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(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

14 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (1 year ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (10 months ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (10 months ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (10 months ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (10 months ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (10 months ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (10 months ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (10 months ago)

Post #6724 RAZA Gameplay video Posted by DS_Nadine (10 months ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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-2
#146 2 years ago

money and legalese talks.
both jim and jeremy reaching resolutions.

perhaps this new found money and legal team will enable JPOP to enforce any pinball patents he may have acquired during the past few years. another win for innovation.

#150 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think the one contentious patent is the "switch near lcd screen"

thats the one. and upon researching its approval process, i believe he was denied once or twice, but he continued to reapply/resubmit until it was granted.

Quoted from frolic:

things like Ghostbusters hologram and Quantum Theater.

and just about everything else that involves the future use of OLEDs/LCD/similar in pinball machines.

Quoted from frolic:

if he [John] starts trying to enforce patents that negatively affect other pinballs.

unfortunately, it wont be John who is doing the enforcing.

#156 2 years ago

hard to believe it was granted.
three non-final rejections and one final rejection during the process.

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

enter application number: 13/709056

[may take a while for site to respond]

select "transaction history" from the menu.

for the description,
choose "public documents" then select either "view".
images can be accessed from "images" button at bottom of page.
select "full pages" from left margin.
for me, images worked in chrome, but not IE browser.

best access for both images and description.

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?PageNum=0&docid=09707471&IDKey=74EE409D4018%0D%0A&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft1.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D9707471.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F9707471%2526RS%3DPN%2F9707471

1 month later
#210 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Which guy is Robert?

Hilton.
to help humor your insatiable appetite to know who people are,
let me help you by eliminating four of the staff members for you.

deeprootteam02 (resized).jpg

-1
#290 2 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

How about Heighway Pinball?
Will we ever see HP pinball game #3?
Who's left there as a pinball designer?

sanders01.jpg

2 weeks later
#557 2 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

We will be taking a hammer to every PF.

flexible OLED playfields are coming.
see hammer test below.

does the P3's playfield screen concept already teeter on obsolescence?

cutting holes in the playfield for mechs? no problem.

1 week later
#588 2 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

You can buy a 55” OLED TV for like 800 bucks

as robotoes pointed out, there is a vast difference in price between flexible OLEDs and the tech used in OLED televisions. while flexible OLEDs offer considerable potential/promise for pinballs, their use is not practical at this time due to cost.

5 months later
#1106 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

He clarifies that his goal is to streamline pinball design and manufacturing. His goal isn't to take Stern down, he just wants to build great pinball in the most cost effective way... a new company building from scratch would have a fresh approach.

im pro deeproot. its nice to see more attitudes swinging in that direction.
re: manufacturing, hes right about how ugly current upstarts and recent failed attempts are making/have made the industry look. years to production [if at all] and slow ramp ups being the norm.

Quoted from JodyG:

After listening to the interview, I hope Deeproot does disrupt the market a bit.

If deeproot delivers an exciting NIB experience when it comes to game features, price, and delivery times, companies whose customers are waiting up to a year for delivery of games designed by less experienced designers are going to be at risk. the competition needs to begin rewriting parts of their playbook starting now, before its too late and they 'wonder' what happened.

Quoted from JodyG:

I am imagining some kind of internet connectivity to these games as being the one way they are going to do it.

im old school. good shooter, good price; it doesn't need to be fancy. im hoping for a variety of playing experiences to be delivered through software. dynamic graphics on the pf [oleds] and holography might be ok. personally, ill be disappointed if internet, video, LCD graphics are a main selling point of their games.

no more quad assembly for robert, octo assembly is where its at now.

octoassembly.jpg

Quoted from OnTheSnap:

Had a good laugh in a previous podcast when Joe mentioned he kept increasing the orders on Thunderbirds making him eat crow.

despite whatever benefits/advances homepin has made in assembly/construction, they've failed to deliver on gameplay/playability with this title. this was discussed, with detailed reasoning, months ago in their main thread. whatever tweaks were made to the design since then were not enough to convince those at NWPAS; most reviews were tactfully negative. quick search found no comments on gameplay from last weeks NERG. there is a 9:00 gameplay video. perhaps subsequent layouts will be more worthy of discussion, but as it stands, expect TAG to be a non-factor.

