fully featured, high end pin will have a large bill of material, expect to pay $5.5k. Just below Stern’s pro. Goody bag includes a 30 lb sledge hammer, for testing playfields.

-3
#5725 4 years ago

Reveal was a non-story. It shows a full size playfield and a layout without signature mechs. Everything is subject to change. Yawn ... wake me in June when dr has a final product to review and a price.

#5909 4 years ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

Alright so I got to spend some time on it. I’d like to think I have a little skill to me as I won the state championship in Oklahoma and was ranked in the top 40 on the stern circuit for most of the season. These are my thoughts and my thoughts only, I don’t have a horse in this race and hope every pinball that comes out is successful.
The game is prototype for sure. I can’t speak for coding (very early stages) or artwork as I believe it’s not final. Many of the shots weren’t doing anything or were very buggy which was expected. What I can speak to is playfield design and how the shots were.
The right ramp has a feature with 3/4 of the middle of it missing completely. If you don’t hit this ramp solid, it won’t make it around the ramp without the speed. It’ll simply fall back to the playfield.
The skill shot can actually go to the outlane, similar to Congo. The kickback then sent it back up to an area that is like a “snake feed” that goes back to the playfield.
There is a magna save. It’s more similar to Pharaoh’s magna save and the button is on the right side of the cabinet. It’s in such a place that you won’t accidentally hit it.
One of the main multiball features is started by hitting a roving target in the back. It was supposed to spell zombie and then start a multiball we believe, but the software never allowed for that feature to start.
Alright so, how does it shoot? Honestly after about 20 minutes, I went from being really excited to play it to an uh-oh feeling. The game plays very slow.
The orbits were moderate to hit. The shots seemed earlier on the flippers than expected. Both shots seemed to feed back to the opposite flipper, though it hung up a couple of times.
The ramps were another story. We kept count. I was 0 for 12 getting the ball successfully up the ride the coasters ramp (right ramp). Not 0 for 12 misses, that’s how many rejects I had from a trap. Either the flippers weren’t strong enough or that shot is only an on the fly shot. Across 4 players we were 0 for 20. I’ll try the other pin today and see if that was just a fluke.
The dare devil cycle shot was reject city. We’d get clean hits, the bottom would kinda lift up and the ball would just come back to the flippers. Think of the Death Star shot on Star Wars, but without the speed and it being closer to you.
The atomic shop shot reminded me of the orb shot on GOTG. It was a fairly safe return. I think a ball was supposed to lock behind it, but when I hit it nothing happened.
The spinning Oozie shot really killed any flow of the game for me. The ball seemed to spend more time being deflected off of it and trickle back to flippers. We hit it a few times to spin it, but the shot itself wasn’t satisfying and seemed to be more of a flow killer.
I’m going to play it some more today and try out the other prototype they brought. I’ll probably have some more thoughts on it later today. As of right now I’m underwhelmed by the gameplay itself. Compared to JP and Wonka on shot flow or just design, it’s not in the same ball park. If you love these games, then I’d probably advised to dial down expectations when stepping up to RAZA. Shots on this aren’t necessarily tight as it is that the geometry just makes the game play ok. When you do brick a shot (and it’ll happen more often then not) it didn’t feel like you were going to be punished for it.
I’m sure the entire package (art/sound) will come together come March. I wish Deeproot the best and hope they can back up everything that has been touted for the past couple of years. I really want my expectations to be matched and for this to be a kick ass pin. At this point though, with how it actually plays, it was underwhelming.

Thanks for your detailed analysis and impressions. Your review of RAZA reminds me of playing WOZ prototype with no code thru it’s development into a full production game with basic code, thru today where it is maybe #1 code. The game always shot clunky, but you felt there was potential for greatness with programming. It finished a clunky masterpiece, that I don’t like to shoot. Maybe dr will take the RAZA impressions received to heart, and change some of the geometry. That would be a win / win for everybody.

#5920 4 years ago

Robert takes a celebratory lap around Houston Arcade Expo’s parking lot before driving back to deeprofot’s lab. Six months of work until Spring, and Robert will emerge with a completed game or will see his shadow and be spooked underground for six more months.

5835A497-D4CF-45E2-AFA9-5012A0DE5E10.gif5835A497-D4CF-45E2-AFA9-5012A0DE5E10.gif

#6240 4 years ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Well I couldn't help but have a bit of a play with what could possibly be added without really changing the layout, and considering some things said about the code:
Steven Bowden - TWIP interview:
"However, connected to this is an X-story “tower” (not revealing how large “X” is) of other, more focused activities to accomplish where you can go deeper into the story… . You can have lots of fun hanging out in the base areas of the Adventureland, but what could be at the top of this hypothetical tower?"
So I'm guessing this somehow would tie to a "Tower Mech", a physical location on the playfield, and the 4 inserts above flippers. Also something pretty Suss!! ... the Total lack of inserts right between the slings, perfectly sized for a display?. That "NED" is certainly going to need to be animated at least, and maybe some interactivity or additional mech as well.
Here's my theoretical "premium RAZA" by covering a pic in grafiti lol
[quoted image]

Pretty good mockup you've deduced so far and am reposting it as is. I suspect the ramp will incorporate a yet to be seen diverter mech allowing for player-controlled ball exit to left or right return ramps.

If dr builds it as you've drawn, puts in all additional planned enhancements and charges no more than $5k, I am 100% in. Robert's goal is to design and build high value-to-cost pinball machines. That would be enough to get me onboard the deeproot train. Choo Choo !!
Razza_v3.pngRazza_v3.png

#6322 4 years ago

Very good interview with Robert Mueller on Kaneda's podcast. This is Robert's final interview until launching in March 2020. I won't tease you with some of his claims but the interview is 118 min long and worth a listen.

26
#6329 4 years ago
Quoted from cait001:

can someone just give us a 2 paragraph summary?

As Robert Mueller's interview is pertinent to this thread, I will post some highlights. There are plenty of interesting points and comments made, so listen for yourself.

* Playfield will be made of wood and it can take sledge hammer without enduring damage.

* Deeproot will encounter the same manufacturing challenges as everyone else.

* There won't be any great initial awareness that the product is innovative. When you see all of their games and you open them up and see how they go together, you'll see the innovation more clearly. (oh brother).

* Customer may have options for playfield art, cabinet art and customization of the game.

* Robert is waiting to set game pricing until before launch. Won't price it at a discount. Robert maintains he will provide value, but not all at the Stern pro price.

* There may be three levels of every game released. Undefined what this means. (Robert implies that certain models with have more value and indicates more mechs or more software for a higher price and a version without that is lower cost). They will be pricing some games below market and some above market (I see Robert releasing models in all ranges between $4k - $15k).

* Robert says that he does not read Pinside anymore because it is too negative. "Pinside is a sewer" and any feedback is worthless and goes right in the trash. (He said this three times but I wonder why he can't get find any constructive feedback here. He is right that Pinside can be negative, but there is plenty of great observations and analysis from my armchair perspective. His comment is suspect since the stated reason for going to Houston was to get feedback).

* Deeproot has 21 games in design. 13 are 50% and the rest are 15%.

* All games will be different from one another in style, content, target demographic, skill level.

* Zombie Yeti's version of "artwork on Raza was a hack job".

* "Stern is weak".

#6347 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Thanks jeffspinballpalace for summarizing R. Mueller's interview !

All we need to know is how many are at 100%. How long did Jpop games remain at XX% ?

There was plenty of humor in the interview. Hackjob Yeti is my favorite artist.

Deep-root has shown they can design and build (2) prototype games of RAZA and that is big deal. Every story told about the pinball business is making pinballs is hard. Specifically, the physical manufacturing thru shipping. That part has yet to come, so as hard as Deeproot feels they have worked to get here, the road ahead is uphill and steeper.

Robert admitted his manufacturing will still occur in the real world and will face same challenges as any manufacturer. There is no magic pixie dust being proposed. I see little way dr could be more efficient than Stern,’who has armored itself over 60 years of making pinballs. If Robert allows small batches of games to be built on demand, that would be an innovation and better than Stern. Stern is so big that their run sizes are bigger and it takes them awhile to switchover between titles. The production schedule is more rigid. However Stern has control over their parts supplies and some over the demand side. When Stern get enough interest in a title (orders), they run more to meet demand. In that way they fine tune product mix.

#6396 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sure and Lorne Greene died back in the 1980s too. Why not do Bonanza as well. Anybody up for a HossLE?

I’m a Gunsmoke fan. Learned right from wrong by listening to Lawman Lucas McCain. We only know a few of Deeproot’s 13 titles. The others will by definition be a surprise. If one was Gunsmoke, I wouldn’t be surprised.
A4B5EE71-51F9-46DA-9DF5-E3FF98A9F243 (resized).jpegA4B5EE71-51F9-46DA-9DF5-E3FF98A9F243 (resized).jpeg

#6403 4 years ago

Gunsmoke

Winchester Model 1892 mode -> sharpshoot 12 targets in 5 seconds to live and fight another day.

#6424 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This thread has taken an unsavory turn!
Odin wants every thread to be That 70s thread!

That might just work.

5C428989-F595-4DF6-8CD5-716D20A73A36.gif5C428989-F595-4DF6-8CD5-716D20A73A36.gif7276E9B4-6551-4F9C-AA3E-E534EC642735.gif7276E9B4-6551-4F9C-AA3E-E534EC642735.gif
#6513 4 years ago

Of course Pinside is a target customer for Deeproot and we are the biggest organized pinball group. Pinsiders play pinball and buy pinball machines and Deeproot is planning to make and sell pinball machines, right? Robert wants educated customers who see value and Pinside is already tuned into looking for features and mechs. WTF is Robert thinking?

#6612 4 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

That's the deeproot fund. It's a different LLC than the deeproot pinball company. It's unclear how Deeproot pinball is operating, whether it has access to monies from the sales of equity in the deeproot fund.
https://the575.com/
Says the fund is backed by life insurance policies "and affiliates". No idea if a pinball machine company is considered an affiliate.

Theory A -

If Deeproot’s burn rate is $750k per month and as they missed Expo 18, let’s say they are 18 mo behind schedule. Deeproot will have spent $13 million more than expected if RAZA is ready in March 20. If they had raised $6M in a public offering, Robert would need to be dipping into some of his personal money to keep afloat. Maybe that’s what he meant. Shareholders? Ha their money is gone. It is now Robert’s money funding the pinball division and that is why he said his money.

#6668 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I’ll PayPal $2 to anybody who actually read all of that.
Honor system!!!

CrazyLevi challenges a grasshopper to peel $2 from his soles or “face” the consequences.
4373D690-C985-44FB-B33F-08CF941A6EA9.gif4373D690-C985-44FB-B33F-08CF941A6EA9.gif

#6712 4 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

So, anyone interrested in Deeproot is advised to ignore this thread until march 2020.
Nothing to see here.

Depends. If you came for information about Deeproot, come back in March 2020. But if you are here to get deeprooted or if you came for rumor, drama, speculation or if have a conspiracy theory, welcome home.

#6797 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Doesn’t DR actually owe a lot of people games?
And what does “we’ll see what happens” mean? I hear that one a lot lately.

How many people have paid for games, any guesses?

Weren’t there about 120ish RAZA’s purchased? Many had to pay in more but not all customers qualified. Most did so there are maybe 100 games in question. Some opted for refunds after the imposed deadline passed, so maybe 75 games are owed. If games sell for $5.5k, they have a $400k liability to Zidware customers coming from $38 million of equity raised. I’d consider that a minimal risk for Deeproot.

1 month later
#7178 4 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Financial talk aside our Deeproot playfield arrived today and I must say it is refreshing to see pinball art like this alive and well. Really is rather beautiful in person. Have not had a chance to play the game yet but Very much looking forward to it!![quoted image]

That's a beauty all right. Have you tried hitting it with a sledge hammer yet? Maybe follow that up with the old jack hammer slammer. I heard it was indestructible.

