(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

3 years ago

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  • 902 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 minutes ago by toyotaboy
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Topic index (key posts)

18 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (1 year ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (1 year ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (1 year ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (1 year ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (1 year ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (1 year ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#20 3 years ago
Quoted from pin2d:

October 21st, 2017
Robert Mueller and Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) speak for the first time. Jeremy verbally agrees to sign over the rights to the games in exchange for undisclosed consideration.

Good for ZY.

1 month later
#199 3 years ago

That's a shitload of overhead sitting around right there!

Nordman def raises the bar.

That one dude front and center looks like Trudeau.

#396 3 years ago

Isn't it kind of pathetic that DP is using the Jpop Houdini layout and re-theming it? What a F ing joke that is.

I'm sure Jpop the genius already has a few dozen other layouts in the pipeline. Use those.

Stick to trying to make MG, RAZA and AIW work first and let Nordman and Ousler do their thing.

1 week later
#454 3 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

True, but it appears deeproot has pretty deep pockets to pay all these people, without taking money from the community. That's also a step in the right direction.
I get all the anger, but really, what does anyone have to lose at this point? Why not give deeproot a chance and then get angry if they don't live up to their words. They have promised more than anyone up until this point (outside of Jpoops original promises).

I agree with this. Let’s see what happens

The blowback hatred is directed at Jpop and most Pinsiders can’t imagine why anybody would be so stupid to take him on

They are counting on a pinball world outside of the current base of players

I only had $4500 in on Raza and Aiw and I’m wondering what records Zidware has if any?

Either way, it’s something and at the very least Pinside loves some great drama

#540 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'm convinced more and more this guy is trying to build a company to be bought... more so than build a lasting pinball company.

I just put my claim in. Now i have to go back and search bank records because Jpop didn't keep any? Maybe in lieu of we can get an affidavit from John to DR? He loves me.

Building a company to be bought by whom?

Realistically they are going to have to knock out a few competitors with whatever advantages they think they have somehow. And it better come on pricing and increased quality. So much easier said than done.

The amount of overhead burn without revenue is crushing. You better sell a shit ton of pins to get any kind of ROI.

Pinball is never going to go back to mainstream arcade or HUO. Its just not.

Why did Bally/Williams drop out?

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens

#543 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Also, since this would obviously be a rubber mallet, what exactly would it prove re: the hardness of the clear or dimpling? Not really on the same level of index of hardness as a steel ball bearing.

He said a couple of times on the interview, no misunderstanding, "sledgehammer".

Either way, current pf's are fine.

#544 3 years ago

In a public SEC.gov Reg D filing, Deeproot pinball filed to attract "accredited investors", minimum amount of $25,000, up to a total of $6 million in securities issued.

Why not self fund instead of using OPM?

Consider me impressed with all the effort and money blown so far.

#546 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm just amazed that they probably think there are more than 100 people that will buy their pinball product.

When it comes out 18 months down the road after all the overhead burn? I will say JJP nearly went down the tubes because they overestimated revenues and underestimated costs over several years.

Is this a labor of love? Is the "executive" crew taking a salary? Self funded?

It all makes a difference imo.

#551 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Good point LTG. Why do any prototypes, when you can work on four different titles at once.

It's pretty clear all the RAZA and AIW $$$ went to John's doodling efforts with ZY. And other misguided BS. Steve Marsh was his main asset.

I'm happy that Jeremy is gonna get paid for "eleven sketches" with our funding. I really don't care. Chump change or "crumbs"

Maybe John can actually create something that works with an entire team around him. The massive ego balloon is bound to have shrunk a bit after all this.

#553 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'll admit, I'm really excited.

Did RD just run through your screen door again?

#555 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

No, but a little birdy told me instead of Houdini there is a good chance we might finally get that Egyptian Magician pinball machine before the end of the decade.

So you are saying by 2020?

#558 3 years ago

There is a field on the claim form that asks “what is owed” based on the contract with John

I don’t owe shit. I’ve paid in. He owes me “crumbs”

Waiting on the smart ass remarks?

#567 3 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

We are going through them one at a time. There were a lot of claims filed and some of them with volumes of proof. We appreciate your patience.
—Robert dT

Why don't you and John swing by my office down IH-10 so we can get some in person verification? That should save some processing time. You know where I'm at.

#568 3 years ago

As an "advisor" I'd love to hear what you have to offer for my clients since there is nothing like it in the world. Call my office to schedule appt

Screen Shot 2018-02-15 at 9.10.18 PM (resized).png

#569 3 years ago

Offer and acceptance

So for example, in my case, I'll be receiving a refund check of $4500 x 50% = $2,250?

OR, I could add an additional $500 and receive "one deeproot tech machine of my choice". Got it

"For RAZA/AIW customers: the benefit depended on the TOTAL amount of payments made on either, or both, RAZA/AIW. Each Plaintiff could pay additional money, to deeproot Tech, to receive greater benefits.
For RAZA/AIW customers who paid under $5,000 by a certain date (combined deposits between RAZA & AIW), they would receive a monetary refund of one-half of the total deposit.
For RAZA/AIW customers who paid at least $5,000 by a certain date (combined deposits between RAZA, AIW and/or additional payments), they would receive one deeproot Tech machine of their choice (shipping and taxes extra).
For RAZA/AIW customers who paid at least $9,500 by a certain date (combined deposits between RAZA, AIW and/or additional payments), they would receive two deeproot Tech machines of their choice (shipping and taxes extra).
For RAZA/AIW customers who paid at least $14,500 by a certain date (combined deposits between RAZA, AIW and/or additional payments), they would receive three deeproot Tech machines of their choice (shipping and taxes extra).
For Plaintiffs who paid at least $5,000 by a certain date, in combined deposits between RAZA, AIW and/or additional payments, the unused excess RAZA/AIW deposits for such Plaintiff would be applied towards the retail price of a separate and additional deeproot Tech Game."

#576 3 years ago
Quoted from HeavyMetalBalls:

Can anybody at least acknowledge that deeproot signing John was a good thing for the zidware customers? You all hate deeproot for what JOHN did to zidware customers. But bitch at a company who comes along and tries to fix it

I think if you read the comments in this and other threads most people think it will be a good thing for everybody, including Zidware customers, if DR is successful.

When you associate yourself with Jpop, whom many people that experienced the whole ordeal from start to finish and felt defrauded and lied to, like Ipeters said, "caution is warranted".

Especially when you come off the way they do before actually accomplishing anything other than spend money, they bring a lot of the BS on themselves.

If they make it work and prove it, that's great.

#601 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I did. Or more specifically, I risked it for the Biscuit Head.

That is F ing hilarious Frolic! Yet so true.

We know how the story ends here.

You can't change who people are.

#605 3 years ago

Deeproot 575 Fund, LLC per SEC public filing

Filing is as of 8/8/17. You can see plenty of $$ has been raised so far for this "alternative investment"

42 total investors of which 16 are "non accredited" and at an average investment of approx. $159,000 per investor

Gotta give em credit for promoting and raising those funds

Screen Shot 2018-02-22 at 5.33.52 PM (resized).png

#607 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Nothing to sneeze at. Without seeing a business plan, no idea if its a smart bet or not, but 42 people thought so. And jpop is glad to get a paycheck again.

And that's as of last August so good or bad, genius or stupidity, these guys will be around for awhile to give it a go.

The idea that they tried to buy Spooky pinball is somewhat baffling other than they needed something to show for investor $$$.

If you are getting a claim satisfied you have the investors to thank for it.

They obviously needed "big name" designers with a track record and IP assets and a team to support the venture, including Jpop with a history that could be sold without the dogshit and biscuit head stories to unknowing investors.

It's certainly a different approach to pinball.

#631 3 years ago

My proof of claim is the Pinside thread I started years ago. I didn’t go through yrs of BS for the fun of it

I can’t go back and get canceled checks from that far back

1 week later
#642 2 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Sooo, you got out lawyered. Nice.

Nope, DR has been really good and responsive about the claim. They discovered my payments through John's info. I only had $4250 in RAZA and AIW and had written that off long ago.

I'm on team DR now! Hoping for the best and success in this new venture.