#1116 2 years ago

K03 (resized).jpg

Quoted from Frippertron:

How can you not root deeply for these guys?

let me ROOT, ROOT, ROOT for the home team
if they don't win its a shame
for its one, two, three strikes [K] youre out
at the old ball game.

#1142 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Time for DR to go in another direction on their magical pin

Quoted from hank527:

Change the name to Magic Theatre or The Magician or Magicians

DR already has a magic pin in their lineup : magic girl.
do they really need a second one among their first four/five?
how about making one about a boy wizard?
or delve into bands pins with 'america'? because they can do magic.

2 weeks later
-1
#1378 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

could deeproot be a cult?

What is really going on inside that building??
Is Robert washing brains and reprogramming his believers?

how many wives does he have?
whats the real reason behind making bible themed pins?

im sure robert doesnt appreciate being lumped together with the likes of david koresh, even if waco is only 180 miles from san antonio.

1 week later
#1414 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Tits are overrated, give me ass any day!

3 months later
#2214 1 year ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

with no capacity to produce more games, what is the economic benefit?

what is the capacity requirement for a game that isnt production ready for ~8 months after people were told production was to begin? 0 for those 8 months. what are the economic benefits of having interest-free use of hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-refundable deposits for nearly a year before production actually begins?

3 months later
#2653 1 year ago
Quoted from gliebig:

It all folds up and fits in your fanny pack for easy transport.

3 weeks later
#3174 1 year ago
Quoted from Brijam:

But I do think one reason we come here is to look out for one another, point out red flags that we see... overpromising mostly

well, that depends on whose red flags you are talking about.

redflag01 (resized).jpg

Quoted from Brijam:

Of fucking course it makes a person's /arguments/ more valid if they're coming from someone in the industry.

Appeal to authority is a common type of fallacy, or an argument based on unsound logic. When writers or speakers use appeal to authority, they are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject.

in addition, what if said industry stalwart is making statements intend to cover up/mislead. they could simply be telling you what you want to hear, without regard to truth/feasibility.

1 month later
#3438 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

throw in some art teases...

#3478 1 year ago

We can never know about the days to come
But we think about them anyway
And I wonder if I'm really with you now
Or just chasin' after some finer day

Anticipation, anticipation
Is makin' me late
Is keepin' me waitin'

#3544 1 year ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

Who is their graphic designer!?

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#3551 1 year ago

its amazing how many of you overreact to comments that are on par with breaking a fingernail.

brokenfingernail01 (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
10
#3704 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Yes it can be frustrating to see words spelled incorrectly but it doesn't change their message

Quoted from NoQuarters:

Time marches on.

thyme weights four know juan.

#3827 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

She's a fucking Martian what is wrong with you people?

'my favorite martian' contemplates deeproots future.

myfavoritemartian01 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#4019 1 year ago

the other day some of you were trying to tell the deeproot story through the use of proverbs. is that even possible?

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Learn to walk before you run.

Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

Don’t bite off more than you can chew.

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

A leopard doesn’t change its spots.

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

The show must go on.

Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Better late than never.

Every dog has his day.

Good things come to those who wait.

It’s not over till it’s over.

You can’t win them all.

Get out while the getting is good.

Half a loaf is better than none.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
proverbs02 (resized).jpg

#4023 1 year ago
Quoted from starfighter:

I'm thinking of doing a run of t-shirts with "10K by Christmas" on the back.