1 month later
#7512 4 years ago

How many are still on board to receive their paid in full RAZA? Guessing about 50 people, maybe as high as 100? Those folks have a vested interest in seeing Deeproot succeed. Everyone else is in a wait and see mode. Show us something that wows us and we may get excited.

#7545 4 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Noone wants swappable playfields.

If rumors prove true, he will be getting what he wished for.

4 weeks later
#7997 4 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Wondering if the Deeproot launch will happen in my kids lifetime.

There aren’t many certainties in life, but by the time they release their 13th pin, you will have slapped your forehead and proclaimed deeproot to be a revolutionary pinball company.

2 weeks later
#8082 3 years ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Maybe Deeproot should explore making ventilators.

Any company that already makes small assemblies or electrical devices could quickly receive electrical approval and begin making ventilators. All of them pulling together could supply unmet need for ventilators. Any company that already sews clothing, drapery or costumes could supply unmet need by switching to face masks and gowns. Any company that already makes kitchen items, does 3d printing or manufactures consumer products could supply unmet need for gloves. Instead we are talking to GM?

I think deeproot would be excellently suited for and may even up to the challenge of building ventilators. Some of today's large companies began as early suppliers of goods during the war. That may divert deeproot's attention towards bigger and better things. But if you were Robert - would you rather be remembered 1) as the guy who designed the world's finest pinball machine, which features an indestructible playfield, but whose company went bellyup in 2023, having made and sold less than 10k games or 2) as the guy who designed and built ventilators in a time of crisis and whose work saved tens of thousands of lives?

5 months later
#9733 3 years ago

Can’t wait, an IJ pin from dr will be great.

#9831 3 years ago

What’s the word @ dr? Reporters crawling all over HQ and no news or communication leaking, sux.

#9833 3 years ago
Quoted from Krupps4:

$3500? I’d be all over a RAZA for the price, but I also think it’s totally unrealistic.

Order it now for $5k delivered would scratch my sweet spot

#9872 3 years ago

This thread is on fire! We are all here, full of hope and expectations, and yet dr gives us nothing ??? It is going to be hard for RAZA to match the hype.

#9923 3 years ago

Octo Manufacturing ???

3F655F56-DEFE-4087-A964-38CA57C955BA.gif3F655F56-DEFE-4087-A964-38CA57C955BA.gif4847BA2B-4BF1-46E4-BD52-9921717DDA1E.gif4847BA2B-4BF1-46E4-BD52-9921717DDA1E.gif
#10448 3 years ago

Deeproot gave a großer Schacht to the pinball community today, and they spent the afternoon brutally deeprooting her.

.

#10574 3 years ago

I was hoping the new cabinet came with 8 legs.

#10658 3 years ago
5B7B0DA6-428D-4BED-8BEA-B627B3A0D766.jpeg5B7B0DA6-428D-4BED-8BEA-B627B3A0D766.jpeg
#11182 3 years ago

Reading through the twip update of dr, a number of things are appealing with the new cabinet and apron designs. Many of the original themes sound good too. One big take away for me was that the basic “arcade” model has nothing vertical above the cabinet. Don’t worry about the stilts, you won’t have them or the lighted fish tank translite to complain about.

#11360 3 years ago

I was hoping for a pinhelmet rather than the pinbar. Think and it happens. Whether a mindmeld or a total mindf&@k with no need to touch buttons or a screen. Sheesh, Star Trek has that figured out 30 years ago.

Prediction - Deeproot’s third reveal of RAZA will be a success in June 2021.

-2
#11499 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I am still failing to see why this is any different at all from the P3 system? 2 screens, check. Menu system? Check. Online play and leader boards? Check. WTF? At least P3 games have a start button

I believe dr’s intent is for both displays to reflect the same info. For that reason, you should only count 1 screen for RAZA. The arcade model eliminates the backbox and the rear display anyways. The pinbar is a display AND a touchscreen and only access point for menu.

All Deeproot games will ship with one pinbar. If you buy the x or xtra models, you’ll get a duplicate display (slightly bigger but further away) under backbox. The pinbar can be removed and used elsewhere. When that happen, the source game is unplayable yet it will have zero displays.

#11512 3 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Read the TWIP article again...the Arcade Edition HAS A BACKBOX!!!
It is a standard style backbox with hinges, the panoramic wrap, and a 24” display.
Where in the world did you come up with this???

As the standard head wasn’t pictured, but rather the x head was shown twice, I got that mixed up. If I had read the description for the arcade model, it would have cleared things up.

16
#12034 3 years ago

Now that deep root’s innovations have been identified and listed, I spent some time considering them. Many are fine and a few are good ideas too. Taken together, most pinball players would agree the Pinbar (tm) adds much capability and value. Is that enough to make me want to buy one? Well if the low end model is priced @ $5.5k like a Stern pro and it has the above value included, I’d be interested in trying one of the pins. If it is priced like a Stern prem @ $7.5k, which it is probably worth, I am not interested, as I want a Ferrari for Kia pricing. So if Robert Mueller gives us a premium at the price of a pro, I’d have to act. Maybe more features added, might increase what I’m willing to pay. What kinds of features you ask?

Pinscale (tm) - optional pad inside cabinet can be placed on the floor and when Player steps on it announces his weight. Can be adjusted to lock refridgerator when needed.

Pinpressure (tm) - optional arm cuff can be worn and Player’s blood pressure is announced. Can be adjusted to dial 411 at certain trigger levels.

Pinheart (tm) - optional chest band can be worn to periodically announce Player’s heart rate. Can be adjusted to cockblock all earned multiballs until Player has returned to their safe heart range.

Pindiabetes (tm) - Player can slam their hand down on corner of Pinbar (tm) to create a prick. Simply drain some blood on the Pinbar (tm) and it can be analyzed for blood sugar level. Immediately alerts Player if they need to eat a hotdog or ice cream sundae.

Pindating (tm) - optional profile can be created and a single status will actively shop that Player to 3.2 biillion women on earth.

Pinpuncher (tm) - optional boxing glove subassembly can be attached to the coin door and it will punch Player in the nuts based on certain score level triggers or for restarting a bad game.

Pinvacuum (tm) - optional air hose can be pulled from coin door and pump turned on to create a hand wand with major sucking action. Do you have something that needs to be cleaned? Well use the hose.

Pindongledisplaycase (tm) - with all this happening we are going to need a lot of dongles. Optional leather display case with see through glass window allows Player to see their dongles working while seeing them arranged in industrial fashion.

Pintread (tm) - optional roller assembly stores under pinball machine until needed. Place in front of pin, climb on and begin walking your way to a high score, one step at a time. Every mile earns one million points. Can be set to pay off in 1/10 mile increments.

Pinwrassler (tm) - optional subassembly stores inside pin and attaches to front of pin atop the glass. Purple Knight topper is added to top of pinball machine. Ever wanted to challenge a mechanical arm wrestling machine to a true test of manhood. Well now you can and the purple knight will look down and hurl insults while you sweat.

PinAli (tm) - optional arm attaches to top of backbox and places a punching bag to one side. Surprise your guests by hitting hard and scoring big with the ladies.

Pinsick - optional handsfree measure of Player’s temperature that will turn off pinball machine and schedule a covid test if you have a fever.

PinPinside (tm)(tm) - dictate a review and have it automatically uploaded to a Pinside club thread.

Pin2pay (tm) - use Pinbar (tm) to surf the web, pay bills electronically, check bank account balances, buy and sell stock, swap recipes, order dinner, research genealogy or just send the pinball technician a love note.

Pinbunny (tm) - allows Player to charge their iPhone, iPod and PC battery over WiFi.

Pinbookie (tm) - allows Player to place bets on the winner of pinball tournaments and local horse races or it will allow $1 wagers on multiplayer games.

Pinfortune (tm) - hands free dialing to Player’s choice among all the hottest tv psychics. Learn your fate as Thanos delivers his.

PinPocketPinball (tm) - optional wheels and axles stored inside pinball machine form a pair of pinskates. Small motor and gears inside pinball machine allow Player to drive his pin wherever he goes. Roadworthy and sidewalk approved, you can hitch the PinPocketPinball (th) to the back of your suv and take your pin anywhere you go. Link multiple PinPocketPinballs together and take your whole pinball collection with you.

#12329 3 years ago

Next up,

Redesign of RAZA is temporarily paused, while dr is now laser focused on developing cars for their employees to travel back and forth to work. Robert took inspiration from 1980’s vehicles and is building them as exact replica’s of the finest examples from this age with one difference. Each car comes with a Pinbar (tm) and the dash has been scooped out to allow docking. Robert explained, “each pinball designer has different needs so the community will notice there is much variety between our offered models. The cars are all in various stages of completion and we plan to (hope to but will probably postpone) show them off at TPF 2021. Automotive companies may choose to license our designs to produce these models once they see how swell they are. We will also be totally disrupting the auto industry. We want car renters to ask themselves, where’s the Pinbar (tm) in this here car you gave me?

As a bonus with fun exercise, try to match Deeproot’s pinball designers including Robert to a car model.

09262CB6-979D-410E-9DD2-0F473258AB51.jpeg09262CB6-979D-410E-9DD2-0F473258AB51.jpeg

798279EC-42B3-4A6F-B505-985DB9E070AE.jpeg798279EC-42B3-4A6F-B505-985DB9E070AE.jpegB2595093-720F-40F5-9A6F-9F14963D7969.jpegB2595093-720F-40F5-9A6F-9F14963D7969.jpegBAAE3B0C-ADD4-43C4-AE87-DBC1DB3A874F.jpegBAAE3B0C-ADD4-43C4-AE87-DBC1DB3A874F.jpegFAB693B1-7D31-4C58-9150-9F0F63A0FA9D.jpegFAB693B1-7D31-4C58-9150-9F0F63A0FA9D.jpeg6757EB87-6CDE-4B0F-B3EC-B0889AA74C11.jpeg6757EB87-6CDE-4B0F-B3EC-B0889AA74C11.jpeg
#12410 3 years ago

I’d like to see these in real life, so putting them in the game will hold sentimental value.

D7CD3C80-587F-4AE7-8AFD-A0A5DC159918.jpegD7CD3C80-587F-4AE7-8AFD-A0A5DC159918.jpegF29153CB-C7B2-43A8-BB3D-EB26F8A98B60.jpegF29153CB-C7B2-43A8-BB3D-EB26F8A98B60.jpeg
1 week later
#12686 3 years ago

Besides the need for Deeproot to skinny down their pc to lower build costs and the futility of withholding game production due to wanting to get it perfect the first time .... pfffft.

One thing that bugs me about dr design is you are encouraged to leave the game on all the time. This allows it to find and use the network. This is a major flaw for their sales to consumer market. I would not keep my game on for 24/7 just to be using it 1 hour per day. Waste of energy and money plus more maintenance. Do I want my pin’s pc to age faster by a factor of 23x when I get no benefit during the normally “off hours”? No I do not. It may work fine for locations who keep their pins turned on 16 to 24 hours per day. I see this requirement as misguided for home use.

Deeproot’s pinbar design is also a loser. It has way too many things it is trying to do. Seems Robert forgot the first rule of industrial design ... keep it simple, stupid. Deeproot needs to cut 70% of the advertised features on the pinbar until it can handle 5 or 6 features flawlessly. Pick the best and most important ones and focus on transforming the industry.

There is a longtime industry practice which says don’t release a pin with more than one new significant change. History shows when pinball companies try to get too far into the future, those pin always fail. People want different but can only embrace it in bite-size snackable pieces.

1 month later
#13783 3 years ago

Blueberry has become the man of the month with his sleuthing. Thanks for posting and including links.