#667 2 years ago

The possible difference this time is that John always needed somebody to ride his ass, organize and channel him towards progress

Maybe DR can do it. And John’s massive ego surely has been taken down a peg or two

My feeling is John will do anything to restore some semblance of his pinball legacy. If DR can get MG, AIW and RAZA out AND they work and play great then I can see John going back into strut mode

It’s been a LONG journey and we got a long ways to go

#683 2 years ago

Trusting Jpop was stupid in hindsight

I own it and cut my pmts off early on

I fully paid for TBL though because you bought in that expo Aurich with those Dutch dipshits

Thank the lord Philgate happened shortly thereafter

We all should own our stupid mistakes. I have no problem with it.

As for Alien, only have $1500 into that shitshow

Fast forward, nobody is getting Fed on pre pay model anymore. So that’s a good thing

Live and learn

#709 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

you know, i was feeling shitty today. a good laugh is so healthy for you. I'm pissing myself looking at these pics, even though I made them.

LOL Frolic. Lmao!

1 week later
#748 2 years ago

Sell a ton of pins?

Jimmy Buffet

Get it done

1 month later
#831 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

What if Nordman were to leave for personal reasons like if his wife were to become ill or any life changing event?
I'd hate to see unfair conspiracies coming from Pinside based on the superficial... And please know that it wasn't just Nordman abruptly leaving Heighway, it was his somewhat ambiguous answers as to why he left.
I realise everyone is trigger happy right now but let's not jump to conclusions based on recent Heighway Pinball events.
As far as people filing a claim for what they are owed, I really don't see the issue at this point. Each of us needs to do what is best for ourselves and if I had not been a part of the lawsuit, I would be filing a claim. I'm not saying this will have a good outcome as I don't know but realistically, it's your best option right now, IMO.

A voice of sanity and reason!

#832 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

The problem I see with tearing a company down prematurely is it can create a self fulfilling prophecy. The people at risk are the employees and the investors.
Until they start asking for pre-order money, I don't see their angle in ripping off the pinball community.

Look, Robert needs to work on his personal skills, I wouldn't take the Mike at Homepin approach when trying to sell pinball machines. And embracing John and being pompous about it was/is unwise.

That said, there are good people at work making pinball machines and getting paid for it. In other words feeding their families.

Secondly, there are good people with hard earned $$$ invested in this project, passive investors, that hope to receive a return on their investment.

So while it may be fun to blast Robert as he keeps putting his foot in mouth, and oh by the way, Gary Stern doesn't have an ass left its been chewed off down to the bone now, I'm anxious to see what happens here and hope for the sake of pinball, investors and employees that they succeed.

#839 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

The difference is Gary is and has been running a successful pinball manufacturing company. You should be saying and doing all the right things when tying to get off the ground...and NOT hiring persona non grata employees.

It’s the mistake of a pinball newbie. Won’t be the first or the last

There r a lot of things that he shouldn’t be saying and doing

Pinheads are a finicky bunch. If he starts acting like a salesman and less like a DB lawyer then things could turn

They still have to produce. If not, the guy will be destroyed. No pre payments

#842 2 years ago

Well, well, well....Kman seems to think I'm shiliing for DR pinball?

Can you be any more hypocritical? This guy was a shill for Totan, MG and a lovefest for it AND John while AP was trying to build his game and make it right.

So YOU Kman, while i love you man and your passion, are the hypocritical crybaby complainer here.

I don't wish for doom and gloom and failure. WTF. That's petty and BS so I think many folks need to get the F off their own high horse.

So take your own advice, take a F ing breath and enjoy your weekend and have fun brother.

Root for failure? That bad karma is on you F ers.

Some of you need to get a grip on reality. There are different interests at stake here and the HATE angle is BS.

NOBODY has one F ing dime into DR pinball. Can anybody F ing understand that?

IF they deliver WITHOUT a pre order deposit AND some of the former Jpop buyers get made somewhat whole, and you hate that, then F you.

#844 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I have no issues with a new pinball company coming along...none. But when you hire JPOP I now have a problem. He should not be working in pinball ever again...ever. We should not support him. On that note we should not support a company that supports him. That's my take.
Had they come in and hired a bunch of industry people and got to work and said all the right things...great, I'm interested. Let's see what you can do.
But not now...I'm out. (Unless they fire JPOP and change their tune...then I might be back in).

Can you support Nordman, Barry and the rest of the crew?

So what if Robert acts like a dick. He has to answer to his investors. Do you think i would buy a Jpop game? No way. Hypocrite Kman will, he loves him as an "artistic genius".

No preorder $$$, a lot of people here have nothing to lose and something to gain. That simple.

Peace and love baby! Make it happen or not. Nobody is out a dime. There are some thick headed M fers that can't seem to grasp that.

Whatever, don't buy anything here. I respect everybody's choice.

Btw, my IMDNLE is arriving next week, so all is good in Pinball world. I didn't flip it.

#846 2 years ago

"llegitimi non carborundum". My civil procedure professor (former judge) always reminded us in law school, "Don't let the bastards wear you down"

The thing about Pinside and previous pre order scumbags is NOBODY took the initiative at the time to actually go and find out wtf was really going on until it was too late.

Bitch, whine, moan and complain here. What good does that F ing do?

Get your arse over to Robert's office if you care that much and/or it offends you that much and call him out face to face.

The only people man enough so far are the plaintiffs that actually flew to Chicago to stick it up John's ass. Where were the other burn em at the stake cheerleaders? Podcasting?

Once again, DR hasn't taken a DIME of anybody's $$$. Yet if you are so butthurt that they are trying to make pinball machines and don't like it then go picket in front of their offices or some BS.

Create some # movement

#848 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Sorry Ice , I have a legit reason to protect my IP Derppoop now thinks is automatically theirs by hiring John. So couple that with the attitude and the way he treats fellow pinsiders, personally, I cant disagree with you more. If they had the decency of reaching out and not coming on here spewing lies and calling me dishonest which I was 100% not then perhaps I could see your points. I would never expect people to stay at a hotel that the owner pissed in his guests or potential guest's cornflakes, so if this guy wants to piss all over his potential customers , then I just have no desire to support anything he's selling.

Go for it Bill, you deserve it, like I've said. That's your call, one person who deserves a whole lot better. John really stuck it up your ass and i don't blame you one bit for wanting to take a pound of flesh. If you can get it, get it. It's all the other drive by looky lou mfers that have zero clue and are hypocrites.

The rest of us, we are gonna see what happens. Nordman and Barry. I haven't given them a DIME. It's happening anyway and I don't really care whether i get a game or not, other than i hope it works for the employees and investors. I wish you well!

He has been a dick, no doubt, dug a deep hole with his stupidity, he's had my friend/his lawyer call me re things i said before. Whatever.

What are you/we out? Chump change/peanuts as California Pelosi would say right? Actually, I acknowledge you are out a whole lot more! But don't let the negative doomsayers with ZERO in this weigh you down. Life is too short brother.

Peace and love to you!

AND I'm less interested in flipping LE's for a profit versus seeing the hobby thrive and succeed.

#852 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

And who qualifies as this?
I didn't lose a dime to JPOP or SkitB. From Heighway I actually got a game. But I'd never buy a future game from JPOP, Kevin or Andrew. Or anyone who supported them.

They know who they are, not referring to you Astro but you came out of that era quite nicely if Alien holds up, congrats. I would most likely have eaten my $1500 and not paid the rest for that pin.

I don't recall the uproar when AP was finishing off John's MG pins with the $$$ that the rest of us contributed to and got nothing?

I was happy for those people that got something for all the grief.

I don't care who buys what or who supports who.

I, for the reasons stated before, hope that DR succeeds.

If other people want to throw grenades and pray for failure that's on them. That's different than just saying you won't support them by buying a game.

Lotta hate flowing and being ginned up by some.

I'm excited about what's coming for pinball, including DR

I GUARANTEE you that if they make great pinball games with Nordman and Barry, people will buy it. You know, just a bunch of "chumps".

#859 2 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Damn Ice, you sure have the right ingredients for a lawyer, an overabundance of hot air and totally pompous and arrogant, carry on!