10Kchristmas (resized).jpg
#4050 1 year ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

the standard for the PF area has gone down.
Which area of the pin is more important?

it is a shame there are so few pinball playing purists here. the majority come across as just art and toy collectors. its as if they are playing an entirely different game, hoping not to get stuck with a forgery.
masterpiece01 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#4166 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

a list of those considered untouchable and of such elevated status/celebrity, they are above reproach by us commoners. Given my previous lack respect for those of elevated status/celebrity,

how about starting your own list?

untouchables03 (resized).jpg
20
#4189 1 year ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Couple of others bet them on the ejection list.

toteboard03 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#4260 1 year ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

Within the 86 pages, you have less than 10 interresting posts.

a part of his point is ...
how many does robert have?

#4262 1 year ago

interesting posts, not just posts.

#4317 1 year ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Now deeproot is going to build those elusive dimple-resistant wood playfields.

my recollection is that it was kinda/sorta guaranteed.

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

In this interview deeproot says that every playfield will be hit with a sledgehammer and if it leaves a mark the playfield will be rejected.

Quoted from deeproot:

On the sledgehammer, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but not a metaphor. Warranty for PF will be unheard of, so we take its durability seriously.

#4319 1 year ago
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#4323 1 year ago
bleedingmoney (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
#4566 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Recently watched an episode of the "Prince from Bel Air"

Quoted from DS_Nadine:

I meant the show with Will Smith.

kool and the gang will help you complete the shows title.

1 week later
#4723 1 year ago
aiwsketch (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
#4887 1 year ago
whereispaulfaris01 (resized).jpg
#4893 1 year ago

"winky-dink and you" was the pioneer in interactive programming. The core of the program was children sent away for a kit. The kit had a plastic screen that stuck to the TV tube with static electricity. Crayons were used to draw on the screen. When a character needed special help, children would be asked to draw on the screen, give assistance and free the character from trouble. If a character needed to cross a river with no bridge, the viewer would draw a line so a crossing could be made and escape trouble. Jack Barry, the host, emphasized inviting a friend over to watch the program; sharing in the drawing of assistance was also important. Everyone watched and helped winky-dinky in his adventures and HAD FUN.

#4894 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Here’s an Impressionism oil painting I did in Central Park recently.

cool.

heres another by Canadian John Saarniit from 1966 titled "Koduteel". the sheep remind me of

artsaarniit (resized).jpg
12
#4901 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

"We will ship more art in 2019 than any other pinball manufacturer ever!"

art4sale02 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#4941 1 year ago

claritinclear01 (resized).jpg

Common side effects include:

headache,
sleepiness,
feeling tired,
drowsiness,
fatigue,
nervousness,
stomach pain,
diarrhea,
dry mouth,
sore throat,
hoarseness,
eye redness,
blurred vision,
nosebleed, or
skin rash.

2 weeks later
#5062 11 months ago

someone should begin posting a countdown clock with how many days remain until the start of houston arcade expo on nov 15, 2019, where a skeleton staff will debut deeproots raza prototype.

"only 38 more days until houston arcade expo."

then again, you could just go arcadecenter.com, where you will find a countdown clock already at the top of their website.

1 month later
#5830 10 months ago
robertplant.jpg
1 week later
#6754 10 months ago

its not too late for DR to consider a different direction

therazaskywalker (resized).png
1 month later
#7041 8 months ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Deeproot will never make money if the monthly burn is what Robert says it is... its virtually impossible... they cant even come close to release dates of one machine...

sounds like robert mueller and deeproot are behind the 8 ball.
deeprootbehindthe8ball (resized).jpg

#7059 8 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

hoping for them to be able to compete against Stern pros and knock a chunk off of their prices. If they can do that, then they can make a wave in the market.

deeproot is already making waves.

bonvoyage.gif
1 month later
#7480 7 months ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

They weren't demonstrating anything.

dem·on·strate

1. give a practical exhibition and explanation of (how a machine, skill, or craft works or is performed). give a demonstration of, show how something works, exhibit, display.