Only way I can see this concept working for deep root is adjusting the terms now. First, $50 per month or $550 annually is too much for a subscription. Reduce amount to $21 per month and the plan might work. Base price of game $5k + $100 shipping + $250 per year to include upgrades and new modes is a small pill to swallow. Second, limit # years required to pay for support to 3 years, when it becomes free for life. So if you keep the game, the cost is capped and it is a known amount $5,850, which is very competitive with Stern. Third, they could switch from subscription to dlc model and that means changing what your payment buys from access to new modes to a recorded license fee. The license stays with the pin. So a Seller loses their rights to purchased upgrades and Buyer gains these rights. Making these rights transferable. Other concerns voiced include what happens if DR stops supporting any of their own games? In that case, I agree that all upgrades should be given free to current game owners and it should be perpetually available on a server. The code needs to be there forever. Any of the above changes would be welcome and might help deep root to survive for another day.

If they make it that far, all they’ll need to figure out is how to manufacture a game. I am thinking RAZA might be delivered by late 2021 and Goonies to follow late 2022. Nothing fast happens in pinball. It will be hard for Robert to hold the company together until then, in my opinion. Ten years to release one title with a second pinball game queued up is no way to run a successful business.

#13785 3 years ago

Yeah, my Spotify subscription is never going to leave, and its $10 a month for unlimited music. I know that is way too much, but it is tolerable for now. Patreon for pinball podcasts costs $6 a month. Monthly life alert service for the mother-in-law is $24 a month. That is my limit of subscriptions - $40 a month, and fortunately - no car payments nor house payments. So would I like to jump to $90 a month? No way, because that feels like a partial car payment. Well no way unless the pinball machine was free

#13788 3 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

No cell phone or internet??

Yes all the regular charges still apply like cell, internet, gas, electric, water and property taxes. Oops I did forget one recurring charge that is fixed and just like a subscription - my storage unit is $125 a month. It is pinball related too because it stores overflow pins. So damn, I am up to $165 a month without a dr subscription.

2 months later
17
#15811 3 years ago

Anticipated Feb update - “ pinball is really easy”

Anticipated Mar update - “ pinball is kind of easy”

Anticipated Apr update - “ pinball is a little bit complex, but it feels so easy”

Anticipated May update - “ pinball is complex but we make it feel so good”

Anticipated June update - “ building pinball is for the birds, wouldn’t you prefer a video game instead”?

Anticipated July update - “ your pinball machine is delayed. It is being held hostage by part suppliers, acting like pirates”!

Anticipated Aug update - “ Ahoy Mate, you like pirates?”

Anticipated Sep update - “ pinball sux. We wanted to build you a game and you wanted the game, but pirates boarded our vessel and now we sell rum. Sign this contract and we will build you some rum. Drinking rum is easy and it feels warm when swallowed. “

Anticipated Oct update - “ we are now taking orders for rum”

3 months later
#18246 2 years ago

In one week we will get an update from Robert. I am 99.9% sure what he will say ...

Forecasted May 15 Update - DR is still delayed on UL and has been slowly receiving ordered parts. 90% of parts to build the pins are received. No new forecast of completion but a promise to provide an update in six weeks. Now June’s update will be interesting. I believe it will signal what happens next.

Forecasted June 30 Update - announce 1) production will start August 15 (six weeks) or 2) state it is unknown when production will start. Option 2) signals Robert will be gone from this project and all employees sent packing. Option 1) is to promise a start by August 15 and if that date is missed, Robert will be gone. Maybe they will pull this out, but outlook is shaky.

In the meantime ... Spooky will be shipping their next title and Stern will have shipped Mandalorian LE’s.

2 months later
#20488 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

My guess is Robert continues DR as a "think tank"... Basically a way to keep his geezer crew on the clock (especially golden boy John who hasn't quite reached early SS age yet)
He may even pull a John and offer this crack team of has-beens "for free" to any company that fulfills the RAZA obligations.
On the plus side he will probably refund deposits to the new money buyers. As for the old, tough luck.

I guarantee you that any buyer would be responsible in writing for the feeding, care and vet appointment transportation of one JPOP.

#20489 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Eh. They didn't take in that much money with the preorders. Most people only put in $500-$1,000, and a lot of people had "store credit" as part of the Zidware settlement. Like they probably spend as much on one or two months of rent as what they pulled in with new pre-order money.
The preorder thing was always a red flag. They said they wouldn't do it for years, in retrospect they didn't even raise that much, and they didn't have enough faith in their own game to go ahead and order enough parts to get some units into arcades and dealer showrooms.

The preorders was a very odd move. Maybe they took in $200k, but now they have 100 people very interested in getting their games in a timely manner. $200k is 1% of $20M spent and less if $30M has been spent to date.

Stories of Deeproot not paying suppliers and employees indicate they are conserving cash, right? If they were going to use preorder money to pay everyone what they are owed, they’d need more than $200k raised. Often the amount requested for preorder ends up being used specifically to buy the parts needed. I don’t think $1k is enough to buy all the parts needed for one game. So it wouldn’t have been expected to buy parts.

Alright time for broadway-ument. In the Producers, the conmen who collected money to produce their show, had no intention of putting on a good one, in fact they wanted it to fail so they could keep any unspent money. Did Robert start Deeproot with the intent of collecting/spending $20M in order to sell company for $25M before “producing” a single pin? If he did, he’s a moron.

#20508 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Anyone else find it odd that Iceman is such a regular on this thread, does parking lot recon, and talks a lot about being a lawyer and Robert being a dumbass, yet he hasn't responded to multiple requests to pull the court cases for the active suit alleging DR isn't paying a contractor?

I want some parking lot pics, not just a static number. Give us the google shot referenced earlier, but every Friday. Some pics of the underground tunnels would be choice, too. I wanna know when the pins arrive from Mexico.

#20942 2 years ago

One of the reasons some have strongly suggested getting the refund choice is so you don’t lose your money when Deeproot goes bankrupt. Remember when Heighway went bust? There were few assets of value and a long list of creditors. In Deeproot’s case, they likely have a number of suppliers and artists owed money too. M

As said earlier, I believe Robert could get the games built if he wanted, but it would be super expensive. Then when he is finished with the run, he needs another two or three games designed 100%, tested and ready to be built. The possibility of that being true is -100%. (guaranteed to not happen). This is the real proof Robert won’t build any RAZA’s.

#20960 2 years ago

Hey Vinny (Counselor Blueberry),

I got a beautiful, red velvet crush jacket that I will dye blue for your big day in court. Don’t forget to ask RM to take a look at his files (that’s called discovery). Who knows what you’ll discover, I am guessing not much.

#21040 2 years ago
D863E7AE-65F6-4183-95A6-E073E8A54E89.gifD863E7AE-65F6-4183-95A6-E073E8A54E89.gif
#21069 2 years ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

So true lol
I think it would've worked until "Dat Snatch" joined in

King Keef is Rockin’ it with lil’ nitwit and sno’cone. Funny skit. Stay away from pregnasty. All are scary for real.

#21074 2 years ago

Fictitious job interview-

Ex-Deeproot Studio Artist: I used many cutting edge techniques and created some sexy graphics that could melt any cold-hearted, bastard’s heart, for a pinball company.

HR: A pinball company, you say. What is it called, maybe I’ve seen your pinball machine?

Ex-DR Studio Artist: It is called Deeproot and well, it is more of a concept. It’s an idea that there should be a pinball company like Deeproot in the world, but it is not really one. It’s president needed another $20M to actually build games and to grease the skids. Everything about the company looked ok from my perspective, until they quit paying me. Not just me, everybody and noone works for free. So I quit to find a real job, and that is what brings me here today.

HR: What’s the name of the sorry-assed president?

Ex-DR Studio Artist: It was more like a brain trust than a single man. We referred to the life force as - RM‘JPOP.

HR: It sounds awful.

Ex-DR Studio Artist: It was. RM built walls to keep anyone from coming and going and then served as The Gatekeeper. JPOP was toxic and he poisoned everything he touched and everyone within the company walls. Staff were doomed from the start, they just didn’t know it. It reminds me of the victims in Halloween or Friday 13th episode. You know a gruesome end is coming for each, but you can’t turn away nor couldn’t watch it soon enough.

HR: Were there any victims?

Ex-DR Studio Artist: It was a design house / virtual pinball manufacturing concept with a big legal department, so probably less than 200 people were screwed, in the end.

#21090 2 years ago
760E6512-65C7-4799-8AE1-830F04F403DA.gif760E6512-65C7-4799-8AE1-830F04F403DA.gif
#21095 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Probably legal in Texas.

If your corporate attorney is a cat-faced, zoom lawyer, it’s ok.

#21126 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

...
This is such a weird situation. Something doesn’t add up…

21,125 posts in and we all are still wondering.

#21138 2 years ago

We are all wondering .... where’s the Pinbar?

#21268 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Thank you Blueberryjohnson.
I found the Tom Cruise/Minority Report quote and as I had wondered, my memory did play a slight trick on me but not by much. And it was from three years ago so once you hear it I think you'll understand.
https://soundcloud.com/user-465086826/episode-55
Fast forward to the 53:00 minute mark.
Its at the very end of the interview with Robert which is immediately followed by Tony and Dennis giving their thoughts and analysis of the entire interview.

OMG! Everybody owes to themselves to listen to this from 14:00-19:10. In 5 minutes, Robert gives Stern some free manufacturing advice So many trade secrets and patents. RM reminds me of Russel Crowe in Beautiful Mind. He’s probably writing numbers and equations with wax pens on a clear board or window near you. I haven’t laughed out this loudly in a long while.

#21275 2 years ago

But hardly any content is available. I think it might have already been scrubbed a bit.

Edit - I see most info is still available but it falls under the about screen.

#21326 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

[quoted image]

No that’s just JPOP’s trash can

#21335 2 years ago

Robert was packing up his office earlier this week and left behind his greatest high school award.

DEF91948-2306-40E2-B745-2F63BD0B1105.jpegDEF91948-2306-40E2-B745-2F63BD0B1105.jpeg
#21341 2 years ago

This slide indicate RAZA buyers accepting the deal will be paid back their funds while they continue to wait for their game to be built, should the 2019 delivery date be missed? Did this occur, because automatic refunds sound non-negotiable and wonderful. Or did this morph into the first refund offer only? Did anyone get their money back?

54797126-1D50-4C3B-95C6-BA403E603CC6.jpeg54797126-1D50-4C3B-95C6-BA403E603CC6.jpeg

#21430 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

At this point, I'm feeling like we won't be hearing from him about any of this for quite a while, if ever at all.

except Robert never had his final say, aka opportunity to present his pinball manifesto. If the plug has been pulled, we should be hearing something soon from the employees. They’d be actively looking for jobs and willing to “spill the beans”. Expecting a statement from Robert or Deeproot in the near term, maybe it took all this to get an update. After providing that bit of entertainment, expect all Deeproot communication channels to go dark.

#21445 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Anybody else hear the rumor that 30 of the PATHETICALLY EMBARRASSINGLY LOW 122 sales was Robert buying his own games?
Guess just to get it over 100 huh? What a LOSER.

Worse than selling and taking deposits on 92 pinball machines that Robert had no clue how to build? Sad that 0 (zero) pinball machines were built and delivered. And the money just collected is undoubtedly spent with nothing to show. All of that qualifies Robert as a LOSER. Few companies survive an assault from a scorned investor, much less those from many of their customers - all the while Deeproot is solely to blame for their woes.

#21535 2 years ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

I'm just saying I bet he has a large stash from this whole ordeal. Probably hidden deep in the roots.

probably gold-lined tunnels leading to Mexico.

#21570 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

We can always follow Robert to his next endeavor.
He'll be entertaining with or without pinball.

39975E24-819A-48E6-90CC-4CCD4D7ECACF.jpeg39975E24-819A-48E6-90CC-4CCD4D7ECACF.jpeg
#21853 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Imagine if that $30m or whatever was split up and invested …

pffft your $30M reference is so yesterday, $44M is the number to use now when discussing how much money has been blown. The better estimate is based on $41.5M in 575 funds, $2.23M in PPP loans and $0.27M (est) in deposits.