Thanks, coming from a New Yorker I get it and appreciate the comments!

Anybody put any preorder $$ down? No? Didn't think so.

#862 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

When they choose to seek employment with more reputable employers? Or hell, put up another Kickstarter. I'll support that before I support anything I've seen out of Deeproot up until now, which is to say more hot air than Old Faithful. If nothing else, I hope for Barry's sake this garbage turns out legit. Not like...Heighway Legit, but Chicago Gaming / Spooky / American Pinball legit.

Eh? I posted on this thread or somewhere else that I'd see if I could make a trip down there on my vacation week this summer if they wanted to give me access to some kind of proof they're a legitimate company with real, provable licences and rights to do the things they're claiming, and not simply just pissing all over people. Got no response at all. I'm not wasting my vacation on these tw--s unless I have an official invite and explanation of whatever NDAs they want me to sign upfront though...lol. I don't even have anything to do with MG/Jpop. I just think they're full of it.
5 games at once..LOL...what a beautiful way to commit business suicide. There's no way they're going to produce 5 games at once in any kind of volume all at the same time. Even Stern isn't THAT stupid. Even if you CAN do it, you're just cannibalizing your own sales.
I guess I'm not as "Kool"(uris) as Kaneda?

You should make a trip down Frax. I’ll go over there with you to meet those guys

#864 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Have....have we ever even met in person? LOL. I'm godawful terrible trying to remember who is who on here.

I don’t think so. Let me know if you make it down though.

Forewarning, I’m the arrogant A hole attorney

1 month later
#938 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Consider that if they're on the up-and-up and are successful, they're offering some form of restitution to all the buyers who had money deposited with JPOP and aren't part of the lawsuit.
Maybe Jpop's involved because they wanted his IP and patents for their machines, can't think of any other reason.
I'm hoping they succeed for the sake of myself and all the others who were and are presently involved.
As someone else mentioned, as long as they're paying their employees and not asking for money, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and get past JPOP's involvement.

Hard to believe the patents are worth anything

Maybe new stuff they are trying to integrate into pinball

I’m not sure how the slot machine technology works on displaying content on the glass but that would be really cool

#969 2 years ago

When you are spending other people's money, and a whole lot of it, it's all in, balls to the wall.....no choice

You have to create the possibility of success for the investors that dropped in the coin.

Will this pinball venture work out? Who knows, but the only people that have their ass on the line are Robert and crew that took OPM.

As far as I'm concerned, i love competition and i hope DR can make it work with the talent assembled.

Whatever it is, let's hope its NOT the JJP model. Great pins but $10k per isn't going to cut it long term.

#976 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Yes, but what if you expected nothing and someone gave you a Yugo?

Exactly. And all of these "what ifs" remind me of "if pigs had wings they could fly".

We had ZERO, now maybe we at least have a Yugo

#1003 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I don't get why all these manufacturers are always bragging about hiring these old dudes that made games 20 or 30 years ago. I want to see new, young design talent discovered. They are out there, and you probably can pay them less than these old reheated design ideas from the same 5 people.

Probably because you can't afford to F up when you are spending millions of other people's $$$

Where is the "young new design talent" that understands pinball?

Probably making more $$ doing something else.

#1011 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Stern is hiring people based not upon stuff they did 30 years ago, but on potential.
TNA is a huge hit and I've never heard of the guy who designed it before.
Deep Root is pinning it's hopes on Magic Girl, Gorgar 2 and Dr Dude 2 and AP brought the band back together for those of you who are big Lost in Space fans.

Lets wait and see what they actually produce before getting all bent out of shape over nothing. It's called keeping an open mind!

Scott, Eric and Keith are all new designers doing a great job so far.

And i don't see DR being another retread pinball company, they appear to bringing new innovation to the pinball world. We know the sound/audio/animations are going to be off the charts with David and crew.

Oh btw, Stern is gonna sell 12k pins this year, mix in the tax cut and they can afford to hire "potential".

2 weeks later
#1058 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

If nothing else, this could end up being one big tax write off for deeproot.

It wouldn’t help DR necessarily. I guarantee you investors don’t want a tax write off Odiner

They want to pay a shitload of tax. Means they made a shitload of profit

#1061 2 years ago

As for the lawyers. I get why some went that direction and I applaud them for standing on principal.

It doesn’t surprise me this is where we are at with Jpop

Counter sue. Drag it out and lawyers win again

Just like all the wasted legal fees DR spent trying to cut a deal

If you chose not to settle then you expect to get your $$ back out of Jpop, not DR after the fact

#1062 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Not anymore. MASSIVE TAX CUT baby!!!

Now you are gettin Levi!

#1064 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Sure, but when a company throws a shitload of good money after bad and then the vision fails and they decide to cut their losses, at least it becomes beneficial at tax time.

What I’m saying is the loss would provide very little to zero benefit to DR and Robert

The shareholders/investors get the benefit of the loss and only at $3k per yr plus offsetting other gains

#1065 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I expect to see pictures of new pinball machines for sale from new companies on pinball forums. Not this same old song and dance.

I do too. Supposedly that’s coming

#1067 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Better than that final poke in the eye with a sharp stick!

I agree with that! Because Jpop already poked one eye out

#1132 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The vast volume of machines American Pinball has shipped really showed that the depths of Houdini Pinball are inexhaustible.

How many Houdini’s are out there?

DR has a passion for pinball and a nice team in place

We all know how horrible pinball companies are at marketing. I’m assuming they will use social media to expand into the non pinhead world

I’m skeptical it will work on a big scale but def excited to see it play out

It’s just pinball after all and I’m not sure how many crazy people like us are out there

1 week later
#1218 2 years ago
Quoted from ZNET:

The preorder price for an Emerald City LE WOZ was actually $6,500 back in about 2011, as I recall. Many enthusiasts deemed that price point to be outrageously high, even though the game was packed with endless high-end features. Oh. . .the good old days. . .

Amen to the good old days! Still, 7 yrs later its hard to believe how far pinball has come back, and high prices along with it.

I bought a LOTRLE Nib for $5200 that year, my first pin, needed something while we waited for Woz.

Never intended it to turn into a dozen pins and growing after all these years. It's been a fun ride!

#1259 2 years ago

"Cheap pinball" has left the building.

So has the nostalgic past of Dmd's and other inferior options.

Last time i checked TNA isn't "cheap". I don't care how good it is.

It's a unique one off. Like everything else, the bloom will fade off that rose too.

#1284 2 years ago

The LCD effect will eventually be part of the glass

A world on the glass

Think about slot machines today

Deep root probably already has it implemented

#1350 2 years ago

I was coming home from the Medical Center here in SA, visiting a friend in really bad shape, and decided to swing by Deep Root on the way home.

It's a huge facility in the SA business park that has been around for decades. It has to be a massive amount of overhead to cover. Not sure how many square ft. but its quite large like i said. Major cash burn with labor included.

Not a car in the parking lot on a Saturday.

It's definitely all in with these guys.

1 week later
#1389 2 years ago

Small world. I’m redoing a Will and Trust Robert did back in 2004 for a new client that came in today

I told him he needs to look into the pinball hobby

1 week later
#1435 2 years ago

As of this time last yr according to the SEC filing DR had raised $6.2 million roughly

Haven’t seen 2018 disclosure

The money is coming through investment advisers selling this project to accredited investors. Obviously as a high risk alternative asset class

The advisers got paid over $400k for raising that $ or what looks to be an 8% commission

Either way, they are funded quite well and like I said the facility/offices are substantial and ready to pump out a large quantity of pins!

We could have another major competitor here

#1454 2 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

It's highly unlikely that any of their employees are also accredited investors (meaning they have a net worth of a million bucks or more). This is a federal requirement:

Or $200k single $300k joint income

And it’s basically just you disclosing you meet the criteria so the advisor who is selling these things is off the hook liability wise Red D wise

However, advisors still have other potential liability issues

1 month later
#1616 2 years ago

Isn't a DUMB AND DUMBER pin a good fit for our crowd?

1 week later
#1728 2 years ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

This seemed woefully unprepared and last minute. No slides/video or even a static image projected and seemingly loose agenda/message. I would expect with such a powerhouse team and seemingly infinite budget, that at least some slides could be put together. David Thiels presentation that he did himself on Q*Berts audio blew this entire presentation out of the water.

