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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread

By pin2d

2 years ago

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  • 11,341 posts - Hot topic!
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  • Latest reply 2 minutes ago by HighVoltage
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Topic index (key posts)

14 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (10 months ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (10 months ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (10 months ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (10 months ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (10 months ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (10 months ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (10 months ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (10 months ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider hank527.
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#419 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

Our only response to AP's post is that their statements are not true, they contradict their attorney's private statements, they contradict the contract they voluntarily drafted and entered into with John, and (as to the trademark) appear to contradict federal law. We are proceeding with John's original Houdini design but not the Houdini name; which is consistent with our prior statement.

Why? The design looks horrible. Please let us know what you may see in that design that makes anyone think they would buy it. It looks like that loop ramp results in an out lane drain, the ramp is way to tight, plus numerous other problems. Dennis and Barry are awesome designers and I cannot wait to see what they do, but I cannot imagine Dennis, Barry, or Jon thinking that design is worth anything.

2 months later
#823 2 years ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

If Dennis Nordman ever quits, there's your sign that DeepRoot is in deep shit because that's the red flag that EVERYONE missed with the whole Heighway Shit Show.

Are the signs aren't there now? The PR is abysmal and the constant threats against potential customerd are horrendous.

1 month later
#937 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

VERY interesting read! So, Pinball Scummers would not even give up Alien if Deeproot would make them. Sheesh!

I will never support anything related to Heighway or Pinball Brothers. I cannot support Jpop, but could support Deeproot if he departed them.

#945 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Or what if the stock market and economy tanks and we go into another deep recession?
This whole dream is living on borrowed time IMO.

Oh I think this is coming as a trade war will certainly cause a recession.

#1020 2 years ago
Quoted from singapore_pin:

Yes, i can! Iron Maiden and TNA are the best examples. It is raining money for Stern and Spooky........We will miss the old fellas but will have little impact on the hobby.

When one of those old guys is Jpop then there is concern. What has he ever done right in pinball?

2 weeks later
#1026 2 years ago
Quoted from dnaman:

Wow, did I shut this thread down with mention of JPOP?

Because he is awful for Pinball and no one will buy any future games he is associated with.

#1028 2 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

If they ship an awesome next generation pinball machine merging modern GPU's, network connectivity and classic pinball, with world class service and support, I don't care who they have on staff.
It just comes down to how awesome they make their pinball machines. And how awesome their themes are. How they support customers.
It's already a win that they aren't using customers to fund the company.

Only because that model is dead. Jpop is toxic.

#1033 2 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

Ok. But what about the 30 other people working there pouring their heart into a new machine?
One bad apple doesn’t influence my overall opinion of a company.

I do not care. If Jpop is on the payroll, I will not support them. If a company emoyed someone who did harm to you, would you support them?

#1047 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

They are employing someone who did harm to me. JPOP screwed me out of my money for RAZA! Deeproot hired him and they are going to give me a free game for my lost money. You're damn right I'm going to support them.

What's a bigger olive branch than assuming ownership of JPOP's pissed off customers, and giving them a free game?
Other than Pisiders needing something to be pissed about, I just don't get the angst here. If they hired JPOP and said F U to previous owners by asking them to buy one of his new games, I would totally get it. But that's not what they're doing. They're building games without taking money from anyone (whether that's successful or not remains to be seen) and in the process they're giving restitution to the people John screwed over. What the hell is there in that to be upset about?

Hey now they are giving me a big FU in that those of us who took Jpop to court got the big FU treatment. Then Jpop counter sues because he claims if he had gotten the full money from everyone that he could have made the games. I'm sorry but Im not buying any of this free game crap.

#1092 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

I was actually trying to ask an honest question that always puzzles me about posts on Pinside. My apologies if you felt it was provoking.

I thought it was trying to provoke.

Heighway, Kevin Kulek, Jpop all took money from people and failed to deliver games. They knew exactly what they were doing and still continued along with the big charade. Nuff said.

#1094 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I’m inferring that you are saying they knew exactly what they were doing in taking people’s money... not in delivering games, because they sure as hell didn’t know what they were doing in terms of getting games delivered...

Yes, that is correct. None of those three should ever be able to be associated with pinball again.