A better use of the money would have been ... send $5k each to 2,000 active Pinsiders = $10M, $3M each to favorite charities = $9M, $500k bonus to each four Deeproot designers = $2M, bonus to self = $2M, return deposits = $270k, misc expenses = $730k and balance to investors = $20M, admitting defeat. Wouldn’t the investors prefer receiving 45 cents on the dollar at the beginning of this adventure and being able to move on?

Let’s face it, anything you can think of is a better outcome than what’s unfolding now. The curtain has been pulled back and ..... It’s like Geraldo Rivera hosting a primetime show exploring Al Capone’s vault and expectations were off the chain. Once the door lock was blown, the safe was opened and nothing was discovered. I repeat, they found nothing.

#21871 2 years ago
Quoted from Mogg:

I hope we can at least get a coffee table book by Blueberryjohnson and Ben heck so we can keep track of all the work you both have done in this thread. All the research, quotes, pictures of bad ideas..I would buy that book. Gary stern Would also love a copy.

I’d listen on an audio book. Maybe some podcaster can read it aloud.

#21899 2 years ago
AD3496D5-08A5-4815-AEE0-3DCF5D6E1DD1.jpegAD3496D5-08A5-4815-AEE0-3DCF5D6E1DD1.jpeg
#21936 2 years ago

Max wishes all you fine folks a good meow. Knowing JPOP is toxic and Robert Mueller as a fountain of delusion, He says FU deeproot!

9772248D-2DDD-4214-BF4A-A4925C16DC92.jpeg9772248D-2DDD-4214-BF4A-A4925C16DC92.jpeg

#21946 2 years ago

Screenshot from link above for those that didn’t click it. We haven’t heard how this has played out but deeproot’s actions fit those of a company in the throws of a legal battle over whether it disclosed how it was spending its money.

28409EEB-F6F0-4BA4-9FE7-A5FD23A74600.jpeg28409EEB-F6F0-4BA4-9FE7-A5FD23A74600.jpeg

#21950 2 years ago

The referenced 7% sales fee, when applied to the $41.5M of funds sold is nearly $3M. So Robert received an early payout, before events occurred. deeproot may have finally gone tits up. Investors lost everything. RAZA customers lost their downpayments. But Robert Mueller should be fine with his nest egg. JPOP is also fine, receiving 3 years of salary for noodling.

#21959 2 years ago

Is it common to fish for Clients to build a case (possibly criminal one too??) against a going concern using public media? As a legal practice that sounds sus. It wreaks of something that would automatically trigger a defamatory suit by the target party. At least this was on the mark by focusing on shady practices, something that should be easy to prove.

But it served to spotlight Robert’s Folly : Handing $44M to a Megalomaniac

10
#21965 2 years ago

Whenever I read to her about Robert or JPOP, she finds the tales fishy. Babydoll says deeproot is fubar.

84A43558-EA61-4143-941D-DE03C547FFD8.jpeg84A43558-EA61-4143-941D-DE03C547FFD8.jpeg
#21995 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:I told Buddy this was Deeproot carpet.
[quoted image]

I told my brother inlaw the same thing.

FB472C36-076B-462C-B68E-BD8F1E9EE0A6.gifFB472C36-076B-462C-B68E-BD8F1E9EE0A6.gif
#21996 2 years ago

Word starting getting around.

465071F1-BD5E-4863-8E3C-4DD3FE1BFC6A.gif465071F1-BD5E-4863-8E3C-4DD3FE1BFC6A.gif
#21999 2 years ago
B3D46C18-A4F3-4A9F-8762-6B1C8340929F.gifB3D46C18-A4F3-4A9F-8762-6B1C8340929F.gif
#22137 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Can you tell how many were bought by Robert or other company employees?
How many unique buyers were there? (Since some bought a few)

^^. We gotta know Cary, don’t hold out on us. This summary info shouldn’t pose any concerns, right? How many vacant ones are there? Then maybe we could take a mental leap and align it with “games” Robert may have bought. Also look and see if a courtesy game is assigned to be delivered to Vinny, aka mr_blueberry.

#22173 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

L) They (RM) never really planned to build games in the first place.

Agreed add L to the list. For RM to hark on manufacturing so much from the beginning and then take 0 effort to setting up anything, I don’t think he ever intended to build them. Also he would have hired a heavyweight procurement / supply chain specialist to standup a system and order parts for the first run. Lack of any evidence of this or of a position being filled and RM’s lack of action supports this theory.

BTW dr is intended to be an assembly operation, not a manufacturer. They wouldn’t manufacture anything, rather they would purchase parts and components and then they would assemble, test and package games. Stern, CGC, Spooky, American Pinball and JJP are true manufacturers as they produce various components of a final build.

#22195 2 years ago

Don’t forget wiring harnesses - Stern cornered the market on building a unique harness for every title rather than a universal design lol. Maybe that is considered an assembled product. Stern probably makes some ramps, metal guide and their own plastics? Plus they “make” their own major assemblies.

#22252 2 years ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

Red Flags for me was releasing to everyone all the titles of your games for the next 3 years. Who does that?

Listing the titles was the easy part. Maybe deeproot should have said,” we could make more games this year than any manufacturer ever has, but instead we choose to give you nothing.

#22277 2 years ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

And if the answer is yes, and they take a deposit then (at this point if they know they can't produce the game) it becomes criminal.

That reminds me of a story involving Dutch Pinball. There was plenty of doubt swirling about whether TBL would be produced. One customer was traveling nearby for work and he started texting Barry and Jaap that he wanted a factory visit since they were in production. He kept just missing meeting up with them before the plans would be changed. He’d had enough and decided to show up unannounced at the factory and go inside, since the google address was published.

So he did, and the staff had never heard of DP nor TBL pinball. The next conversation with DP was interesting and the Pinsider (wish I could remember whom it was) still wanted to physically meet these guys. In subsequent attempts he’d ask to meet and was being ghosted. So he began contacting Barry or Jaap posing as a new customer with cash. He soon found that his texts were getting responses and there was a desire by DP to accept the money and a willingness to meetup.

The jig was up when he confronted DP and explained whom he was and asking them why nothing was happening at their factory. He never did meet them but the curtain had been pulled back and that was but one of the red flags for their customers. That didn’t kill DP and they continue to limp along today and with most of the EA’s still owed a game. But if you deal with people that willingly cut corners, skirt the law, ripoff customers and lie about it the whole time, chances are high that you will become a victim of the con.

#22289 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

At this point, deeproot could be happy to end up with as few raza obligations as possible so they can get to surefire smash hits Food Truck and Title TBD sooner.

Heck yeah, gimme food truck! Where do I send my money?

#22320 2 years ago

We shall find out soon whether any of the themes available now and in the immediate pipeline will translate into a great pinball machine. Let’s see which nib would I buy .... Stern’s: DP, EHOH, STh, JP, AIQ or Mando or upcoming Godzilla or BTTF? JJP’s GNR or upcoming Toy Story? Spooky’s R&M or upcoming H / U? or CGC’s MMr or upcoming CCr or Pulp Fiction? or deeproot’s RAZA (pretend it had been made)? Answer - any of those before RAZA. RAZA is not a great theme, nor does it have a built-in fan base. RAZA won’t be made and had it been, it wouldn’t sell. It didn’t sell for Deeproot either. I don’t like any of deeproot’s other 21 announced themes. Today’s #1 rule for making bank as a pinball manufacturer is to only go for licensed properties, PERIOD !!

#22466 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

"This guy has been divorced four times but I'll be the woman to change him!"

remember that is now just called being iced !! Fourth time you are screwed by the same scam and you’ve been iced. If ANYONE is considering joining forces with JPOP now and want to resurrect the ashes, don’t be surprised when you become the 5th generation of being f*@ked by JPOP. I nominate we call that being “black-widowed”. Or we could say you’ve been auto-tko’d, JPOP’d or Octo-CONned.

#22470 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Actually the next time would be the seventh time.
He was at Bally in the 80s and let go, he joined Williams in the 90s and was let go, he started Zidware in 00s and failed, Pintasia did what they could, AP did what they could and fired him, deeproot did...something.

I consider AP to be two instances. Therefore the next time will really be Octo-Amazeba!!s.

The way I count 2 is first JPOP got AP to build MG games under guise of him using his own subcontractors. The games didn’t work and nobody wanted credit for building them. The second time JPOP was hired by AP who was going to produce JPOP’s version of Houdini. AP got smart and cut John loose.

So there you have it, 7 down and next time is 8.

#22513 2 years ago
6B1EE9A4-7450-41C6-866D-34E0D2C4BC9A.jpeg6B1EE9A4-7450-41C6-866D-34E0D2C4BC9A.jpeg
#22644 2 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

What I am posting is still not saying who the new groups are, what their plans are later this year or into 2022. They WILL actually produce games, more than the 2 prototypes that Deeproot has shown over the years.
Deeproot has not shown any production info. That is all anyone knows here. So we continue to try & guess what is (or not) being done there.
There is lots of room for more players in the pinball market if they know what is involved around the world. But you got to have a well thought out business plan. Start of small & slowly work your way up. Not come out guns drawn & say you are going to dominate the pinball world production yourself.
Here is a early 2016 picture from the camera I still use. Even a 1 person operation (myself) over 5 years with the help of contractors got hundreds of playfields & backglass done.
[quoted image]

I know you are enthused about the possibilities, but you are off the mark because Deeproot is dead. For anyone to make RAZA, they would first need to buy the rights. Do you think Robert would sell those along with any necessary patents and trade secrets to allow someone else to make his beloved game? The game he staked his company’s future on and which he was going to whip out with octo manufacturing? RM would prefer taking that with him to the grave. He would never allow it nor would he oversee a firesale of his “valuable” $44M worth of content.

Hell, RM may not even have all the rights needed to produce RAZA. Does deeproot have a production ready version of RAZA 100% built? The odds of a company buying the rights, making 100 pins and selling them at $10k a pop to new buyers is less than deeproot’s 0% chance of making any. Even if a company could physically assemble games, that won’t be legal without those rights. Wouldn’t RM find a way to sue such a company? A new company trying to make RAZA wouldn’t be able to make any use of software to date and likely need to start over from scratch. Any new company attempting such a maneuver would by definition have to be considered crazier than RM. Where would the new company find any customers?

#22647 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

...Where would the new company find any customers?

26801CEE-536B-4832-BB7D-0D63D4807AC8.jpeg26801CEE-536B-4832-BB7D-0D63D4807AC8.jpeg
#22682 2 years ago
0D58ED7E-5786-45AD-99E1-7CC4292649C9.jpeg0D58ED7E-5786-45AD-99E1-7CC4292649C9.jpeg
#22717 2 years ago

One of the oddest moment in the entire Zidware saga was at Expo when JPOP brought the empty cabinet and the RAZA artwork had switched from mad scientists in a lab to the current rendition without mentioning or addressing why. I mean all of the sudden we have aliens, witches, vampires and prostitutes and it doesn’t occur to John he needs to address this development? This all preceded JPOP’s announcement months later that he wouldn’t be building your pins.

#22773 2 years ago

how do I get in on this action? When there’s a chance something won’t be made or the op might go out of biz first, I like to send cash for everything in full. Since I might be getting the floor model, you might as well, rip up the warranty and sell it as is and without any guarantees.

#22853 2 years ago

Wow and I thought $44M was bad. It now appears $60M is gone, once you count in $2M of PPP loans. Universal Truth - Rich people don’t like it when a fund manager loses their money.

13
#22857 2 years ago

^^ Post of the century !! Damn, you found the smoking gun on the day filed by the SEC too. You Sir, are the Master.

40. This was not the only time Mueller cited to Policy Services in the 2019 versions of the PPMs for both Funds in an effort to convince investors that their assets would be safe in his care. In describing some of the risk factors associated with investing in life insurance policies, Mueller claimed that his use of Policy Services mitigated some of this risk: “[B]y using our ultimate parent company, [Policy Services], as our sole affiliated policy administration provider between us and the insurance carrier, we are unable to ‘raid the piggy bank’.” (emphasis added). Thus, Mueller falsely informed investors and prospective investors that deeproot and Policy Services were structured to minimize the opportunity for very kind of fraud that was actually then occurring.