It's pinball, its horrific marketing, messaging and presentation. What do you expect.

That looks like a F ing criminal lineup, especially Jpop!

Are those his big balls laying on the floor? My god it takes some major stones to sit up there and "tell your story".

#1732 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm must say I'm impressed with the presentation! I want one of each.
Where do I send my money?

LOL. Send your Deposits to the Russian conspiracy campaign. You get a free pinball machine

#1825 2 years ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Sounds like a bunch of butthurt haters in here. The fact there is a thread dedicated to J-pop is all you need to know. When I meet him I’m gonna hi five him twice. Once for all the great machines he designed and the second for pimpin all your money .
I saw nobody in line for Deadpool, Midevil Madness not Monster Bash, but all his Pins were non stop people waiting to play
So keep pretending he’s not the MAC. He got all your money and hasn’t skipped a beat and will have another great Pin out next year.

Bye bye Kaneda. LOL

That MG box of shit you bought isn't going to turn into anything but....

On second thought, the spelling leads me to believe its some entirely different idiot, Kman isn't a total dummy.

1 month later
#1941 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

If you assume distribution makes at least 10% on sales... and an even 'average' price of 5k USD per unit. That means they need to sell 500 games A MONTH @$4500 to distribution just to break even month to month.

Well i think they are planning on selling at least that many games a month.

Next question, how do you go from zero to MAKING 500 games a month and getting them out the door?

Stern does about double that with 325 employees. Do the math.

The biggest absolute CRUSHER is delays while you have that kind of cash burn.

Noodling and doodling to be the best is one thing but man you gotta stop the BURN.

#1942 2 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

$750k/month spend is likely a made up figure to puff themselves up/make themselves look bigger.

I'd say that isn't BS. I've seen the local facility and they have another one in Utah.

You know what they say, "you gotta spend money to make money"

This will either pan out before they run out of money OR it will be an epic failure. If they survive it will be a long journey out of the hole.

#1953 2 years ago
Quoted from Bud:

In the end, if he has tons of money (his own, not investors)

It's "investor" money looking for a return. He's raised at least $13 million from what i can tell by the SEC filings. Investment Advisors are selling this idea to their clients.

I agree with Lloyd, i hope they make it, would be great for pinball.

#2008 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

deeproot Pinball
Fire and Brimstone | Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland | Magic Girl | Alice in Wonderland | Dennis Nordman Unlicensed | Dennis Nordman Unlicensed 2

Reminiscent of Nordman telling Andrew Heighway to pound sand re his BS claims.

The "leadership team", probably Nordman, put things on a more realistic timeline.

Who else in that group has more experience making pinball machines?

#2034 2 years ago

If it’s 3D or VR I have no interest. My PlayStation VR goes untouched these days

What could be interesting is video on the glass like they do with slot machines today

1 week later
#2162 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Spooky made all 150 AMH's in a pair of units under 2k Sq ft total. Not all that different than a garage.
As I've said a zillion times the difference between early Spooky/Scott and Jpop is Spooky had to SHOW A REAL GAME to get any money. People don't work very hard for money that's already in the bank.

Which is stupid and makes no sense if you want to remain viable

The idiot Jpop figured he could just doodle around until some investor came along to save his ass.

Honestly, the first sign of absolute stupidity was making you Ben a central figure in RAZA. No offense but that was as ridiculous as both of you coming to our houses to do the personal builds.

It was an excellent con game on his part. That ended in disaster.

#2181 2 years ago

Jpop is bad karma. Period.

Only the lawyers win.

#2199 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I guarantee you on some laywers' forum there's a whole 500 page thread of people bitching about unpaid JPOP legal bills.

And why on earth they took the case in the first place

2 weeks later
#2234 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

"deeproot Pinball plans to give away a FREE pinball machine for each designer to some lucky winners!! Designers include Robert Mueller, Dennis Nordman, Jon Norris, Barry Oursler, and John Popadiuk. You get a FREE deeproot machine of your choice by that designer! The designer will also help set up the machine, discuss the design process and the game, and play your game at your place of residence!! You can invite up to four friends. These giveaways will take place after deeproot Pinball officially launches!! (Reasonable restrictions apply. Subject to change.)"
Oh my.. where have we heard this before...

Lol. This can’t be serious

Designers include Robert......?

#2260 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So other companies are giving TWIP t-shirts and translites to give away to promote their brands, and Deeproot is giving away 5 machines and paying for the designer to get on a plane and set it up in their house.
My "This doesn't make sense" rule is kicking in here.

Feels like deja vu all over again right Frolic

3 weeks later
#2345 2 years ago

I believe in forgiveness and redemption.

I think John got himself caught up in a situation of taking people's money and being a horrendous business person and steward of our funds.

I believe he thought he was "entitled" to noodle and doodle for YEARS and that the effort to get games done would be good enough and that's just how business works.

He clearly misrepresented many things regarding his efforts and progress towards completing his job. He lied.

While lying, he continued to take $$$ for AIW and other payments knowing full well he was neck deep in a pool of shit.

Fast forward to now and i'm willing to see how this whole journey plays out. His massive ego has been humbled many notches yet......

He still to this date hasn't shown any contrition or simply said "I'm sorry".

#2385 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Thing is, based on their $ burn rate, even an amazing product delivery may not keep them afloat. In my estimation the pinball hobby is definitely still growing but not at a rate fast enough to absorb 5 new titles at once, with 5+ other manufacturers also releasing titles this year.
So far, pinball growth has seemed organic and sustainable.
I hope it works!

I totally agree with this. I mean as you are modeling this thing out month to month, with that burn rate, how many pins would they have to sell and deliver to get to breakeven? There is already a shitload of sunk costs with zero revenue.

Can they even produce enough to meet that number in the time period they need to? Either way its going to be a long haul and hopefully a successful one.

The demand has to be there first off. Man i'm excited about the possibilities but i'm not sure how the math adds up here.

Plus, the investors are expecting a certain ROI.

They are currently hiring "assemblers" here in the area so I'm assuming we will find out shortly.

#2424 2 years ago
Quoted from Brijam:

If their burn rate is $9mm per year (as was posted a few months ago) and their net profit is $2,500 per pin, their breakeven is about 10 pins a day every day of the year, or about 14 pins a day running their factory 5 days a week with a two week holiday.
Of course that $2,500 net is pure speculation on my part.
Anyway, that's for breakeven at the current run rate.
Keep in mind that they may not have to pay their investors back for years if their play is to go public or be acquired.

I don't know. What kind of volume does Stern do per day? JJP? American? Does anyone know that can say?

We know Stern delivered about 10k pins in 2017. Let's say they delivered 11k pins in 2018 at an avg gross margin profit of $2500 ea

That means that they delivered on average about 31 pinball machines PER DAY, every day of the year!

$2500 x 11k pins gives you $27,500,000 to cover fixed overhead and net profit.

They did that with 300+ employees and a manufacturing machine!

You gotta "keep the line running" constantly.

Look at what JJP has to charge just to stay in business. Have they ever turned a profit?

#2425 2 years ago

And if Stern sold and delivered 11k pinball machines over 240 work days then that is 45.8 pins per day.

So regardless of what you want to believe, its a shitload of pins on a daily basis.

3 weeks later
#2493 1 year ago
Quoted from brucipher:

Because at this point they have not taken consumers money, so why not give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing ever shows up, oh well, nobody loses, and on top of that some old guys collected some paychecks.

The "losers" will be confined to the investors.

I don't know if they can sell enough pins to ever cover the cash burn but I'd like to see it happen.

#2529 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Reminds me of a scene from Silicon Valley where a receptionist is offering the boys some fancy coconut water while they waited for a meeting, and his response was "I get it, you're funded."
Tech, however, can scale to massive size which is the bet everyone makes on it. Pinball manufacturing, well, we have a pretty good grasp of the potential of that and endless cash burn is not a recipe for success.

Let me spell it out for you guys again..............

The last figures i saw was around $13 million raised on a Reg D filing. Probably more now?