2. clearly show the existence or truth of (something) by giving proof or evidence.

3 weeks later
#7835 6 months ago
Quoted from noitbe1:

Humble tone.. not humble tone.. that’s the question.

good luck to robert mueller and the horse he rides in on.

still sounds like the best he will manage to do is to SHOW.
humbletonian (resized).jpg

#7841 6 months ago

if DR holds off for one more week, they could reveal on april fools day.

#7873 6 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

They probably ran smack into the reality of making pinball machines. One thing out of their control can gum up the works.

if TPF is cancelled over virus concerns, will DR even hold their on-site reveal? if not, that opportunity is lost/postponed. the saturated market conditions dont bode well for them either with GNR, TNMT, hot wheels, CGCremake being introduced AND 4.5 million dollars plus $addon still outstanding from ~700 RAM buyers. simply a very bad point in time to be introducing an additional game/manufacturer. factor in the impact of the economic/societal revamping currently underway and we have big trouble from little china.

im having a hard time seeing where the $$ and demand for RAZA will come from. liked the screen, but the gameplay and layout wernt very compelling. biggest beef: even if players can eventually make the complete whirly ramp once in a while and send the ball down the left return, the design of that plastic is ridiculous. covers/obscures the atomic lane, hides the duck shooting gallery, projects into the pf to dump the ball in front of the left sling, further impairing visibility. 18" of katana sword plastic that may rarely come into play - it shouldnt even be there. completing the ramp to the left should simply dump the ball into the squiggle track atop the center left plastic, which then feeds the left inlane.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Don't fret about the Launch... this is just the start! This is only a taste of what we are doing, there is plenty more to come (again.. more promises instead of more deliverables)

almost every one of roberts latest comments comes across as "we are still behind schedule".

Quoted from JodyG:

I'm more curious about what they will show for their manufacturing capability at launch.

its going to be super disappointing if DR is unable to demonstrate the ability to produce games at this point in time.

24
#7951 6 months ago

if you believe that deeproots 'chinese coronavirus' comment was racist, just wait until you see the menu choices for those attending the reveal.

drmenu (resized).png
#7955 6 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Omelet or omelette is the correct spelling.

they should give popaduik a spell checker. that way nordman wouldnt have to continue fixing johns mistakes for him.

2 months later
#8572 3 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

I keep hoping people start getting their games

hope is a good thing.
maybe the best of things.
and no good thing ever dies.

#8579 3 months ago
Quoted from okgrak:

Does anyone visit this thread out of anything other than morbid curiosity?

papadook (resized).jpg
2 months later
#8920 39 days ago

deeproots RM needs a new mantra :

"my way, or the heighway".

#8925 38 days ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

If Deeproot was on the Nasdaq they would be de-listed

look for deeproot 'under the counter' on the 'pink sheets'.

pinksheets (resized).jpg
#9004 33 days ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

At this point, if they could actually produce something "almost as good as a Stern" for "only a little more cost than a JJP" and can ship "almost as many as Spooky" - I'd give them a win.

got me thinking ... if deeproot produced 500-1000 of a single title each year they could be on par with every other manufacturer out there, except stern.

1 week later
#9127 23 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The ramp was a disaster

Quoted from Makakka:

when you dont make it you drop down half-way.

if robert indeed said hes looking to make at most 500 razas, that should tell you what he thinks of the games prospects. how many years old is that design now anyway? JPOP needs to look for inspiration somewhere other than the playground.

slide2 (resized).jpg
#9321 18 days ago
clarkgableshirleytempledimples (resized).jpg
#9322 18 days ago

deeproot finally bringing down the 'hammer'.

1 week later
#9588 8 days ago
roberttrustmeiknowwhatimdoing (resized).jpg
#9589 8 days ago

just released: the 'hammer tester' audition tapes.

who do you think got the job?