#23210 2 years ago

Good draft effort but you must add Kevin Kulek aka PinCONning Pirate, to your most unwanted poster.

#23220 2 years ago

Ok we absolutely must create a script for a tv movie entitled - Robert’s Ruse. There is already an abundance of source material, but throw in SEC trial transcripts, sex it up a bit and send extravagant jewelry (in evidence room) to juror pool. I guess I’d really prefer a mock trial with Counselor Blueberry serving as head prosecutor. He will need to be on his toes against Defender Iceman. A man who would grudgingly waive his fees in exchange for the sample RAZA (in evidence room). Ben Heck will be played by a Wisconsin Honey Badger, as they don’t care and neither does he. Casting is open for lead roles of RM and JPOP. Send in video of why you would make for a good Robert Mueller or JPOP.

#23355 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

If he did a design for a reputable company I would (aka Spooky). But this would never happen because he’s poison at this point. Also I like to see him walk away for good because I want my 90’s JPOP pins to keep increasing in value due to the fact they are the last he will ever do and tied to the craziest pinball designer of all time

which is all the more reason for CGC to revisit the JPOP years. TOMr, TOTANr and CVr should be released immediately after CCr. Unfortunately TOMr is the only one of those three titles confirmed to be coming by Planetary. The other two are assumed will occur.

#23361 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

$58 million worth?

more like $60M worth counting PPP loans.

11
#23547 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

...
I have a feeling 80% of the 58m has totally evaporated.

SEC says it is all gone. I think we’ve uncovered Robert’s special skill - spending other people’s money. The SEC’s primary case is based on banking records, as Robert kept no documentation. The case identifies deeproot’s lack of company records and documents as a red flag.
E2FE31AA-4A77-4B56-8DD3-851567CA8AC5.jpegE2FE31AA-4A77-4B56-8DD3-851567CA8AC5.jpeg

#23560 2 years ago
Quoted from okgrak:

Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if RM (and wives and trustees) have multiple credits cards out in the name of the entities with outstanding debt on them and no cash left on hand. Also wouldn't be surprised if there are other debtors to his entities and outstanding obligation to various government agencies. The SEC accusations are probably the tip of the iceberg.

It looks like the SEC is trying to claw back -> $1.6M RM salary + $1.5M personal expenses paid + $350k condo. Then there are civil penalties owed that has not been defined yet but my guesstimate of that might be $1.05M. That’s $4.5M owed and chances are slim that Robert has enough personal assets to repay most of this judgement.

What is not being requested yet is to pay furloughed employees their wages owed, associated benefits and taxes with penalties. Texas Revenue, Utah Revenue and Federal government are owed taxes on these unpaid wages as well as whatever amount wasn’t deposited on wages declared over the years. Assume Deeproot owed all employees 2 months salary and if they were paying $500k salaries per month, that’s $1M. Penalties are steep and might add another $300k for a total of $1.3M. There are no funds in bank account to pay this.

#23575 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

This! RM is just another greedy financial loser that is so self-centered he doesn't give a shit about anyone else.

He’s a megalomaniac

#23682 2 years ago

Robert should have stuck with what he knows best and focused his investment strategy on coal mines in Africa.

5F52FCB0-ED89-4D67-89B6-ED309D5F7004.jpeg5F52FCB0-ED89-4D67-89B6-ED309D5F7004.jpeg
#23686 2 years ago
Quoted from DudeRegular:

I was gonna make a semi snarky comment about the lack of timely relevance of an Austin Powers meme, but.....
Those movies came out more recently than a decent JPOP game....

Shoot, that was at least a couple of wives ago for RM. Speaking of our better halves, if the court cases last more than a few years, we could be meeting RM’s wives #4, 5 and 6. Of course, there will be divorces to wives #3, 4 and 5 to consider. With everybody getting jewelry as their prize or parting gift, Tiffany’s in NYC is going to be busy. Maybe Robert should have invested in African blood-diamond mines.

#23812 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

was his goal to just buy everything? hey robert berk, sell me chicago expo because i love pinball.

So RM tried buying Spooky Pinball, JJP, American Pinball (maybe), Pinball Life and more. Could he have wanted to buy Chicago Expo too, probably why not? The fact that he was unsuccessful in each indicates he was not offering market value. When you offer something of little value for something with actual value, it shouldn’t be surprising the deals don’t work. I imagine Robert opened his meetings with, “give me your company and I’ll give you a box of freshly peeled banana wrappers.” Owner of Company to assistant, “who put this meeting on my schedule?”

649980B9-9844-4687-B79D-64F0D67A8490.jpeg649980B9-9844-4687-B79D-64F0D67A8490.jpeg
#23822 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

And now, you can own it yourself
[quoted image]
This one too
[quoted image]

Pinball is Easy ... is the one I want. Is it available?

#23840 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

If JPop is allowed to make the prisoner uniform, Robert would be free forever
[quoted image]

Excellent but needs the Deeproot logo on the purple jumpsuit to meet the new trademark request. Robert also offers a version where it says “... every prisoner needs a deeproot, every deeproot needs a prisoner.” tm. Someone needs to create a deeproot storefront selling these plus t-shirts with zany quotes from Robert Mueller. Might as well bring in some dollars, honestly. $5 of every purchase goes into the deeprootedandalligotwasthislousytshirt_575 fund. All proceeds go to buying t-shirts for victims of any deeproot fund.

#23852 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Absolutely. It's the artwork that sold me on MG, and so typical that Jpop faked it as his. Even his letters had doodles that weren't drawn by him, and not only did he not include attributions to the actual artist(s), but he signed it himself! Behaviour of a serial liar and con artist, I guess. And of course plagiarist, which also applies to many of his mechanistic 'inventions', which he just ripped off previous machines.

“JPOP is the Milli Vanilli of Pinball Designers.” - Python Angelo. ok, so Python didn’t really say that, but it would have been better if he did.

#24181 2 years ago

Balls Deep in a Lifetime if deeprooting

#24388 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

And how does one pay said Super Lawyer? With the very same money you claim to have not stolen?
Or was it cleaned in the Car Wash?

too funny, but yeah it’s true. Same thing if you were defending a drug dealer and payment is always covered in blood (figuratively).

7DE5B034-37FD-4E26-AA12-A96D70757D56.jpeg7DE5B034-37FD-4E26-AA12-A96D70757D56.jpeg
#24510 2 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes JPOP can still be managed ...

Stopped reading after this part ... JPOP cannot be managed. But step back a few feet and ask yourself why all this emphasis on managing this man? He doesn’t do any of the work. There is zero benefit to having JPOP at your company, and it will result in your company going out of business and being investigated by the SEC. Also ask yourself why save the RAZA design? What’s the benefit of playing that game? From what I have seen on video, gameplay was lackluster. Others have commented it is worse in person. This whole mess is a glowing pile of radioactive shit and it should have a 1000 foot blast radius on Pinside. Run greatwich Run.

#24514 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

This is what JPOP is like working at any pinball company. Does he do his job? Sort of, but he's REALLY bad at it:

OMG that was too funny, and a little eerie.

#24796 2 years ago
77C06D3E-C9C8-44A7-8351-953ECBD5D91E.jpeg77C06D3E-C9C8-44A7-8351-953ECBD5D91E.jpeg
#24809 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

So what happens to the people who relocated to Texas? Will they form TEXAS STAR PINBALL with a logo that also looks like a butt plug?

We know the butt plug logo is available, per recent trademark posts by Blueberry. Gen Z’r love butt plugs. It would make a bold statement. Greatwich might even decide to move South for that kind of once in a lifetime opportunity.

#24861 2 years ago

Thanks for reminding us about these two dr communications. I remember reading them and thinking at the time, well maybe Robert really does know manufacturing and he sounds intelligent. Now I know it was pure bullshit. Robert took that opportunity to use TWIP to spread lies and misinformation.

#24875 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Robert is a crazy litigious vindictive asshole. Remember when an employee came on here a few years ago and simply said they had quit? Robert said in an interview he was going after them for "breaking multiple covenants"
The real threat with human waste like Robert is it costs him very little to threaten you - and as a defendant the greatest danger is the cost of your defense. You don't have 58 million stolen dollars in your pocket like he does. This has already happened you just haven't heard about it.
That's why these games are toxic trash that Elon Musk needs to fly into the Sun.

Thinking about what type of people make for horrible bosses. If they —

* run a shady business that is prone to fielding customer inquiries and complaints.

* manage all incoming and control all outgoing comments.

* then stir the pot by making many outlandish public comments about how they are going to build what everybody wants and needs.

* has many outstanding business related lawsuits.

* has many lawsuits and counter lawsuits against own employees.

* are controlled at the top by a megalomaniac.

These would all be red flags and I know it would suck being an employee under such disfunctional conditions and horrible boss. However it could also have been pretty fun working there at times.

#24882 2 years ago
CE06786E-9B90-499E-B49B-554BDE1C2AF4 (resized).jpegCE06786E-9B90-499E-B49B-554BDE1C2AF4 (resized).jpeg
#25182 2 years ago
Quoted from Pickle:

Ha! It was amusing for sure.
Regardless of whether you were in or out on Deeproot I think most of us wanted them to get games out the door. Maybe a few people truly wanted them to fail. I have not looked at the report but from what others have shared it appears it only names RM for possible charges. Now I would suspect employees probably have been investigated/interviewed to determine if a anyone else knew or was involved in the fraud. This could be very important depending on what defense or deal RM tries to cut and drag others down with him. He could easily claim any number of things such as….Mr. X was the brains behind the whole thing. He assured me we could EASILY build games and put the money back before anyone knew it was gone. I was just a victim with the money to fund it. The money trail may lead to RM but a scheme of this scale probably had at least one other person with knowledge of where the money came from/ where it was going. Very few people in this situation will take the fall alone. I know most of us think how can anyone do this but imagine having a cookie jar with a million dollars in it….you think no one will miss $100. So you take it and nothing happens. So you do it again and again. Then you get greedy and you start taking $1000 at a time and still nothing happens. You get the idea. It’s hard to resist the temptation when it’s at your fingertips and you believe you can pay it back before anyone would know. Will be following to see if more details come out over time and how these allegations play out.

I’m not buying that Robert maybe started taking from the pickle jar and grew emboldened to empty it out. Because Robert planned from the beginning to be paid. Salary $1.6M and personal expenses of $1.4M means Robert was taking and spending $800k a year on his family, and that is $68k each month. Compare that with your own paycheck and you’ll see Robert lived a very extravagant lifestyle beginning in 2016 and while he was spending $60M of other people’s money. The missing funds didn’t creep up on Robert one day, the CON began BEFORE the first dollar was stolen and lasted until the last dollar was spent.

deeproot epitaph - We almost made more pinball machines in one year, than all the Other manufacturers combined.

#25201 2 years ago

In the center of Goonies was a coinpusher? Each game is guaranteed to include 1 million dollars of American cash IOU’s written on strips of green paper with date and amount of withdraw and scattered on the pusher . The customer is waiting for the moving arms to push a lucky slip into the payout chute. All IOU’s can be taken home and framed on the wall, because they are worth less than the 1 cent it cost to print.

When does Robert receive the Lifetime Achievement for World’s Greatest deeprooter?

#25211 2 years ago
Quoted from ElkoSteve:

I'll just leave this here
[quoted image]

Suddenly the opportunities look bright at deeproot funds. If Robert had spent $60M to get dr permitted and licensed and then he built an international pot growing/distribution operation, I’d be 100% in. As for investing in a pinball design and manufacturing company, it is a hard pass. No way, a dumb idea that nobody would choose and would ultimately have to be defrauded into “investing” into it, by a grandiose, delusional maniac.

77BC61DA-F83E-44B2-B87C-97CF5FFB16D5.jpeg77BC61DA-F83E-44B2-B87C-97CF5FFB16D5.jpeg
#25218 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

This was my understanding as well and is why I was surprised to hear that Yelobird (and others) were successful in disputing the charges that occurred (at least) 8-9 months ago.