It's public record via the SEC. They raised the $$$ paying "Investment Advisors" an 8% commission to get their clients to buy into this DP venture.

It's speculative and the investors are "accredited" and that's what this type of venture is all about.

And the operative phrase is like Frolic says, "can we scale up" once we get these pins out there and on the line for sale.

I really hope so. This could be an exciting venture that provides competition to Stern especially.

But they have to sell a shitload of pins and time is not on their side. Let's get moving!

2 weeks later
#2597 1 year ago

Isn’t PF swap what Multimorphic does sort of?

And Heighway was theoretically heading in that direction

I can’t see it myself.

Gonna have to swap a pf out every few games when you want to change it up?

I don’t care how easy it is. Doesn’t sound appealing

But that is obviously how they are trying to bring cost down

#2599 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Keep in mind a transparent LCD glass can only darken things it can't add light. Unless it's OLED but that would be unaffordable at this time.
Also you'd have to use a camera to track the players head and eyes to render the correct perspective.

Could you incorporate slot machine animations and graphics that appear on the glass now?

Not sure how it’s done but it’s really cool

#2625 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yes. I’m convinced. Your insane idea that I can one day buy 4-1 classic Williams widebody kit for $10,000 is indeed a good one.
Consider my stance changed.
Speaking of beverages, what in God’s name are you and ICe drinking down there in Texas. Is there something in the water?

Must be the tequila talking with my friend Adam

The problem with DR it would seem is that they don’t have years of runway like you had/have Gerry for people to adopt to whatever it is they are doing

They need to come out of the gate selling a shitload of pins to cover that overhead

That’s the biggest risk. The smell of cash burn is not a good one

#2636 1 year ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Having a lot of money to support the risks associated with innovation will certainly let them hit the ground running faster than we did. Lack of money made us implement our ideas with passion and personal investment. If they have half the passion that we did (and still do), then I'm sure they'll deliver some really cool things. Hopefully this seemingly well-funded company can break down more walls people seem to have around innovation in this industry. If they do, we all win. I personally wish them luck.
- Gerry

Well as another fellow Texan I wish you best of luck as well.

The longer you can survive to see the dreams come true is important

Finances and operating budgets matter

Thus so does the runway to success

#2638 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I beg to differ but I’m an open-minded guy, id love to be convinced. It certainly makes Zero sense for the pinside crowd.
“Hey who wants to come see
My rad pinball collection?”
“Who wants to come see my one game and stack of playfields?”

Well you and Kaneda of all people should love this concept with the limited expensive space you have in New York City

#2643 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I don’t know about him but I got 15 games set up to play.
Not an issue for me.
Besides have you seen how we live?! Where am I gonna store a bunch of playfields in crates?

Chris would like to store a few games with you Levi!

If you have 15 games set up you can store about a 100 PF's in crates, no brainer.

#2694 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I love how people read something like this and then say:
"I can't believe you wouldn't be into a swappable playfield! It makes so much sense! Give me one reason it's a bad idea!!!"

What if people are too lazy to swap out a PF? You know if it takes more that 2 or 3 connections people start freaking out.

OR, more importantly, what if one drops and destroys the PF while drinking?

1 week later
#2773 1 year ago
Quoted from Netzley_Crunch:

The last day of MGC my spouse and I played a three player game of Black Knight with David Thiel and I asked about the Deep Root projects. He was kind and friendly.
We missed his panel so I assume what he told us he told everyone during his panel, that Raza will be the first game and he’s been working on it. He said the whitewood is being worked on now, he expects a prototype to work on in two months, and he can only guess at how long it will take to set up a factory line to produce the machines as that hasn’t even started yet.
His best guess was a machine 14-16 months from now contingent on the manufacturing guys making sure everything works. Sorry if this is cumulative with all knowledge already out there.

Say what?

No F ing way

If Raza isn’t about ready to hit the line after all this time and $$$ AND the head start of years of Jpop doodling then stick a fork in it

He had to be f ing with you

#2789 1 year ago
Quoted from daudioguy:

I was trying to be noncommittal on the day. If whatever I said was understood as as estimate of time let me clarify: I really have no idea and my NDA would prevent me from telling anybody if I had hard facts (which I don't).
I work 2100 miles from where the games will be manufactured and I am laser focused in my NW studio on creating the best audio I can make for Deeproot pinball machines (yes plural).

No problem David. We forgive you!

Btw, thank you for the best audio package on a pinball machine ever in Alien.

DR def did one smart thing in bringing you on board!

#2832 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

its as if... you can hear the money jumping out of people's pockets already... FFS

$$$ already jumped out of my pocket for Raza

Happy to see it happening with my credit. Never thought Raza would see the light of day

But yes, let’s actually see a game ffs

#2839 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I am pretty darn negative on Deeproot because of their work with Jpop. That said, I am a huge fan of Dennis Nordman both as a person and a pinball designer. Neither of those two points are what made me post in this thread tonight though. I'm posting because that video posted on the previous page is DAMN impressive. The production value is miles ahead of anything JJP or Stern has done. If that is even close to the level of production that actually incorporated into their games, I could see them really hitting the ground running. Also, I like the widescreen. This will hopefully allow them to have a full backglass/translite unlike the screen on JJP games that is way too big and hogs the backbox. Hopefully the display is above and not blocked by ramps and playfield components as some are speculating. That would make no sense.

Well they should have the sound covered with David Thiel. Combine with fantastic animation and its an excellent start.

After all these years of doodling I'm expecting a layout masterpiece as well!

#3095 1 year ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Correction... There's:
Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth
Lexy Lightspeed - Secret Agent Showdown
Cosmic Cart Racing
Cannon Lagoon
Grand Slam Rally
Hoopin' It Up
I've heard very few people claim to not enjoy the innovations. On the contrary, the innovations and the industry-leading price per game are the things people seem to love the most. The biggest knocks on the P3 are the lack of popular theme and the need for better art design (which we hear and have taken big steps to improve).
Back on topic, DR is starting with one thing that we didn't start with... money. Good on them. They've leveraged that money to pull big teams of people together, and that seems to be a major reason why everybody's got so many expectations for their products. Whether or not they turn that into corporate success and fun playing pinball machines... we all wait to see.
- Gerry

Great job Gerry. Didn’t know you had a Hoopin it up

$16 million raised as of last Aug is a few bucks more than you started with?

The fact that Robert has come out of hiding and is chiming in again must mean games are right around the corner

#3101 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Wow. I thought the number was $7. No risk of the cash burn ending anytime soon.

Sec Reg D filing. Public record

Updated every August

So lots of burn/runway

#3105 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

Any idea about how much JJP raised ? I'm curious to see how this compares although JJP already had a foot in the market when they did their raise.

The difference is Jack has a single deep pocket investor to keep going to the well if necessary

Being a private transaction nobody knows but the bailout after TH had to be millions

In DR case 88 individuals/entities ponied up $16 mill as of last August, an average of about $181k each

DR will/should hit the ground running versus the multi year JJP slog

#3141 1 year ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

What's your proof/source for this? I seriously haven't heard/read anything like this.

Maybe you can call Jack and ask him yourself

#3142 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts about the Jpop hate in this thread. For me, I’m mostly over it and I have better reasons than most to be angry. I’m continuing along with my lawsuit against the man and I do seek justice. But at this point I’m weary of my posturing in the past and I’m especially tired of these useless, drive-by, Pinside out bursts of hate. Example, the non-sequitur comment a few pages back about Deeproot needing to fire Jpop.
One of the reason I mention this is because I sense an evolution of improving attitudes here towards Jpop. It seems to me that more and more people are now speaking up in supporting John. And I get it, as I see reasons to support him and Deeproot too.
Anyway, I find the recent attitude change here interesting from where we began long ago, along with my own evolution.
Whether I collect my judgment against Jpop in time or not, I intend to purchase a RAZA or other Deeproot machine, pending inspection and production of course. - Do as you like but those are my thoughts.
Note: I still hate Whysnow. Hopefully I can maintain some street cred with that.

Lol Kim!

Glad you got out of your Magic Girl with a profit. That is a small club of people.

I hope we ALL can move forward and benefit. At least DR is trying to make it right after all these years.