#1138 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Houdini would be an odd choice. American Houdini is already out. Big risk to have a machine compared to something already established, and pretty good. And for the fans of the Houdini theme, do they expect them to buy 2 expensive machines?

Houdini would be a horrible choice. People with the AP game will probably not want two games of the same theme. Then it's Jpop so some will not buy because of that. Third, it's not a great theme. Change the name to Magic Theatre or The Magician or Magicians.

#1174 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but we have way too many amazing projects to worry about. Houdini or anything like it, is not amongst those.
—Robert / dT

That's great news.

2 months later
#1535 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

deeproot is announcing the addition of Steven Bowden to its ‘Future Worlds with deeproot Pinball’ seminar panel at 5:15pm on Friday 10/19 at Pinball Expo.
Steve has only been with us for six weeks but has pounded out more ingenious rule script than the best in the biz. It’s been a treat to see a master at work.
— Robert dT

Okay, this is a good hire. Steve is awesome. Now you just need to shed that Zidware

3 months later
#2268 1 year ago

Can I get a GoFundMe for winning a game from JP and having his 4 highest creditors come over for this magic event?

3 weeks later
#2374 1 year ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I definitely get the anger and hate, I personally lost a lot to the whole ordeal.
However, I don't think JPop should continue to be chastised so much. He definitely screwed up, and obviously has issues, but he's never thrown his hands up and said fuck it. He's continued to look for some kind of solution to get what he's promised done. He could have very easily just done what SkitB, Heighway, VonnieD, and Dutch have done and just walked away. He continued to try to get the games built though, to the point of getting two different, new pinball manufacturers involved.
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
Quality Board Work - In Home Service

What? He never admitted he was wrong or apologized for any of it.

He should not be working and I will not buy anything from deep root with his name on it. F him and his noodling and crappy persona.

1 month later
#2553 1 year ago


1 week later
#2577 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

They solved a problem no one has.

Probably another Jpop dumbass thing.

2 weeks later
#2949 1 year ago
Quoted from deeproot:

Hehe. I was sitting and standing right next to you. You could have just asked me
—Robert dT
PS adol75: I’ve already answered that on 2 podcasts

When will you get smart and fire Jpop?

#3135 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts about the Jpop hate in this thread. For me, I’m mostly over it and I have better reasons than most to be angry. I’m continuing along with my lawsuit against the man and I do seek justice. But at this point I’m weary of my posturing in the past and I’m especially tired of these useless, drive-by, Pinside out bursts of hate. Example, the non-sequitur comment a few pages back about Deeproot needing to fire Jpop.
One of the reason I mention this is because I sense an evolution of improving attitudes here towards Jpop. It seems to me that more and more people are now speaking up in supporting John. And I get it, as I see reasons to support him and Deeproot too.
Anyway, I find the recent attitude change here interesting from where we began long ago, along with my own evolution.
Whether I collect my judgment against Jpop in time or not, I intend to purchase a RAZA or other Deeproot machine, pending inspection and production of course. - Do as you like but those are my thoughts.
Note: I still hate Whysnow. Hopefully I can maintain some street cred with that.

Sorry he burnt his bridges and I despise him and will never like him. His overall attitude is poison and that's contagious in an organjzation. The sooner the cancer is caught, the better. Jpoop is cancer in this industry.

#3217 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You aren’t in the lawsuit are you Fulltilt?
Hopefully you took the credit?

The credit is still nothing unless something gets made. Robert has not paid Cointaker like he promised, so I'm pesimistic on the entire thing.

#3226 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Just a reminder
Kimmy called us “losers” Hank
He got his MG, made his “profit” off of you and me Hank and Fulltilt
Whatever. He told me he was a “winner” and we were the losers?
Hmmmm. I wonder if Mr transparency wants to post the PM?
Who cares, life is too short to worry about that garbage
Chump change for chumps
Regardless, a “credit” is worth 1000x more than some BS lawsuit

We all have opinions and I'm good with everyone's. We can all disagree and that's okay if it poses a good point, or educates others.

To my best knowledge none of us can predict the future, but my educated guess is anything with Jon's name on it will fail.

#3262 1 year ago

I'll bet $100.00 to one person that we do not see a shipped game before September 2019, any takers?

Then $50.00 to one person that we so not see a working game shipped by December 2019.

#3264 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRob:

I’ll give $2 to one person to explain the $50 bet to me.