No I think AXE always advertised 12 months from any purchase. They also will go beyond that if you have a fraud case like they’ve done in almost every scandal I can remember. This has included: Predator, TBL, Alien and RAZA. AXE might be the most amazing company I can think of that I’d be willing to do a paid testimonial for. Good company to hold a credit card account. Mine is going on year 36.

#25221 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

F off. Check your pm and call me. Keyboard coward
I actually work. Wtf do you do ?

on second thought, don’t give him a break, sheesh.

#25421 2 years ago

PIA makes me think - penguins in Antarctica.

#25604 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

These notes would have come due this year.
I'm wondering if DR didn't service all of the 5% debt because it simply couldn't afford to and these unpaid gains are what got the SEC on their trail.

The lack of additional funding alone would have sunk deeproot right about now. You can’t keep employees ($750k/mo) if you furlough and refuse to pay them. You can’t buy material or equipment to build RAZA’s if you don’t have money. You can’t pay rent ($750k annual lease for TX) with Monopoly money. In addition to the immediate problems caused by running out of money, there’s also an inability to pay interest to inverstors if there’s no money. This tends to piss off investors and may cause someone to file a fiduciary complaint. Also an investor reading about Robert and deeproot scam, may have become concerned about how they were making money and requested a due diligence investigation.

Well the SEC investigation stopped Deeproot dead in their tracks. When they discovered non-existent record keeping by deeproot’s fund advisor, they knew this was the big CON. From their records search the SEC was able to piece together a detailed analysis of Robert’s personal and company spending to prove FRAUD.

#25655 2 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

I used this template before, but I just couldn't help myself...
[quoted image]

Too funny Should be made a key post and required reading.

#25667 2 years ago

It might be kind of fun if Pinside added a grammar flag feature. Put the power in the hands of every poster. If you see something, say something. Then posts could have a corrections box to log all complaints and suggestions.

We already do that function informally when someone creates a new post to comment on grammar errors. This might make it painless for one to put comments into a special box. It could be kind of funny really. This idea probably won’t go anywhere.

#25712 2 years ago
Quoted from ultimategameroom:

Everything would have been great if it wasn’t for Robert.
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"6d765de699099031cabac7c9e7d39c740cc94439-1631292052-1800"};
//]]>

or RM just needed to be managed while he was managing JPOP

If day 1 you start an elaborate web of companies named deeproot and then begin funneling funds thru them for the purpose of stealing, you are going to end up in the middle of a flaming pile of dog shit as everybody claps. But we mourn the losses by 300 investors who were jacked.

#25740 2 years ago

Grammar is confusing especially the use of coincidence and irony. Coincidence is the happening of one or more events which produce results which were unexpected; irony refers to different singular events happening where the result is exactly opposite of what was expected literally. Coincidence and irony are perhaps two of the most easily confused abstract nouns in the English language because irony is tinged with coincidence and coincidence is tinged with irony!

Grammar also allows for confusion with irony and ironic. As adjectives the difference between irony and ironic is that irony is of or pertaining to the metal iron while ironic is characterized by or constituting (any kind of) irony. So what are some examples of irony?

A fire station burns down.
A marriage counselor files for divorce.
The police station gets robbed.
A post on Facebook complains about how useless Facebook is.
A traffic cop gets his license suspended because of unpaid parking tickets.
A pilot has a fear of heights.

There is much more that could be said of coincidence, irony and ironic but I rest the case for now.

#25812 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

Make sure to get a crap load of foam core too.

He’s probably outgrown his home and will be needing a 40k sq ft home/office space to be able to design like the pro’s.

#25827 2 years ago

Proposal comes with jewelry on the front end (engagement ring) and the back end (divorce celebration ring). What comes in between is a pinball CONman, rapscallion and stealer of old lady’s retirement funds.

#25916 2 years ago

Game packed inside pinpod was too heavy to move and probably required you remove the head before shipping. And then you’d ship the backbox in a seperate but patented pinpod called the pinhhead. It was another 2’ x 2’ pinpod but with special cushion and straps to hold a single backbox for shipping. The good news is by shipping two identical looking boxes, the weight limit for each is not exceeded and you only have to pay twice as much to ship 2 boxes.

But wait there is more. If you want the topper, that comes in another 2’ x 2’ box, much like the pinpod and pinhead. But this one is different and it is called pinhat. It come with extra special foam pad and rubber bands. So there you have it, deeproot’s preferred shipping method. Each game requires one pinpod, one pinhead and one pinhat. Estimated cost of boxes is $3k and shipping a complete game within US is anothet $2k. So for $5k you can get the fullest shipping experience and have truly good pinball times with a happy ending. Wouldn’t you agree this a small price to pay for piece of mind? Industry’s first $5k solution to the age old shipping problem.

#25922 2 years ago

I thought of a business venture Robert could have pursued repurposing pinpods as Pinheaven(tm). Pinheaven(tm) solves all your burial needs while serving as a vessel for your afterlife.

The Windup - Coffins cost $5k+ and are usually bought at the last minute.

The Pitch - Pinheaven(tm) can be purchased today for half the price of a coffin. It arrives packed flat and ready for storage. It only takes 2 minutes to snap together but it creates a 2’ x 2’ chariot for a lifetime. Can be used in every country except the Netherlands. One size fits all, or how should I say this? You can only fit a 2’ x 2’ person inside Pinheaven(tm), so for large beings, purchasing 2 units is recommended. Pinheaven(tm) creates the full burial experience for the price of a used Kia.

#25929 2 years ago

The I got high defense.

I was going to make old ladies rich, but then I got high.

I was going to challenge pinball order, but then I got high.

I was going to build them RAZA too, but then I got high.

Instead I’m counting days until I can smoke purple haze,

I’ve got 20 years to go until parole.
67DFA27E-5799-4EA0-8FAA-5F86F9351E7E.jpeg67DFA27E-5799-4EA0-8FAA-5F86F9351E7E.jpeg

#25933 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Defense? I mean it's a double fail - a failed pinball company funded fraudulently. Though I doubt the SEC cares about the second part.
In Robert's mind it's our fault, or his employees fault. Had he met his 2019 Deeproot Fun Days goal he'd have sold THOUSANDS of pins by now and put all the money back in the til before anyone asked questions.
That's the thing to remember - he really thought he was going to sell multiple thousands of unlicensed themed pins a year.

Of course that was a different time. Meaning in 2019 TNA sold 650 units and it is the most successful non-licensed pin since 2000. Move forward to 2021 and whether you could even sell a non-licensed pin comes up. Maybe you can make 500 sales if you have a top notch game, but sales will likely be lower. That is boutique manufacturers sandbox folks. To summarize in another way - a manufacturer needing to build one thousand or more of a title should not pick an unlicensed theme, because it won’t sell.

Robert’s main premises were faulty, thus dooming him from the start. His fraudulent behavior, ineptitude, inability to perform basic project management, lack of office accounting, product delays, lying and dried-up bank accounts have burned everything to the ground. As the final pyres are smoldering the SEC hits deeproot with their completed investigation alleging he’s a crook.

#25949 2 years ago

pinball scamming is hard. RM thought pinball scamming would be easy and that he could master the art.

#25951 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't think that's true. Pinside says 1,600 Dialed in games were made, also unlicensed. And Black Knight SOR had to do more than that. The more the market moves from operators to collectors, the more viable unlicensed games can be. I'm not saying they're going to outsell licensed games, but don't rewrite history w/ TNA. It was a coup that an indie game got mass produced but it was on the heels of some other unlicensed ideas.

I’ll admit DI sold more. I’d actually forgotten about it because it wasn’t a theme I was interested in (it was unlicensed!). Jury is out on BKSOR as I don’t know that Stern sold more than 650. In 2020 I heard Stern had only made 250 toppers. Maybe they did later runs before running out of parts. Any BKSOR topper talk?

#25966 2 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

I know the answer is still probably NO, but what if Robert had had less money to start with. $2M perhaps. Could that have possibly focused him enough into getting one machine done, not 10. No animation studio, no 5 designers, no 20 themes. Just put out a single pin. I realize management incompetence would have likely doomed anyway. But if he had only spent $2M at worst he has a failed pinball company rather than an SEC takedown. Sometimes too much money actually is a problem. Infinite resources (or seemingly so) means infinite time horizon, and no stimulus to just get something finished and to market. Spooky not only did it right, but one might argue that with some other more monied origins story they may not have succeeded as well as they did.

I agree that RM could have produced a working version starting with a $2M budget. Remember that Robert showed no ability to manage to a budget and every ability for overrunning costs. So what could have been done for $2M by a good project manager, would have taken RM $10M. So he would have needed to continue to ask for a few $M here and there. But since Robert was the lone person in charge of collecting investments and transferring funds among companies at will, he would have assuredly funded the overruns with investor $. Once a person inside the paywall is acting criminally, they need to be caught and stopped. The first $2M of hypothetical investment would have been illegal.

RM would still have zero manufacturing abilty nor experience. So dr would not have been able to build their own games. However, the real point is that RM built deeproot pinball atop a toxic JPOP and he undergirded it all with a criminal Ponzi scheme. An ensuing instigation, charges and the lack of funds in checking account would have sunk dr in the very same manner but with losing only $10M up to that point and in that case.

#26069 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

That was his plan, sell 10,000s of pins and pay back the fund...

I decided to work backwards from actuals to see what numbers RM needed. I believe $60M was spent including the PPP loans. I am going to assume that after direct costs, the margins per game were no more than $3k because there were many delays and hidden indirect costs. That means Robert needed to build and sell 20,000 games to break even.

Robert had 15-18 titles “in development”. Suppose 3 turned out great and the rest were average. So 15 ok games sell 500 units each and the 3 great designs sell 2000 units each. That ends up totaling $13.5k of the $20k needed. So if he achieved reasonable success he would still have fallen short of making the numbers work from strictly pinball. Other avenues of revenue were needed and sadly none are found.

Reflecting back on the series of events, RM first tried buying manufacturer, Spooky, and parts supplier Pinballlife. These two experienced companies already knew how to stock parts and build pins. This part of the plan was excellent, but when neither company was for sale, RM decided to change direction and have deeproot perform both functions themselves. That is where the wheels came off the bus. The third leg of the plan was to design pins with trade secrets and patents and to rigorously enforce them. This part of the original plan seems particularly ill conceived.

#26076 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Robert seems like a soft hands man who doesn't even change his own furnace filter... And then decides to build very complex machines.
Maybe he'll learn some skills building shanks and spikes in prison.

Haha he could apply for the shank sharpener position but he’s not qualified. Octo-sharpening might be the future.

21
#26131 2 years ago
Quoted from pudealee:

Pretty soon he'll be living in a van down by the river.

I could see him living in a pinpod down by the river.

#26140 2 years ago

The RAZA saga started so long ago I have forgotten much about it. But the origins were a game to be developed called BHZA. Funny from the beginning of it, JPOP insisted customers signed NDA’s. As that is Robert Mueller’s standard practice, I wonder how early into BHZA did JPOP meet RM.

6D9C0E91-8A84-48D2-A710-6488FF75E2F4.jpeg6D9C0E91-8A84-48D2-A710-6488FF75E2F4.jpegF2FD0542-48FB-4A99-B7A0-C94B20110691.jpegF2FD0542-48FB-4A99-B7A0-C94B20110691.jpeg

4409BF70-B7C7-4371-A1F8-88F697A41DD5.jpeg4409BF70-B7C7-4371-A1F8-88F697A41DD5.jpeg

C0CE024A-E0EA-49CF-8261-3B88ACB859B5.jpegC0CE024A-E0EA-49CF-8261-3B88ACB859B5.jpeg

#26191 2 years ago

Looked at from a higher plain, people select a financial advisors and put their trust in them to preserve and build their nest egg. Make no mistake, it is their one and only nest. The advisors buy funds from agents like RM, who are regulated with paperwork requirements out the gazoo. RM recklessly spends cash invested in dr funds and keeps no paper trail. What seized bank records do show is a spending pattern on unrelated expenses and illegal activities.