Only the lawyers win. Still true years later. Nobody is ever getting a dime out of Jpop. Still

#3147 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

So Kim is a lawyer too?

No but he stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!

He "led" the lawsuit group which in my opinion is a waste of time and money. Years later and nothing.

I and others chose the DR "credit" route that Robert offered.

#3149 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

The lawsuit was filed years before Deeproot Pinball existed and long before a credit was even an option. To present them as an, either or, is misleading, which you often do on Pinside. And without the lawsuit, the offer might never have come. - Would I change things with the benefit of hindsight? Maybe.
Some of us are men of action while others prefer to flap their gums on the internet.

That's not true actually. You still had the opportunity to settle with DR and chose not to. That was your choice. You now have the lawsuit and no credit.

A "man of action"....lol. And a big "winner" too.

The fact that you would gloat about being a "winner" for getting a MG and selling it for a big profit while the rest of us are the "losers" is kind of pathetic and "small minded" Those are your words to me, not misleading or otherwise. So as you sip your bourbon tonight you can smile and thank all of us "losers' for funding that MG.

It still doesn't change the fact that John was a terrible person for what he did and now he's seeking redemption.

#3151 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

And you don't know the details nor any privileged information of those dealings. But here you are once again, making assumptions and acting like you know it all.

Actually, you and i had private discussions about those "dealings" a while back. So i do know what you told me AND it doesn't matter other than where we are at today. You got greedy and made the wrong choice and led others down that same path.

Life is too short, keep knocking out that lawsuit and i hope it makes you feel better about yourself.

#3153 1 year ago

You are so full of shit!

Lighten up Francis

#3197 1 year ago
Quoted from frankmac:

[quoted image]

Classic John.

Self proclaimed “hardest working man in pinball”

Paying himself with our $$$ to doodle all day

#3199 1 year ago

Anybody know TRC73 that likes to follow me and others around to downvote everything? Just joined

Nvm, he's done.

#3201 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

I don't know but I like his style. You've been consistently thread shitting for about 5 pages. Maybe sit out from pinside a few days.

So it was you with the dupe account? LOL

Kim and I have squabbles and then its over. Sometimes under the influence. EDIT: Nvm, not over, so sad and my feelings are really hurt

Thanks but no thanks on the advice

#3211 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm pretty sure the Deeproot logo is modeled after Linda Lovelace.

What are you 2 yrs old?

Robert isn’t going to appreciate that

Stick to your private going nowhere litigation group

One of the dumbest waste of time and money efforts ever!

Had we lost $300k each big boy then sure but what a F ing waste

#3213 1 year ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

I don't think there is a lot to loose in this case. Could be wrong. No disclosure.

You aren’t in the lawsuit are you Fulltilt?

Hopefully you took the credit?

#3215 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

that is a sick pin. Wow

Delt, it’s a cardboard box of Yeti artwork

That had no chance of actually working like MG

#3220 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

The credit is still nothing unless something gets made. Robert has not paid Cointaker like he promised, so I'm pesimistic on the entire thing.

I don’t blame you Hank

Bobby/Tommy Boy needs to deliver after spending a shit load of OPM $$$

And if you bought into that load of crap that Kimmy was selling then it was a big mistake

Big mouth BS means nothing. Bobby or Kimmy. And if pins don’t start rolling off the line soon then you will be correct in your pessimism

#3221 1 year ago

Just a reminder

Kimmy called us “losers” Hank

He got his MG, made his “profit” off of you and me Hank and Fulltilt

Whatever. He told me he was a “winner” and we were the losers?

Hmmmm. I wonder if Mr transparency wants to post the PM?

Who cares, life is too short to worry about that garbage

Chump change for chumps

Regardless, a “credit” is worth 1000x more than some BS lawsuit

#3222 1 year ago

And for the record

There is ZERO chance that Bobby is going to deliver on his contract by the end of June

#3224 1 year ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Nope.. waitin’ On the credit. (:

“So you say there is a chance”. LOL

You are in the right boat brother

If you spend $20 plus million and can’t get a game out then it still sucks but you weren’t part of the “investor group” that helped make it happen and lost all that $$$

June 30 is around the corner

This is pinball. Lies and broken promises

#3228 1 year ago
Quoted from SirScott:

Yeah, the last thing that we would want is to hurt Robert's feelings.

Sarcasm missed

#3233 1 year ago

Looks like DR is planning on "delivery" starting by June 30.

I just received the "Goodwill Agreement".

"By the delivery date, DR will offer at least three different titles....."

It looks like the standard pricing on these games is going to be $5k

Very nice!

And we will have the ability to tour the factory to play and select games.

#3237 1 year ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'm completely out of the loop. What is the "Goodwill Agreement" and what are you getting from DR? I assume the Goodwill Agreement has something to do with RAZA/MG/AIW/JPop fiasco?

Some people like Kim and his group opted for litigation.

Others took the DR offer to get fully reimbursed via a DR pinball machine for whatever deposit monies were put down on Jpop games.

I had a claim/credit of $4250 from RAZA/AIW that goes towards the purchase of a DR game.

I received an email reminder to finalize the "Goodwill Agreement" that was sent out a while back by May 31st.

The agreement has the terms i mentioned above. Thus, to meet the contractual obligations delivery is set to be done by June 30th.

We shall see Rob

#3238 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Not sure if serious

Wtf is not serious about it? Whether DR will deliver?

#3248 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Like when they said they’d ship more pins than all other manufacturers combined in 2019? :p

Does it matter to you? Good lord dude, you are like the guy assuming the position with a football.

You have been here for less than a year and post like a ..... so check yourself

#3251 1 year ago

Is there something wrong with you? It's non stop and you have NOTHING to do with Deeproot.

#3253 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Nonstop what? This is literally the first thing I’ve ever said bad about deeproot, and you attacked me personally for some reason.
Also, just because I didn’t get screwed by jpop, this means I’m not allowed to have an opinion about deeproot?

You post non stop in about every thread re JJP and Stern and waded over here. And you don't have the experience with DR or Jpop to post an educated opinion. That's my opinon.

#3255 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

So you’re upset that I... post a lot of the forum? That’s what people do on forums. Post and discuss things with other people. I’ve been following the deeproot thread for a while. I like many manufacturers and post in many threads. Stern, JJP, CGC, spooky, AP, b/w, data east, other old pins, etc. I am also an editor here on pinside and make key posts when I see them so I read through a lot of threads even if I don’t post.

Ok great.

You just have no clue re the history of Jpop and now DR. It shows in your snarky bs posts

"not sure if serious"? That dumb comment started the whole fiasco. You should go back and "edit" that.

#3257 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I’ve read the entire history. It’s all over the place. Anyone can read all about it.

That's pathetic. We lived it for years.

#3269 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I'd like tat to be true but how come your lover Chris did not yet make a podcast out of this?

"Delivery Date. deeproot Tech shall begin delivering pinball game machines (“hereinafter deeproot Games”) by June 30, 2019 (“Delivery Date”), or as may be amended by deeproot Tech to any earlier date. By the Delivery Date, deeproot Tech shall offer at least three different titles and shall identify all titles of deeproot Games that may be elected under this Agreement at least thirty (30) days in advance of the Delivery Date. deeproot Tech does not guarantee it will make any of the Subject Games. Should deeproot Tech elect to manufacture or sell any of the Subject Games, deeproot Tech has the sole and absolute right to alter the nature of the Subject Games (i.e. title, theme, structure, graphics, or layout) and the quantity produced of the Subject Games. The Delivery Date is the date deeproot Tech shall deliver the respective deeproot Game(s) to Customer (if in person) or to a third party shipper and is not necessarily the date on which a Customer shall receive the deeproot Game(s)."

Defaulting on the delivery date means the "Customer" shall receive a refund of the full deposit amount within 30 days of the Delivery Date deadline.

A. A game or games get delivered; OR

B. Deeproot pays the claim; OR

C. You can elect to carryforward your "deposit" if the deadline is missed

Either way it goes everybody that signed the deal is a winner. That's a good thing and a real thing if people can actually get made whole from the Jpop years.

#3270 1 year ago

Apparently John took deposits on a "Space Mission X" game that is part of the claim?