$50 that Deeproot does not ship games by December 2019.

#3401 1 year ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Well, seeing as how you made this bold offer and then never responded when I took you up on it, I'm assuming you were just blowing hot air. So bet is off unless I hear from you. Probably a good thing for me after Deeproots last post here. Clearly they are nowhere near ready.

We can bet with the payment to charity. I've not been checking this thread lately as I'm not surprised by the missed deadlines.

#3410 1 year ago

Just PM me when time comes. I like giving to local food banks.

2 weeks later
#3470 1 year ago

3 types of companies exist

Product Oriented
Client Focus

Deeproot is Product Oriented? They sure are not Client Focus or Logistics.

They can have the attitude, but with that comes an increased expectation from us.

I'm still burnt by Jpoop suing and screwing some of us.

2 weeks later
#3712 1 year ago
Quoted from NoQuarters:

Looks like nothing new here. Maybe will check back again in a few more months.
Time marches on.

Jpop is noodling.

1 month later
#4191 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Here's a deeproot topic:
Some pin friends and I were discussing that the only plausible explanation for the number of games under development there is some sort of modular swap system. Otherwise the cash being spent is being wasted. Discuss.

The patent may be a clue on that. I cannot fathom what they are up to.

3 months later
#5969 10 months ago

Not buying anything associated with Jpop.

#6076 10 months ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

A few minutes of gameplay video including zombie multiball.

Ramp shot is horrible.

#6100 10 months ago
Quoted from rai:

dear me watching the videos, the pin looks as bad as in RZ, Jetsons, MG front he looks of the videos I've watched.
Also if the game plays that bad (in show players hands) then I think DeepRoot should have put out a real promo video under controlled situations with shot being made (I mean like a 2 minus montage of shots being made). Put your best foot forward, you never have a second chance to make a first impression. At least RZ had the benefit of being sold out where this game will have to sell on peoples playing and word of mouth.
Hopefully this is a prototype and will be reworked so the ramps are easily made. Too many excellent choices out there.

Hoping the non jpop games are good. This one is a fail. A big fail.

#6111 10 months ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

My hope is that the Oursler, Nordman and Norris machines are in a much better state.
Whilst I assume this is further along with audio visual assets than others, as they seem to be leading with it ... if this represents the most advanced stage they've reached with a game in terms of shooting it, that's extremely worrying.
Being charitable, maybe they just feel obligated to show this, because of the Zidware settlement agreement?

I feel others always helped Jpop make a better game. Several designers have hinted Jpop was always a mess and others tweaked his games. In fact, several say he has taken credit for games others have designed.

I have to believe this as none of his Zidware stuff was ever completed and Magic Girl shoots like crap.

#6559 10 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Oh dear, a post based on sensible reasoned observation and knowledge!! ... but wait, no, pinsiders in this deeproot bashing joke "boutique" pinball thread won't have that! . How will the stern fan club deal with such reason? ... my bet is there will be dozens douche bag trollers come along and downvote the above post, and start waving around pitchforks in a rage of disgust!!
Heck this post on it's own will probably get a 4 to 1 DV ratio from the troll sector on it's own! ... in a thread like this, that is merely a compliment
The thread is more a joke than valid information (everyone goes elswhere for info with validity). Seems to be why most are here.... stiring crap and entertainment

Please go away with your b.s. babble. You refuse to see the truth in what RM and Deeproot currently is. I'm anxious to see other designs when the owner matures.

#6601 10 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Then, after alot of hassles and effort by someone people bag, JpoPs victims were finally, literally, Deep Rooted! (but in a more loving kinda way ) .... they get something back, thanks to RM.
People have the right to be offended... or not be offended.
I'm optimistic. Not offended.
RM ....

This is wrong on so many levels. Jpop is a crook who stole money. RM hired a crook and took the designs that others funded. RM and Jpoop are equally wrong here.

Go ask Cointaker how RM is paying him back after repeated promises to do so.

1 month later
#6952 9 months ago

How can they release RAZA when they do not own the IP?

#6956 9 months ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Very interesting question/observation!

Yes, from my understanding the creditors of Zidware own it. Maybe Cointaker has the largest share. I do not know. Though I do not think Deeproot owns the IP. I do not see how they can own it.

