(Topic ID: 203700)

deeproot Pinball thread


By pin2d

2 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

9 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #111 Firsthand information from the Magic Girl programmer. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #3026 RAZA promotional video Posted by vireland (7 months ago)

Post #5771 First RAZA gameplay video Posted by ZMeny (21 days ago)

Post #5874 RAZA video with more audible game sounds Posted by zaphX (20 days ago)

Post #5926 First RAZA video with successful ramp completion Posted by zaphX (20 days ago)

Post #5967 Another RAZA gameplay video Posted by flynnibus (20 days ago)

Post #6050 Closeup pictures of key playfield features Posted by Potatoloco (19 days ago)

Post #6133 Video of display animations Posted by LateCenturyMods (18 days ago)

Post #6329 Summary of Robert Mueller's interview Posted by jeffspinballpalace (16 days ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#84 2 years ago

An interesting point to note--anyone who was in on the lawsuit against JPOP gets nothing.

Deeproot does sound arrogant and spends a fair amount of time trying to place blame everywhere.

Did they not realize they could have avoided the whole thing by not associating with JPOP at all?

#91 2 years ago

The more I think about it, the more I'm dumbfounded that these guys wanted to work with and associate with JPOP.

Personally, I have 3-4 game designs sketched out. I'm sure most enthusiasts have doodled some design of their own. It's not that hard to find someone with ideas. If anyone wanders into the homebrew forums here or on other pinball sites, there is a remarkable abundance of talent and interesting designs.

Deeproot could have easily avoided all the unnecessary baggage that came with JPOP. Yet the minute they discovered what a hot potato he was, they doubled down?

And then left the victims who decided to do something about their predicament completely out in the cold?

I'm certainly not getting a warm fuzzy feeling from these guys.

#95 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

If you get the rights to this work by hiring Jpop for the price of his baggage, I see why these folks are interested.

He's so completely toxic in the pinball world, he's radioactive. It's a PR nightmare. For a company just looking to start out in the industry, it's a very foolish thing to do--to take on the debt of zidware and the toxic reputation of JPOP.

Two other companies failed to complete JPOP's games before deeproot. (Granted, though American Pinball did managed to stumble out with a barely functional MG)

Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

How many games does Jpop really "Owe" anyone? 100?

500+?

Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

Maybe $300,000 is a good deal to have 3 games designed and engineered?

The games are half baked and nowhere near being a real, complete, fully-featured machine. None of them were finished--they were just some initial concepts for the most part.

Ideas are plentiful. You can go to just about anyone else and buy their idea for a lot less than the cost and PR mess that JPOP brings. But, we all know JPOP can talk a good talk, and has been able to hoodwink quite a lot of people. It's astounding that it continues to happen.

1 month later
12
#322 1 year ago

All I see is a bunch of hot air so far.

If and when they have a flipping prototype, then I *might* start to take them a little bit more seriously.

I think we've been through the roller coaster ride with new manufacturers enough times now to be able to meet stuff like this with a healthy dose of skepticism.

#324 1 year ago
Quoted from Ericc123:

ForceFlow there isn’t going to be a prototype lol. Prototypes are for the rest of the looser companies.

10 months later
#1936 1 year ago
Quoted from gweempose:

"We are spending over $750k a month now on this project ..."
Yikes!!!

Personally, I would stop noodling around, focus on just *one* product, and get that product out the door just to get some income rolling in. It doesn't even have to be a pin--maybe parts, PCBs, mods, decorations, bobbleheads--whatever.

At the rate the company is hemorrhaging money, it would take years to earn back just enough to break even, if at all.

I'm seeing some of the same mistakes being repeated as with the other companies that have collapsed. But, I don't have any money down on the venture, so they can do whatever they want. If they succeed, great. If they collapse, that'll be unfortunate. All the boastful statements and secrecy aren't enough to get me to care too much about what they might be working on.

#1945 1 year ago
Quoted from 2pupPinz:

Go big or go home

Start small and within your means, and grow over time and to meet customer demand.

4 months later
#3140 7 months ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I’ve been trying to collect my thoughts about the Jpop hate in this thread. For me, I’m mostly over it and I have better reasons than most to be angry. I’m continuing along with my lawsuit against the man and I do seek justice. But at this point I’m weary of my posturing in the past and I’m especially tired of these useless, drive-by, Pinside out bursts of hate. Example, the non-sequitur comment a few pages back about Deeproot needing to fire Jpop.
One of the reason I mention this is because I sense an evolution of improving attitudes here towards Jpop. It seems to me that more and more people are now speaking up in supporting John. And I get it, as I see reasons to support him and Deeproot too.
Anyway, I find the recent attitude change here interesting from where we began long ago, along with my own evolution.
Whether I collect my judgment against Jpop in time or not, I intend to purchase a RAZA or other Deeproot machine, pending inspection and production of course. - Do as you like but those are my thoughts.

Quoted from doghouse:

Hear, hear. I'm happy to hear someone articulate this. I too was a victim of JPop like many others, and I felt especially stung after feeling like we had at least a passing friendship that developed over several years. I visited with John at his shop, took him out for dinner, corresponded with him, talked with him on the phone, helped on a few issues he had early on by making suggestions which I believe he used. And I sent him lots of money like others.
After it was obvious that John was failing, I offered more help and was ignored, and finally shut down, ghosted. Never heard a word from him after that. Always expected he would re-emerge and apologize to some of us. But to the best of my knowledge, he never has apologized to anyone he burned.
And I was very pissed-off at John, and at losing the money. But with the promise of Deeproot and their pledge to make things right, I feel like any lingering hatred of John is now misplaced. Calls to fire him, or to not buy any of Deeproot's games because of John's participation seem ridiculous to me. John was surely incompetent and dishonest, but ultimately a victim of his own narcissism. More of a fool than a crook. And this is a common story in business. I've seen it a dozen times in my own career. Those like us who trust early and lay down money behind that trust in anticipation of a great innovative product often get burned.
Harboring hatred for John or Deeproot isn't going to help (or hurt) anything or anyone. It's a waste of effort. The people that hate Deeproot because John works for them are very naive. Do they also hate and/or avoid buying products from other (non-pinball) companies that knowingly hire dishonest people? Good luck with that. I'm just looking forward to getting my RAZA as promised by Robert, and letting my last bit of disgust for Jpop get lost in my enjoyment of the game.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

I think people forget all the things he did.. he'd make statements like "check your ego at the door", yet he would comment on homebrew games not having painted vent grills even though his shooter rod didn't line up with the ball (or have a groove).
"Starting a pinball is easy, but finishing it is hard" - Yes you've proven that point.
He'd ask for volunteer help, and then either ignore that help or cop an attitude.
It wasn't that he failed to build a complete working pinball, he failed at three (yet took money on all three even though he knew he could never deliver the 1st without someone bailing him out), and it still didn't function because of failed mechs and failure to pay the programmer working on his game.
He never apologized to the buyers, instead he sued them.
I have no doubts John has some imagination, but I fail to see anyone supporting him unless they don't know his history.

Isn't JPop still suing (or countersuing?) a selection of preorder customers on the premise that they caused damage to zidware in some way by exposing what was happening?

1 month later
15
#3513 6 months ago

As they say in the movie business; show--don't tell.

Imagine if all on-screen special effects were simply scenes of Gilbert Gottfried describing what was happening.

Yeah, it might be mildly entertaining at first, but it gets old after a while.

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