Seems pinball expenditures made $30M or half the $60M spent. While revenue from pinball investment was zero and the revenue from other half of assets was zero, also. But the investors and Uncle Sam provided 99.9% of funding and pinball the remaining crumbs. I can’t but discount everything written about the pinball saga as being petty. The investors are the ONLY ones who deserve attention paid and the sideshow of dr and RAZA should be told with a best selling book and hbo special movie with all proceeds given to the scammed.

#26213 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

One slap on the wrist, coming up!
Still cracks me up how people here keep fantasizing about hard time and prison rape. We all know this doofus is gonna skate!

When RM goes from 4 years of spending like a drunken sailor with a full treasure chest to having more bills than unfrozen assets, it has got to hurt. Heavy spending is often what keeps a failed marriage together. I expect wife three is looking for an off ramp coated in jewels and Robert likely prepaid that. Inevitable wife #4 is right around the corner so he should have prepaid those wedding jewelry too. Maybe Robert should have invested in the jeweler as one of the funds’ assets. I heard their business has been good for years.

#26233 2 years ago

When Robert revealed his target buyer was single mothers with spare cash I knew he didn’t want to build any pins and his mind was gone.

#26261 2 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Are there any rules against being a serial swear-based crusading down-voter? Asking for a friend.

a personal time out, maybe?

#26277 2 years ago

Fixed it for English Teachers everywhere: Infamous instead of famous

A8F5F28C-D6A4-4D59-B166-4296AB68AD41.jpegA8F5F28C-D6A4-4D59-B166-4296AB68AD41.jpeg

C52192C9-F4F8-4085-AC01-B7D522E50551.jpegC52192C9-F4F8-4085-AC01-B7D522E50551.jpeg

#26311 2 years ago
F1594223-2B1C-4D7E-A7B2-F7380ABF383A.jpegF1594223-2B1C-4D7E-A7B2-F7380ABF383A.jpeg
#26327 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Lots of 95 lb single moms in his wake with really out of proportion chests...

Insured jewelry in that zip code is off the charts.

1 week later
#26478 2 years ago

JPOP also represented himself as President of Zidware, per attached letter and story.
76DAA1F9-0634-4E22-9E0C-550455F0084D.jpeg76DAA1F9-0634-4E22-9E0C-550455F0084D.jpeg
C74675FA-D606-4372-AB58-D9DE0118DB21.jpegC74675FA-D606-4372-AB58-D9DE0118DB21.jpeg
210344EF-CFD0-4FF9-B4F3-B30C3E024BE6.jpeg210344EF-CFD0-4FF9-B4F3-B30C3E024BE6.jpeg
787F35A7-3270-4259-929C-3AA6B35395F8.jpeg787F35A7-3270-4259-929C-3AA6B35395F8.jpeg

#26490 2 years ago
Quoted from DoorCounty:

Agree - time to move on.
This thing is done, shows over….

No stone is left unturned, nothing left to be learned, no more wise-ass jokes to be made , except for …

What happens with 2 proto RAZA’s?

Will someone buy the ashes and try to resurrect RAZAr (a remake of a nonexistent game)?

What is Robert’s defense?

What’s the final ruling?

What happens to Robert?

Who is paying into JPOP’s 401k fund?

Who has some interesting employee stories?

#26498 2 years ago

Distractions abound and we’ve forgotten to ask ourselves one question, every day. Misdirection has distracted us into taking our eyes off the biggest treasure in pinball. Where is the pinbar? Is there a “working” prototype or two? Was there a gold plated version in Robert’s bathroom? Are there any production ready pinbars available anywhere in the world? I think the answers to all of these is no.

So it seems possessing one pinball lockdown bar to rule them all might give one feelings of grandeur, euphoria and even cause psychotic episodes. It was too much responsibility entrusting one individual with the #pinbar#myprecious. As the pinbar was abandoned, it was symbolically returned to Earth, where it will sit undiscovered for another 500 years.

Edit - By that time, mankind will be advanced enough to sit down and eat eggs and green ham before retiring to the crapper to create a personalized pinbar.

#26602 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

It would be the most deeproot thing for the pinbar to actually make it to market minus the pinball machine

Could you incorporate a sound mixer card? I’d like this to play a loop of Robert Mueller quotes from the 3 Kaneda interviews plus any others he may have given. Produce and sell 200 pinbars by Christmas and you’ve lapped deeproot’s accomplishments five fold.

#26649 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Ever wonder how Robert could so effortlessly pivot to discussions of gold mining in Africa?
Bobby's global investment roots run deep!
[quoted image]
I bet you Libya paid the extra thousand to have jpop assemble light propeller aircrafts in their living room.

Deeproot should sell their $300M stake in African ventures and pay everybody back.

#26679 2 years ago

Robert had too many employees at the studio but for some reason there wasn’t enough work in-house to keep them busy ??? In spite of having 26 pinball machines, video games and movies in development, Robert wanted his studio to solicit outside contract work to generate income. The deeproot pyramid scheme was circling the drain 30 months ago. Robert has been investigated and charged with investor fraud by the SEC and has been referred for criminal prosecution since then. How has deeproot continued for so long? As bad as the aforementioned activities were, it was the money which kept them going. The CON continued until money stopped flowing.
A204919F-EA06-45E3-87FC-82CE00234DA1.jpegA204919F-EA06-45E3-87FC-82CE00234DA1.jpeg

#26707 2 years ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

And here I was thinking it was Chaucer

Longfellow, I believe.

#26710 2 years ago

gotta pay me to play me

no dough is a no-go

no ruble buys no schtuble

no yuan said no one

no rials for real?

no pesos for queso

no barks for no marks

no lira to buy beer, eh

no rands, punch sand

#26778 2 years ago

How’s Robert’s car wash business going? Have they already laundered $60M? My how time flies.

#26783 2 years ago

Looks like an initial investment is cheaper than a CE or SLE. Surely maintenance is higher and the decommissioning costs are steep. I am thinking if one had access to diamonds that could pay all debts from cradle to grave. Would like to see a pic of RM with a pickaxe working in the diamond mines.

#26849 2 years ago

Questions for deeproot staff

In spring 2019 Robert missed payroll by a few days. 1) how many people were working in TX and in UT at that point in time? 2) How many people left deeproot between spring 2019 and Mar 2021? (I’m curious why 90% of staff didn’t leave within 60 days of first occurrence). 3) When did bulk of the UT staff get laid off?

#26858 2 years ago

Question regarding dysfunctional operations. Of the many subsidiaries, there were multiple product types and products identified for sale. Each product must have had a timeline for development with deadlines. So what happened in product meetings when something in a project was due?

#26861 2 years ago

One of the major surprises was that as much as Robert bragged about manufacturing, he had very little structure in place. The manufacturing wing of the building occupied a lot of space and it was sealed off. Did employees ever breach the door to learn there was nothing in there? That the manufacturing updates from Robert were a big steaming pile of crapola.

On a funnier note - if each employee could have five minutes alone in a room with Robert, what would they bring with them to the meeting?

1 week later
#27119 2 years ago

5 Day of Blueberries has a nice ring to it. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading every scrap of the employee’s stories and perspective.

#27189 2 years ago
AB35293A-C145-49C1-BC6F-64C254A70DA6.jpegAB35293A-C145-49C1-BC6F-64C254A70DA6.jpeg
1 week later
#27236 2 years ago

How would propose that version be abbreviated in the Pinside database? RAZAR (Redeux) or RAZA3 (3rd try) or RAZAr (remake) or RAZAv (vault), RAZAp (prison edition) or RAZAc (CON edition). If someone does buy the rights and tries to make the game, a naming contest would be a big hit.

#27256 2 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

I only use Amex!

Nigerian Prince Levi hangs up the phone.

#27294 2 years ago

Pretty much every deeproot trademark has expired and is available. Someone need the pinbar name for their improved pinbar3? If someone is building them then @greatwich knows them and together they will be making RAZA’s until the market weeps …. no mas, mamá lloró.

1 week later
#27314 2 years ago

A problem that needs fixing - when working under a playfield you cannot read the pinbar screen.

Short-term Solution - a pair of X-ray glasses will be included with each pinbar purchased.

Long-term solution - JPOP will lead the design team to move all info and functionality on the pinbar touchscreen and move it to an lcd screen in the backbox. Of course it needs to be rebranded and pinscreen seems the best name possible. Come to TPF 2025 for the five days of pinscreen.

#27367 2 years ago

Don’t they have to account for Deeproot Capital source in this bankruptcy? If they did, it would show $60M liability for investor money. Maybe listed under another name but you would have an incomplete pic if ignored. Irony - one time you’d want to show a gynormous loss and then don’t? RM is not on his A game lately.

#27446 2 years ago

The colored lenses I wear warn me away from any company or individual that are too litigious. Robert is a worthless troll that sues customers, employees, contractors, suppliers, vendors, parts manufacturers, other pinball manufacturers, podcasters, wives, in-laws, investors and soon the US government. To say RM can’t get along with anybody is an understatement. One day he may have the opportunity to see if he can get along with a cell mate. Something tells me that would be a match made in heaven.

Robert’s original contract requiring owners to not sue Zidware and accepting additional payment for for building MG’s told me and others everything we needed to know about Robert Mueller and Deeproot. And what it told me was to stay far away!

1 week later
#27609 2 years ago

I may have a bluegasm reading thru the new filings tonight.

1 month later
#28098 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Still. TNA was themed very well. More so than that infinitely higher budgeted Dialed In, which (while being a great game) had so many more marketing issues beyond Captain America in Mom Jean's.

Quoted from benheck:

I bet Spooky could move 300 "Vaulted" AMH's with new art easier than falling off a log.

TNA was great. Someone said earlier how stupid is was to create an original theme because of all the video content that needed to be created. Well, TNA solved that by not having a large lcd, and yet it sold. Or did it? 500 units sold was a great success as the goal was to make and sell a few hundred games and they blew past it. But most manufacturers are going to need to design something that sells 1k+ units. Could TNA have sold more than it did, probably not? I wish Spooky would add the ramp that an enthusiast created, add rule set for ramp, put it in a standard cab and change the artwork. Voila, Spooky has a true TNA2 and I’d buy one. They might be able to sell 500 of these too. A failure for some companies but a smashing success for Spooky. And once added to TNA sales would push TNA and TNA2 sales over 1k.

#28107 2 years ago

Is the guy still here who’s planning on selling spare pinbars, the best pinball collectible which deeproot never made? Others mentioned possibly modding it further to show content and it’d better if they did. Baby steps for now. Where’s my pinbar?

As to an upcoming auction at dr, will they uncover a hidden room with completed prototypes and 1000 sparkling pinbars? “The dust has cleared from the explosion and specialist are opening the vault doors. They are entering the vault now and it is a good time to remind listeners, all vault contents were prepurchased for $1M by a mystery buyer. What treasures will be uncovered at deeproot headquarters, given the $68M stolen and spent on pinball? Stay tuned …”

#28111 2 years ago
Quoted from Inside:

The pinball parts are probably hidden within the SCIF.
[quoted image]
(stock image of a sensitive compartmentalized information facility.)
Don't forget that 12621 has a SCIF? (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/12621-Silicon-Dr-San-Antonio-TX/4068789/)
[quoted image]

Me : Let’s load that door with explosives and blow it.
Landlord : SCIF was left unlocked and the door can easily be pulled opened.
Me : Blow the door!!

#28123 2 years ago

Vonnie D, Kevin Kulek, Andrew Highway, JPOP and Robert Mueller have left their marks on pinball and by that I mean their skid marks.

#28164 2 years ago

the intrigue of what may be discovered. Maybe a 10’ portrait of R.M. Esquire to hang over your fireplace?

1 week later
#28282 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I’m with you 100%. But lots of retro buyers love having collections of shit on shelves.

like this guy?