#3275 1 year ago
Quoted from SirScott:

I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself with the "winner" comment. None of those things has even happened yet.

That's ok.

We know there is big $$ behind the DR effort.

It's hard to see how they spend all that money and generate nothing. I guess it could happen, but highly doubt it.

Thus, lots of "winners" coming

#3294 1 year ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Why would you doubt it? They literally hired a designer who did just that, raised a ton of money and blew through it without generating anything. “This time it’s different.” The most expensive words in investing.

You aren’t able to see the difference between the two ventures?

Jpop didn’t have $20 million to blow

And like Aurich said it’s not just him doodling now

But we will see what happens.

#3300 1 year ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

The nice thing about pessimism is constantly being proven right, or being pleasantly surprised.
As far as I'm concerned, deeproot doesn't matter until there is a game I can pay cash for and immediately load up in the car.

I get what you are saying, but for a lot of us deeproot matters now and gives a lot of people a chance to be made whole from the Jpop fiasco, a huge Goodwill gesture on their part....

And hopefully pinball gets a new company with some great new innovative pins!

btw, my apologies to f3honda4me for hammering you unnecessarily

#3308 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Sorry I pushed your buttons. Hopefully we get some good news from deeproot soon!

It's all good Matt! And all on me, i acted terribly out of frustration so let's all carry on in good fun and peace brother.

Robert confirmed receipt of my Goodwill Agreement so it seems like some news is around the corner for us all. Thinking first of June after deadline of May 31st to get claims finalized?

#3328 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

I can’t believe I have to remind users here on Pinside, or listeners of podcasts, to assume anything posted (or disseminated) as fact by anyone other than me (personally) is guaranteed to be nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation. Letters went out to a few Zidware customers that said nothing more than (paraphrasing): get in the contract sent to you last year by May 31st or else your claim will be denied.
We plan to make a statement on or about June 1st regarding the Zidware claims. A statement will also be made as to the launch date of deeproot. A date we’ve spent a lot of time ensuring will be met this time.
Lastly, I agree with Kaneda that it is not fair that people are holding money back from making other purchases (pinball or otherwise) expecting us to imminently launch. We won’t be. I’ve said two things from the beginning. Pinball is easy; everything that goes into making pinball is not. We will launch when we are ready, and no sooner.
— Robert, dT

Well if delivery isn’t coming by June 30 then I’m rolling my claim to whenever it is.

I’m sure most people appreciate the “goodwill” effort and so do I

After all, it’s pinball machines that we want

#3347 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

If I ever get to a point in my life where I have nothing better to do than to get hammered 5x a week while picking fights on Pinside, I hope someone just takes me out behind the barn and puts me out to pasture.

#3348 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

TWIP: As part of the Goodwill Terms on the web page, you state “deeproot Tech will deliver elected game(s) no later than June 30, 2019″. Is that when we can expect to see a deeproot pinball machine for sale?
dr: When the masterpiece is ready, we will let everyone know. By the very terms, that would be the latest date permitted.

There is actually a clause in the contract that would allow the credit to roll forward if you don't choose the cash option.

#3350 1 year ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

Then if you did not like any of the initial Deeproot game choices offered, you could wait and apply the credit to a later game.

Or maybe this is not true, since this information did not come directly from Robert.

DR has to "deliver" games either in person or to a shipper by June 30th. 3 games are supposed to be presented for selection 30 days prior.

If "delivery" doesn't occur by June 30th then "customer" is entitled to compensation in the amount of the "cumulative deposit". Customer will have the option within 180 days from "Delivery date" to roll the credit forward by submitting the request in writing.

I'm just reading directly from the contract. Pretty simple.

Robert actually reached out to some people like myself to get the agreements in before May 31st, which i had forgotten about. And he didn't have to do that.

#3353 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The way you described things there is no penalty for Deeproot being late. Either they return deposits or hold deposits at owner’s request for later pin. In this case the best play is to request your money back. Once money is in hand, consider using it to buy a game that physically exists - one from JJP, CGC, Spooky, AP or Stern.
My understanding of the Deeproot agreement is much different, although I am not a claimant. In addition to your money returned, you are entitled to one of the games. So the penalty was Deeproot losing your $4600 deposit while still providing you a game a few weeks following availability. It was their promise to deliver said product by said date and this penalty provided confidence to those claimants, many of whom then ponied up $4k to Deeproot.
I could be dead wrong about this point, but it seems like a question mark. I also recall the agreement was about ten pages long and it contained much jargon (I was thinking while reading that maybe I wasn’t smart enough to be a Deeproot customer). Do we know how many claims were received? Guess 100 claims @ $5k per pin is $.5M of deposits to be returned and a penalty of $.5M when those games are eventually built.

We started out with nothing until DR came along and brought in Jpop like him or not

If one had $5k with Jpop, you get your $5k deposit with him from DR per the agreement

That’s a lot better than a poke in the eye

#3357 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Isn't there also an option to just have DP pay you back your JPop deposit if they're not shipping games on-schedule??

That’s upon default of non delivery by June 30th. Within 60 days. Full cash refund

I prefer a pinball machine regardless of having to wait. I’ve gotta a lot of experience in waiting

#3359 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

What’s the line on the races today? I want a $3 trifecta ticket on what gets delivered first. You have production schedules, right? I’ll bet Alien fully redesigned and with B/W parts followed by Deeproot Pinball #1 followed by TBL shipping to EA’s - all crossing the line by Christmas 2019. I figure if the odds are 1 in a million, $3M ought to be enough to retire. On the other hand, I can afford to lose $3 and realize I am flushing money down the toilet at the onset.

Yeah, who knows

#3370 1 year ago
Quoted from RobT:

Even if that's true, that does not explain what the consideration given by Zidware buyers to Deeproot is.

Well I'll let Robert chime in if he wants to, per the agreement, I'm not gonna quote the exact language.

#3391 1 year ago
Quoted from RobT:

So it all comes down to goodwill. And that's great, but man, it sure seems like they are paying an awful lot for that goodwill.

There really aren't that many claimants i don't think. I think the max was 85 per their count? No idea how many took advantage of it. Maybe 15 or 20 at the time i sent mine in?

"$10 and other good and valuable consideration" The sufficiency of consideration is not an issue in the State of Texas. "Parties agree", a meeting of the minds"/

2 weeks later
#3456 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

At least he didn't charge you for using you or your likeness. Not to forget you and him delivering or setting up games.
LTG : )

My all time favorite Lloyd. Ben and Jpop were going to come to our homes for the DIY kit game and help set it all up!

Hey Ben, no offense but your "likeness" on a pin isn't something you can take to the bank

#3630 1 year ago

Stern, JJP, Spooky, AP, DR...etc.

They are all here, in the pinball space, to make a PROFIT

That's why JJP has pulled back from WOZ despite Jack saying this will be the "beginning and everything after will be much better"

This is NOT Pinball socialism. They aren't here to do our bidding and kiss our collective asses and hand out FREE SHIT. F ing comical

Gerry and P3, with all the transformational pinball change hasn't made a dime of PROFIT yet. I hope they succeed. But the "paradigm shift" most likely isn't going to happen in time.

The idea that Stern makes games for $3k and is ripping off people is STUPID, and comes from people that don't have a F ing clue about numbers and financials. Stick to marketing because you flunked accounting classes. LOL

Use some COMMON SENSE people, sales have to BLOW UP to have a chance to succeed and make a PROFIT with DR or any other pinball machine manufacturer.

The "FIXED OVERHEAD" keeps clicking and ticking every day, 24/7

It might be "laughable" to some, but the numbers have to add up and accountability can be a bitch when the day of reckoning comes

#3631 1 year ago

There is no magic silver bullet to make this shit happen. It's not a "mystery".

Show me some financials as a potential investor today?

RAZA has been promised for 5 yrs now.

Is it really that difficult to get one game out there? Spooky does it.

DR better sell a shitload of every "ten's of pinball games" they make.

How is it that everybody F ing hates Stern, JJP, Spooky etc. and DR is gonna roll in and save the day?

I don't know, show me the results, not the bullshit rhetoric.