#6972 9 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

Nice analysis. Answers some questions.
A scroll through the list of creditors (dozens and dozens of them) really paints a picture of the harm jpop delivered to the pinball community.

I do not think it sums up correctly. Deeproot was late to the game. Other creditors were owed money way before Deeproot. I really di not believe Deeproot owns the rights to those games. We all have agreements signed by Jpoop before deeproot came into being.

1 week later
#7044 8 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Deeproot will never make money if the monthly burn is what Robert says it is. The investors are either forced or too dumb to care. Do the math figure out what the burn is and how many games they would have to sell a month just to break even. give them a 2k profit per machine I don't care its virtually impossible. Now add that monthly burn up for their current existence and spread it over say 10,000 machines a's a joke. Msybe they will compete with the big content providers or video game developers etc lol, give me a break they cant even come close to release dates of one machine let alone the amount Robert was spewing off at the mouth. Also how many people have they pissed off that wont even look at a game or support due to negativity he projects on all other pinball companies. I have never seen a business so poorly launched in my life.

Well said though I think Vonnie D holds the record for best craptastic launch. Deeproot is a close 2nd!!

3 months later
#8203 5 months ago

I gave JP money for RAZA. I was never repaid and the court ordered Jpop to pay up. Since i was never paid, I feel I own some of RAZA and would ask Deeproot to kindly pay me back for the percentage of the assets I now own on RAZA. Otherwise I'm going to try and block the launch.

They are trying to release a game they do not own the rights to.

#8206 5 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Since you allready ruled out accepting deeproots proposal of getting the game or money from them, it's a horrible idea to "block the launch" and with it to block generating income out of wich JPop may repay his debt to you.

Jpop will never pay his debt as he still feels he's done nothing wrong. Deeproot is using assets some of us funded. I fully plan on litigating this further. Shame on them. It will bite them in the ass.

3 weeks later
#8465 4 months ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Lol, I only see strong Statements when I read your posts.
Both AP and JJP rely on financial backing. JJP is held alive by some private Investors who allready "saved" the company.
If they decide they don't want to further invest in the company, what will happen?

I think some of this is common sense. How much debt do each of these companies have? What do future cash flows look like?

All of it is not good. At best, we are 2 to 3 months away from many places opening where pinball machines are located. Then many of us have reduced income so the home market is not going to be nearly as strong. I'm not buying games until my income comes back. I'm now more of a seller if anyone is interested.

Forget about pinball shows in short term as well.

We know these statements to be logical.

Now the only conclusion one can draw is we will see some companies struggle and possibly go under.

How bad will it be is the main question.

If I had to bet on anyone, it would be Spooky and Stern as both companies can go very nimble, if needed.

3 weeks later
#8499 4 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Oh boy I hope that countdown clock starts ticking again!

Does anyone care at this point? All we get is noise and empty promises.

4 weeks later
#8650 3 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Such a hilarious post, just like many others.

Deeproot is a joke anymore.

1 week later
#8735 81 days ago
Quoted from doghouse:

Yeah, I was a Zidware customer. Going to email Robert.

Hoping you get a response.

#8740 75 days ago

Octo manufacturing should be the breakthrough needed to pay back all those ripped off by Jpoop.

#8746 73 days ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Strange, they were ready to go earlier for the Texas Pinball festival right?


1 month later
#9355 17 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Interesting that you speak for most people. I buy new games and stopped buying Sterns because of quality. I care deeply about licenses and themes. I'm excited for the hammer test, the logo and jpop. I'm their target audience and I have cash to burn.

I'd be excited if it weren't for that piece of dung Jpoop.

#9359 17 days ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Be excited for there is more than just JPOP working there. Dennis had 2 themes in the works before leaving and sounds like Barry has 5 themes in the work.

And Dennis left Heighway before they crashed and burned. Its a sign.

2 weeks later
#9825 3 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

Not long now, even the haters gotta be a tiny tiny bit excited
I think it will be more then just RAZA...

Oh no. I would need a ton of lube as John already fd me in the tookus. Not excited at all for the attitude or the lack of talent and rip off artist John. Only in pinball can someone do this crap and get a pass!

#10762 1 day ago

I'd give them another pass as we have a good 6 months to see more noodling.

I'm curious what those paper shreds are on the touch screen.

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