===============================

1] the moonlighting maitre d'

2] iron man

3] the big wind up

4] lumberjack wannabe

5] dust in the wind

#9958 2 days ago
Quoted from frolic:

If they crack "lower than a Stern Pro" pricing then they have something.

Quoted from proteus:

K Man is saying ... Pro will be 5k.

like a homepin thunderbirds.

#9965 2 days ago

are people who arent into pinball suddenly going to start buying machines because a new manufacturer offers games that feature a cinemascope screen, stainless this or that, better maintanence access, hammer-tested playfield, etc ? and as far as the existing community goes, even if deeproots 'innovations' strike a cord with them, dont be surprised if this plays out like "those are really nice. let me know when you are going to put them in a game that i actually want". even with improvements to the prototype displayed in houston, i cant see pinsiders lining up to buy RAZA. the game was not that compelling. actually, i suspect a fair number of people are already looking past RAZA wanting to know "whats next".

given the years deeproot has had to prepare for 09.21.20, dont be surprised should they have games ready to ship, show multiple titles, or disclose additional themes/licenses. at different points in time deeproot has indicated this is would be their M.O. at launch, therefore i wouldnt consider any of these as special or unexpected. if anything, it would be disappointing if they failed to deliver on these fronts.

this may be roberts best and possibly last opportunity to address the pin buying community before more people stop caring all together. this is effectively his 15 minutes of fame. should he let it go by with nothing more than a RAZA reveal with different trims - now that is something i would consider to be a surprise. in retrospect, monday may be looked upon as more of a non-event with little we havent seen/known already.

even though more choices/options may be good for the consumer, the lesser manufacturers appear to be facing a number of challenges when it comes to selling worthwhile numbers of NIB.

Quoted from kermit24:

How much hype does RAZA actually have?

zero02.gif
#10151 2 days ago

monday, monday
cant trust that day
monday, monday
sometimes it just turns out that way
oh monday morning
you gave me no warning of what was to be

every other day of the week is fine, yeah
but whenever monday comes
you can find me crying all of the time

#10257 1 day ago
Quoted from yancy:

Good thing about waiting a couple years is you're guaranteed the last laugh.

or a rick and morty in the 700's.

#10442 1 day ago

mrhand02 (resized).jpg

roberttrustmeiknowwhatimdoing (resized).jpg

#10443 1 day ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Didn't Nordman leave also?

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST ?

dennisnordman03 (resized).jpg
#10951 1 day ago

backbox inspiration: Sterilite Wastebasket 3.3 Gallon

sterilite1039wastebasket (resized).jpg
14
#11172 17 hours ago
Quoted from rai:

I believe they would be better to have delivered one game and not leak too much until the next games are ready.

in response to the two leaked RAZA images it appears deeproot felt compelled to lay most all their cards on the table, while still holding back on future playfield layouts and game mechs. it felt like in todays TWIP article we got at least 4 of the 5 days of deeproot. probably not the worst idea. at least we now know what they are trying to do, and people now have something tangible to talk about rather than just speculate.

while you may not care for the appearance/implementation of the touch screen pinbar, its functionality could be pretty significant. for one, allowing players to conveniently modify, adjust, and switch rule sets/settings should really enhance the HUO gameplay experience. its been a long time coming. if done right, players will have more options and flexibility to customize each and every game they play.

while it appears deeproot has been too ambitious in their desire to improve/innovate, should they succeed in perfecting all the aspects of their framework, then it will just be a matter of making games for it. the current situation, while problematic, should be looked upon as getting the 'platform' working first, then worrying about the games second. should it have been ready to go by now? of course. but it is what it is.

as far as the upcoming themes that were bandied about, remember it didnt take much for archer to become IMDN or an incarnation of TMNT become AIQ. any one of deeproots original themes could become a licensed property overnight. if their layouts are good shooters, the package they are attempting to build around them doesnt appear to be all that bad.

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