"ROI" equals Return on Investment.

Is that "funny"?

#3635 1 year ago

YouTube is worth max $5 per 1,000 views

Seems like it makes sense to get out WAY beyond the current pinball universe.

#3639 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

I'm here for the free shit.
LTG : (

If anybody deserves "free shit" its you Lloyd for all you do to help everybody!

2 weeks later
#3746 1 year ago
Quoted from Methos:

How exactly would deeproot Capital Management benefit from if they fail? How do "sleazy accountants" make this work?

They don't. Some of the most idiotic commentary on Pinside.

Is it surprising? No, because there are some dumb ass idiots on here.

DR better sell a shit load of pins or there will be a lot of people F ed.

The "write off" angle is pure stupidity.

2 weeks later
#3919 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Why criticize your former partner Jpop?

I’m staying in myself for the reasons I started out with from day one.

I’m a pinball guy and it’s been a LONG journey

I’m ready to see what RAZA will turn out to be

#3923 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Btw, it’s easy to chime in now

The time to say something was years ago before people got F Ed

1 week later
#4073 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Stay out of it Robert. I consider your comments to be providing shitty human behavior without a license!

Robert obviously is clueless on the PR front Billy. I agree, he should keep his mouth shut

Yes he had his IP lawyer, my old friend’s firm, call me a few yrs ago to tamp down the online rhetoric

I don’t take it personal and could care less

What they did was offer a lifeline to all the Jpop survivors

I and many others will be made whole

The litigators will NOT. EVER. Thx to a stupid strategy they took

I have chosen to roll my measly $4500 into a game instead of taking the cash

So I don’t care if he’s a dick or not. It’s not personal

#4074 1 year ago

The secret litigation group have NOTHING except wasted legal fees as I advised yrs ago

I feel bad for Bruce Z because he’s a lawyer and at least gave it a shot

The other nameless dopes that led people down the wrong path should be ashamed of themselves

#4077 1 year ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

I rolled the dice and deiced to wait it out (agreement signed). I'm originally out $4,750, however, Robert & Co. have some cool things on the horizon.
So... I'm in on the the 2nd round.

Smart move. And we had a CHOICE didn't we?

#4078 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

That is what I hope for. You and the others get great games for your money and for your wait.
LTG : )

Well i had written it off a few years ago Lloyd. Thx for the well wishes.

I could have gotten a full refund of my initial $$ paid to Jpop today, like everyone else

That's a pretty damn good deal imho

#4081 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm going to reframe this.
The litigation group WON their judgment against John. He's the deadbeat who won't pay, and countersued them. John deserves all the jeers he gets at any pinball show he appears at.
The lawsuit was with Zidware and John, not deeproot. John lost.
My RAZA game order is with Zidware. John spent all of my money and lied to me about the progress until it was too late. I didn't sue him, but he still deserves all the jeers he gets at any pinball show he appears at on behalf of customers like myself who lost their money that was paid to him in good faith.
There's only one person who should be ashamed of themselves. Not the victims.

Have to disagree with you Frolic

The point is Deeproot gave Jpop people a lifeline

If you didn’t take it you have NOtHING

If people were butthurt because they hired John then so be it. At least they tried to make us whole

You can still hate John and get paid back at the same time

#4085 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I know you're waiting on deeproot to make games, but have you heard reports of anyone that took the cash back option receiving their refunds? Assuming that's happened, what an incredible outcome for them. Meanwhile you're still coming off as a dick to the people that decided to sue JPop, when you should probably be thanking them. Think deeproot would have made the offer it did if it wasn't trying to bail that deadbeat out of the legal mess he made for himself?

Well, this has been YEARS in the making and the raft of shit that i and others have taken over Jpop spills over the edges every now and then. It's the longest running and most toxic drama arguably in pinball history. A lot of shit has been said and slung over the years.

It's rooted in personal past discussions and many prior comments directed my way and the "dickish" comment was aimed at really just one person, based on that entire history and body of dialogue!

I am EXCITED and HAPPY for everybody that will get restitution.

As for receiving actual funds, the form that everybody received gave us the option on how to receive it if we chose that option, bank wire, check etc...

Elections have to be in by the end of the month i think.

#4086 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

From reports there’s not that many zidware customers getting anything from Deeproot. If the offer was meant to rehabilitate John’s reputation some way it will be about as successful as John rehabbing his reputation from shipping magic girl.

What do you mean there "aren't that many zidware customers getting anything from Deeproot"?

If you had spent money with John you are getting back in the form or cash or a game/games

#4089 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

We know that the lawsuit group is not included and then we also know that people like myself who chose not to sign legal forms when nothing had been shown. And still nothing shown And the offers ended last year.

Why would you not sign up with nothing to lose?

Quoted from wcbrandes:

Ice, that's not entirely true!

Well Billy, your situation is certainly somewhat unique!

At least we will actually see a RAZA game at completion after all this time?

2 months later
#5019 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

I agree on that. Promising cash AND giving it to the people JPop screwed shows some very goodwill and is quite unheard of in the long history of pre orders screw up.
It doesn't leave much doubt on Robert's pocket depth. Where there is questions, I believe, is in his ability to build pinballs (And I won't even enter the consideration of building pinballs that relegates every single pinball maker to the stone age, and their clients to be suckers who bought crap).
I guess, writing a check is easy, unlike building pinballs !

Well I had the opportunity to receive a check or wait for a game. I chose the game because you have to respect the effort these guys are making.

It’s public record under the Reg D filing with the SEC and as of last week they have raised over $32 million dollars thus far in their equity raise

It’s capital creation and jobs with “accredited investor” money that was sitting on the sidelines. That’s a good thing

Pinball might be hard but with all that talent and money I’m hoping the results will be worth the wait

#5021 1 year ago
Quoted from adol75:

So they have raised another 15 million recently ? I’d be curious to know at what valuation.
What’s becoming clearer is that they dont plan on only making pinballs otherwise putting 30 million on the table to sell pinballs is a total nonsense.

Yeah not bad since last years filing.

It obviously can’t be all about pinball. The original offering was for $35 million and it looks like they upped it to $37.5 million

1 month later
#5142 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

deeproot investor talking to his tax advisor-
"So how much of this can I write off anyway?"

Put the pipe down Odin.

1 week later
#5215 1 year ago

How many of you have paid a deposit on a DR pin?

How many of you have gotten reimbursed on the Jpop disaster from DR?

I took the pin versus a lesser cash benefit. Others took the cash and got PAID

Anyone bitching about DR coming soon has ZERO credibility other than they are either bored to tears like Odiner with nothing else to do all day but opine on Pinside.

It's not long now. The pitchforks are just getting warmed up for the haters no matter what. F ing hilarious because all you geniuses know wtf is going on.

I'm LMAO right now while i eat a bowl of chili.

#5226 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

You don’t have to hope. Iceman’s definitely drinking beers with that chili, and almost certainly harder stuff as well. His liver has filed numerous restraining orders on him.

Lol. I NEVER drink the harder stuff. Maybe tequila once a year. My liver is great, along with all of my other numbers

Beer and chili are Texas staples as Pinballmaniac knows

Throw in some jalapeños, on everything, and you’ll live a long time!

Nobody disputes Robert acted like a grade A jerk early on. He’s a lawyer, I think he’s learned his lesson

#5245 1 year ago

I was in area visiting a client and drove by DR offices today

Def not in manufacturing ramp mode

#5254 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Hey when is that Alien Vault coming again?

Next week. Lolololololol................!

Yet you won't allow me to double up my original beer bet because you are a hater and STERN apologist and Supreme lover!!!

Don't disappear on me big boy. Announced and delivered before yr end.

#5255 1 year ago

I did see a few Illinois plates. Approx. 20 cars front and back in that HUGE facility.

#5256 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Next week. Lolololololol.................suck it!
Yet you won't allow me to double up my original beer bet because you are a hater and STERN apologist and Supreme lover!!!
Come on CRAZY. That vault is going up your ............... so grab your ankles LOL
Don't disappear on me big boy. Announced and delivered before yr end.

WHERE ARE YOU CRAZY! LOL . You are the big mouth target i want to hit. That's what i thought. All talk.