73A1CE79-DFD4-4FA2-B2CF-CF37F468AB1F.jpeg73A1CE79-DFD4-4FA2-B2CF-CF37F468AB1F.jpeg
1 week later
#28344 2 years ago

anybody else let down Zombie Adventures pinball wasn’t plugged in nor promised to be working? At least give the world one working game, for crying out loud.

#28349 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

The item in my photo is a Belovac Vacuum former. The CNC router (Apex Multicam) I was talking about is this one:
They never installed it from new. I wonder if the vendor was even paid...
[quoted image]

pics are great so far ….. but what about the vault room and infamous contents?

#28630 2 years ago

The pinball landscape is run amuck with infamous swindlers, CON men and charlatans. Should someone harness this group of miscreants under a jolly rogers flag and send them out on a book signing tour. Display them behind bars, where they belong and allow the public to throw trash at them for an hour or so.

1 week later
#29106 2 years ago

Just to clarify one point. Robert started with intent to steal and deceive investors. His split personality, Roberto, started with a dream of killing it in pinball. Deeproot shows signs of each from the start. Deeproot was set up with a Byzantine style of shell companies AND Robert never kept any records of expenditures (in spite of being in the highly regulated financial services and investment services fields). He knew before moving the first deposit under a shell, this was a bunch of bullsh*t. Secondly, when Robert dreamed of being a pinball star - he thought he was well on the way. Make no mistake, Robert was scamming from the start. Why didn’t he do all the normal stuff you’d think? Like false invoices and payments to offshore accounts etc? Well, Robert was a genius and he thought he knew a better way. Keep paying bills and don’t keep records. Buy a large amount of jewelry to keep the women happy, coming and going. Pay for tuition etc. Condo, oh yeah!

#29130 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Maybe they have the working RAZAs as payment?

With recent discoveries of no software in sample game, no servers or racks in auction and a backdoor deal by Turner Logic to get paid for their programming and website efforts, ahead of all other creditors … I am thinking that this group is planning to win the sample game without software for $20k and add their newly paid for software. Then who knows, but this sample game might be worth $60k in semi-working condition. I don’t even care what the Turner group is trying to do, only noticing that their actions are suspect and applauding their success in positioning for a payoff. I’ll bet the second missing sample game appears at Turner Logic Studio also, after auction closes.

#29186 2 years ago

Software programming, cloud services, data storage and snackdot deliveries - Turner Logic can do it all. I wonder if they offer coffee service, because where I work, people drink coffee all day. Also many of our European / Middle East / South American offices offer afternoon espresso. Our company thrives on coffee grounds. Kudos to Robert for starting out with a solid plan.

#29214 2 years ago

I can’t remember, but every time I read stalking horse agreement I go wtf. What is it again? And why would someone want to stalk horses?

#29251 2 years ago

I don’t know it’s not that bad of a business to be in as long as you don’t make it personal. For instance, what if some of the policies were on Robert or people he knew. That would be weird. But it is just a statistical investment with a defined end date and payoff. Life insurance seems best if buy a bundle of say 135 policies for $1M when they are worth $19M. These boys are in the big leagues and they know how to earn.

Quoted from iceman44:

Yeah you don’t pay premiums out of your own pocket to keep the insurance in place unless you KNOW there is a big payday potential. And they have done it without even owning the policies!
135 policies? I don’t know how you possibly value those if you aren’t privy to the health data and under the HIPPA laws you can’t get it now.
The longer the 135 people live means the longer you have to pay the premiums to keep the policies in force.
I mean it’s a terrible thing imo to want to invest in. You are basically hoping people die before their life expectancy so the policy is more profitable.
For buyers like Coventry I get it, it helps some people get cash out of their death benefit while living.
But this seems shaky as shit to me.
I might want to go check the 15 boxes myself just to see what’s up.
Maybe this is Bobby’s back door payday after he bankrupted and ripped off the company?

#29289 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Auction about half over (less than 6 days left) and the bids are very modest. I wonder if it will be a late flurry to take things in silly directions or if not much will come of it in the end. Right now, highest bid for anything is just over $5k for a forklift. One of handful of > $1k items is America's Most Haunted, and it's probably around half of what one would go for on pinside.
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/catalog/352536/mel-davis-auctions-232---deeproot/?ipp=100

AMH is the only pinball machine being sold from deeproot that works and imo, it is the only thing of value being offered. Plus if the software was scrubbed by TuYo, Buyer can download and restore it from publicly available code. This machine might bring in as much as $10k. But remember, it is one of the “best” things to buy. Anyone listening in on the trial, heard a lawyer explain to the judge the auction and Trojan horse are to raise money to pay back creditors. Creditors -$61M, auction brings in +$50k and Trojan deal yields another $1M (instead of $19M it is worth). Legal fees paid to all parties = $1M(?).

#29293 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Was it communicated that the Black Hole machine doesn't work?

No, but say the name of the game again. Was it the company motto?

#29298 2 years ago
Quoted from frobozz:

With the possible of greatwichjohn's mysterious friends, to whom would that IP possibly be an asset? Everyone else would consider it a Superfund site.

JPOP could be managed Everybody knows JPOP’s toxic. Everything he touches turns to toxic waste. Oh, we are taking about R Mueller? Everything he touches turns to toxic waste.

#29367 2 years ago

If I dug in deep and found $1.25M in my sofa cushions, I could ….

have become a relative at Pinball Brothers

start a company that builds classic Bally pinball machines

create a company that is a huge money suck and name it after what I like doing to people

buy group of 135 life insurance policies

buy Magic Girl playfields and take a dump

put money in backyard fire pit and set it on fire

#29371 2 years ago
Quoted from JStoltz:

The Mueller backdoor theory is definitely just irresponsible speculation, imo.
But the “Turner not being forthcoming about his knowledge of the life policies and using it to get an unfair advantage in the bankruptcy sell-off” theory is still very compelling and concerning.
Edit: trying to make sure I keep emphasizing “theory” and use the word “alleged” here.

In the end, the biggest thing for Robert (pun) is to minimize jail time and have a nest egg and warchest that includes lots of jewelry (wives 5 and 6 demand it). He could probably sell a screenplay or get a book deal for $1M, if he’s cagey enough.

#29468 2 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I have 4 cnc machining centers in my home shop. I have rotary phase converters, (15HP & 40HP) to provide the needed 3 phase.
[quoted image]

Holy Moley, that’s some serious firepower at home. What do you use equipment on?

#29643 2 years ago

wonder if winner of nicer RAZA is in talks with another party to gear up and produce them. allow insanity to run amuck and you have chaos.

#29718 2 years ago

Or you could write a book about it. Either way you’ll be doing a lot of research. Shouldn’t be too difficult to keep it interesting.

As Blueberry reminded us, the auction was to clear space for the next tenant. Other deeproot items were absent from this. Should be $250k of jewelry and a $500k condo in HI. A lot of women are going to be pissed when they learn they have to return the only thing of value from their relationship with Robert. Freedom was won by at least 3 contestants. Probably another wife or two hiding in the shadows, as the deeproot saga lasted a good three years.

#29756 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Robert is also quoted in an interview from years back that Turner Logic designed their financial systems.

Wasn’t Turner Logic the snack cake king of Dallas? They were supplying deeproot with all the snacks they could order and at all times of day.

#29780 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Some sort of magical "anti-muse" that sucks creativity from people...

Psych analysis incoming …;

JPOP is a black hole. A black hole is a cosmic body of extremely intense gravity from which even light cannot escape. Black holes usually cannot be observed directly, but they can be “observed” by the effects of their enormous gravitational fields on nearby matter

Robert Mueller is a megalomaniac. A megalomaniac is a pathological egotist, that is, someone with a psychological disorder with symptoms like delusions of grandeur and an obsession with power. We also use the word megalomaniac more informally for people who behave as if they're convinced of their absolute power and greatness. Your garden-variety egomaniac might be self-centered and overconfident but he's a little softy compared with the megalomaniac RM, who wants to control the world.

#29783 2 years ago

I always wondered about that option to have JPOP come to my house for 2 days and help me assemble my RAZA and paying $1k more than having a completed game shipped. I thought this was always going to ship as a complete game, unless you wanted to build a kit. It must have been the opportunity to meet and interact with a rogue designer that was appealing.

#29806 2 years ago

Did Turner Logic scrub the answering machine shitware?

#29813 2 years ago

Robert’s first line of defense.

250784C1-C64A-4F2F-99A1-24B213F89307.jpeg250784C1-C64A-4F2F-99A1-24B213F89307.jpeg

#29966 1 year ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

I dug back through the auction listings and FIRE & BRIMSTONE wasn't anywhere in there that I could find. I think that unmarked whitewood I posted above is a version of it. It was in JPOP & Barry's shared office.
https://mtdauctions.hibid.com/lot/114827806/three-office-desk-and-contents?ipp=100
[quoted image][quoted image]

That must have been the fire and brimstone or bible adventures mock-up.

If you wish to relive 30 min of Robert spouting off about pinball and deeproot blowing smoke at expo(?) give these a listen (think they are public). 21 pinball titles under development. Hundreds of nonexistent problems solved. Misdirection about sources of funding. Mind blown again! It is jarring to hear the story from 5 years ago.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-1/id1531580706?i=1000530164152

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-2/id1531580706?i=1000530260499

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-thoughts-by-deeproot-part-3/id1531580706?i=1000530994309

-1
#30050 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Kaneda. Give him a try if you havent and decide for yourself. The man does great interviews.
https://www.patreon.com/kanedapinball

That was one of my favorite episodes. Really cool to hear from a deeproot employee and Kman asked her enough questions and then let her talk. Worth trying a subscription for $5 a month and probably hearing a few more deeproot employee episodes? That’s an easy yes from me.

#30056 1 year ago
Quoted from twazu:

Does anyone know where this playfield ended up? It was in the lot I won, but was mysteriously missing when the lot was picked up.
[quoted image]

That’s BS - you win and the f’n shit ain’t there. That just sucks.

-1
#30063 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballsmith:

What do you mean by: "for $5 a month"?

You have to pay for a subscription and that is the amount each month. I was suggesting signing up for a month or two and then if you don’t like what you hear, cancel. And in either case, tells us what you think about the experience.

#30065 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballsmith:

For Kaneda's podcast?

Yes. He does a lot of other stories and hype so there is a variety of stuff. A lot of the complaining and begging for stars gets old, but amongst the remaining gunk is something for every taste. This got me thinking of a way to describe the listening experience as kind of psychedelic.

#30098 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Can you even call these whitewoods? Don’t whitewoods usually flip? Sorry, but regardless of the absolute disaster that is Blobby, I cant help but think that at some point the designers and engineers began to phone it in and just collect paychecks backed by old ladies retirement savings.
Unless someone wants to chime in with info about more complete games that are under wraps somewhere, that is.
I mean, there were 40-50 employees supposedly. What the heck did they do everyday?

You are not wrong. Many of the games were touted as being well past first whitewood stage. If there isn’t a hidden cache of “good stuff” revealed after more deeproot stuff comes up for sale, then it looks very poorly on the Designers. If something / “anything” of value shows up like a 2nd or 3rd level whitewood of some playfields with cool mechs, then the designers are redeemed for leading everybody on.

After Norman left he mentioned not having had a mechanical engineer available, in spite of having designed two titles. If any of his designs were considered to be among the first to be released, then the deeproot experiment is sus. Steal $60M and spend it as fast as possible in a money laundering operation that keeps the wives in an out of jewelry and which ends in a flaming pile of sh!+ streaking actress the Texas night sky that spells out - Robert Mueller Greatest Man in Pinball period

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 1.29
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 49.99
From: $ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
5,800
Machine - For Sale
Midlothian, TX
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
Sound/Speakers
From: $ 1.49
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 8.99
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
From: $ 17.99
276 posts in this topic match your search for posts by jeffspinballpalace. You are on page 1 of 2.

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider jeffspinballpalace.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tu=jeffspinballpalace and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.